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Before the dawn of time, Order and Chaos existed within an extradimensional entity known as the One. He created twin astral beings to reign over the cosmos: Primus and Unicron. Their nature differed, as Primus's lifeforce (aka the Allspark) was a multiversal singularity; existing across all Transformers realities at once (See Animated and IDW continuity sections below for possible exceptions to this.), whereas Unicron existed in only one dimension at a time but could travel relatively freely between them. Primus was the Lord of Light and Order, and Unicron, the Lord of Darkness and Chaos. Unicron sought to devour everything that exists and become one with the Void at the end of all things.
(page 51)Unicron would return again and again, and could be temporarily defeated but never totally destroyed. Each time Unicron replenished itself, its evil grew and it adapted its body into new and different configurations. Its vast heavily shielded Spark Core was resistant even to Matrix energy allowing it to rebuild by absorbing other sparks or pure Energon.
i_amtrunks wrote:I know this is only a Wikia page, and that it may not be 100% accurate, but it is accurate enough:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Primus
and from above link:Before the dawn of time, Order and Chaos existed within an extradimensional entity known as the One. He created twin astral beings to reign over the cosmos: Primus and Unicron. Their nature differed, as Primus's lifeforce (aka the Allspark) was a multiversal singularity; existing across all Transformers realities at once (See Animated and IDW continuity sections below for possible exceptions to this.), whereas Unicron existed in only one dimension at a time but could travel relatively freely between them. Primus was the Lord of Light and Order, and Unicron, the Lord of Darkness and Chaos. Unicron sought to devour everything that exists and become one with the Void at the end of all things.
I believe that quote comes from the DK Ultimate Guide.
That is where it is written.
The Big Bang
Having witnessed the birth of our Universe, an extradimensional entitiy known as The One grew curious and created twin heralds, Unicron and Primus. But Unicron was an imperfet being, a chaotic force that ultimately began to ravage the fledgling Universe. Unicron took on two distinct forms, one mental (projected in the Astral plane), and one physical (a metal planetoid). —Transformers: the Ultimnate Guide page 50.
Primus
Before the dawn of time, Order and Chaos existed in perfect harmony within a self-contained entity called The One. Eager to explore the infant Universe, The One created Unicron, and then subdivided its creation into two. That second being was Primus. Both heralds spread their entirety across new planets throughout many realities, seeding the future. But as Primus gained sentience, he realized that Unicron had become a force for Chaos, destroying all they had created. Wise and in touch with all living things, Primusbecame the Champion of Order, vowing to safeguard the Universe.
Robot Mode Assuming the role of Protector of the Universe, Primus used the enrgy The One had given him to attack Unicron directly, the former twin forces clashing explosively and repeatedly. Like Unicron, Primus posesses two modes (planet and robot), but rarely assumed his robot mode, wishing rather to be part of the Universe on a planetary level it is ebbs and flows. Instead, Primus passed his transformation abilities on to the beings he created: The TRANSFORMERS.—Transformers: The Ultimate Guide page 53.
Eradicator wrote:So, there is a Primus in one universe, that means there are alternates of his BODIES in other universes, and so with Unicron? And when they are defeated, their sparks are flund t another asteroid in another universe?
Not wuite. It doesn't wander the multiverse. IT links the multiverse together with him residing in all realities simultaneously. He exists both outside of reality as well as within all of them together at once. Kind of like God, but not quite because Primus has a physical form, not just a spiritual one.Eradicator wrote:So, Primus' (don't take this literally) 'essence, or spark can wonder the multiverse and 'power' each Cybertron?'
PrimeNumber wrote:This doesn't make any sense to me, I don't mind the multiverse thing, but how can they be interconnected by things that don't exist in all of them? Primus and the Original 13 don't exist in every Transformers universe. I only really know the original series, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Cybertron ... but the fact is, I only know that the original 13 and Primus are only mentioned in Cybertron. I haven't seen RiD, Armada, or Energon (if anyone knows where I can find DVDs of these, please pass them on), but I don't see how it could be a connected multiverse, when the connection pieces don't exist.
PrimeNumber wrote:This doesn't make any sense to me, I don't mind the multiverse thing, but how can they be interconnected by things that don't exist in all of them? Primus and the Original 13 don't exist in every Transformers universe. I only really know the original series, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Cybertron ... but the fact is, I only know that the original 13 and Primus are only mentioned in Cybertron. I haven't seen RiD, Armada, or Energon (if anyone knows where I can find DVDs of these, please pass them on), but I don't see how it could be a connected multiverse, when the connection pieces don't exist.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Just because we didnt see them does not mean that they didnt exist.The ideas for the 13 and the orgin for Primus go back to the G1 marvel comic book......although many of the fine details have changed over the years.....some for the better some not.....reguardless Hasbro has decided in their great wisdom to inter connect all the universe into 1 big multiverse.Its like a ttree with many branches.
OmegaMaximus wrote:Does anyone know the need for the Multiverse (other than making some fanboys giggle with excitement)? What is really the benefit of having the characters able to jump from universe to universe? Wouldn't it just get annoying/confusing if you were doing something and then suddenly you were pulled through a blackhole to do something else? I'm not arguing the multiverse, just asking why do it?Just because we didnt see them does not mean that they didnt exist.The ideas for the 13 and the orgin for Primus go back to the G1 marvel comic book......although many of the fine details have changed over the years.....some for the better some not.....reguardless Hasbro has decided in their great wisdom to inter connect all the universe into 1 big multiverse.Its like a ttree with many branches.
You and PrimeNumber are right. In the comics, Primus and the original 12 are there - but in the cartoons, Cybertron is a planet converted to a factory by the Quints. Now how could Primus be the planet/god that creates the transformers if A. he didn't create them and B. at the end of Beast Machines the planet is converted BACK it's organic (be it techno-organic) roots.
Now again, if Hasbro wants to say it's a multiverse ... sure go ahead, I personally will never accept that, because it was never intended to be that - and don't even try and argue that they did, because I'm pretty positive that no writer from G1 ever sat down and said "You know, in the future, we should have a universe with transformers and Cyber Keys." Just didn't happen.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
IceWilly wrote:I want to strangle the OP. You are saying that a FICTIONAL comic, that has been remade into many different comics, by many different people/companies, converted into MANY different cartoons translated in MANY different languages is supposedly to magically all make sense without any gaps in explanation?
Are you kidding? Come on man, seriously?
Give it a rest, every single writer for every comic and TV show to date has had to look back at past series and determine THEIR own interpretation and then go from the there writing a story. Maybe they believe Unicron and Primus are all present in many different universes, maybe they believe that when Unicron died in the movie that was it, maybe their show is based before the movie in another universe. There is simply no right and wrong way.
In the beginning of transformers back in the 80's, no one sat down and wrote a massive book about what happened when and who did what and who died, otherwise you would know the whole story years ago and our beloved hobby would be dead. It's a piece of art that is evolving over time, if you spent all day racking your mind to find an answer that you can accept for every open ended question you are bound to be all over forums whining about it, and people will only offer so much information on their OPINIONS until you reject it all as unsuitable for you they give up.
Do I know for sure what the deal is with Primus and Unicron? No, but i have some ideas I like to think are the case. But in the end its entertainment, so you either let yourself be entertained, or you go on trying to pin down every fact and just get annoyed. Your call, but do not expect to find a DEFINITIVE answer to a question that does not have an expert or creator that defined it in the first place.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Does anyone know the need for the Multiverse (other than making some fanboys giggle with excitement)? What is really the benefit of having the characters able to jump from universe to universe? Wouldn't it just get annoying/confusing if you were doing something and then suddenly you were pulled through a blackhole to do something else? I'm not arguing the multiverse, just asking why do it?
i_amtrunks wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What is a OP?
Original Poster.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Night Striker wrote:Does anyone know the need for the Multiverse (other than making some fanboys giggle with excitement)? What is really the benefit of having the characters able to jump from universe to universe? Wouldn't it just get annoying/confusing if you were doing something and then suddenly you were pulled through a blackhole to do something else? I'm not arguing the multiverse, just asking why do it?
This is something that Marvel Comics, and DC Comics have struggled with for years! DC went as far as creating a Crisis back in the 80s to shrink it's world down, only to have an Infinate Crisis to recreate it's mulitverse.
What's the need for it. When you have so many writers, with so many ritch ideas you don't want to go destroying or loosing them. The benifits come from being able for writers to add more layers and depth onto existing characters rather then create from scratch a new character that has to fill a role that another character could easily have. Actually that sort of happened to Primal, but anyway. Would it get annoying, if done wrong, absolutely yes. But when done correctly a multiverse can give a lot more to the fans then you may think.
Fans of RID can enjoy their world while the G1s follow theres...and the AEC fans get their little jollys with the Unicron Trilogy. All things considered I'd rather play in a multiverse where, as a writer I can expand on different characters then on a single verse where you can come up short at times for fans.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
IceWilly wrote:I want to strangle the OP. You are saying that a FICTIONAL comic, that has been remade into many different comics, by many different people/companies, converted into MANY different cartoons translated in MANY different languages is supposedly to magically all make sense without any gaps in explanation?
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Night Striker wrote:Does anyone know the need for the Multiverse (other than making some fanboys giggle with excitement)? What is really the benefit of having the characters able to jump from universe to universe? Wouldn't it just get annoying/confusing if you were doing something and then suddenly you were pulled through a blackhole to do something else? I'm not arguing the multiverse, just asking why do it?
This is something that Marvel Comics, and DC Comics have struggled with for years! DC went as far as creating a Crisis back in the 80s to shrink it's world down, only to have an Infinate Crisis to recreate it's mulitverse.
What's the need for it. When you have so many writers, with so many ritch ideas you don't want to go destroying or loosing them. The benifits come from being able for writers to add more layers and depth onto existing characters rather then create from scratch a new character that has to fill a role that another character could easily have. Actually that sort of happened to Primal, but anyway. Would it get annoying, if done wrong, absolutely yes. But when done correctly a multiverse can give a lot more to the fans then you may think.
Fans of RID can enjoy their world while the G1s follow theres...and the AEC fans get their little jollys with the Unicron Trilogy. All things considered I'd rather play in a multiverse where, as a writer I can expand on different characters then on a single verse where you can come up short at times for fans.
You know I seen many a writter try to express the need for a multiverse But I have never seen it explained so perfectly
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