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THE SPAM THREAD

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

Postby Night Striker » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:15 pm

Guys guys guys, Calm down. Thank you both for defending me. :D But I can handle this issue with Tramp.

Tramp, Eradicator asked the following question.

1. Primus and Unicron in the Astral Plane. It says that, in Marvel Primal Scream, that they actually started out in tha Astral Plane, then Primus created a portal to lead them to the physical world, them he lead them into lifeless asterids. BUT, in TUG, it says that they each HAD bodies in the physical world WHILE they were in the Astral Plane. It doesn't sem like it is retconning Marvel, but this is what I don't understand.


In my statement I'm simply trying to simplify the matter. Since you believe that the whole issue of Marvel was reconned, I simply took his question as, okay if they really didn't recon the marvel story, which you insisted that they did, then how is it possible for them to have physical bodies while they were in the astral plane.

In the old UK Marvel stories, there was an issue where the Neo Knights of the Marvel verse came to Cybertron. In it Xarron (or however you spell his name) is possessed by Primus, who was still within his body. It made me think that Primus, much like Professor X, could very easily have held one body first, that one was destroyed to a point where only his brain worked, and thus pushed them into the astral plane. Which I will point out to you has been done in TF by having Prime go into Hi-Q's body. Not to mention the fact that Xavier has done it before as well. A number of times in the X-men comics, which no doubt influcened the idea of the Astral plane fight in the first place.

So to possibly explain how there could be a fight on one level and then a physical one, then how they became planets, it just made sense to indicate this rather then trying to feature the idea of spirits having physical forms physically fighting in a plane where only energy could seriously kill or harm the.

And before you argue this point, I have been studying comics for years! So I do know most if not all the tricks in creating multipule platform universes.

To Eradicator, Have you ever read any X-men, or seen the cartoons? In several of the old 90s episodes Professor X basically turned his form into a ghost and went into a world where only ghosts dwelled. This is the Astral plane. The word Astral means Ghost like. Meaning simply it's a ghost or spirit. So when we all say they took their battle to the Astral plane, we simply mean, they became ghosts in a ghost world.
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Postby Night Striker » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:17 pm

Liege Evilmus, in turn, I would greatly appricate you checking my theory out and critiquing it as well. ^_^

It's a pitty there's not a fanfiction section! Really

My own theory goes like this.

Long ago there was a group of beings that had become a bit too intellegent for their own sake. They decided to try to capture their god, a being called the One. However their actions split the One into two halves, creating the one's two children or hearlds: Unicron -the essence of Chaos and darkness, and Primus -the essence of Light and order. These were kept housed in different temples until the beings decided to capture the gods. So they had Primacron, one of their beings, create a shell to house the god of darkness. This they offically called Unicron, the one in Time. Unicron rebeled and attacked the people, destoying them, but before he could kill Primacron...his robotic assistant, who had over time though expouser to the powers of Unicron and Primus gained sentience, sacraficed his life to save Primacron.

In doing so the robot's spark came apart. Part of the spark became the matrix, orginally held by Primacron inside a small chamber. The other part became the Oracle (No realtion to Beast Machines) who helped fill the matrix with wisdom. Unicron took off into the universe to gordge himself on planets. Primacron felt that he had to stop this creature, so he created a new body, with droids helping him, and placed Primus spark in there. But unlike Unicron who saw the world as his own play thing, Primus sought to find order.

Finding his brother the two duked it out causing mass destruction. Which fed Unicron. It was only when Primus realized that he would have to keep his brother in a dorment state that he placed some of his spark in the Matrix, and then took his brother to the astral plane. In here he was able to place Unicron to sleep and then he too took rest converting his body, like Unicrons, into a planet. From here he created the first transformers whom he used to keep himself maintained.

In time the beings Unicron destroyed became a speicies known as the Vok, since they migrated to a dimension that existed between space. Time was different here, and it was from here that they continued to experiment, with no fear of their twin gods. These beings created their own creatures called the Quintessons. However these creatures did not live up to what the Vok wanted, and they abandoned the Quints to space. In doing so the Quints went around and harvested planets for their own use. Eventually they discoverd Cybertron, and found a world run by Drones.

Here they easily subjected the drones to slavery, having them build factories and plugging a computer known as Vector Sigma into the core of the planet. This core was the heart of Primus, and linked VS to the Allspark (or rather Primus own spark as it was) allowing the computer to gain its own sentience. The drones had been rebuilt as two different factions by the Quintessons. Consumer goods (later Autobots) and War Machines (Later Decepticons) which were sold to other species. Sigma feeling for it's creations broke the lock it had placed on the drones minds giving them the ablity to once more have free will. To try to gain power over the drones the Quintes built the dark guardian robots.

In time to come the guardian robots came under the commands of the drones who eventually beat their masters, and thus laided the ground work for the two factions. Years later the Vok would rediscover the Transformers and find Earth through them....but that's a story for far later.
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Postby Tramp » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:26 pm

Actually, you can put fan fiction in the Kitbashes, Artwork and Fanfiction forum.
Tramp

Postby Night Striker » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:37 pm

Oh I didn't know that. Thank you Tramp. ^_^
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Postby Tramp » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:38 pm

You are most welcome. 8)
Tramp

Postby Liege Evilmus » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:40 pm

We hav a some conflicts between out ideas of what the nature of TF's are, but over all we are are on the same page.

I love that you brought the Vok into your mythos. One very important thing alot of fans forget about them is that although the Beast Wars bots are from the future, they had they're battles in the past.

As a group that acknowledged The Vok as superior to them even then, I feel they could play a much larger part in the worlds of Transformers than they have as purely going by looks, they apear(again at least to me) to be solidified sparks!

Couple that with there knowledge of Cybertronian physiology, I think this is something valid.

As to their involvement with the Quintessons, well I can't agree or disagree as to me, they've always been something pre-existing like so many other things in the cosmos. I've yet to determine(or realy put any effrot into determing) their origins.


If anything(and this may be a pure bias) I would asociate the Quints in their early days as something similar to our social elite.

Beautiful educated people who can do nothing for themselves. As they riened mastry over their servents, their bodies began to dwindel. It didn't matter though as their control over comerce and servants ment they could be lazy.

So long as they knew enough to keep maters flowing, all was well.

The race became lazier though as it became richer. The only purpose it needed to pursue though was knowledge as that was the true power of the universe.

They discovered races grivences and exploited them from threir chairs that they no longer felt the need to get out of.

To this extent they found a race with a science that could let them travel on beams of light. They adapted this tech and countless others as they promissed to protect each civilization they came across from rumors of other worlds with grips they instigated to serve their own needs.

With bodies nearly abandoned the most elite of the Quintessons underwent surgeries to enhance and glorify the aspects of their egos. This was the dawn of the 5 faced form. These where the most agnostic, arogant, and sociopathic of the bunch.

The lesser Quints either decorated their natural single face elaboratly to show status, or went the other route and took horrific forms to instill fears into whomb ever they met.

And if all seemed good to this master mindful race then, the technorganics of a budding cybertron would only be a cherry on their cake, so they invaded.

Primus, still in a state of flux, saw the drama ahead and pulled into himself as he wasn't whole yet and cried for his children that he had no choice but to watch become enslaved.

To this day, in the deepest parts of the universe, those cries still echo.

----------------------------------------------------

As to anyone who sayes this is bull because it's not canon, I say screw them, lets colaborate, make a story with full art, market it, thus making it(buy the simplist means) canon and tell everyone to do what we tell them to(I'm thinking Primus wants some cheese steaks sent to my house :grin: )
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Postby Night Striker » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:34 am

*laughs* Would be awesome if that could happen. :D Yay for cheese Steaks.

What you said about the quints seems really feasable. Considering their postion and everything, and their ego. It makes perfect sense that they would go and create bodies like that to show how superior they were. Would be an interesting thing if the Quintes had a war with the Vok on which was the superior species.

Has it ever been discussed how the Vok knew about the Transfomers or Earth prior to Beast Wars? Wow that ending that you put on there rings really true of the Primes. And it would make sense that he would do this.

Tramp, thanks again for pointing out the other form. I now know where my stories can go here. ^_^
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Postby Liege Evilmus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:20 am

Why can't it?

We're both good writers(at least I think so), and I consider myself a good artist with more than plenty of friends who realy outshine me who have no ideas of their own talents and are always looking for projects.

All we have to do is make a story with corosponding art and submit it.

Whats the worst that'll happen, they'll say "NO"

What's the best, we can say take your canon, cram it where the sun don't shine, and light the fuse :grin:

Either way, I'm a huge Beast Era fan, and love that you keep bringing up The Vok!

I wouldn't trust it to the current powers that be, but I'd love to see them make a qualiy reintro to the fray.

But with stories how they are, they'd be just another race of TF gods who Primus and Unicron forgot about who blah blah blah, Transformer even more gods...
---------------------------------------------------------
Now sorry but as an heathen with roman catholic roots, I believe there are many great explainable and unexplainable things in the universe, but only one god.

This goes for both Transformmers, and man.

This is why I try and devise logical, indepth origins to the things I hold dear.

Didn't wanna go church there, but I had to seperate my reason between "GOD" and "happenstance" even in the world of TFs
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Postby Night Striker » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:29 am

No applogieze need and I know I'd be up for writing a transfomers comic. Heck I WANT to write a novel with them. The thing is first to test the waters and all.

Regarding Gods in TF, I get tired of them. And if they do that with the Vok, I personally will ask Furman what he was thinking at Botcon and ask him why he took something so blatenly alien and switched it over, becuase they pretty much are alien, or a higher form of life.

(This is one of the few reasons why I don't always like what Simon writes. I respect him as a fellow writer, but I don't have to always like his ideas.)
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Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:32 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
I think I hear wedding bells :-P
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Postby Liege Evilmus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:50 am

Wedding bells may be pushing it :shock:

But a kindered spirit to work with is definetly something worth a dam :-?

If you want, PM me Night Striker. I have my TF theories, they are food for my origional ideas.

I have alot of un-TF things that I'm looking to get off the ground. I could alwas use an open mind to bounce ideas off of and see what comes of that.

Keep in mind, I apreciate favors, and never ask anyone to work for nothing.
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Postby Uniprimus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:03 am

I always enjoyed the Vok evolving from the Swarm. No offense.

Plus, no offense, but I may have the One split HIMSELF in half to make Primus and Unicron. Which would kinda make sense, right?
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Postby Liege Evilmus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:06 am

Confoundit! You Sir Hath Offeneded Thee :P
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Postby Night Striker » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:47 pm

Wedding bells...um...aren't we jumping way ahead of ourselves. :shock:

But sure I'd be happy to bounce Ideas off of you Liege, I have my own ideas for non TF stuff I'm working on.

Eradicator I think I suggested that a while ago. *grins* But yes it would work. As I said that's how I had it done.
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Postby Uniprimus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:46 pm

Well, today, bored, a great idea popped into my head:

In the beginning, there existed a SPIRITUAL entity known as the One who contained perfect levels of chaos and order. The One resided in the Astral Plane, having no body. Witnessing the sight of a new universe come to be, he was eager to explore it. He split hmself in half [1], creating one being of order, Primus, and the other of chaos, Unicron. Before entering the physical wordld, they fought knowing each had different purposes. After eost of was, Primus created a portal leading to physical world. Primus entered a gigantic metal asteroid. Thinking this would boost his power, Unicron did the same. It was not long that he figured out he was wrong...

[1] Can someone tell me why he would want to do this?
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Postby Night Striker » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:18 pm

Well if this is going into the realm of fictional stories shouldn't this be moved there?

Well if you mean Primus with your question it would be becuase he knew that Unicron was egotistical enough to jump into the astroid thinking it would grant him power, only to have Unicron learn to late that his chaotic nature made it harder to create a body in the astroid thus incompassitate him for millienum. It was set up as a way of imprisoning his darker half.

Unicron, he was trying to gain the power his twin had and thus followed thinking that he could probably beat his brother to a pulp and thus have no one to bother him. Only he learned to late that it wasn't so.
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Postby Liege Evilmus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:34 pm

Or maybe(as thats all any of this is).

This being called The One grew tired of only watching the physical world and wanted to eperience it for himself.

He split himself in two seperating his balance as evenly as one could and sent Primus into the universe to do nothing more than experiance what it was like to be matter and not mind.

Primus enetered our relm and did as he was instructed. However this was an experimental endeveor and he did not realize that once a host was taken, he would be bonded to it.
Trapped, he had no way of comunicating, or returning to his place of origin.

In this time, without order to balance chaos, what was left of the one grew to believe that his other half was taking the universe for himself, without the intent on sharing the experience of being matter.

Hate began to take over, and thus he decided to enter the universe with the sole intent of destroying his other's kingdom...
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Postby Uniprimus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:45 pm

What about Unicron?
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Postby Damolisher » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:50 pm

Why would Primus hate anything? He's the God of light. (Well, except for the Lackluster bus system we've got in my town. Even a light God would have no tolerance for that crap.)
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Postby Liege Evilmus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:58 pm

oops,

I reread my theory and didn't mention him by name there, but he was the remaining, envious half that struck out into the universe to destroy it.

Following your idea(and its a very good one), Unicron came into the world under a false pretense thinking Primus was trying to take it for himself.

Taking a physical form himself, he became trapped same as Primus. However an angry will does move quick. In an attempt to modify his form to actualy go about his mission of destroying the world. He manipulated his form alot quicker than Primus did.

Meanwhile Primus was intent to take his time developing his body as that was his mission, to experience solid life.

Now every good story needs a twist of tragedy, so Being trapped in there forms, they can only reach out with there minds now and never fully return to there home relm.

Thus The One, who never intended on being seperated forever, can never be again...
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Postby i_amtrunks » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:22 pm

Damolisher wrote:Why would Primus hate anything? He's the God of light. (Well, except for the Lackluster bus system we've got in my town. Even a light God would have no tolerance for that crap.)


You have Buses in Kiwiland? I thought you all rode sheep the the Union matches! :P

I'm enjoying reading all these versions/theories and concepts.
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Postby Liege Evilmus » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:56 am

i_amtrunks wrote:
Damolisher wrote:Why would Primus hate anything? He's the God of light. (Well, except for the Lackluster bus system we've got in my town. Even a light God would have no tolerance for that crap.)


You have Buses in Kiwiland? I thought you all rode sheep the the Union matches! :P

I'm enjoying reading all these versions/theories and concepts.


Cool :grin:

At this point I'm seeing all this as origional theory based on what has been put out there, as apose to a single answer stated from whats out there.

So I ask. What's your take on this?
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Postby Uniprimus » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:40 pm

No, actually I meant why would the One want to split himself in half? It would be like saying I am going outside, so im gonna split myself in half!

Like, what would the reson be?

And why does no one answer my question, 'in what fiction does it actually say Primus exists in all universes whereas Uni is only 1 in the multiverse??
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Postby Tramp » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:47 pm

Eradicator wrote:No, actually I meant why would the One want to split himself in half? It would be like saying I am going outside, so im gonna split myself in half!

Like, what would the reson be?

And why does no one answer my question, 'in what fiction does it actually say Primus exists in all universes whereas Uni is only 1 in the multiverse??


The One didn't split himself in two. HE created a herald named Unicron, and then decided to split that herald into two beings, Primus and Unicron. Secondly, we did answer your question. It was the Universe fiction written during the 3H running of the Official TF fan club and BotCon, that the retcon was first espablished where Primus existed in all realities at once and Unicron existed in each one at a time. Wreckers #3 established the Primus connection within the cartoon continuity retconning the Quintessan origin.
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Postby Uniprimus » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:00 pm

Well, I did not say that. Did you read the above posts? I meant for my possible fan fic that why would he split himself in 2?

So it was only in the universe comics it said that, eh? You got quotes or what? (please)?
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