The Energon Pub

by **Rat Convoy** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:13 pm

It seems to me that most of my recharge time results are now useless, as most of the weapons have been speeded up considerably. I may spend time trying to nail down the recharge rates on the short recharge weapons at one point or another, but it seems to me as they stand now that all the recharge rates are short enough that they don't really matter. Which, I think, is a good thing.

by **Rat Convoy** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:02 pm

The Energo Sword rocks. There was no purpose to it when the BBs were still uber, but now it's a pretty good weapon.

by **Dr. Caelus** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:21 pm

Energo Sword not sucking.

by **Rat Convoy** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:23 am

Found someone with Grenades.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=19372

http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=17868

http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=19043

Guessing it's a 30 second recharge. Puny damage, though.

by **Rat Convoy** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:03 pm

More results:

I'm having a hard time believing this one... Photon Eliminator Rifle used at 13 seconds and still apparantly not recharged TWO MINUTES LATER...
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12693

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess 120 seconds for the Photon Eliminator Rifle. This thing is a dud and a half and I'm sick of using it.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12797

Maceration Laser longer than 14 seconds, less than 28.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=13360

Maceration Laser longer than 17 seconds, less than 25.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=13499

Fusion Cannon longer than 74 seconds, less than 90... What was whoever designed this piece of garbage thinking?
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=13672

Maceration Laser recharge is 24 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=13699

Domesticated Kremzeek more than 89 seconds, less than 116.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=13910

Fusion Cannon recharge is 90 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=13910
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=14030

Rocket Propelled Mortar Shells recharge is 60 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=14207

Longest recharge I've seen yet on Double-Barrelled Crystallizer Cannon.. Has to be longer than two-and-a-half minutes... Definitely not worth tracking to closer once you get that far out, just classify it as "longer than hell." Longer than 143 seconds and less than 170.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=14351

Another Crystallizer Cannon result - this arena bout literally wasn't long enough to fire the weapon again. Think I'm going to declare it 150 seconds and call it a day.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=15059

Domesticated Kremzeek recharge is 90 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=15427

Hydro Cyclone Cannon recharge is 36 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=15523

X-Ray Laser Cannon recharge is 60 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=15574

Plasma Sphere Shooter recharge is 30 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=15665

by **Rat Convoy** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:06 pm

Caelus wrote:
Rat Convoy wrote:I've gone through everyone's entries and here's where we stand on recharge rates:
X-Ray Laser: Longer than 27, less than 38 seconds
Sword: Longer than 23 seconds.
Direct-Current Electrical Laser: 60 seconds
Rocket Launcher: 60 seconds.
Black Magic: 42 seconds
Augmented Quark Disrupters: 36 seconds
Electric Cannon: 36 seconds
Dol-Laser Rifle: 30 seconds
Energon Crossbow: 30 seconds
Laser Pistol: 30 seconds
Laser-Blazer Broadsword: 24 seconds
Metallikato Blade: 24 seconds
Double-Barrelled Plasma Shell Shotgun: 18 seconds
Dual Slime Lasers: 18 seconds
Energo-Sword: 18 seconds
Battle Blades: 12 seconds

This is actually scarily accurate.

Figuring recharge rates is just simple observation. Now, when I start figuring damages... THAT's going to be the trick. I'm good with numbers but never had patience for complicated math.

by **Dr. Caelus** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:46 pm

Rat Convoy wrote:I've gone through everyone's entries and here's where we stand on recharge rates:
X-Ray Laser: Longer than 27, less than 38 seconds
Sword: Longer than 23 seconds.
Direct-Current Electrical Laser: 60 seconds
Rocket Launcher: 60 seconds.
Black Magic: 42 seconds
Augmented Quark Disrupters: 36 seconds
Electric Cannon: 36 seconds
Dol-Laser Rifle: 30 seconds
Energon Crossbow: 30 seconds
Laser Pistol: 30 seconds
Laser-Blazer Broadsword: 24 seconds
Metallikato Blade: 24 seconds
Double-Barrelled Plasma Shell Shotgun: 18 seconds
Dual Slime Lasers: 18 seconds
Energo-Sword: 18 seconds
Battle Blades: 12 seconds

This is actually scarily accurate. :shock:

by **Rat Convoy** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:59 am

Caelus wrote:
Rat Convoy wrote:Seconds. I can't "see" rounds in the battle results, so I need to go by the only time measurement I CAN see in the battle logs, which is seconds. And so far, all the recharge rates I've arrived at are divisible by six. I'd like to know if that follows for all weapons, as it will save me a square ton of time in the early going (cause sooner or later I'm going to have enough raw data to know for sure whether or not they are all divisible by six anyway).

Thanks for any help you can give me, Caelus.

Well, recharge rates are pretty screwy (as Tammuz would be quick to point out), and are, I believe, programmed in "rounds". And I think each action performed in the game is one "round".

The catch however, is that on average a round seems to last 6 seconds (general observation and second hand info, haven't done the math myself), so if you calculate recharge times in seconds, stuff should come out in multiples of six.

I'm not 100% certain on this though. But then, if I knew for sure I'd be less inclined to share details...

Cool. Thanks Caelus. I pretty much was already figuring that was the case, but having some extra confirmation about it means I don't need to feel nervous that I'm jumping to too broad an assumption too quickly.

This will save me some time. Means I've got recharges on 14 weapons instead of just 8 and can move onto the next ones.

BTW, if anyone's interested, I've been keeping a constantly updated tally of said recharge rates in a post at the bottom of the 1st page of this thread. It's to the point it should be helpful to people making weapon selections.

by **Dr. Caelus** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:12 am

Rat Convoy wrote:Seconds. I can't "see" rounds in the battle results, so I need to go by the only time measurement I CAN see in the battle logs, which is seconds. And so far, all the recharge rates I've arrived at are divisible by six. I'd like to know if that follows for all weapons, as it will save me a square ton of time in the early going (cause sooner or later I'm going to have enough raw data to know for sure whether or not they are all divisible by six anyway).

Thanks for any help you can give me, Caelus.

Well, recharge rates are pretty screwy (as Tammuz would be quick to point out), and are, I believe, programmed in "rounds". And I think each action performed in the game is one "round".

The catch however, is that on average a round seems to last 6 seconds (general observation and second hand info, haven't done the math myself), so if you calculate recharge times in seconds, stuff should come out in multiples of six.

I'm not 100% certain on this though. But then, if I knew for sure I'd be less inclined to share details... :-P

by **Rat Convoy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:28 pm

Caelus wrote:
Rat Convoy wrote:I'm noticing that of the five weapons I have exact recharge times for, the recharge rates are all multiples of six. Does this hold true for all the weapons?

Well, since I don't want to give to much away with an answer, let me ask you: Are your recharge rates in rounds or seconds?

And the Megaton Battle Sword seems to be okay, btw.

Seconds. I can't "see" rounds in the battle results, so I need to go by the only time measurement I CAN see in the battle logs, which is seconds. And so far, all the recharge rates I've arrived at are divisible by six. I'd like to know if that follows for all weapons, as it will save me a square ton of time in the early going (cause sooner or later I'm going to have enough raw data to know for sure whether or not they are all divisible by six anyway).

Thanks for any help you can give me, Caelus.

by **Dr. Caelus** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:56 pm

Rat Convoy wrote:I'm noticing that of the five weapons I have exact recharge times for, the recharge rates are all multiples of six. Does this hold true for all the weapons?

Well, since I don't want to give to much away with an answer, let me ask you: Are your recharge rates in rounds or seconds?

And the Megaton Battle Sword seems to be okay, btw.

by **Rat Convoy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:45 pm

I'm starting a comparison of two bots utilizing Battle Blades vs. the same two bots utilizing their bare fists. Hoping to disprove a theory I have.

EDIT: Ugh, OS just changed brawling damage, all these results are useless, so *snip*
Just have to keep telling myself that lower brawling damage is a good thing so I don't think about all the time I just wasted...

by **Rat Convoy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:11 pm

Can a Mod or someone in the know answer a simple yes/no question that will save me a lot of work?

I'm noticing that of the five weapons (EDITED TO ADD: make that six weapons, I'm pretty close to taking it as a given that this is the case whether I get this question answered or not) I have exact recharge times for, the recharge rates are all multiples of six. Does this hold true for all the weapons? This would mean all I would need to do is track down a range smaller than six and I would know the recharge, rather than trying to find logs that show me the number down to the last second.

by **Phasewing** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:51 am

http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... on_id=9725
I like energy shurikens, goes along well with Kunoichi's name origin..

She didn't do too bad, not outrageously killing anyone... o_O

by **Windracer** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:30 pm

Rat Convoy wrote:I saw one of your bots using an Energo-Sword, too, didn't I, Windy? I'd like to see any results you have with that, as well. Thanks.

Caelus has posted his own results, and yes, I do have one equipped to Aquila just to break up the monotony. Unfortunately I've only had one mission that I could really see it in action so far...

http://seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/vie ... on_id=8206
-29% Dmg at 00:07 against a level 4 that is probably wearing Crystalline, and has 4 pts in END
-22% Dmg to the same TF at 01:11
-26% at 01:33 to a level 5 that likely has Ceramic + 6 pts in END.
- at least another 22% hit at 2:08 to the same level 4. 36 second recharge?

And while I'm here:
Trying out Energy Shurikens...
25% hit @ 1:09 to a l. 5 with 2 END and possibly some Iron armor
14% hit @ 2:11 to a l. 6 with 5 END and likely Crystalline
And Again
7% hit @ 0:29 to a l. with 8 END and either Nucleon Tempered Titanium or Neutronium

Yeah...not spectacular. But they just sound so cool that I really don't care.

by **Dr. Caelus** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:09 pm

Rat Convoy wrote:The Metallikato Blade continues to impress

:Feels small amount of pride.:

I didn't get to input it myself, but it was my suggestion. :grin:

by **Rat Convoy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:53 pm

Caelus wrote:
Rat Convoy wrote:I saw one of your bots using an Energo-Sword, too, didn't I, Windy? I'd like to see any results you have with that, as well. Thanks.

Cruellock's been using one for ages.

I'll retrieve his most recent records.

Whiff.
One hit.
One hit.
Two hits.

The Energo Sword looks good on paper, but it's never worked that well for me, even now that it's not contending with BBs. Cruellock has had it purely for character reasons.

Actually, it looks fairly damaging and it's quick to recharge... Definitely seems an improvement on Black Magic.

And thanks to both you and Windy, I've narrowed down the recharge rates on the Energo-Sword and Electric Cannon considerably.

More results:
The Metallikato Blade continues to impress, at least 56% damage on the second hit - but then I suspect my opponent wasn't actually wearing any armor... Or maybe Ceramic is just like tissue paper.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... na_id=9011

Laser-Blazer Broadsword recharge down to 26 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... na_id=9242

CATalyst at 1:01 and 1:12, BB recharge up to longer than 11 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... on_id=9152

Laser-Blazer sword longer than 20.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... na_id=9364

Finally got the BBs narrowed down to 12 second recharge.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... on_id=9410

Energon Crossbow longer than 28.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... on_id=9502

Narrowed Metallikato Blade to 24 second recharge.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... na_id=9656

Laser Pistol: More than 24 seconds, less than 34:
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10341

It's amazing how you can spend days tracking down a range for a weapon and then suddenly you get a log with everything you needed to know all within a few attacks of each other. The Laser Blazer Broadsword's recharge is 24 seconds. So says this log:
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10363

Laser pistol recharge 30 or less.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10417

Energon Crossbow's recharge is 30 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=10324

Laser Pistol recharge longer than 28 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10504

Energo-Sword recharge longer than 16 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10554

Energo-Sword narrowed down to 18 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10835

Thanks for posting this one, Caelus, it clinches Electric Cannon at 36 seconds. Reposting just so I know where I found that bit of evidence.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... n_id=10463

Rocket Launcher longer than 55 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=10936

Rocket launcher shorter than 60 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=11145

X-Ray Laser longer than 27 seconds, less than 38.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12053

X-Ray laser recharge is 30 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12185

Think I've got PPFs down to 18.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12250

Sword longer than 26, less than 43.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12370

Sword recharge is 30 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12488

Sawed Off CO2 Shotgun recharge is 30 seconds.
http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... a_id=12616

by **Dr. Caelus** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:36 pm

Rat Convoy wrote:I saw one of your bots using an Energo-Sword, too, didn't I, Windy? I'd like to see any results you have with that, as well. Thanks.

Cruellock's been using one for ages.

I'll retrieve his most recent records.

Whiff.
One hit.
One hit.
Two hits.

The Energo Sword looks good on paper, but it's never worked that well for me, even now that it's not contending with BBs. Cruellock has had it purely for character reasons.

Black magic on the other hand doesn't suck.

6% damage versus 10 tons of Electrum isn't horrible.
7% versus 10 tons of Electrum.
A couple of substantial hits versus level sixes.

I'm assuming Gore and Hecatomb have Electrum armor.

by **Cheetron** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:31 pm

Sorry I haven't been able to post any more battles, my internet's speed has severely dropped. It went from a 46.6 whatever modem to a 16.3 whatever.

If any of my teams battles could help, I'll put the link to the main team page below.

http://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar ... p?id=18582

by **Rat Convoy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:07 pm

Windracer wrote:
Rat Convoy wrote:I'd like to see tested:
Electric Cannon

I have one equipped to one of my transformers right now. It's no super weapon, but it does its job most of the time. Let's see if I have any decent logs...

40% dmg to a lv. 4, not sure if the opponent has iron armor or not, though.

32% dmg to a lv. 6, probably wearing Crystalline. I might add it was used in the first five seconds of the mission...

42% dmg at 2:10, not sure if iron armor was involved either.

A good look at the recharge rates... 42 seconds, 49 seconds. Also shows the kind of damage it does against 10 END and probably Ceramic Armor. Nothing too comforting about seeing single-digit damage readouts...

I'll start throwing Blaze into more fights to see if anything else spectacular happens and update my post accordingly. I'll also bust out an E/C for one of my level 6 characters to see how it handles higher levels...

I saw one of your bots using an Energo-Sword, too, didn't I, Windy? I'd like to see any results you have with that, as well. Thanks.

by **Windracer** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:55 pm

Rat Convoy wrote:I'd like to see tested:
Electric Cannon

I have one equipped to one of my transformers right now. It's no super weapon, but it does its job most of the time. Let's see if I have any decent logs...

40% dmg to a lv. 4, not sure if the opponent has iron armor or not, though.

32% dmg to a lv. 6, probably wearing Crystalline. I might add it was used in the first five seconds of the mission...

42% dmg at 2:10, not sure if iron armor was involved either.

A good look at the recharge rates... 42 seconds, 49 seconds. Also shows the kind of damage it does against 10 END and probably Ceramic Armor. Nothing too comforting about seeing single-digit damage readouts...

I'll start throwing Blaze into more fights to see if anything else spectacular happens and update my post accordingly. I'll also bust out an E/C for one of my level 6 characters to see how it handles higher levels...

by **Rat Convoy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:09 pm

I've gone through everyone's entries and here's where we stand on recharge rates:
Double-Barreled Crystallizer Cannon: 150 seconds
Photon Eliminator Rifle: 120 seconds
Domesticated Kremzeek: 90 seconds
Fusion Cannon: 90 seconds
Direct-Current Electrical Laser: 60 seconds
Rocket Launcher: 60 seconds.
Rocket Propelled Mortar Shells: 60 seconds
X-Ray Laser Cannon: 60 seconds
Black Magic: 42 seconds
Augmented Quark Disrupters: 36 seconds
Electric Cannon: 36 seconds
Hydro-Cyclone Cannon: 36 seconds
Dol-Laser Rifle: 30 seconds
Energon Crossbow: 30 seconds
Laser Pistol: 30 seconds
Plasma Sphere Shooter: 30 seconds
Sawed-Off CO2 Shotgun: 30 seconds
Sword: 30 seconds
X-Ray Laser: 30 seconds
Laser-Blazer Broadsword: 24 seconds
Maceration Laser: 24 seconds
Metallikato Blade: 24 seconds
Double-Barrelled Plasma Shell Shotgun: 18 seconds
Dual Slime Lasers: 18 seconds
Energo-Sword: 18 seconds
Poisonous Paralyzer Fluids: 18 seconds
Battle Blades: 12 seconds

How I arrive at the numbers: I note a time than a character makes a weapon attack, I then look for the LONGEST amount of time a character is still making punch/kick attacks after that. That becomes the bottom of the range. I then look for the SHORTEST amount of time it takes for a character to make another weapon attack. That becomes the the top of the range. When we finally have a short end of the range one lower than the long end of the range, we know that the recharge rate is the long end of the range, i.e., the weapon IS NOT charged at 19 seconds but IS charged at 20 seconds, it follows the recharge rate is 20 seconds.

This, of course, assumes that recharge rates are constant, which all evidence suggests they are.

So as you guys are looking for results to give me, make sure said results actually close the gap between the above numbers.

By the way, I've also tested the Variable-Caliber Machine Gun, and it is FAR too unreliable, damage-wise, for how much you are investing in it stats-wise, even though it is no-recharge.

Thanks to everyone that is helping, your work has helped close the gaps on a number of weapons.

by **Rat Convoy** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:41 am

Thanks for the additional results, guys, and keep 'em coming.

Let me know if anyone needs extra research funding, I'm sure I could spare some energon. And if anyone else would like to help fund this, your generous donations would be appreciated.

So far, our results are we have tracked down the exact recharge rates on Augmented Quark Disrupters (36 seconds) and Black Magic (42 seconds). We're close to exact recharge rates on several other weapons.

I'm having a problem, though. I'm no mathematician, and figuring out the exact damage ranges for the weapons is proving difficult. Too many variables. I don't know exactly how Strength affects damage. I don't know exactly how armor affects damage. And the days are gone when someone could level down far enough to be able to see regular 0 STR vs. 0 armor battles, like The Collector did for the AWC a few years ago.

Any suggestions? Or anyone have the math skills to figure it out? Right now I'm considering offering bounties to very low levels to equip themselves with whatever weapon we want tested and nothing else, and sending that bot into the arena for results.

Or is this even necessary? We can see the approximate damages for each weapon, and while I remember The Collector's test finding small variances between Heavy damage on one weapon and Heavy damage on another, maybe just having the approximate damage and the recharge time is enough to determine which weapons are superior.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions?

Edited to Add: I need someone to test the Energon Crossbow. The bot I'm using it on Rams far too often to give me recharge rates.

by **Razor One** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:32 am

Dol Laser Rifle

My Stats

Strength: 8
Firepower: 2

Hit 1: 50% Recharge: N/A (L 0 Target)
Hit 2: 46% Recharge: 69 Seconds (L3 Target, Rank 1, 4 Strength)
Hit 3: 44% Recharge: 37 Seconds (Same As Last Target)
Hit 4: 39% Recharge: 42 Seconds (L3 Target, Rank 0, 3 Strength)
Hit 5: 32% ++(Stasis Lock, possibly higher) Recharge: 31 Seconds (Same As Last Target)

DBPSS

My Stats:

Strength: 5
Firepower: 2

Hit 1: Avoided Recharge: N/A
Hit 2: 35% Recharge: 26 Seconds (L1 Target, Rank 0, 3 Strength)
Hit 3: 26% Recharge: 49 Seconds (L3 Target, Rank 2, Strength 4, Endurance 2)
Hit 4: 11% ++(Stasis Lock) Recharge: 18 Seconds (L3 Target, Rank 0, Strength 4)
Hit 5: 8% ++(Stasis Lock) Recharge: 42 Seconds (L1 Target, Rank 0, 3 Strength)
Hit 6: Avoid Recharge: 115 Seconds
Hit 7: 33% ++(Stasis Lock) Recharge: 19 Seconds (L3 Target, Rank 0, Strength 4)

DBPSS

Target Stats

Strength: 6
Endurance: 1

My Stats

Strength: 6
Firepower: 2

Hit 1: 38% Recharge: N/A
Hit 2: 29% Recharge: 21 Seconds
Hit 3: 27% Recharge: 30 Seoncds
Hit 4: 16% ++(Stasis Lock) Recharge: 28 Seconds

Electric Cannon

Used on my bot

My Stats

7 Tons Iron Armor

Enemy Stats

FRP 3
Strength 6

Hit 1: 36% Recharge: N/A
Hit 2: Miss Recharge: 91 Seconds
Hit 3: 29% ++(Stasis Lock) Recharge: 72 Seconds

DBPSS

Enemy Stats

Strength: 4
Endurance: 2

My Stats

Strength: 2
Firepower: 2

Hit 1: 22% Recharge: N/A
Hit 2: 26% Recharge: 45 Seconds
Hit 3: 20% Recharge: 61 Seconds
Hit 4: 20% ++(Stasis Lock) Recharge: 19 Seconds

DBPSS

My Stats

Strength: 4
Firepower: 2

Hit 1: 27% Recharge: N/A (L2 Target, 3 Strength)
Hit 2: Miss Recharge: 94 Seconds
Hit 3: 27% Recharge: 28 Seconds (L2 Target, 1 Strength, 3 Endurance)
Hit 4: 21% Recharge: 41 Seconds (Same Target)

Hope this helps

by **Dr. Caelus** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:17 am

Dropshock's D-CEL did a fair bit of damage to Major Meltdown considering the Major is probably wearing Neutronium. The long recharge bit me in the ass though.

And the Energon Crossbow was dishing out all sorts of pain on both sides of the fight here.