The Energon Pub

[Iron Prime]

It doesn't take a Prime to kill another Prime. It takes a Prime to kill the Fallen.

But in the movie-universe The Fallen is an ancient Prime. I believe that is what he was talking about.

[Areec&Firecat]

The new movie was great and all but it was fucast on sam not Prime or his autobuts so where the story all I saw was things blowing up and unless you read the prequle to the movie you had know idea what was going on in the movie so now what happens next?

[Counterpunch]

The new movie was great and all but it was fucast on sam not Prime or his autobuts so where the story all I saw was things blowing up and unless you read the prequle to the movie you had know idea what was going on in the movie so now what happens next?

I entirely disagree with you.

[Prime Riblet]

It doesn't take a Prime to kill another Prime. It takes a Prime to kill the Fallen.

But in the movie-universe The Fallen is an ancient Prime. I believe that is what he was talking about.

Exactly. In this movie universe, the Fallen is one of the 7 original Primes. The other 6 gave their lives to hide the Matrix. That leaves the Fallen as one, and there is Optimus as the other. The movie is pretty succinct in saying that only a Prime can Kill another Prime. Megatron is not a Prime as far as any of us know.

As far as Jetfire and Starscream, it doesn't matter if there is a connection in the movie universe or not. If they had a battle in RoTF, then it could have been a good nod to G1. If not meant as a nod to G1, it could have at least served in explaining why Jetfire just suddenly wants to kill himself out of the blue to give his parts to Optimus. He was old, but he was kicking ass. If there was some sort of fight between JF and SS, then Jetfire may have been damaged beyond repair and have an actual reason for letting go. There were just a few fairly obvious ways to make that whole progression better, that's all.

[Predaprince]

It doesn't take a Prime to kill another Prime. It takes a Prime to kill the Fallen.

But in the movie-universe The Fallen is an ancient Prime. I believe that is what he was talking about.

So, that isn't what was stated. Jetfire stated that it takes a Prime to kill the Fallen. It is true that the Fallen was once a Prime, but he was more powerful than the average Prime. It took those other six Primes just to stop him the first time.

[Senor Hugo]

I've seen the movie twice so far.

After thinking about the movie from all viewpoints as a fan, as a movie-buff, and as your average joe. I only enjoyed it from one of those viewpoints.

And let me clarify, by Average Joe I mean the type of person who overly enjoys dick and fart jokes and doesn't understand any other type of humor, watches the Hills, thinks Sarah Palin is hot. Basically, that frat-guy from ROTF who couldn't find a tighter shirt.

Actually, if I was 8 years old, I probably would have loved this movie as well. But then again you're "average joe" has the mental level of an 8 year old, so make of it what you will.

I really did dislike his movie, from all the things that were finally done right. So so much was done wrong. Not just a TF fan standpoint. But an movie standpoint.

I won't bother going into all the problems with this movie, as everyone has already mentioned it. It's the Episode 1 of Transformers. Only with giant robotic Jar Jar.

But I will say this. I sincerely hope that we don't get a third TF movie, and if we do, someone close to the movie dies so it can't be produced. Or some horrible apocalypse saves us from the inevitable piece of @#$% that will be the third movie.


...I never thought I'd see the day when I wish for the extinction of humanity to stop a movie.

[Flare]

I didn't read any prequels or research the movie before going to see it. And I was able to catch on to what was happening. However, I did need to research a little later on after seeing the movie to find out the names to many Decepticons who appeared and weren't introduced properly. Especially the concept of Alice. I wasn't too versed in a "Pretender" but had previous knowledge to the Beast Wars and how those transformers were able to take on animal/insect "Organic" tissue as their Alt mode. Have you ever seen Beast Wars? Optimus Primal's alt mode was the Gorilla. Since science considers apes our cousins, it shouldn't be too hard for a Transformer to take on a "Human" Alt mode as a disguise. I thought the action was great also. I may have to see it many more times to catch the things I may have missed the first time. And I definitely want to see it on a IMAX screen. *crosses fingers*

[Renne]

It seemed like he was kicking major butt, and then he just decided to kill himself and give up his parts-out of the blue, from out of nowhere.

Perhaps you missed the part where Scorponok decided that it would be awesome if Jetfire had a great gaping hole right through his torso and Jetfire was dying?

[Gone]

Let's just face it, rotf was an average movie compared to what it could have been. I'm sure I don't have to post the reasons anymore. Prime didn't have to die it just made part of the movie not make any sense. don't get me started on character development. .

[wingdarkness]

I'm confused. Are you upset with how the Matrix looked or with the fact that it's called "The Matrix of Leadership" and you think that sounds dumb? Cause it was in the original cartoon movie and it was able to defeat Unicron despite how small and non-terrifying that it looked. So, this idea of the "Matrix of Leadership" is not new to the TF lore. Bay and the writers likely included it to please the hardcore fans -- yet still some of those fans don't like it. He can never win, can he?

See you don't get it, this is not about Bay winning or losing...I'm sure many who hated the movie did but if you liked it you probably won't feel this...The matrix of leadership is just that (A Matrix of freaking Leadership!)...It holds the knowledge and power of leaders' past and all that jazz, but in Bay's interpretation of things it's just another instrument, another weapon to bludgeon the opponent, this mystical evil power wielded by The Fallen... It's not described in any depth in-terms of what it really is...That's why it's stupid, because something some evil guy would get wouldn't be called this...It's just like I said, Bay does $hit because he can, not because it'll make sense... This has more to do with the characterization of the item than what it really is...I rather you don't include the MOL if you're gonna just turn it into a sun harvester or whatever used by The Fallen...

I mean you know what a "Matrix" is right? Now what is explained about that item that has anything to do with a matrix (Which can even be a collective afterlife for Transformers)?? Eventhough this is a very easy and initial thought that came to my mind while viewing it many will crap on me for over-thinking this, because I'm suppose to shut my brain off and accept it just cause Bay wanted to put it in the movie...

What was that all about? (The Eddie Gordo stuff)

Go play Tekken, choose Eddie Gordo (Tiger), then re-watch fights from TF 1 and 2 where a million pound bots do mostly what he does--random jumping, spinning, and twirling...For once I'd like to see a great 1 v1 fight instead of 100 TFs doing random stuff you can't even makeout, nevermind appreciating it... (Barricade vs. Bumblebee still is my fav fight, because it is the only fight that actually ignores Bay's rules)...

In the cartoon, Prime was leader after Alpha Trion, so why can't we accept that Megatron followed after a previous leader, The Fallen -- who by the way was in TF lore in some comics. His look is supposed to tie into the Egyptian history I'd guess which makes sense to me with the whole pharoah look. Obviously you likely didn't like most of the movie designs from TF1 & TF2 -- so I'm assuming your review of the first TF movie (2007) was also a star or two lower due to your unacceptance of the TFs look. Fine -- it's your opinion -- but to make it #1 on your list makes me question your openess to the movie before you even saw it.

I agree that I expected the Fallen to be a little more powerful, but let's remember that he was older than dirt and yet was still was lightning fast. Got to give him some credit for that...

I don't care that Megatron was following him, I was upset that he was virtually meaningless to the plot and he got his a$$ spanked rather quickly for being what is called the TITLE CHARACTER (I'd say that was a #1 concern)...Yeah he was ugly like every bot in the pic not named Optimus or Bumblebee, but he didn't come off as anything more than a prop used to get the TF to have a final battle...Why not have 1 SCENE where the Fallen maybe encounters some autobots and asserts his dominance to give the audience something to look forward to once he has the real fight, but we're suppose to believe because some killerbot bashes a few tribe-people over the head (Something mudflap and Skids could have done in car-mode just running these people over), because of this he's the bada$$ of all bada$$ess? He fell flat which is a classic no-no for a main villain in pretty much any movie...

Bay gave us 40 TFs cause the hardcore fans wanted more TFs than what we got in the first movie. We should realize that more TFs will mean less characterization for most of them. Again, he apparently can't please everyone.

Again refer to the Jeff Goldblum quote from Jurassic Park..Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD...Forget less characterization there is no characterization from anyone other than the Fugly Twins, Jetfire, and probably Starscream...BumbleBee doesn't say jack (for reasons so unknown it would require another thread to discuss it) and Prime is reliant on his last movie characterization...Why would I care that anyone dies if I have been introduced to no one and just see them as fodder flying across the screen?? Again this movie had more than enuff bull$hit to cut time and replace it with maybe 10 mins where like 5 of the new 40 TF's introduce themselves to Sam or the Army captain...

This is the $hit that burns me because Bayformerlovers wanna always bash the G1 cartoon as some out of date crap that could never be turned into a movie when one of the strongest parts of that show was the characterizations of each and every robot...I have all the eps on my CPU and can click on a random ep that gives more insight into these bots than both of these movies put together...Some of the greatest stuff with the constructicons was how they treated each other and how funny they were not that they could just combine (and in this movie boy do they combine, right into a hideous fanfic nightmare)...Bay seems to think just because I see a concrete-truck with a decepticon decal he's filled the G1 cup, when he really hasn't put a drip in it...He's so using us, and so many choose to ignore it, but that's my deal I guess...

If they cut out the scenes you're mentioning, there'd be less characterization than what it already had which would just make more fans irate. So, come on...

Less than zero is still pretty much zero...

[Prime Riblet]

It seemed like he was kicking major butt, and then he just decided to kill himself and give up his parts-out of the blue, from out of nowhere.

Perhaps you missed the part where Scorponok decided that it would be awesome if Jetfire had a great gaping hole right through his torso and Jetfire was dying?

Actually, I did kind of miss that. Ha ha. Well, that helps me understand it a little better. Sorry guys. Definitely explains why he "suddenly" wanted to give up his life to help Prime. My bad.

[Friend of Da Panda Symbol]

Once again, Le Bay disses the v/as in the end credits not one v/a interspersed with human cast--they are after some people behind the scene. At the least v/a legend Frank Welker should have be there if no one else! Is there a movie poster that watercolor listed the v/a's at the bottom FRIST? Really I'd like to know so I can buy it. 4 me Prime and the battles was that film—for those reasons and Welker's reviving Soundwave's emotionless speech pattern I'd view it an additional 5 times.

Mikeala's put in white tight capris, short short white dress and Daisy Dukes respectively there's paying writers for a incoherent plot but it appeared to me not a penny's employed renting a synthesizer in order to provide the Soundwave ear candy, second to Oppy's, I know and love. First words from “Soundwave” wanted to jump up yelling “Bay, you idiot!”

How about Shia and Megan v/a as robot brother and sister? No crapfest for a love story, pleeeezee for part 3.

Stop Wreck-Gar's redux vocal mess with Bumblebee and hire hire some guy, who by the way he's still alive named Dan Gilvazen.

[Kibble]

Adding to the amusing "why" theme...if only a Prime can kill The Fallen, why did it take Prime all of 8 seconds to kill this unstoppable force of evil? Couldn't say Bumblebee, who effortlessly took out Rampage and Ravage at the same time or tossed the Jar Jar twins (who were able to go toe to toe with Devastator) aside like rag dolls, have fought The Fallen for like 16 or 24 seconds and come out victorious? Even if powered up Prime is the biggest badass in all the universe, you would think if The Fallen were anywhere near force they were trying to build him up as, he would at least put up a bit of a fight...

[SEOSubmitterCom]

so i saw the movie. i think the idea for the story it good but could of been way better.

-soundwave really had no part
-devastator was completely screwed up i think. meaning that there should have been a fight seen where Scavenger, Hightower, Long Haul, Mixmaster, Overload, Rampage, and Scrapper were getting their asses kicked then they form devastator and kick the autobots butt..
-the twins were cool. not racist at all. would anyone have said anything if they were trailer trash bots? just sayn
-megatron called the fallen master!!!??? never in a million years would that ever happen.

i honestly think it had something to do with the writers strike. there could have more way more bots if the script was organized correctly

i hope to see in tf3;unicron, omega supreme, a head master, ultra magnus, rodimus (hot rod), grimlock & slag, devastator again, a bigger part for sound wave, personally i want to see sound wave kicking the sh!t out of starscream for being an idiot or betraying megatron. that would be cool.

i dont know...there is so much to write about for the next. just hope it's better than ROTF.

other than that i'd see it again. maybe its one of those movies you have to watch more than once to like it even more!

[Evil_the_Nub]

I think the Matrix was pretty close to what it was in G1. When Sam died he went in the Matrix(not Transformer heaven like some people think) and met the Primes of the past who chose him worthy of it. It holds the past primes and it chooses who to give it's power to. Sounds pretty close to what it was in G1 to me.

[hugoace]

Aside from the fight scenes, I hate to say that this movie sucked major Devastator balls. I'm reading a lot of these posts and it just looks like people are liking it JUST because there are Transformers in it. Yes, the Transformers look great. No, it's not a good movie. I watched it twice just to make sure my feelings about ROTF were spot on.

How bad do I think it is? I liken the progression of the franchise to another franchise....Batman. Bay is Schumacher. The first Transformers was a better film than ROTF like Batman Forever was a better film than Batman & Robin. Yes, ROTF is Batman & Robin.

[wingdarkness]

I think the Matrix was pretty close to what it was in G1. When Sam died he went in the Matrix(not Transformer heaven like some people think) and met the Primes of the past who chose him worthy of it. It holds the past primes and it chooses who to give it's power to. Sounds pretty close to what it was in G1 to me.

The Matrix of leadership HAS NEVER BEEN an evilguy weapon key or something that powers a device that blows up Suns for energon...Not in any G1 stuff I've ever watched...It certainly wasn't shown to be what it really was when Fallen was whipping a$$ on those Jonney Quest reject tribes with the other Primes around (They weren't "IN" the matrix, so what was the matrix before they were inside of it eh? I'm being rhetorical as it's obviously one of the million plotholes)...

They tried to clean it up in the end I guess (as if letting a human travel into the collective consciousness of the matrix ever happened or that would make more sense than letting Optimus go there)but they never explained it in the beginning other than using it so random fan Q can say, "See he put the matrix of leadership in the movie stoopid geewunners..."But I don't know maybe once again I'm using the cardinal sin of thinking when it comes to this movie...

[Renne]

I'm reading a lot of these posts and it just looks like people are liking it JUST because there are Transformers in it.

Yeah, no.

[5150 Cruiser]

I'm reading a lot of these posts and it just looks like people are liking it JUST because there are Transformers in it.

Yeah, no.

And so what if someof us did like it just cause there were TF in it? IS that a bad thing?
I'm with Renne that to me it was more. I liked the story,TF designs and characterand incredible action and fight scenes. While not perfect, it was well done.

[5150 Cruiser]

Again refer to the Jeff Goldblum quote from Jurassic Park..Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD...

This is awesome!! You compare a quote about whether or not humanity should recreate Dinosaurs, to a TF movie!! This is great!! I laughed so hard when i read this i almost pooped!

Forget less characterization there is no characterization from anyone other than the Fugly Twins, Jetfire, and probably Starscream...BumbleBee doesn't say jack (for reasons so unknown it would require another thread to discuss it) and Prime is reliant on his last movie characterization...Why would I care that anyone dies if I have been introduced to no one and just see them as fodder flying across the screen??

Though they don't go into depth, Megan Fox said in the movie that BB was still having problems with his voice. As for no Characterization for him and Prime, i can't completely agree with that. Yes, both did play off their characters intros from the first film, witch in all fairness was just fine. A new intro for either would have been wasted time. Prime more than established that his role was the leader of the autobots, as did BB that he was still Sam's protector. What more do you want? A doctor Phil interview? I mean com'on, at this point do you really need a full intro? I took my parents to see this, and even they (who had nearly no knowledge of TF) caught on to the roles of both Prime and BB.

This is the $hit that burns me because Bayformerlovers wanna always bash the G1 cartoon as some out of date crap that could never be turned into a movie when one of the strongest parts of that show was the characterizations of each and every robot...

Would i like to see Characterization of every single robot that is introduced in the movie verse? Of course. Who wouldn't? Will that ever happen? Absolutely not. Why? Money, plot, and time. TO be honest, you really can't compare G1 verse in terms of Character development to the movies anyways. Why? Cause the Characters in G1 were introduced in a full season. Not a 2 hour movie. Not only that, but the entire movie was animated vs. live action humans and CGI bots. Money and time just won't allow the amount of bots and characterization that I'm sure everyone would love. (yes, I'll include myself in this category). But it is what it is. As much as you don't think so, i still think Bay and Company did a far better job this time around trying to appease fans with more bots, more character development (yes, there was loads of it, just not in certain bots, or in the way you would have liked)and still keep the action he's known for.

If they cut out the scenes you're mentioning, there'd be less characterization than what it already had which would just make more fans irate. So, come on...

Less than zero is still pretty much zero...[/quote]

Again, i just don't agree with this. There was plenty, just not in the fashion you wanted to see.

I have to say, though we may not see eye to eye on this particular matter, i like your style. You definitely do a far better job of debating your topics than most of the "Movie/bay haters" I have to give you kudos for that.

[Rock Sexton]

Being that many are not actually allowed to dislike the film, I expect all positive reviews, it is the safe thing to do. Realistically though, the film wasn't all that great. Many of the experts dislike the film. I was a fan of the concept back in 2005, but then things really went down hill. It is sad that honesty must remain muffled for 'our great popcorn movie" People want very badly to reprogram the thoughts on individuals. Subject A likes TF2, Subject B does not, Subject C, D & G gang up on Subject B for not agreeing with them. I remember it happening in 2007, it also seems to be happening now. I know the real Transformer fans are disappointed, but ....s are right, there is nothing that can be done about this disaster.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I've never seen anything like this before. A patently AWFUL film being torn to shreds by critics and yet there's a mass of the general population who's actually amused by the film to the point where they're rating it 10/10 or calling it better than the first. I spent the last two years thinking I was going to get one of those epic sequels like Empire Strikes Back....... man was I let down. I honestly was so disappointed that I was filled with red hot rage. I had gone to the midnight premier and I assure you I couldn't sleep when I got home. I don't think a movie has ever evoked those kinds of emotions out of me.

What's driving me even more crazy is this assertion that it's a "summer popcorn flick". Look people, I get that. I've enjoyed many of those in my time and the irony is I spent nearly 2 hours in line waiting for the midnight premier trying to convince my buddy that the early reviews of the movie were wrong.......that they didn't know how to "watch" this film. I found the plot points insulting. I really did. It felt like Michael Bay thought I was a moron and would accept any explanation of why things are happening as legitimate. We're supposed to suspend our disbelief, but this is way beyond that. This is suspending your brain to the point where you've transformed into one of the characters in Mike Judge's sad, but true "Ideocracy" ......The Constructicons that formed Devastator were both climbing the pyramid and fighting individually at the same time. I don't accept this phony excuse some are making by saying there were various sets of Constructo's. Nowhere in the story is this established and it's a reaching explanation. Wasn't it amazing how Jetfire walked out of the Smithsonian in Washington DC out into the desert and mountains of the southwest?

There's an expression in film called "Deus Ex Machina" ....... meaning a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty. The entire film is riddled with it. There's only so many convenient plot points one can handle before it starts to become childish and lazy. Case in point - Transformer Heaven. I mean c'mmooooooooon.

Speaking of "riddled with" .......this film is infested with comic relief. How many characters is required for a few chuckles in a movie? And the comic relief was borderline vulgar for a movie that is marketed towards children. I don't know how anybody can deny that. Look I'm a huge fan of obnoxious, vulgar comedies. You're talking to a guy who saw "The Hangover" three times in the theater.... love Van Wilder.... etc etc ..... but this is supposed to be Transformers. I can't believe Steven Spielberg attached his name to this kind of filth. Tiny robots shooting with their phallus-gun, dogs humping, cursing, giant robot testicles, Turturo's hairy, wrinkled butt, Mikaela falling face down on Leo's crotch, Leo rolling around in his boxers with the guy he tasered ........ I honestly felt like I was being tea-bagged the entire film.

Speaking of Spielberg.........the fact that he wasn't the executive producer on this is the very reason it fell flat on it's face from a coherent movie perspective. Steven was the master and Bay was his dog on a leash. Well Steven let him off and this is the quality control we got. The movie felt schizophrenic. It's like one minute we're running, there's a fight, then we're supposed to laugh, then all of the sudden we're supposed to get emotional because Prime died, and then comes another comic relief character to spit his pitifully immature nonsense. If a movie could ever roid rage, this would be the end-result.

This movie is also what happens when you have too many characters. Too much goes undeveloped and left to be accepted "as is". The movie's two largest and most physically imposing characters (Devastator and Demolisher) are taken down with the greatest of ease. Megatron, who smacked Prime around in TF1, was neutered in this one. The Fallen was supposed to be this God amongst robots and he's absolutely manhandled by Prime and his spare parts of some rusty Scottish robot Jetfire. They wasted appearances by characters like Jolt and Sideswipe, which was a huge mistake. Those guys were so freaking cool it was ridiculous and we get all of 5 seconds worth of them....and yet Michael's most racist stereotypes ever Mudflap and Skids occupy a ton of screen time.

As you can see, I was plenty pissed. The CGI was stellar when things weren't moving, but this movie still suffers from the blur factor anytime robots are interacting at quick speeds....which is why their designs are too over-complicated. Bleh. I gotta stop. It's been almost a week and I'm still seething.

[Renne]

I spent the last two years thinking I was going to get one of those epic sequels like Empire Strikes Back...

On a scale of one to hilarious, this has to be my favourite comment hands down from anyone's review.

[Rock Sexton]

I spent the last two years thinking I was going to get one of those epic sequels like Empire Strikes Back...

On a scale of one to hilarious, this has to be my favourite comment hands down from anyone's review.

Can't tell if you're meaning to be offensive..........Not that I care...... but I can't believe I ever fooled myself into thinking that. WTF was I thinking? This is Michael Bay we're talking about here.

[Rock Sexton]

I think ROTF could possibly be the greatest movie ever. It's a lock for a clean sweep in probably every category at this years Oscars.

Awesome. Michael Bay, I want to have your children. Obviously all the haters on here are just jealous of you brilliance.

Wow.

This is what scares me about society. We've got people running around believing your can spend your bankrupted self into prosperity and that that this movie was the greatest film of all time.

[Renne]

I think ROTF could possibly be the greatest movie ever. It's a lock for a clean sweep in probably every category at this years Oscars.

Awesome. Michael Bay, I want to have your children. Obviously all the haters on here are just jealous of you brilliance.

Wow.

This is what scares me about society. We've got people running around believing your can spend your bankrupted self into prosperity and that that this movie was the greatest film of all time.

Oh honey. Even I recognise that that's sarcasm.


Seriously though, as per my previous comment, did you really, honestly, whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god think it was going to be a sequel on a par with Empire Strikes Back?