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THE SPAM THREAD

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

Postby Tramp » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:25 pm

ROFLMAO :)) :))

What can I say, I only speak the truth.
Tramp

Postby Uniprimus » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:34 pm

I don't like the Primus being separated from Primus, so I am fanwanking it out of existance.

I still don't understand the whole Astral Plane thing...
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Postby Tramp » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:44 pm

Eradicator wrote:I don't like the Primus being separated from Primus, so I am fanwanking it out of existance.

I still don't understand the whole Astral Plane thing...


The Astral Plane is the plane of mind and spirit, a mental plane, not a physical one. Thus, distance and space are irrelevant. You have heard of astral projection and astral forms? Those are mental and spiritiual, That is the Astral plane. That is the true home of Primus and Unicron. Both exist in both the physical plane and astral plane. It is in the physical plane that Primus exists in multiple realities at once and Unicron exists in one at a time. It is through the Astral Plane that they are connected to these realities.
Tramp

Postby Night Striker » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:47 pm

This is why I so like the cartoon history. None of this insanity about which gods created whom.

Okay to answer questions...

Before the dawn of time, order and chaod perfectly existed in an extradimensional entity known as the One (I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?). He was curious at the sigt of the new multiverse, and so created twin heralds to rule: Primus and Unicron. From the Astral Plane (what is this?), Primus led his brother inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?). In time, they shaped their prisons into metal planets, able to transform back into resemblances from their forms in the 'astral plane'. They each created bodies (planets) for themselves in each universe. Primus created duplicated of his spark, and placed them in each body across the universe. Unicron did not. He kept his own spark, but if he was destroyed, his spark would be flung to another body he created in another universe.'


(I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?)

The one in short is basically where life and the universe spun from, at least regarding Primus and Unicron. Think of, well God. It's an omnipotent being with powers we know nothing about, neither do the transformers. As of this time it's never been fully examined by Any known writer.

From the Astral Plane (what is this?)

The Astral plane is in a sense limbo. A place where the soul or spark can reside in. It's a realm that only the spirits of a being can go to. An Astral being is usually one made like a ghost. I'm sure you've seen X-men comics. I think a few can do that trick.

inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?).

Metal astroids are astroids with metal compounds. Basically it' not totally metal, just a majority of it is the metalic compound.

Of course the book ignores the whole thing of Primacron and his assistant. Which really sucks...

My own theory goes like this.

Long ago there was a group of beings that had become a bit too intellegent for their own sake. They decided to try to capture their god, a being called the One. However their actions split the One into two halves, creating the one's two children or hearlds: Unicron -the essence of Chaos and darkness, and Primus -the essence of Light and order. These were kept housed in different temples until the beings decided to capture the gods. So they had Primacron, one of their beings, create a shell to house the god of darkness. This they offically called Unicron, the one in Time. Unicron rebeled and attacked the people, destoying them, but before he could kill Primacron...his robotic assistant, who had over time though expouser to the powers of Unicron and Primus gained sentience, sacraficed his life to save Primacron.

In doing so the robot's spark came apart. Part of the spark became the matrix, orginally held by Primacron inside a small chamber. The other part became the Oracle (No realtion to Beast Machines) who helped fill the matrix with wisdom. Unicron took off into the universe to gordge himself on planets. Primacron felt that he had to stop this creature, so he created a new body, with droids helping him, and placed Primus spark in there. But unlike Unicron who saw the world as his own play thing, Primus sought to find order.

Finding his brother the two duked it out causing mass destruction. Which fed Unicron. It was only when Primus realized that he would have to keep his brother in a dorment state that he placed some of his spark in the Matrix, and then took his brother to the astral plane. In here he was able to place Unicron to sleep and then he too took rest converting his body, like Unicrons, into a planet. From here he created the first transformers whom he used to keep himself maintained.

In time the beings Unicron destroyed became a speicies known as the Vok, since they migrated to a dimension that existed between space. Time was different here, and it was from here that they continued to experiment, with no fear of their twin gods. These beings created their own creatures called the Quintessons. However these creatures did not live up to what the Vok wanted, and they abandoned the Quints to space. In doing so the Quints went around and harvested planets for their own use. Eventually they discoverd Cybertron, and found a world run by Drones.

Here they easily subjected the drones to slavery, having them build factories and plugging a computer known as Vector Sigma into the core of the planet. This core was the heart of Primus, and linked VS to the Allspark (or rather Primus own spark as it was) allowing the computer to gain its own sentience. The drones had been rebuilt as two different factions by the Quintessons. Consumer goods (later Autobots) and War Machines (Later Decepticons) which were sold to other species. Sigma feeling for it's creations broke the lock it had placed on the drones minds giving them the ablity to once more have free will. To try to gain power over the drones the Quintes built the dark guardian robots.

In time to come the guardian robots came under the commands of the drones who eventually beat their masters, and thus laided the ground work for the two factions. Years later the Vok would rediscover the Transformers and find Earth through them....but that's a story for far later.
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Postby Night Striker » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:49 pm

Auto Bot wrote:
Primus C-00 wrote:
Tramp wrote:
Auto Bot wrote:Is Primus equal to Cybertron? Can the Cybertron planet transform?


Yes, Primus is Cybertron, and yes, Cybertron can trasnform, but Primus rarely if ever does. Don Figueroa came up with a concept design for Primus' robot mode printed in War Within as one of his unused concept sketches, and it is printed in the Ultimate Guide. The first time we see Primus transform is in Cybertron.


Rumour has it that the original draft of Transformers the movie, saw Hot Rod and the like chasing down Optimus Prime's body so that it and the Matrix could be plugged into Cybertron's core allowing Primus to fight Unicron.

No offence to the original version, but WOW!

:sad:


Yeah. It would have been awesome to see Primus and Unicron do a one on one.

Makes sense too. Everything in Cybertron transforms into something. Even the planet itself do!


Totally agree! That would have been awesome!
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:21 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
Weapon: Indepentently Targetable Particle Beam Cannons
Eradicator wrote:
Why do you keep acting like I am stupid?

I know the definition of metal, just asteroids usually are not metal.

+, I did not understand that Astral Plane definition AT ALL. Neither did I your The One definition.


The point is moot :P

We're on nearly twelves pages of this thread, and forgive the seeming generalisation but every time you post it is pretty much your first question only either worded differently or done in CAPS; which incidentally in board politeness is very rude.

People has posted answers or clues to answers and yet you seem to have ignored them. A prime example being if you followed the link posted after my definition of the One you would find further links explaining all the God like beings past and present.

I find it worrying and depressing that people seem to need everything spoon fed to them these days, as if entire generations are lacking the whimsy of independent creative thought.

Hands up though that may not have been the best definition of the astral plane so maybe this one is better.

[b]Astral Plane n : the word astral on its own means relating to, resembling or emanating from the stars. The astral plane however can be likened to the Akasha, namely a place where all the thoughts, memories, fantasies and dreams of everyone in the world exist. The astral plane is thought to be a fantastic place to travel in, with many different travelers, entities and levels to it. It is said to operate at a much higher frequency than the physical plane we inhabit.

It is thought that the etheric body, spirit or mind can travel on the astral plane which is said to appear more solid than the physical plane we all inhabit, this is because in order to travel it the etheric body has to be existing and operating at the same higher frequency. The astral plane is believed to be far more mutable than the physical and is said to be changed and altered simply by the power of thought.


8)
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Justicity » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:50 am

Primus C-00 wrote:
Eradicator wrote:
Why do you keep acting like I am stupid?

I know the definition of metal, just asteroids usually are not metal.

+, I did not understand that Astral Plane definition AT ALL. Neither did I your The One definition.


The point is moot :P

We're on nearly twelves pages of this thread, and forgive the seeming generalisation but every time you post it is pretty much your first question only either worded differently or done in CAPS; which incidentally in board politeness is very rude.

People has posted answers or clues to answers and yet you seem to have ignored them. A prime example being if you followed the link posted after my definition of the One you would find further links explaining all the God like beings past and present.

I find it worrying and depressing that people seem to need everything spoon fed to them these days, as if entire generations are lacking the whimsy of independent creative thought.

Hands up though that may not have been the best definition of the astral plane so maybe this one is better.


Here here!!! The younger generation wants everything spoon fed, it's terrible!!! I love working things out for myself, doing my own research, getting GOOGLE open & looking up something FOR MYSELF. Sadly I am one of the younger generation, but I like to think of myself as a classic, one with the old ways & spiritually a much older person :P and if that isn't a pile of bull**** I don't know what is 8)
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:26 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
Weapon: Indepentently Targetable Particle Beam Cannons
Eradicator wrote:I don't like the Primus being separated from Primus, so I am fanwanking it out of existance.


Que?

:???:
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:27 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
Weapon: Indepentently Targetable Particle Beam Cannons
Justicity wrote:Here here!!! The younger generation wants everything spoon fed, it's terrible!!! I love working things out for myself, doing my own research, getting GOOGLE open & looking up something FOR MYSELF. Sadly I am one of the younger generation, but I like to think of myself as a classic, one with the old ways & spiritually a much older person :P and if that isn't a pile of bull**** I don't know what is 8)


Awww, c'mere you turbo-runnin' young punk.

:D
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:48 am

Tramp wrote:
Eradicator wrote:I don't like the Primus being separated from Primus, so I am fanwanking it out of existance.

I still don't understand the whole Astral Plane thing...


The Astral Plane is the plane of mind and spirit, a mental plane, not a physical one. Thus, distance and space are irrelevant. You have heard of astral projection and astral forms? Those are mental and spiritiual, That is the Astral plane. That is the true home of Primus and Unicron. Both exist in both the physical plane and astral plane. It is in the physical plane that Primus exists in multiple realities at once and Unicron exists in one at a time. It is through the Astral Plane that they are connected to these realities.


So if it was in a mental place, in Primal Scream, how does Primus lead Unicron through a portal into lifeless asteroids? DOes he create a 'bridge' to the physial world, then their 'spirit' selves go into the asteroids?

So, then in the 'astral plane' is kinda ike their 'sparks' in the allspark?
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Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:01 am

Night Striker wrote:This is why I so like the cartoon history. None of this insanity about which gods created whom.

Okay to answer questions...

Before the dawn of time, order and chaod perfectly existed in an extradimensional entity known as the One (I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?). He was curious at the sigt of the new multiverse, and so created twin heralds to rule: Primus and Unicron. From the Astral Plane (what is this?), Primus led his brother inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?). In time, they shaped their prisons into metal planets, able to transform back into resemblances from their forms in the 'astral plane'. They each created bodies (planets) for themselves in each universe. Primus created duplicated of his spark, and placed them in each body across the universe. Unicron did not. He kept his own spark, but if he was destroyed, his spark would be flung to another body he created in another universe.'


(I, embarrisingly, do not know what the One is with this explanation. Clarification?)

The one in short is basically where life and the universe spun from, at least regarding Primus and Unicron. Think of, well God. It's an omnipotent being with powers we know nothing about, neither do the transformers. As of this time it's never been fully examined by Any known writer.

-So basically, he is A god? Hm. If that's the case, I'd like to picture him as the God od Chaos and Order.

From the Astral Plane (what is this?)

The Astral plane is in a sense limbo. A place where the soul or spark can reside in. It's a realm that only the spirits of a being can go to. An Astral being is usually one made like a ghost. I'm sure you've seen X-men comics. I think a few can do that trick.

-So, the Astral plane IS almost like the Allspark? A place where your spark resides?

In the end of the last CYbertron episode, it shhowed (presumably) Vector Prime's spark fighting Galvatron's in the Allspark. Is it like this?

inside 2 hollow metal asteroids. (metal? WTF?).

Metal astroids are astroids with metal compounds. Basically it' not totally metal, just a majority of it is the metalic compound.

-Ohhhh.

Of course the book ignores the whole thing of Primacron and his assistant. Which really sucks...
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:22 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
Weapon: Indepentently Targetable Particle Beam Cannons
Having not read Primal Scream, I cannot answer that fully, but then...

If all the answers were given there wouldn't be much point in anyone writing fan fics, or asking questions and starting discussions on forums.

:shock:

Hang on a minute, I've been terribly grumpy at you for doing just this.

How aweful.

:?

*disappears in a puff of logic*

Tread on noble searcher on your quest for the Wisdom of the Ages.

;)^
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:56 am

Ok, I read through the Ultimate Guide again, and understand a few more things.

Is this the ONLY piece of fiction that states that Primus was sub created from Unicron, and that Primus pssed his transformation powers to the TFs?

I really don't like these concepts, so I really wanna fanwank them out of existance. Time foe some white out. Possbibly.

They also say that The One created them-do they mean the One created them in the physical universe or the astral plane first?

Also, they seem to be implying that the Quints lied (or that Matrix lied) that they created the Transforemrs race. I like to think that Primus created them, then Unicron created the Quints, then the Quints enslaved the TF's, reprogrammming them causing the TF's to think the Quints made them.
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:38 am

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
Weapon: Indepentently Targetable Particle Beam Cannons
Fanwank whiteout? A little too much info me thinks?

*passes box of man size tissues*

;;)

Ahhh, the Quints.

I ran across an origin piece that tried to rectify the Quint origin with the Primus origin. This piece said that Primus was a renegade Quintesson scientist who escaped the Empire forming Cybertron only to have the Quints snatch it back.

Needless to say this, at least at face value, throws the whole Primus as God theory way out of whack.

That said it has inspired my attempt to unify these two apparently contradictory origins in fanfic:

http://www.eliteskills.com/z/148081

:-B
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:07 pm

I am just sorry, but the idea of primus being a Quint is jus a bit retarded for me.

I need to fanwank stuff, or else my head will :BOOM:

So can someone please answer my questions above?

BTW, what do you mean by 'Fanwank whiteout? A little too much info me thinks?

*passes box of man size tissues*'?
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Postby Malicron » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:21 pm

Motto: "We're all going to die... You go first."
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Tramp wrote:
i_amtrunks wrote:
Whiner-tron wrote:Too...much...conflicting...INFO!!! :BOOM:


Guess thats what happens when you have a dozen different writers at a dozen different times interpreting their own versions of back-story and history.

It would be easiest to explain the history of Primus and Unicron in relation to each individual series, but some people refuse to let that be, and insist that all series should be able to be tied in together, making it far too mushy and complicated.
Well, it was Hasbro that decided to tie Unicron and Primus as multiversal beings, with Primus existing in all realties at once and Unicron travelling between them as he consumes each. So blaim them. :WHISTLE:


I’d like to, but my head blew up. :sad:
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Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:00 pm

Any other help??
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Postby Tramp » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:13 pm

Eradicator wrote:
Tramp wrote:
Eradicator wrote:I don't like the Primus being separated from Primus, so I am fanwanking it out of existance.

I still don't understand the whole Astral Plane thing...


The Astral Plane is the plane of mind and spirit, a mental plane, not a physical one. Thus, distance and space are irrelevant. You have heard of astral projection and astral forms? Those are mental and spiritiual, That is the Astral plane. That is the true home of Primus and Unicron. Both exist in both the physical plane and astral plane. It is in the physical plane that Primus exists in multiple realities at once and Unicron exists in one at a time. It is through the Astral Plane that they are connected to these realities.


So if it was in a mental place, in Primal Scream, how does Primus lead Unicron through a portal into lifeless asteroids? DOes he create a 'bridge' to the physial world, then their 'spirit' selves go into the asteroids?

Sort of. Primus and Unicron exist on both planes simultaniously. hey have a physical form and an Astral form. Uncirn's Astral form looks jut like his phisical form. Primus' Astral form looks a lot like Rodimus Prime.

So, then in the 'astral plane' is kinda ike their 'sparks' in the allspark?
Not quite but close. Primus' Astral form is the Allspark. It's his spirit, his spark. It is tied to his body throught out the multiverse.
Tramp

Postby Tramp » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:18 pm

Primus C-00 wrote:Fanwank whiteout? A little too much info me thinks?

*passes box of man size tissues*

;;)

Ahhh, the Quints.

I ran across an origin piece that tried to rectify the Quint origin with the Primus origin. This piece said that Primus was a renegade Quintesson scientist who escaped the Empire forming Cybertron only to have the Quints snatch it back.

Needless to say this, at least at face value, throws the whole Primus as God theory way out of whack.

That said it has inspired my attempt to unify these two apparently contradictory origins in fanfic:

http://www.eliteskills.com/z/148081

:-B


That's just fan fiction. 3H did provide the connection between Primus and the Quintessan origin in a retcon in Wreckers #3. That is what the Ultimate Guide uses. Primus actually created the Transformers, and the Quints enslaved them.
Tramp

Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:49 pm

Tramp wrote:
Eradicator wrote:
Tramp wrote:
Eradicator wrote:I don't like the Primus being separated from Primus, so I am fanwanking it out of existance.

I still don't understand the whole Astral Plane thing...


The Astral Plane is the plane of mind and spirit, a mental plane, not a physical one. Thus, distance and space are irrelevant. You have heard of astral projection and astral forms? Those are mental and spiritiual, That is the Astral plane. That is the true home of Primus and Unicron. Both exist in both the physical plane and astral plane. It is in the physical plane that Primus exists in multiple realities at once and Unicron exists in one at a time. It is through the Astral Plane that they are connected to these realities.


So if it was in a mental place, in Primal Scream, how does Primus lead Unicron through a portal into lifeless asteroids? DOes he create a 'bridge' to the physial world, then their 'spirit' selves go into the asteroids?

Sort of. Primus and Unicron exist on both planes simultaniously. hey have a physical form and an Astral form. Uncirn's Astral form looks jut like his phisical form. Primus' Astral form looks a lot like Rodimus Prime.

So, then in the 'astral plane' is kinda ike their 'sparks' in the allspark?
Not quite but close. Primus' Astral form is the Allspark. It's his spirit, his spark. It is tied to his body throught out the multiverse.


So Primus' spark IS the Allspark? I still don't understand how if they had a body in the physical world and the mantal world how Primu's could have lead them into asteroids.
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Postby Tramp » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:18 pm

Yes, Primus' Spark is the Allspark. Based upon the retcon, Primus didn't trap himself and Unicron in those bodies. They each chose planet forms capbable of becomiong robots as their physical bodies. The original Marvel story had Primus trickingn Unicron and imprisoning both their spirits fully in the Material plane. Thus was later retconned by Hasbro, in particular by Simon Furman who also originally wrote the Marvel Primus/Unicron origin. In other words, the idea of them being trapped in astroids was scrapped all together and changed into them chosing planet forms for their physical bodies.
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Postby Primus C-00 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:22 pm

Motto: "" [An] Aquarius wants to share enlightenment with other species through righteous hands-on interaction, and he's gotta do what his heart wants, even if the Man ain't copacetic with it.""
Weapon: Indepentently Targetable Particle Beam Cannons
Well when you fanwork I'd imagine there is fanjizz, or whiteout.

The wayi look at it, Transformer Origin fiction is like a well armed decepticon there's just too much:

canon


Oh I kill me...

:grin:
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Postby Uniprimus » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:34 pm

Tramp wrote:Yes, Primus' Spark is the Allspark. Based upon the retcon, Primus didn't trap himself and Unicron in those bodies. They each chose planet forms capbable of becomiong robots as their physical bodies. The original Marvel story had Primus trickingn Unicron and imprisoning both their spirits fully in the Material plane. Thus was later retconned by Hasbro, in particular by Simon Furman who also originally wrote the Marvel Primus/Unicron origin. In other words, the idea of them being trapped in astroids was scrapped all together and changed into them chosing planet forms for their physical bodies.


Where's it say that?? How about non retconning it with the Primal scream. I still don't understand.

Here: can someone give me te rigin of the Transformers (Primus/Unicron one) WITH all of the retconns changing it, in other words the current story based upon all of the retconns?
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Postby Tramp » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:29 pm

Eradicator wrote:
Tramp wrote:Yes, Primus' Spark is the Allspark. Based upon the retcon, Primus didn't trap himself and Unicron in those bodies. They each chose planet forms capbable of becomiong robots as their physical bodies. The original Marvel story had Primus trickingn Unicron and imprisoning both their spirits fully in the Material plane. Thus was later retconned by Hasbro, in particular by Simon Furman who also originally wrote the Marvel Primus/Unicron origin. In other words, the idea of them being trapped in astroids was scrapped all together and changed into them chosing planet forms for their physical bodies.


Where's it say that?? How about non retconning it with the Primal scream. I still don't understand.

Here: can someone give me te rigin of the Transformers (Primus/Unicron one) WITH all of the retconns changing it, in other words the current story based upon all of the retconns?


Read pages 10, 50, 51 and 53 of the Ultimate Guide.
Tramp

Postby Damolisher » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:37 pm

See, THIS is why the Ultimate Guide is complete bullcrap. It tries to compeltely remove 20 years of Transformers history. NO-ONE can be stupid enough to ignore all 20+ years of history all because one little book wants to change everything.
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