The Energon Pub

wingdarkness wrote:The truth hurts doesn’t it? Think about all the vitriol you just spat @ me and imagine me having the same amount only for Bay and those who support him unquestionably…You are me, only my frustration is focused, unlike most trolls I guess^^…

The only thing about this is that you personally attack me and my "knowledge", I really doubt Bay has had any personal attacks at you for you to form a basis on. Just as you said, What you've read on the buzz sites. And Bays posts on his own board are barely more than a sentence or two to clarify something that was misrepresented or to just add his .02

I like his movies because they are entertaining, I don't care who the person is at heart, just as long as my 12-15 dollars are worth the film that I view. I don't hold movies like transformers to some deep seeded emotional connection to my childhood, because quite frankly if you look back now at all the stuff you liked as a kid you will realize that it is not really worth the Idolism that is being placed upon it.

I liked Centurions as a kid and if they evver made a live action movie about that and it bombed would it make what I liked as a childhood any different? No.

And just because you dont like the current transformer films you would deny your child the opportunity to have a transformers associated with his childhood because you are not a fan of the director? What if your father had denied you when you were little?

Now this is not meant to aim at your parenting or anything, i am a parent as well. I let my child decide what she likes and or doesnt like.

^Hey parents aren't perfect...He's 5 anyways when he asked to see TF I just said "Pixar-Movie instead" and he comatosed back into a state of comfort...Kids pick up on things easily, he knows when I don't like $hit and I don't want him to grow up to be one of these people that just settle for anything...So when he gets of a higher age he can watch Bayformers all he wants, but while I'm still picking movies for him, it's off the list...He doesn't need to see Devestators ball$ quite yet...

Sorry you felt attacked, but it seemed to me you didn't know much about Bay, because he has the same kinda comedy in all of his movies...The black characters for instance are almost always the biggest yo-mama joke stereotypes ever...It just seemed to me like you think Bay gives a rats a$S about anything besides his way...He doesn't and he's SAID THAT...

Finally the biggest flaw in your argument is that you still think that anti-Bayformer fans wanted so much more than a movie with a good plot or script dynamic to go along with good action (Not some Oscar deep-seededness)...As if watching a monolithic army propaganda film is TF...Hell it wouldn't hurt having a memorable musical score in any Bay movie too, but that's for another thread...

I dont care to know about bay, I'm not gonna go have a beer with him at an aftrparty. I care if a movie entertains me, and these do. Plain and simple.

And If he was a hack as some say, he wouldn't be getting hired to make hundrend million dollar blockbusters. he would be doing snakes on a train part 2.

As much as you want to knock the guy you cant deny he has appeal worldwide.

And as far as sterotpyes go, watch any african american based movie, I guarantee you will think bay is light on them afterthat.

wingdarkness wrote:As if watching a monolithic army propaganda film is TF

I know. Good thing there wasn't army propaganda in the '07 movie. Unless you consider first getting slaughtered, then barely avoiding getting slaughtered, then holding a gun on a civilian to get your way, then getting slaughtered some more, then just barely winning in the end propaganda.

To all parties involved, either be civil or official warnings and the consequences will follow.

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:As if watching a monolithic army propaganda film is TF

I know. Good thing there wasn't army propaganda in the '07 movie. Unless you consider first getting slaughtered, then barely avoiding getting slaughtered, then holding a gun on a civilian to get your way, then getting slaughtered some more, then just barely winning in the end propaganda.

Yeah, whenever somebody complains about army involvement they seem to forget that Blackout single-handedly destroyed an entire military base and only five or so soldiers managed to escape. But this is entirely off-topic. Of course, Coolyfett probably predicted this would happen when he made a sarcastically insulting first post.

Autobobby1 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:As if watching a monolithic army propaganda film is TF

I know. Good thing there wasn't army propaganda in the '07 movie. Unless you consider first getting slaughtered, then barely avoiding getting slaughtered, then holding a gun on a civilian to get your way, then getting slaughtered some more, then just barely winning in the end propaganda.

Yeah, whenever somebody complains about army involvement they seem to forget that Blackout single-handedly destroyed an entire military base and only five or so soldiers managed to escape. But this is entirely off-topic. Of course, Coolyfett probably predicted this would happen when he made a sarcastically insulting first post.

And let's not forget Scorponok took out two more of those survivors before escaping.

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:As if watching a monolithic army propaganda film is TF

I know. Good thing there wasn't army propaganda in the '07 movie. Unless you consider first getting slaughtered, then barely avoiding getting slaughtered, then holding a gun on a civilian to get your way, then getting slaughtered some more, then just barely winning in the end propaganda.

Anything, all the glamor shots, all the usage of military IN ALL HIS MOVIES...Is free props for the military...It's gets lame once you see the sunset helicopter shot every movie IMO, but to each their own...He gets freebies from the military because he's the only director that whores the US military in all his movies...It is what it is...I give him credit because this and his connection with GM from his commercial days is what cuts like 50 million out of each budget and makes the white men in suits tell this tool he's a somebody...And he is, I'm just some guy that thinks he sucks (barely a 1 man party there)...LMAO, he was even head director for Propaganda Films at one time...

@Robinson - Sighs, to end our much ballyhooed debate I guess i'd say the difference between you and me is I also didn't care that much about Bay UNTIL he $hited on TF (Something I really cared about and had passion for...Obviously my opinion...Had TF entertained me instead of making me feel embarrassed and embittered maybe I'd like him...Had he not insulted me and millions of TF fans in the pre-production maybe I'd accept him bending me over...Alas that wasn't the case...Dude doesn't even like TF, I mean to look the other way on that is just like WOW for me, but many here seem not to care...

And If he was a hack as some say, he wouldn't be getting hired to make hundrend million dollar blockbusters. he would be doing snakes on a train part 2.

As much as you want to knock the guy you cant deny he has appeal worldwide.

He's considered a hack by many of his peers and the actors he's worked with (No need for me to list it all you got Google)...He's so preemptive in his dissing of any movie with brains you know it effects him...Money doesn't soften all the blows...I admit he has appeal, what guy doesn't like seeing $hit blow up with hawt chicks being banged? That doesn't mean I want TF in his hands...


P.S. - I actually like Snakes on a Plane, name me a movie that's more dedicated to it's title than that one ? LMMFAO

Yeah, whenever somebody complains about army involvement they seem to forget that Blackout single-handedly destroyed an entire military base and only five or so soldiers managed to escape. But this is entirely off-topic. Of course, Coolyfett probably predicted this would happen when he made a sarcastically insulting first post.

Forest for trees...The usage of the army in predominant roles is the propaganda...It's free publicity that otherwise wouldn't be there that helps expose a perceived image...It doesn't matter that Blackout pwns them, what matters is that bad-a$$es at the army were fighting Blackout, Skorpinok...Then later they band together to take down the bad-guys and they ultimately win...

Think about why Micheal Bay has almost unprecedented access to the military in films (far more than anyone in films)...Think hard on that, perhaps i'll be back with the answer if it still can't be figured out, since I'm the Bay troll...

I said Snakes on a Train, google it, you'll see what I mean.

Robinson wrote:I said Snakes on a Train, google it, you'll see what I mean.

So I take it you enjoyed Snakes on a Plane then^^?

EDIT: I googled it, It looks so bad it's good...Have to watch it before I can compare it with Bay's cookie-cut plots, but You may have found bay a winning matchup, lol...

wingdarkness wrote:Had he not insulted me and millions of TF fans

Assuming that the fanbase is actually that large, I'd be very surprised of that number of fans were all disappointed, and not just some of them.

wingdarkness wrote:Forest for trees...The usage of the army in predominant roles is the propaganda...It's free publicity that otherwise wouldn't be there that helps expose a perceived image...It doesn't matter that Blackout pwns them, what matters is that bad-a$$es at the army were fighting Blackout, Skorpinok...Then later they band together to take down the bad-guys and they ultimately win...

You have no clue what propaganda is, do you? Propaganda would not show the heroes getting killed, nor would it show them holding weapons on people who are supposed to be on the same side. And even so, how exactly did the military win in the end? Brawl was killed by Bumblebee, Megatron was done in by Sam, Prime, and (arguably) Starscream, and Blackout was the only one killed by anyone from the military.

Well Shadowman, I do have an English degree hanging on the wall in my study, not that that means much based on my constant spellchecking^^, but I do know one thing about the word "Propaganda" it doesn't just mean showing the army in a favorable light from the movie-script aspect, but also from a point of exposure in a blockbuster movie itself...All it means is to spread negative or positive ideas about something...


"The army is an adventure where there may be a sci-fi element involving metal bugs where we're gonna need your help..." That can be obtuse or downright subliminal (Again you have to keep this in the context that Bay FEATURES and glorifies stuff like this IN ALL his movies, not just isolated)...The army wouldn't let Bay have this much access (Where he can save like 50 mil a film) if they didn't benefit from the exposure...C'mon now...The army's entire ad-efforts over the last decade have been about turning it into a cool adventure, getting fringe people like gamers and extreme-sports goers and appealing to them in those terms...If you look at what the army does in TF as the whole pie you might get a push, but it's just 1 slice of the pie when it comes to Bay's movies...

wingdarkness wrote:Again you have to keep this in the context that Bay FEATURES and glorifies stuff like this

Glorifies? I again point you to the army being repeatedly slaughtered by the Decepticons.

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:Again you have to keep this in the context that Bay FEATURES and glorifies stuff like this

Glorifies? I again point you to the army being repeatedly slaughtered by the Decepticons.

Dude your just playing semantics...The point is he puts the military in all his movies which is undoubtedly beneficial to them because this is something that isn't easily done for most movies...The US military is always fighting tooth and nail about how they are being portrayed in movies that's why most directors spend money on faux-military usage because of the limited access (Thatsomehow Bay easily has)...Again I'm not hating on him for cutting corners or whoring out the military to sunset backgrounds every movie, just that it gets lame after a while to see the exact same $hit every movie...I knew I'd see the same thing in TF1, it's one of the many Bayisms I feared, but didn't care that much about until I KNEW he was gonna do it in TF...

Any American movie that shows anything to do with the U.S. military is going to show them in a positive light. Not just Bay's movies.

wingdarkness wrote: Dude doesn't even like TF, I mean to look the other way on that is just like WOW for me, but many here seem not to care...

If he truly didn't care, he wouldn't have changed the design of Optimus face after the out right protest of "Fans". He wouldn't have changed Sound wave to Frenzy based on the opinions of "fans". He wouldn't have brought in Peter Cullen, for Prime's voice, and Frank welker for Soundwave.
IN all honesty, all i get from your post, is your mad cause the franchise you have devoted so much time and money to in the last 25yrs wasn't made in the fashion you wanted it to be. I've said it before, and I'll say it again..
Being a fan of the source material does not make or mean a movie is going to be any better than a director that isn't. Another thing that's been bugging me...
I hear a lot of complaining about bay not giving "The fans" a good story/plot and sub-par acting.
I'm sorry, but i have yet to see ANY TF series with any kind of master full plot or in depth story line. All were corny, cheesy, and lacked any real depth. TF for the most part has always been about the toys. Whether or not many will or won't agree, but G1 was the worst of all. So why all of a sudden do many feel the movie should have been any better? Cause it was a live action movie? Cause of the budget? Not trying to cut down any so called "Hard core fans", but i think your the product of your own undoing. To me, all this bitching and complaining about Bay and the Movies just says that you never truly have been happy investing all this time and money in your childhood cartoon. Its almost like you felt the movie would justify this. Now this is just my opinion of course. But in all honesty, when i read things like this...

wanting a movie beyond a generic generality, if wanting to take my son to something that we could connect with based on what TF meant to me as a child, if THAT is being High and Mighty, then tea and crumpet my a$$ with the quickness…

Here you say you want something to connect with your own child. You want to justify to him why you've invested all your time and money. My question is, why not just show him your the G1 series, or another other TF series? Or does he loose interest 5 minutes into the first episode?
I'm not bashing, hounding, or ragging on the fact that you don't like Bay or the movies. But i just don't get why you and many other so called "Hard core fans" felt like this movie should have so how broken the mold in terms of action, script and acting when the source material lacked all of this.

Me personally, i think bay and the writers/producers, did a great job considering what they had to work with! J/K. But really, they gave us a new universe with great new designs (yes i know that's just my opinion, but many here seem to share that as well)and let us see them like we've never seen them before. Kudos to you and your team Mr. Bay.