The Energon Pub

First Gen wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:problem is that Hasbro/Takara Tomy has no rights to my money..

In other news, water is good for drinking, food is good for eating, and air is good for breathing.

You're getting 'out there' with your arguments. Saying 'Takara has no rights to my money' was such an outlandish claim that it distracted from other relevant points you might try to make.

Mentioning Titanium Ultra Magnus might be a fair discussion point, one which I will eventually disagree with the relevance of, but the first statement you made was too off and too distracting.

I think we're getting too far off base here gents.

Its really hard to argue the rights and wrongs of the Upgrade Kits without a true definition of Intellectual law at hand and the most common interpetation of that law.

Now, getting back on subject, should this be content that should be reflected on Seibertron.com as actual news? Do we consider non official items all 3rd party or is there a grey area?

All the legal issues aside, the term "third party" is used too loosely here. There are many companies outside of Hasbro and TakaraTomy that sell Transformers merchandise, with permission from HasTak of course. Still, they're third party. Put short, we got two categories of third parties:

Licensees
They are responsible for creating the various merchandise with the Transformers logo on them, or use the IP, with permission, for their products. Think Hard Hero, Pelisades and the stuff at Hot Topic. Their main function is to produce items HasTak does not have the resources for (like experience).

Non-Licensees (aka unofficial)
That's the main concern of this thread. Basically any company that makes "Transformers" merchandise without permission. Goes without saying, that's illegal, but the spectrum of severity varies greatly here.

The focus of the news, IMO, still should remain with the official merchandise. I'm not saying we should become Hasbro's lapdog, we should also reserve some room for the unofficial to illegal merchandise (without advertising it of course). Let's face it, the community would never have known about the surge of G1 Bootlegs were it not for the news. It concerns our hobby and the fans have the right to know about such things, legal or not.
I think, should the News Crew decide to report it (in a seperate category or not), there should be a disclaimer: "this product is unofficial, not sponsored or endorsed by Hasbro or TakaraTomy", or something similar.

Editor wrote:Because, and not to mince words, people use this site to keep up to date on the world of TF's. To disregard those products, simply because they don't come out of Hasbro or Takara directly is a disservice to the fandom at large.

::Gold Star Awarded::

Editor wrote:Here is my question to the News Crew. Do you see your yourselves as an extension of Hasbro's marketing department, or an independent web site that exists to help fans, and other parties looking for information.

Because, and not to mince words, people use this site to keep up to date on the world of TF's. To disregard those products, simply because they don't come out of Hasbro or Takara directly is a disservice to the fandom at large.

I see myself as a news-mod at a fan site that brings TF related news to the TF community's attention, official products or not. I create awareness of new TF toys made by HAs/TAk, new cartoons, comics, adverts, books, competitions, sales, promotions and conventions. I also make people aware of unofficial fan produced items as people are interested in these things and they are a part of our hobby and interests just like when I warn people of a new KO that looks like the real deal.

If Hasbro or Takara want to restrict me to reporting only official products than I would demand two things: Them sending me the photos and information and a weekly pay-cheque just like all their marketing employees get.

skywarp-2 wrote:well if we are getting technically intrinsic then let's look at it this way.. By law there have been no cases that establish anything I have purchased via 3rd party to be "illegal"

so technically my right to purchase still stands.. as nothing I have bought has technically been against the law since no prosecution has yet been levied..

so as of right now, I am doing nothing wrong.. until a prosecution is made against a 3rd party I purchased from, the precedent that that specific product is illegal has yet to be established..

you can't say something is illegal by nature, unless it has been proven illegal by nature in a court of law.. until then it is the same as those street vendors in italy that sell "reproductions" AKA "Knock offs" of the Mona Lisa..

I disagree with the statement that people have the right to spend their money where ever they want, which is what my post was meant to address. It has nothing to do with what you or anyone else has bought and possess. I'm strictly speaking of legal rights with regards to purchase of goods.

My point is that there is no granted right that I'm aware of that states one can buy whatever they choose since that would conflict with the widespread laws against the purchase and possession of illegal items. If theres such a right that says I can buy whatever I want, it's kind of like saying "You've got the right to do whatever you want but don't do something stupid like buying drugs. That'll just make more work for us law enforcers and you know how much we hate to run after perps.".

I'm pretty sure that if I was taken to court for purchasing something that may be an illegal item, even if it's as mundane as a toy, my lawyer wouldn't have grounds to call upon a supposed citizen's right to buy whatever they want as my defense. The purchase of illegal goods in most countries is not prohibited.

Convotron wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:well if we are getting technically intrinsic then let's look at it this way.. By law there have been no cases that establish anything I have purchased via 3rd party to be "illegal"

so technically my right to purchase still stands.. as nothing I have bought has technically been against the law since no prosecution has yet been levied..

so as of right now, I am doing nothing wrong.. until a prosecution is made against a 3rd party I purchased from, the precedent that that specific product is illegal has yet to be established..

you can't say something is illegal by nature, unless it has been proven illegal by nature in a court of law.. until then it is the same as those street vendors in italy that sell "reproductions" AKA "Knock offs" of the Mona Lisa..

I disagree with the statement that people have the right to spend their money where ever they want, which is what my post was meant to address. It has nothing to do with what you or anyone else has bought and possess. I'm strictly speaking of legal rights with regards to purchase of goods.

My point is that there is no granted right that I'm aware of that states one can buy whatever they choose since that would conflict with the widespread laws against the purchase and possession of illegal items. If theres such a right that says I can buy whatever I want, it's kind of like saying "You've got the right to do whatever you want but don't do something stupid like buying drugs. That'll just make more work for us law enforcers and you know how much we hate to run after perps.".

I'm pretty sure that if I was taken to court for purchasing something that may be an illegal item, even if it's as mundane as a toy, my lawyer wouldn't have grounds to call upon a supposed citizen's right to buy whatever they want as my defense. The purchase of illegal goods in most countries is not prohibited.

Buying what ever you want is your right.. but if you buy something illegal, and you get caught, you then pay the price for that action..

the term "Right" is more of an action in my meaning, like there is no invisible Government Magical being that stops you physically from getting out your card from your wallet to make a purchase..

that is all I meant by right..

you won't get shot for paying money to some one..at least not in this country..(unless your in drug riddled streets)

skywarp-2 wrote:Buying what ever you want is your right.. but if you buy something illegal, and you get caught, you then pay the price for that action..

the term "Right" is more of an action in my meaning, like there is no invisible Government Magical being that stops you physically from getting out your card from your wallet to make a purchase..

that is all I meant by right..

you won't get shot for paying money to some one..at least not in this country..(unless your in drug riddled streets)

Oh, gotcha. I understand what you mean now.

Dead Metal wrote:I see myself as a news-mod at a fan site that brings TF related news to the TF community's attention, official products or not. I create awareness of new TF toys made by HAs/TAk, new cartoons, comics, adverts, books, competitions, sales, promotions and conventions. I also make people aware of unofficial fan produced items as people are interested in these things and they are a part of our hobby and interests just like when I warn people of a new KO that looks like the real deal.

If Hasbro or Takara want to restrict me to reporting only official products than I would demand two things: Them sending me the photos and information and a weekly pay-cheque just like all their marketing employees get.

Exactly the kind of answer I was hoping to see.

Counterpunch wrote:

Editor wrote:Because, and not to mince words, people use this site to keep up to date on the world of TF's. To disregard those products, simply because they don't come out of Hasbro or Takara directly is a disservice to the fandom at large.

::Gold Star Awarded::

Thank you, good Sir.

skywarp-2 wrote:Buying what ever you want is your right.. but if you buy something illegal, and you get caught, you then pay the price for that action..

the term "Right" is more of an action in my meaning, like there is no invisible Government Magical being that stops you physically from getting out your card from your wallet to make a purchase..

that is all I meant by right..

you won't get shot for paying money to some one..at least not in this country..(unless your in drug riddled streets)

"When I use a word... it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
--- Humpty Dumpty to Alice, Through the Looking-Glass

It's starting to sound like old Kennedy speaches in here. "Ask not what Takara/Hasbro can do for you, but what you can do for Takara/Hasbro."

Though no one actually said it like that, that's the gist I'm getting here. I'm glad 3rd party companies are making stuff to add on, they fix T/H's mistakes, and add a custom feel to the toys, for those who can't kitbash.


In all seriousness, how many of you feel like you're getting the short end of the stick on some of the figures you buy? Unless you're buying a Masterpiece (self explanitory figure) or Binaltech/Alt, chances are, you're not getting a top quality figure. The classics and Henkeis are great, but other addons complete what I feel are incomplete figures.

So yea, 3rd party stuff is great, but it all boils down to the opinions of you guys. Are they important or necessary for your collection? I have to be honest, if you have a Classics Ultra Magnus without his armor, you're nuts for not buying him the City Commander set. And Optimus isn't really complete without his trailer.

Rastamus Prime wrote:It's starting to sound like old Kennedy speaches in here. "Ask not what Takara/Hasbro can do for you, but what you can do for Takara/Hasbro."

Though no one actually said it like that, that's the gist I'm getting here. I'm glad 3rd party companies are making stuff to add on, they fix T/H's mistakes, and add a custom feel to the toys, for those who can't kitbash.


In all seriousness, how many of you feel like you're getting the short end of the stick on some of the figures you buy? Unless you're buying a Masterpiece (self explanitory figure) or Binaltech/Alt, chances are, you're not getting a top quality figure. The classics and Henkeis are great, but other addons complete what I feel are incomplete figures.

So yea, 3rd party stuff is great, but it all boils down to the opinions of you guys. Are they important or necessary for your collection? I have to be honest, if you have a Classics Ultra Magnus without his armor, you're nuts for not buying him the City Commander set. And Optimus isn't really complete without his trailer.

I haven't found any of the officially produced figures I've bought to be less than the expected quality for their size class and price tag. In fact, some of the figures I've bought exceeded my expectations.

The design of RotF Scout Ransack is something that was a pleasant surprise. To get the kind of detail at that size class is impressive to me. RotF Leader Optimus Prime is like an unofficial Masterpiece figure with respect to design. The sculpting of the figure in both bot and alt modes is great. The likeness to the character model is heads and shoulders above the 2007 move Leader class version, which was highly praised in its time. The transformation process is very satisfying for complexity and involvement but it isn't needlessly difficult. It flows and the design doesn't seem like any part of the process is forced. To me, it's like a "natural" transformation.

Many of the Classics and Universe figures have great visual design and transformation processes. Mirage's virtually kibble free alt mode is very cool. The figure is super poseable. Hound has an elegantly simple transformation and I think the same can be said of Bumblebee. Incorporating parts into the robot mode like having the seats form part of the thighs is something I find pretty darn cool in transformation design.

The Transformers Animated line of toys are particularly impressive to me for a high level of show likeness. Putting aside opinions of the art direction of the show, the toy design and transformation engineering is very well thought out in many of the figures. Oil Slick stands out to me because of both visual design and the toy design. As a cyclebot, so many things could go wrong in the kibble department but Oil Slick is free of unecessary kibble in bot and alt modes. All parts serve a purpose, nothing is extraneous. Details like having both a transparent plastic dome and light piping in the head sculpt to create a unique lighting effect stand out to me too because it was totally unecessary but that attention to detail is fantastic.

I could go on about other official figures but it would take a while...I'm still catching up on other lines like RiD and the Unicron Trilogy.

I suggest stepping back a moment and recognizing that the majority of unofficial products are substandard in design and quality. I believe a significant part of the positive opinion of unofficial products is largely due to the exceptional work by FansProject. For every City Commander, though, there exists several sets of junk out there like accessory kits with poorly molded parts and cheap knock offs that look like the inbred automobile accident cousin of a Transformer. So, yes, a relative few 3rd party products are great. Most of them suck, unfortunately.

Unofficial/3rd party products are not necessary in my collection as it is now nor will they be needed in the future. However, they are welcome additions, they are certainly appreciated enhancements for a select few figures of the dozens I currently own. I have Shadow and D.I.A. Powered Commander, pre-ordered the re-issue of City Commander, and have ordered the Aerial Team Appendage kit. That's it for unofficial products. I plan on buying the TFX-ABT-01 accessory kit for Alternators Optimus Prime, FansProject's G3 trailer, and the BTS trailer. It's a while away but the Protector kit for Classics/Henkei Rodimus is on my list of unofficial products to buy.

Pretty much the only unofficial products I buy are ones that address a function the can't be currently found in the official product line up. However, they aren't necessary for my collection. The Optimus Prime and repaints I have are wonderful without the Commander upgrade sets. One of the reasons I started collecting was seeing Classics Optimus Prime's photo gallery at this site. The design is contemporary but contains all the iconic visuals of the character that I loved when I was a kid. From there, I was hooked and spent a few days going through photo galleries here to start catching up on all the Transformers I missed out on. That's the thing...my motivation for collecting is the Transformers. If all of a sudden the unofficial product market disappeared I wouldn't stop collecting and say "F this, I'm out of here.".

I guess that's how I see things. Unofficial products are the cherry on top of the sundae but I came here for the ice cream.

I haven't found any of the officially produced figures I've bought to be less than the expected quality for their size class and price tag. In fact, some of the figures I've bought exceeded my expectations.

Many of the Classics and Universe figures have great visual design and transformation processes. Mirage's virtually kibble free alt mode is very cool. The figure is super poseable. Hound has an elegantly simple transformation and I think the same can be said of Bumblebee. Incorporating parts into the robot mode like having the seats form part of the thighs is something I find pretty darn cool in transformation design.

My bad, I should of expanded my point there. No doubt they are great figures I love them. I think for some nostalgia and what not, the Classics/Henkei are great homages to the original G1 characters. My main concern with both is rubber tires, I don't know why but I think it's something that should just come standard like it did back in the day. It sucks we have to buy Alts, MPs an BTs to get all that. Hasbro, for some reason refuses to chrome parts that should be chromed and instead paints the some dull, not even reminescent of metallic grey color. At least the Henkeis get that. But now again paying extra for what I feel should be standard quality, (an extra ten dollars for a Henkei deluxe class?)

Now I see I just went off on a tangent about quality, but the main point was 3rd party merch is there to enhance your figure. It's nice to see others piching in and designing customs for Transformers, it gives almost a community like feel to it.

Just to touch on the comments in regards to Seibertron.com reporting news on 3rd party products/KOs. Since the mindset on those comments is that they are "illegal", I would assume the same would apply to news of photos showing stolen TF figures from the factory.

And commenting on the FP's Springer figure compared to car modes of official Hasbro figures. If you were to take Universe Sunstreaker and show him to people in car mode, most of those people will recognize it as a Lamborghini. Though, no where on the packaging for Universe Sunstreaker says its a Lamborghini, or licensed. Since the reason FP's Springer is viewed "illegal", is because its not licensed, than the same rule would apply to some of Hasbro's official figures. Universe Prowl (Nissan 350), ROTF Sideways (Audi R8), Cybertron Crosswise (Bugatti Veyron), Classics Rodimus (Dome Zero P2, yes, a real car). From the design which FP showed, its not a copy of any of Hasbro's Springer toys. But, it does look similar, same thing that Hasbro has done with car modes, which are not licensed. How is it ok for Hasbro to do that?

Just my thoughts.

Rastamus Prime wrote:My bad, I should of expanded my point there. No doubt they are great figures I love them. I think for some nostalgia and what not, the Classics/Henkei are great homages to the original G1 characters. My main concern with both is rubber tires, I don't know why but I think it's something that should just come standard like it did back in the day. It sucks we have to buy Alts, MPs an BTs to get all that. Hasbro, for some reason refuses to chrome parts that should be chromed and instead paints the some dull, not even reminescent of metallic grey color. At least the Henkeis get that. But now again paying extra for what I feel should be standard quality, (an extra ten dollars for a Henkei deluxe class?)

Now I see I just went off on a tangent about quality, but the main point was 3rd party merch is there to enhance your figure. It's nice to see others piching in and designing customs for Transformers, it gives almost a community like feel to it.

Not at all.

Most people, most fans, aren't going to have the exact same views on this kind of product simply because before the last few years, the majority of unofficial products were knock offs of pretty shoddy quality. The collectors who have been around for some time are probably going to have a different perspective than newer collectors like myself, who take for granted that good 3rd party products are available and aren't the norm. I was like a kid in a candy shop before reading discussions on unofficial products and realizing everything involved with this area of the collector market.

These days, we're seeing greater quality and expansion into more original accessory concepts. That's a great thing in my opinion. It definitely gives us collectors a way to enhance our already great enjoyment of these toys. I think it's easy to get caught up in this kind of discussion and kind of forget that there are some unofficial products that are great and don't morally tread on anyone's toes. At the same time, there are many unofficial products that are very iffy at best and outright design/concept theft at worst. While it's an extreme scenario, Hasbro/Takara could try to take extensive action against unofficial products, causing all unofficial products, "good" and "bad", to become very hard to purchase. I think that's part of the concern for some people like myself who don't want to see producers like FansProject disappear.

Chrome parts and rubber tires are great but I've heard about decay and wear of both materials that can be quite a pain. I've heard that the rubber tires on figures that are only several years old like the Robots in Disguise/Car Robots Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy tend to split without proper care. In the long run, plastic tires are better for simply not falling apart on their own. I imagine that high quality rubber and chroming applications can reduce wear and decay but that's where the price tag goes up.

Concerning copyrighted likeness a point raised by venksta for the aforementioned "Defender" figure which we all know to be Springer ver.2. I touched a bit of it when I asked if the copter/car/muscle man designe + gray and yellow apps have already been well copyrighted/trademarked by HasTak. Maybe, just maybe, even the now infamous iGear mini-me MP can get a way from any legal entanglement.

The diaclone G1 series which eventually evolved into Transformers was a prime example of real life copyright /TM infringements. Lamborghini aka Sideswipe, Jeep aka Hound etc. Back then, TM laws weren't that strict and if I'm not mistaken, the TFC version of Sideswipe already got rid of the "Countach" on his label/decal.

So where does this take me, I a videogamer myself, I noticed this anomaly on two games that look like walking copyright infringers but from what I know, well no case yet has been filed against them. Which game do I mean? Super Mario 3 and Legend of Zelda.

You say huh? A bigtime company like Nintendo infringe on copyrights? Well for those on the know, just take a look at most of the character designs of Super Mario 3, Tanuki Mario and the rest of Mario's super forms are a direct rip-off from Disney's Peter Pan's Lost Boys. Okay, maybe Peter Pan is a public domain property (that I'm not sure), maybe not, IIRC,Disney got some agreement with the estate of the original author of Peter Pan. Are the feral designs of the Lost Boys manifested as such in the Disney big screen version graphically described in the book or a result of the creative freedom applied by the original Disney character designers?

Another character, the aforementioned Link from the Legend of Zelda, another walking rip-off of Peter Pan. Sure you can also say, Link also looks a lot like Robinhood, but well Robin of Locksley doesn't have pointed ears and a fairy called Tinkerbelle right? Link is elfin, wears olive green drabby clothes and a bunch of fairy guides from Miff, Navi etc.

Get my point? Vector Sigma! All this talk of towing the line with copyrighted likenesses is making my head spin.

Rastamus Prime wrote:It's starting to sound like old Kennedy speaches in here. "Ask not what Takara/Hasbro can do for you, but what you can do for Takara/Hasbro."

How popular "Government Run schools" made that Kennedy speech..what is funny is if you actually pay attention to his meaning then you realize, he is saying that you need to do things for the country, and not let the country do anything for you.

However, doing the Takara/Hasbro thing.. LOL.. yeah NO! I would never just buy toys or work a job just to support toy companies that I buy from on a whim...

great quote, you sum up allot of how people tend to view Takara/Hasbro. Like in some weird way they feel like buying and supporting only their products, that they are somehow keeping these feeble and tired toy companies afloat?? It's amazingly silly..Do they not consider how much money these companies get in profit.. and by Profit that is above what it costs for employees, manufacturing, transportation, Licensing, attorney fees, and etc...

Rastamus Prime wrote:Though no one actually said it like that, that's the gist I'm getting here. I'm glad 3rd party companies are making stuff to add on, they fix T/H's mistakes, and add a custom feel to the toys, for those who can't kitbash.


In all seriousness, how many of you feel like you're getting the short end of the stick on some of the figures you buy? Unless you're buying a Masterpiece (self explanitory figure) or Binaltech/Alt, chances are, you're not getting a top quality figure. The classics and Henkeis are great, but other addons complete what I feel are incomplete figures.

So yea, 3rd party stuff is great, but it all boils down to the opinions of you guys. Are they important or necessary for your collection? I have to be honest, if you have a Classics Ultra Magnus without his armor, you're nuts for not buying him the City Commander set. And Optimus isn't really complete without his trailer.

I completely agree with this entire statement..

If you passed over the city commander figure..please, reconsider..it is truly worth it..

Oh and to seibertron, dude this is definitely the money shot here!! way ta go man!!

Chrome parts and rubber tires are great but I've heard about decay and wear of both materials that can be quite a pain. I've heard that the rubber tires on figures that are only several years old like the Robots in Disguise/Car Robots Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy tend to split without proper care. In the long run, plastic tires are better for simply not falling apart on their own. I imagine that high quality rubber and chroming applications can reduce wear and decay but that's where the price tag goes up.

It's all just a matter of opinion. I've always liked the more realistic advantage to having chrome and rubber tires. I bet I sound like a broken record, I'm sorry but being a long time model car builder and diecast collector, it just seems right for me. As for tires "splitting" I'm not sure about that. I have models dating back to 1995 and the rubber tires are in the same condition as they were 14 years ago. My guess is the RiD line must've used some bad rubber for their tires. I had a vintage Hound I bought at a yard sale a couple years loose no box, and missing excesories for $5 dollars. Paint wear, but all in all the base figure was in remarkable shape and the tires were fine. The guy said it was played with, shelved, and stored it's 20 years of existence.I've also had an Alt. Sideswipe since 2003, which has only been shelved and the tires are great.

skywarp-2 wrote:

Rastamus Prime wrote:It's starting to sound like old Kennedy speaches in here. "Ask not what Takara/Hasbro can do for you, but what you can do for Takara/Hasbro."

How popular "Government Run schools" made that Kennedy speech..what is funny is if you actually pay attention to his meaning then you realize, he is saying that you need to do things for the country, and not let the country do anything for you.

However, doing the Takara/Hasbro thing.. LOL.. yeah NO! I would never just buy toys or work a job just to support toy companies that I buy from on a whim...

great quote, you sum up allot of how people tend to view Takara/Hasbro. Like in some weird way they feel like buying and supporting only their products, that they are somehow keeping these feeble and tired toy companies afloat?? It's amazingly silly..Do they not consider how much money these companies get in profit.. and by Profit that is above what it costs for employees, manufacturing, transportation, Licensing, attorney fees, and etc...

Rastamus Prime wrote:Though no one actually said it like that, that's the gist I'm getting here. I'm glad 3rd party companies are making stuff to add on, they fix T/H's mistakes, and add a custom feel to the toys, for those who can't kitbash.


In all seriousness, how many of you feel like you're getting the short end of the stick on some of the figures you buy? Unless you're buying a Masterpiece (self explanitory figure) or Binaltech/Alt, chances are, you're not getting a top quality figure. The classics and Henkeis are great, but other addons complete what I feel are incomplete figures.

So yea, 3rd party stuff is great, but it all boils down to the opinions of you guys. Are they important or necessary for your collection? I have to be honest, if you have a Classics Ultra Magnus without his armor, you're nuts for not buying him the City Commander set. And Optimus isn't really complete without his trailer.

I completely agree with this entire statement..

If you passed over the city commander figure..please, reconsider..it is truly worth it..

Oh and to seibertron, dude this is definitely the money shot here!! way ta go man!!

Thanks. I want it, I might get it in the near future. The problem is getting a Classics Ultra Magnus, as prices have since sky-rocketed due to discontinuation and now the commander set.

Rastamus Prime wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:
If you passed over the city commander figure..please, reconsider..it is truly worth it..

Oh and to seibertron, dude this is definitely the money shot here!! way ta go man!!

Thanks. I want it, I might get it in the near future. The problem is getting a Classics Ultra Magnus, as prices have since sky-rocketed due to discontinuation and now the commander set.

your welcome man, and yeah his prices have changed quite a bit, and the set is truly amazing.. but you will still get him and the new set for less then I paid..

I bought the 2 pack for 45.00 on eBay, and the Armor for 200.00.

so now you can buy the armor for 88.00 and the figure 2 pack for 65.00 to 75.00

Still cheaper then what I paid.. and a part of me wishes I had waited..

your welcome man, and yeah his prices have changed quite a bit, and the set is truly amazing.. but you will still get him and the new set for less then I paid..

I bought the 2 pack for 45.00 on eBay, and the Armor for 200.00.

so now you can buy the armor for 88.00 and the figure 2 pack for 65.00 to 75.00

Still cheaper then what I paid.. and a part of me wishes I had waited..

Thanks, I just might look into it. Last I checked for the unopened two pack on ebay it was bidded up to $135. The figure itself loose goes for around $65. It might be a while yet, I set myself back with MP Megatron and Mp 04, so we'll see how it turns out.

How do you like yours though?

Rastamus Prime wrote:It's all just a matter of opinion. I've always liked the more realistic advantage to having chrome and rubber tires. I bet I sound like a broken record, I'm sorry but being a long time model car builder and diecast collector, it just seems right for me. As for tires "splitting" I'm not sure about that. I have models dating back to 1995 and the rubber tires are in the same condition as they were 14 years ago. My guess is the RiD line must've used some bad rubber for their tires.

Full disclosure, first. I hate chrome, because most of the time I've seen it applied, it's all worn off within a few years. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but it's common enough that want to tell Hasbro et al "don't bother."

As to rubber, I expect that the reality has to do with a LOT of factors, likely environment of where it's kept, for example, in addition to or besides the "quality of the rubber." My own experience could be used to support the "quality" argument, but it's a bit mixed. I've had G1 figures where the rubber is cracked, and G1 figures that have never had any trouble. Most, but not all, of my Action Masters have had to have their O-rings replaced after they were about 10 years old (have not yet had any trouble with the hardware-store O-rings I've replaced them with, though. I suppose I have a few more years to wait to be fair, though). My RiD Prime and Magnus both had trouble.

What does seem to help, if I can't scientifically verify it with others, is soaking rubber parts in Armor All for a few hours, letting them dry, and then putting them back on the toy. None of the tires I've ever treated in this way have been seen to deteriorate further.

For what's it worth... I now return you to your regularly-scheduled debate on 3rd party (but unofficial) merchandise.

fenrir72 wrote:You say huh? A bigtime company like Nintendo infringe on copyrights? Well for those on the know, just take a look at most of the character designs of Super Mario 3, Tanuki Mario and the rest of Mario's super forms are a direct rip-off from Disney's Peter Pan's Lost Boys. Okay, maybe Peter Pan is a public domain property (that I'm not sure), maybe not, IIRC,Disney got some agreement with the estate of the original author of Peter Pan. Are the feral designs of the Lost Boys manifested as such in the Disney big screen version graphically described in the book or a result of the creative freedom applied by the original Disney character designers?

Actually, that's not the basis of those Super Mario items at all. Study Japanese mythology a bit: Tanukis are considered mischievous spirits who can shapeshift using a leaf on their head, that's the connection. Not Peter Pan.

Another character, the aforementioned Link from the Legend of Zelda, another walking rip-off of Peter Pan. Sure you can also say, Link also looks a lot like Robinhood, but well Robin of Locksley doesn't have pointed ears and a fairy called Tinkerbelle right? Link is elfin, wears olive green drabby clothes and a bunch of fairy guides from Miff, Navi etc.

It's not a rip-off per se, but parts of Links were indeed inspired on Disney's Peter Pan, but not ripped off. Besides, he changes outfits every console generation. Also, there's enough difference between the two to tell them apart.

Put short, you're looking for connections that do not necessarily exist, and in court that's what lawyers will smack you in the face for.

And now, back to the regularly scheduled program.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:You say huh? A bigtime company like Nintendo infringe on copyrights? Well for those on the know, just take a look at most of the character designs of Super Mario 3, Tanuki Mario and the rest of Mario's super forms are a direct rip-off from Disney's Peter Pan's Lost Boys. Okay, maybe Peter Pan is a public domain property (that I'm not sure), maybe not, IIRC,Disney got some agreement with the estate of the original author of Peter Pan. Are the feral designs of the Lost Boys manifested as such in the Disney big screen version graphically described in the book or a result of the creative freedom applied by the original Disney character designers?

Actually, that's not the basis of those Super Mario items at all. Study Japanese mythology a bit: Tanukis are considered mischievous spirits who can shapeshift using a leaf on their head, that's the connection. Not Peter Pan.

In most jurisdictions (the notable exception being the UK, where Peter Pan has a possibly unique status, which explains fenrir's memory of the arrangement Disney made with the holders of those UK rights) the characters of Peter Pan are indeed in the public domain.

(Of course, if you DO mean the Disney version specifically, as opposed to the original upon which it's based, then naturally Disney's copyright would still have applied, if it were applicable to begin with)

@ GoldRabbit. I know of the tannuki's in Japanese folklore. But take a look at the design of the characters in the game and the design of the Lost Boys from the original Disney Peter Pan version. Compare and decide. That's the point I'm raising. You did take a look at the design of Mario in the Tannuki suit and the Lost Boys design? And Link again, compare it, sure it ain't the exact design but well you get my drift.

Now we can all argue the "likeness" til the sun goes nova, heck you can also argue the similarities of Kimba (the White Lion) to Simba (The Lion King) which I believe can be used as a cover in the aforementioned issue of the similarity of the upcoming Defender mold venksta raised. Henkei Sunstreaker alternate mode isn't exactly THE Lamborghini but has aspects of it that looks like a Lambhorghini. So maybe, just maybe FP can pull it off with Deefender or even the Junkion mold.

The iGear Prime though, I shudder to think what legal cover they might use.

Rastamus Prime wrote:

your welcome man, and yeah his prices have changed quite a bit, and the set is truly amazing.. but you will still get him and the new set for less then I paid..

I bought the 2 pack for 45.00 on eBay, and the Armor for 200.00.

so now you can buy the armor for 88.00 and the figure 2 pack for 65.00 to 75.00

Still cheaper then what I paid.. and a part of me wishes I had waited..

Thanks, I just might look into it. Last I checked for the unopened two pack on ebay it was bidded up to $135. The figure itself loose goes for around $65. It might be a while yet, I set myself back with MP Megatron and Mp 04, so we'll see how it turns out.

How do you like yours though?

can't really say, I took it out once when that whole thing about the KO's of the FP city commander came up, and did some pics of it with Henkei Prime.. nice too..

it's awesome!!

but it is storage now.. it's safe.. wish I could pose it and set up a display of some kind, some day..

Full disclosure, first. I hate chrome, because most of the time I've seen it applied, it's all worn off within a few years. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but it's common enough that want to tell Hasbro et al "don't bother."

As to rubber, I expect that the reality has to do with a LOT of factors, likely environment of where it's kept, for example, in addition to or besides the "quality of the rubber." My own experience could be used to support the "quality" argument, but it's a bit mixed. I've had G1 figures where the rubber is cracked, and G1 figures that have never had any trouble. Most, but not all, of my Action Masters have had to have their O-rings replaced after they were about 10 years old (have not yet had any trouble with the hardware-store O-rings I've replaced them with, though. I suppose I have a few more years to wait to be fair, though). My RiD Prime and Magnus both had trouble.

What does seem to help, if I can't scientifically verify it with others, is soaking rubber parts in Armor All for a few hours, letting them dry, and then putting them back on the toy. None of the tires I've ever treated in this way have been seen to deteriorate further.

For what's it worth... I now return you to your regularly-scheduled debate on 3rd party (but unofficial) merchandise.

And the holes are punched. Ok, so let me start by saying I've never had any problems with my chrome Transformers paint aps. Unless it undergoes various amounts of stress and wear it stays intact. And it all goes back to the chrome on my diecasts. Those ones I mentioned from 95 (my earliest) have stellar paint condition as they did when I first got them. As for tire cracks? I mean if you have rubber that cracks over time, which I rarely see unless it too is played with a lot then I suggest soaking it in oils such as olive oil or veggie oil. It restores it to brand new condition and it keeps it from drying out and cracking. It's a technique I use on my models to give the tires a fresh look. Maybe I just take excelent care of my TFs, maybe you just buy bootlegs, I don't know (Joke). But I don't have chrome deterioration nor has it ever happened to me, unless I did something stupid like drop it or bend it.