The Energon Pub

[Damolisher]

And even if Dreamwave had made changes, it wouldn't matter. Dreamwave has their OWN continuity. They DON'T retcon anything else.

[Tramp]

And even if Dreamwave had made changes, it wouldn't matter. Dreamwave has their OWN continuity. They DON'T retcon anything else.

No, but Hasbro did. The DW continuity is supposed to be the main True history. They borrowed from Marvel and the cartoon and the toys, as well as Universe to create it and unify everything into one main continuity. That is what the Ultimate Guide put forth. It uses the Marvel history for Fort Max and the Headmasters because DW didn't really change any of it. DW and the Ultimate Guide added some details that were omitted, from Marvel's Headmasters story, but it doesn't contradict it at all. DW never told the stroy of the Headmasters, thus there was nothing for the Ultimate Guide to change.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Tramp, You say that The Guide didnt change Marvels history all that much when it came to head masters/targetmasters but look at these 2 pic.





the guide has it that the con's came up with the idea for Targetmasters but the Marvel has the Bot's with them first and the con's stealing the idea.
To me thats a major difference.How bout anyone else ?

[Tramp]

Actually, there is no contradiction. The marvel comic says nothing about the Autobots creating the Targetmasters first. Zarak stole the Headmaster plans and used them to adapt them to the Targetmaster system already developed long ago but using Nebulans instead of robots. The excerpt from the Marvel comcis there does not specifiy what "Master" process Zarak stole. You are simply assuming that it was the Targetmaster process.

[Damolisher]

And Tramp, THIS is why people lose their cool with you. You change your mind, you contradict yourself, and you try to find any little loophole you can to argue with people when you know full well what they're talking about.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Actually, there is no contradiction. The marvel comic says nothing about the Autobots creating the Targetmasters first. Zarak stole the Headmaster plans and used them to adapt them to the Targetmaster system already developed long ago but using Nebulans instead of robots. The excerpt from the Marvel comcis there does not specifiy what "Master" process Zarak stole. You are simply assuming that it was the Targetmaster process.

have you read the book?????the autobot targetmasters show up on page 10 but the con targetmasters show up on page 15

witch means the bots created them first also we see the beginings of them refining the bots webons in issue 3 but the cons dont do it till issur 4.
That means it contradick the guide the bots had targetmasters first.
they ether re-wrote marvel history or made part of marvel history the true history the guide is sopouse to be or they made an error witch puts the whole book into question

[Damolisher]

I take the whole book as bunk. I just see it as an interesting read and an awesome way to show off the Dreamwave Artists' artwork, but the whole bullshit about Primus and Unicron being the same in every continuity and being indestructable when they aren't the same and clearly are destructable shows the book ain't worth a hill of beans.

[Auto Bot]

Is Primus equal to Cybertron? Can the Cybertron planet transform?

[Tramp]

Is Primus equal to Cybertron? Can the Cybertron planet transform?

Yes, Primus is Cybertron, and yes, Cybertron can trasnform, but Primus rarely if ever does. Don Figueroa came up with a concept design for Primus' robot mode printed in War Within as one of his unused concept sketches, and it is printed in the Ultimate Guide. The first time we see Primus transform is in Cybertron.

[Primus C-00]

Is Primus equal to Cybertron? Can the Cybertron planet transform?

Yes, Primus is Cybertron, and yes, Cybertron can trasnform, but Primus rarely if ever does. Don Figueroa came up with a concept design for Primus' robot mode printed in War Within as one of his unused concept sketches, and it is printed in the Ultimate Guide. The first time we see Primus transform is in Cybertron.

Rumour has it that the original draft of Transformers the movie, saw Hot Rod and the like chasing down Optimus Prime's body so that it and the Matrix could be plugged into Cybertron's core allowing Primus to fight Unicron.

No offence to the original version, but WOW!

[Tramp]

Interesting rumor, but I doubt it's true. It would have been an intersting fight though.

[Auto Bot]

Is Primus equal to Cybertron? Can the Cybertron planet transform?

Yes, Primus is Cybertron, and yes, Cybertron can trasnform, but Primus rarely if ever does. Don Figueroa came up with a concept design for Primus' robot mode printed in War Within as one of his unused concept sketches, and it is printed in the Ultimate Guide. The first time we see Primus transform is in Cybertron.

Rumour has it that the original draft of Transformers the movie, saw Hot Rod and the like chasing down Optimus Prime's body so that it and the Matrix could be plugged into Cybertron's core allowing Primus to fight Unicron.

No offence to the original version, but WOW!

Yeah. It would have been awesome to see Primus and Unicron do a one on one.

Makes sense too. Everything in Cybertron transforms into something. Even the planet itself do!

[Uniprimus]

Listen, So Primus exists in all CYbertrons (how?) through the allspark, (can someone clarify on what the allspark is?), and Unicron exista as one whole being in the multiverse, right?

BTW, are those pics you guys keep coming up with from the Transformers Ultimate Guide?

[Auto Bot]

In Bay's Movie, with the Allspark and all, there's probably no Primus or Unicron.

So it's a different line of story.

Unless, transforming planets suddenly got into TF3 or TF4.

Then, we can try to figure out this thing.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Listen, So Primus exists in all CYbertrons (how?) through the allspark, (can someone clarify on what the allspark is?), and Unicron exista as one whole being in the multiverse, right?

BTW, are those pics you guys keep coming up with from the Transformers Ultimate Guide?

some are from the guide others were from ether marvels comic's or from the dreamwave profile books

[Tramp]

Listen, So Primus exists in all CYbertrons (how?) through the allspark, (can someone clarify on what the allspark is?), and Unicron exista as one whole being in the multiverse, right?

BTW, are those pics you guys keep coming up with from the Transformers Ultimate Guide?

Some of them were from the Ultimate Guide, others were from the various issues of Mor than Meets the Eye by DW.

As for the Allspark, That is the very spark of Primus himself, and the true source of all sparks. Every Cybertronian's spark is a piece of Primus' own spark.

[Uniprimus]

Ok, I just picked up the Transformers Ultimate Guide updated version from B&N. It is one AWSOME book. The artwork s superb, IMO.

I read the Prmus and Unicron origins, and my own version is gonna go like this:

Before the dawn of time, order and chaod perfectly existed in an extradimensional entity known as the One (I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?). He was curious at the sigt of the new multiverse, and so created twin heralds to rule: Primus and Unicron. From the Astral Plane (what is this?), Primus led his brother inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?). In time, they shaped their prisons into metal planets, able to transform back into resemblances from their forms in the 'astral plane'. They each created bodies (planets) for themselves in each universe. Primus created duplicated of his spark, and placed them in each body across the universe. Unicron did not. He kept his own spark, but if he was destroyed, his spark would be flung to another body he created in another universe.'

Probably gonna edit this based upon if this would make sense in canon material. I really hated the idea of the 'One' creating Unicron then creating Primus from him. Wouldn't that mean Primus would be evil, too? So wuld this fit with canon material?

[Primus C-00]

Listen, So Primus exists in all CYbertrons (how?) through the allspark, (can someone clarify on what the allspark is?), and Unicron exista as one whole being in the multiverse, right?

BTW, are those pics you guys keep coming up with from the Transformers Ultimate Guide?

*bangs head repeatedly*



You know you can use search engines and put in these phrases that trouble you. The largest resource of information to date is designed to do that.

[Primus C-00]

Ok, I just picked up the Transformers Ultimate Guide updated version from B&N. It is one AWSOME book. The artwork s superb, IMO.

I read the Primus and Unicron origins, and my own version is gonna go like this:

Before the dawn of time, order and chaod perfectly existed in an extradimensional entity known as the One (I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?). He was curious at the sigt of the new multiverse, and so created twin heralds to rule: Primus and Unicron. From the Astral Plane (what is this?), Primus led his brother inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?). In time, they shaped their prisons into metal planets, able to transform back into resemblances from their forms in the 'astral plane'. They each created bodies (planets) for themselves in each universe. Primus created duplicated of his spark, and placed them in each body across the universe. Unicron did not. He kept his own spark, but if he was destroyed, his spark would be flung to another body he created in another universe.'

Probably gonna edit this based upon if this would make sense in canon material. I really hated the idea of the 'One' creating Unicron then creating Primus from him. Wouldn't that mean Primus would be evil, too? So wuld this fit with canon material?

The One is a curious amalgamation of Chaos and Light to appease monotheists, godniks and jebus freaks and anyone else offended by Manichean duality. In my humble opinion The One is just a ruse to try to dupe Primus and make Unicron feel better.

Before that great ret-con there were others, and a time wherein which Elder (Chaos) Gods ruled and a being so big he sat outside time. but that reeks of Lovecraft and the relgious right don't like that like they don't like heavy metal, roleplay games and smut.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Gods

Mmm hmm.

Astral plane:

Some equivalent concepts to the astral plane in various esoteric teachings are the Barzakh or Imaginal or Inter-world in Islamic Esotericism (Ishraqism, Sufism, etc), the World of Asiyah in Lurianic Kabbalah (although this sometimes includes the physical plane as well), or Yetzirah in some interpretations of Hermetic Kabbalah, the "spirit world" in Spiritualism, the "Nervous" State in Max Theon's teachings, and the "Vital" World in the philosophy of Sri Aurobindo and Mirra Alfassa.

In his book Autobiography of a Yogi, Sri Sri Paramhansa Yogananda characterizes the difference between the physical, astral, and causal planes, as per traditional Hindu philosophy. In this conception, when one dies the soul moves to the astral plane. There the result of past actions or karma is reaped.

The term "astral plane" has also more recently come to mean a plane of existence where otherkin believe their souls reside.

The word "astral" (like celestial) means of or like the stars and is used in reference to the astral plane because astral matter does not require a light source to make it visible -astral matter gives off its own light, like stars do.

Metal:

metal (sometimes referred to simply as metal) is a genre of rock music that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s.[1] With roots in blues-rock and psychedelic rock, the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, heavy, guitar-and-drums-centered sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion and fast guitar solos. The All Music Guide states that "of all rock & roll's myriad forms, heavy metal is the most extreme in terms of volume, machismo, and theatricality."

Thus ends this lesson of Primus.

[Malicron]

Too...much...conflicting...INFO!!!

[Uniprimus]

Ok, I just picked up the Transformers Ultimate Guide updated version from B&N. It is one AWSOME book. The artwork s superb, IMO.

I read the Primus and Unicron origins, and my own version is gonna go like this:

Before the dawn of time, order and chaod perfectly existed in an extradimensional entity known as the One (I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?). He was curious at the sigt of the new multiverse, and so created twin heralds to rule: Primus and Unicron. From the Astral Plane (what is this?), Primus led his brother inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?). In time, they shaped their prisons into metal planets, able to transform back into resemblances from their forms in the 'astral plane'. They each created bodies (planets) for themselves in each universe. Primus created duplicated of his spark, and placed them in each body across the universe. Unicron did not. He kept his own spark, but if he was destroyed, his spark would be flung to another body he created in another universe.'

Probably gonna edit this based upon if this would make sense in canon material. I really hated the idea of the 'One' creating Unicron then creating Primus from him. Wouldn't that mean Primus would be evil, too? So wuld this fit with canon material?

The One is a curious amalgamation of Chaos and Light to appease monotheists, godniks and jebus freaks and anyone else offended by Manichean duality. In my humble opinion The One is just a ruse to try to dupe Primus and make Unicron feel better.

Before that great ret-con there were others, and a time wherein which Elder (Chaos) Gods ruled and a being so big he sat outside time. but that reeks of Lovecraft and the relgious right don't like that like they don't like heavy metal, roleplay games and smut.

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Gods

Mmm hmm.

Astral plane:

Some equivalent concepts to the astral plane in various esoteric teachings are the Barzakh or Imaginal or Inter-world in Islamic Esotericism (Ishraqism, Sufism, etc), the World of Asiyah in Lurianic Kabbalah (although this sometimes includes the physical plane as well), or Yetzirah in some interpretations of Hermetic Kabbalah, the "spirit world" in Spiritualism, the "Nervous" State in Max Theon's teachings, and the "Vital" World in the philosophy of Sri Aurobindo and Mirra Alfassa.

In his book Autobiography of a Yogi, Sri Sri Paramhansa Yogananda characterizes the difference between the physical, astral, and causal planes, as per traditional Hindu philosophy. In this conception, when one dies the soul moves to the astral plane. There the result of past actions or karma is reaped.

The term "astral plane" has also more recently come to mean a plane of existence where otherkin believe their souls reside.

The word "astral" (like celestial) means of or like the stars and is used in reference to the astral plane because astral matter does not require a light source to make it visible -astral matter gives off its own light, like stars do.

Metal:

metal (sometimes referred to simply as metal) is a genre of rock music that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s.[1] With roots in blues-rock and psychedelic rock, the bands that created heavy metal developed a thick, heavy, guitar-and-drums-centered sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion and fast guitar solos. The All Music Guide states that "of all rock & roll's myriad forms, heavy metal is the most extreme in terms of volume, machismo, and theatricality."

Thus ends this lesson of Primus.

Why do you keep acting like I am stupid?

I know the definition of metal, just asteroids usually are not metal.

+, I did not understand that Astral Plane definition AT ALL. Neither did I your The One definition.

[Tramp]

Ok, I just picked up the Transformers Ultimate Guide updated version from B&N. It is one AWSOME book. The artwork s superb, IMO.

I read the Prmus and Unicron origins, and my own version is gonna go like this:

Before the dawn of time, order and chaod perfectly existed in an extradimensional entity known as the One (I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?). He was curious at the sigt of the new multiverse, and so created twin heralds to rule: Primus and Unicron. From the Astral Plane (what is this?), Primus led his brother inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?). In time, they shaped their prisons into metal planets, able to transform back into resemblances from their forms in the 'astral plane'. They each created bodies (planets) for themselves in each universe. Primus created duplicated of his spark, and placed them in each body across the universe. Unicron did not. He kept his own spark, but if he was destroyed, his spark would be flung to another body he created in another universe.'

Probably gonna edit this based upon if this would make sense in canon material. I really hated the idea of the 'One' creating Unicron then creating Primus from him. Wouldn't that mean Primus would be evil, too? So wuld this fit with canon material?

No, because Unicron didn't become the evil monster until well after the split The original creation was a balance between Order and Chaos. When it was split into Unicron and Primus, One embodied Order (Primus), and the other Chaos (Unicron). It was only a matter of time before that chaos manifested itself, and Unicron became chaos and destruction personified.

Secondly, Primus didn't duplicate his spark for each reality. It is one Spark; one being connected throughout all realities via the Astral Plane

[i_amtrunks]

Too...much...conflicting...INFO!!!

Guess thats what happens when you have a dozen different writers at a dozen different times interpreting their own versions of back-story and history.

It would be easiest to explain the history of Primus and Unicron in relation to each individual series, but some people refuse to let that be, and insist that all series should be able to be tied in together, making it far too mushy and complicated.

[Tramp]

Too...much...conflicting...INFO!!!

Guess thats what happens when you have a dozen different writers at a dozen different times interpreting their own versions of back-story and history.

It would be easiest to explain the history of Primus and Unicron in relation to each individual series, but some people refuse to let that be, and insist that all series should be able to be tied in together, making it far too mushy and complicated.

Well, it was Hasbro that decided to tie Unicron and Primus as multiversal beings, with Primus existing in all realties at once and Unicron travelling between them as he consumes each. So blaim them.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Too...much...conflicting...INFO!!!

Guess thats what happens when you have a dozen different writers at a dozen different times interpreting their own versions of back-story and history.

It would be easiest to explain the history of Primus and Unicron in relation to each individual series, but some people refuse to let that be, and insist that all series should be able to be tied in together, making it far too mushy and complicated.

Well, it was Hasbro that decided to tie Unicron and Primus as multiversal beings, with Primus existing in all realties at once and Unicron travelling between them as he consumes each. So blaim them.

No disrespect Tramp but that the smartest thing I have read on this tread.....and it took 10 pages