The Energon Pub

So here we have 2 Companies vying for a Custom Arcee share of the Market. We also had Hasbro's designers and staff about to release an Arcee in their Titanium Line up..But which Arcee would have been the clear cut winner??

I am gonna reserve Judgement for now, but there are several sites that have an Arcee photo gallery of the Custom versions..

here is a link:
Rabid Squirrel and Monolith Productions version:
http://www.transformerland.com/female-transformers.html




Now granted their version has some advantages in the area of articulation, and boxy likeness to the cartoon concept.. but there are flaws..

Studio Epsilon Version:
http://tfkenkon.com/g/?mode=album&album ... ep%2FArcee





Now, I'm really a fan of this design, it really brings out the likeness very well, and the quality is a bit cleaner..plus she actually looks like a younger version of Arcee, like a Teenager...which is pretty cool for shwoing her youth as apposed to Prime and the other bots..



But to top it off you have the Hasbro Prototype images we saw from the 2007 botcon..


so let me ask the fandom...

Which Arcee is the best?

why has it taken soo long to get an updated version of this character from G-1?

So, i wanted to add that I think considering lately with how astonished I am at more and more custom robots coming from different small time companies, and the level of accuracy to G-1 and their attention to detail, one wonders why the Arcee Presented at Botcon was sooo dissimilar to that of the original design from G-1? No longer can Hasbro hide behind the mask of functionality and transformation suffers the likeness and robot design..

Look at what hasb been done to the Arcee robots versus the Hasbro design Prototype,a nd you will definitely see that there are some serious issues that their designers need to look at, and I say this with a very stern voice..

Hasbro you need to step up your Game!!!

if custom guys can put this level of detail and attention into a product owned by your company and out shine your designers, then something is amiss.. and I think that Hasbro should be setting the bar for great and accurate toy likenesses and not customizers.. it's a shame that the company that gave us Transformers Movie toys, can't work out a simple problem like doing a Generation one accurate Arcee toy???

WTF??

And what of other products, like the Quintessons? the Jizaitoys customs? what the hell is Hasbro doing? Those toys would have and should have been the true classics toys, so why give us a reimagined version when clearly an updated and modern version is all we really want??

Like this:


or this:


So heres my point...

Why give us this:


When all you had to do was modify and retool this:


Rant over!!!

I think that you have to remember that Hasbro is still a busuiness and to them money is more important than pleasing every single need of their fans. Also transformers isn't their only toy line so it wouldnt seem that economical to divote that much money to it.

As for your talk about classics, the whole point of it was for it to be a filler line until the new movie debuts. Market strategy wise it was ment to be to all ages, not the original G1 fans. They had to take the original famous characters and update them so current kids would like them. The current classic prime would seem a lot more appealing to a little kid then the design of the original prime.

As for the design of Arcee by Hasbro, that was the 6inch titanium version and not a delux class. The titainum series were overly simplified versions of famous transformers characters with some die cast. However the line wasnt as well recieved as they liked to characters like Arcee never went past prototype after the line was canceled. Also, when they do design the figure there is a budget that they have to stick to to make the most money from. Also other reasons that might affect their choice in design is toy lines theme. Classics was a re do of original characters so it wouldnt fit for hasbro to make an Arcee that looked pretty much like the original.

Wheelie and Cyclonus are also very nice but also Hasbro has to think about what kids will by becuase thats who they try to sell to the most. Do you think kids will play with some orange guy or optimus prime. As for Cyclonus, thats a great figure but again its just a modified orignal G-1 and not a true classics update

FlamingUnicron wrote:I think that you have to remember that Hasbro is still a busuiness and to them money is more important than pleasing every single need of their fans. Also transformers isn't their only toy line so it wouldnt seem that economical to divote that much money to it.

Devoting money to it?? what do you mean? You mean time and money to develop a great toy, that is accurate to animation? if that's the case, then farm out the designing to takara..

FlamingUnicron wrote:As for your talk about classics, the whole point of it was for it to be a filler line until the new movie debuts. Market strategy wise it was ment to be to all ages, not the original G1 fans. They had to take the original famous characters and update them so current kids would like them. The current classic prime would seem a lot more appealing to a little kid then the design of the original prime.

Why??

Why wouldn't the original prime design be just as marketable and a good seller as that of their updated Voyager? It seems to me that the G-1 Prime design is just as wonderful and special as it is today as it was back in the 80s.. so why does it have to change?? Simply to be different? To seperate itself from the 80s version?? What possible reason for the Voyager Prime is there that he is more marketable then the original or an updated and retooled Version of the Robot Masters Prime and I'm not talking about that junk that was passed off in the Megatron and Prime deluxe 2 Pack...

So Why?? Why is Voyager Prime better then the Original Optimus prime design?

FlamingUnicron wrote:As for the design of Arcee by Hasbro, that was the 6inch titanium version and not a delux class. The titainum series were overly simplified versions of famous transformers characters with some die cast. However the line wasnt as well recieved as they liked to characters like Arcee never went past prototype after the line was canceled. Also, when they do design the figure there is a budget that they have to stick to to make the most money from. Also other reasons that might affect their choice in design is toy lines theme. Classics was a re do of original characters so it wouldnt fit for hasbro to make an Arcee that looked pretty much like the original.

So why call it classics?? Why not then call them redux or Transformers Reimagined, or just Robots in dusguise?? I mean the concept odf calling them classics is simply rediculous, and the customs actually show what an Updated version should be.. the Classics in my view should never be deemed an updated version, because they are actually just reimagined versions, with alot of difference from the origianls..

now I do believe the seekers were an accurate depiction, and the Rodimus was okay.. the Bumblebee was nice, but no cliffjumper new head sculpt?? Saving money, I can understand, but doing a repaint and calling it cliffjumper, without giving a cliffjumper head is just sloppy...

Here's another question, I understand Titaniums were simplified versions of the characters, but I mean come on!! the Arcee prototype doesn't even have feet!! just 2 little claws...


it totally makes sense now to call the classics 2.0 Transformers universe.. becasue in all honesty.. alot of them really aren't classics or updated versions so much as reimagined versions...which I just don't see how a true version of Prime could be considered a bad seller and the new Voyager a better and more Up to date kid friendly seller..

Prime's image lasts the test of time.. and I know because we have seen tons of articles calling the Masterpiece the best Transformer ever!!

FlamingUnicron wrote:Wheelie and Cyclonus are also very nice but also Hasbro has to think about what kids will by becuase thats who they try to sell to the most. Do you think kids will play with some orange guy or optimus prime. As for Cyclonus, thats a great figure but again its just a modified orignal G-1 and not a true classics update

so basically a kid could careless about another type of figure as apposed to that of just wanting Prime and Megatron.. well shoot, then if that's the case then why produce anyone other then megatron and Prime?? What about all those supporting characters in Armada, Energon, and Cybertron?? Were they then useless characters?? I don't agree with you on this point because of the bazillions of minicons that have come off the assembly line, and your telling me a Cyclonus and wheelie wouldnot be a seller and kids would shun it?? Come on!!!

Seeing the Arcee Proto up lose, it looks repulsive!

I would want a combination of the twoo customs, the head and hands from the 2nd one and the boddy from the 1 one.

And G1 Prime isn't unloved by todays kids, utherwise the MP Prime and RM Prime wouldn't have sold atall!

Okay, for starters, you know why there's a difference?

Because the people designing them are different and have different interpretations.

And someone can correct me if i'm wrong but a lot of Hasbro's stuff is designed by more than one person whereas a kitbash/custom is normally designed by one person.

So yes, when you've got a team of designers working they're all going to come up with different ideas.

Add to that I look at the customs and wonder just how complex their transformations are.

Look at the Hasbro prototype and the fact that it was going to be a Titanium and remember how basic Titanium transformations are.

And that's why the Hasbro version looks so radically different, it was developed for a line with simple transformation involved.

As for modifying and retooling MP Prime, they did. That's what got in the Classics G1 two-pack Prime. That was based on MP Prime.

Not only that it's not a simple case of just modifying and retooling things. You can't just take a MP figure and hit it with a shrink ray. There are internal parts which may not be able to be made small. Plus shrinking it down you have to make it marketable towards kids hence why the G1 Prime had the "punch" feature added to him.

You really need to stop and remember that Hasbro develop and market TOYS to CHILDREN. They simply do not, and I highly doubt they ever will, cater to adult collectors. Oh and they're a giant international company dedicated to making a profit.

Once people accept that the sooner they'll stop the Hasbro bashing.

Burn wrote:L


As for modifying and retooling MP Prime, they did. That's what got in the Classics G1 two-pack Prime. That was based on MP Prime.

Not only that it's not a simple case of just modifying and retooling things. You can't just take a MP figure and hit it with a shrink ray. There are internal parts which may not be able to be made small. Plus shrinking it down you have to make it marketable towards kids hence why the G1 Prime had the "punch" feature added to him.

Y

That is Rm Prime, not MP Prime!

Those Arcee customs look nice, but I question whether or not they would have held up to Hasbro's mass-production capability and still provided semi-durable figures in the process. That more than anything may be why the Titanium Arcee proto looks the way it does. Not that I have a problem with it...neither Strika nor Glyph had a glamorous feminine physique. Of course, I also pretty much refer to my Movie Scout-class Elita-1 figure as "Classics Arcee" anyway.

And as a toy, RM Optimus isn't that great, IMO. As was pointed out, you can't just scale down MP Convoy/Anniversary Optimus and expect every exquisite detail to be scaled down with it. The plastic is cheap-looking, his accessories are tiny and can be easily lost, and he's just too small to make a decent Optimus figure. I'll take Voyager-class Classics Optimus, thank you very much - I like my TFs big.

As for that custom Cyclonus and Wheelie...gorgeous customs, but again, I question how well they'd hold up to Hasbro's manufacturing capability.

The Arcee customs dont appeal to me, but I'm not a fan of her to begin with. But, they look a hell of a lot better than that prototype, except Hasbros head sculpt looks best. I will agree on one point though- I want a Cyclonus!

And as much as of a Prime fan as I am, I don't really want the bland G1 design rehashed. I personally think its great he has had so many diverse designs ever since the flatnosed cab; I for one love his Armada design.

I feel skywarp 2's pain. hy can't they design a viable(economically) and anime accurate Arcee? BTW I prefer Studio Epsilon's model ( Rabid squirrel plain sucks!) More or less, maybe a japanese designer over the US team.......they do better fembots.

This may be unrelated, but subconsciously even in videogames, the japanese tend to design they female models more on the kawaii side (check their videogames) hence a more appealing look while the western style, with a few exceptions, the ladies look garishly like men (check the old Xbox1 demo)

Burn wrote:Okay, for starters, you know why there's a difference?

Because the people designing them are different and have different interpretations.

And someone can correct me if i'm wrong but a lot of Hasbro's stuff is designed by more than one person whereas a kitbash/custom is normally designed by one person.

So yes, when you've got a team of designers working they're all going to come up with different ideas.

Add to that I look at the customs and wonder just how complex their transformations are.

Look at the Hasbro prototype and the fact that it was going to be a Titanium and remember how basic Titanium transformations are.

And that's why the Hasbro version looks so radically different, it was developed for a line with simple transformation involved.

Yes I understand why the titanium looks soo basic and funky, and I personally wouldn't have bought the titanium version had it been released.. The fact that there are alot of people designing different toys at Hasbro isn't a crutch i can allow to be placed on the differences in their toys.. it's not really allot of different people with different hands in on a Project.. i remember reading that there are teams devoted to certain projects and usually one main lead designer overseeing the entirety of the project..so if there were tons of different people a line wouldn't match what so ever..

Burn wrote:As for modifying and retooling MP Prime, they did. That's what got in the Classics G1 two-pack Prime. That was based on MP Prime.

Not only that it's not a simple case of just modifying and retooling things. You can't just take a MP figure and hit it with a shrink ray. There are internal parts which may not be able to be made small. Plus shrinking it down you have to make it marketable towards kids hence why the G1 Prime had the "punch" feature added to him.

The Classics G-1 2-Pack prime was a complete and utter disaster in my opinion.. and if you look at him closely the Robot Masters Version is way better.. I think some one said they wouldn't prefer the RM version or the deluxe because the Voyager is just bigger and they like their leaders large.. well that's all fine and dandy, what's to say that had they done things differently and they modified and retooled the Robot Masters Version, biggr, better and a better Altmode that you would have been feeling different about it today..

In all fairness, what I'm trying to say is, when it comes to classics, and the original G-1 Prime format and design..it's not just for collectors and stands the test of time.. and I think had we gotten a Voyager G-1 Accurate Prime Similar to that of the Robot Master Version, it would have sold better then the Voyager we got with classics...

Burn wrote:You really need to stop and remember that Hasbro develop and market TOYS to CHILDREN. They simply do not, and I highly doubt they ever will, cater to adult collectors. Oh and they're a giant international company dedicated to making a profit.

Once people accept that the sooner they'll stop the Hasbro bashing.

I understand Hasbro designs toys for kids, but I still think the original G-1 toys with updated looks, and I'm talking about updated engineering, and not a reimagined version, would sell in todays market..just as well as it would have back in the day..

Spiderman is classic in his red outfit.. there have been many variations of that outfit.. so Ii liken Classics Prime to a variation of th design.. but the classic format is still viable as it was back then..So why does it have to be "Catering to an Adult Market" to produce an Optimus Prime that looks like his G-1 persona??? That kids and adult collectors alike can both enjoy??

Besides, I'm not Hasbro bashing, i don't know why a simple critique of a product line that is produced by a toy manufacturer is considered Hasbro Bashing.. there are plenty of things Hasbro has released int he past that I love..

I just feel that with Classics, even as a Filler toy line, should have and could have been done different and better.. and that if your really gonna do an "Updated" design on the original characters then the jizaitoys customs are pretty close..I would prefer a G-1 movie accurate Cyclonus.. and yes I'm glad there are more versions of him out there in other toy lines.. but what I'm saying is there are other versions already..and if they are truly making a line called classics then why not stick to the original designs but update them like the cyclonus and Wheelie??

so basically we should just take what ever we get dished out from Hasbro and deal with it?? i think that attitude is exactly why custom toy companies like jizaitoys exist.. to debunk that rule and give fans and collectors what they want..the only thing that sucks is that on the mass retail front, we won't get them at a great cost, and kids get stuff forced on them like the Animated lines..

Why go in a new direction, when the original needs fixing..Masterpiece is giving us collectors a chance to get the bots as they were in the g-1 era days in high quality, classics was an attempt to fill a spot before the movie toys debut, but why can't they go back and revisit the original concept and really and truly give us updated designs and not reimagined versions?? Hasn't every toy line since been another interpretation on the original?? Classics was just another interpretation, and I liken it to A/E/C trilogy because with the exception of the seekers and few other characters.. it really didn't hold true to updating the G-1 toys.. it redid them almost in some cases entirely !!!

Look at classics Grimlock, as an example, yes he looks similar to his G-1 bot form, but still is no where near as close as they could have been..

Dead Metal wrote:That is Rm Prime, not MP Prime!

So it is.

But RM Prime was still just a shrunken down version of MP Prime. And I found the only real difference between RM Prime and G1 Cl Prime was the addition of the punch function which in turn screwed up the whole design.

But kids these days just aren't impressed with transforming toys, they always need something else.

Burn wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:That is Rm Prime, not MP Prime!

So it is.

But RM Prime was still just a shrunken down version of MP Prime. And I found the only real difference between RM Prime and G1 Cl Prime was the addition of the punch function which in turn screwed up the whole design.

But kids these days just aren't impressed with transforming toys, they always need something else.

I've gotta disagree with you on the Robot Master version versus the Deluxe.. the RM version is smaller, but the deluxe just looks like crap comparatively..they should have made a Voyager and retooled Version of the RM toy, and that would have been great..instead we got the Reimagined version in voyager and that deluxe sham of a Prime, which is almost as if Hasbro was saying, look we made a bot on the original design and he sucks.. see our reimagined way is better..

No Hasbro, your design is what sucks.. the reimagined is good, but not an update of the original design.. you should have taken a cue from this design:


I'm telling you, in my opinion, the Robot masters version is still better..





vry accurate little toy.. Classics should have been what G-1 toys should have been had they had todays technology.. not what G-1 toys would look like applying reimagined designs..

if it ain't broke, why try to fix it??

skywarp-2 wrote:if it ain't broke, why try to fix it??

Well, it's "broke" in the sense that Bumblebee can't be a VW anymore, nor can half the Autobots be what they were in 1984 or any modern variation thereof without going through a sh**load of red tape with the various auto makers, and that's just the ones that would actually let Hasbro use the old alt-mode cars; notice how we didn't get any new Alternators and the Movie toys at the same time (although Alternators is pretty much dead anyway). Plus Megatron can't be a realistic-looking gun anymore, so even if they had the ability to tool down MP Megatron to a smaller scale, they wouldn't be able to use it. So in that regard, for Hasbro to tackle an entire new line focusing specifically on reintroducing the G1 characters, they'd have to redesign the characters anyway.

I agree Skywarp 2 that I would rather see updated versions rather than reimagined ones. Yes I know they can't get each character to be the same but at least try. Make an updated version of G1 Megatron just add an orange tip make it white and your done that's the only difference. No reason you can't make Prime the same give him a trailer too. And please give us an updated Soundwave I am not buying another reissue. But then again have to agree with everyone else too everything just can't be an updated version

Jaw Crusher wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:if it ain't broke, why try to fix it??

Well, it's "broke" in the sense that Bumblebee can't be a VW anymore, nor can half the Autobots be what they were in 1984 or any modern variation thereof without going through a sh**load of red tape with the various auto makers, and that's just the ones that would actually let Hasbro use the old alt-mode cars; notice how we didn't get any new Alternators and the Movie toys at the same time (although Alternators is pretty much dead anyway). Plus Megatron can't be a realistic-looking gun anymore, so even if they had the ability to tool down MP Megatron to a smaller scale, they wouldn't be able to use it. So in that regard, for Hasbro to tackle an entire new line focusing specifically on reintroducing the G1 characters, they'd have to redesign the characters anyway.

Yeah, I agree Megatron is a Problem, but, barring him what else really has to change due to toy laws?? ok, so you can make a car that looks similar to the VW Beetle, but not an exact duplicate, and break no rules just as you can with other cars.. look at the side swipe coming out..in Transformers Universe, if it's not possible to get a car licensed, then how come they can still make them???

that is why I said lets go and make him a Gun turret, then atleast he can be colored in his classic coloring and be engineered almost similar to the original gun design..

if we can get custom toys that look like their G-1 cartoon characters, and have great altmodes, then why can't hasbro do that on a large scale, given how well classics were recieved it seems to me that there is definitely a Market for toys with a Generation one tone..

I agree with you on the Prime issue for the most part. I'd have happily bought a Voyager version of the RM/MP design. That is G1 style Optimus. Instead they gave us something more akin to the G2 comics design, which frankly, didn't interest me as much as the Deluxe 2-pack one, because, even with it's flaws I felt it better represented a re-engineered version of the original design. Simply put, we've yet to get a definitive G1 styled Optimus Prime toy that works in-scale with the majority of TFs.

Now, Arcee(s):
There's things I like about each of the 3 designs there. Obviously the Hasbro one is the least attractive (Take that any way you wish to) and also the least cartoon-accurate. They didn't even give her her awesome looking gun from the movie. The head design's no bad, I'll give it that. The 2 custom ones are each impressive in their own way and leak lubricant all over the official one. As Dead Metal says something of a pick and mix of parts from each of the 2 would make the best looking design for a proper toy. I love the idea of the Daniel Headmaster, even simplified as it is.

The main thing I think that we should bear in mind though, is that these custom designs are sold to a specific market, not to the public at large. They are designed to emulate a character and fill a gap in the market that has been ignored for whatever reason by the owners of that character. Then the (often extravagant) price is stuck on it and it's sold. Hasbro in the meantime, likely designates toys specific price-points and calculates how many pieces they can use for each toy, factoring in paint applications and any extra features (like firing missiles or pack-in gimmicks like coins or mini-cons), then designs the toy to fit these parameters. It doesn't explain why they've not done so for Arcee yet, but it does excuse a certain amount of skimping out on making this a Masterpiece standard figure in a deluxe scale. I just hope that if/when they get around do making one they manage to make it accurate enough to the cartoons and give us some sensible articulation. And her cool gun.

Lastly, a word about the redesigns in the Classics line in general:
Whilst I appreciate Skywarp2's interpretation of what the Classics line should mean, and agree with it, it doesn't appear that Hasbro did to that much extent. There were some very broad strokes used in their idea of updated designs. Personally the only Classics toy that I felt was a truly new version of an old character design was Starscream (and of course the other seekers, but I'll avoid talking about them for certain reasons) because, barring a few paint applications it was a pretty darn faithful recreation of the original seeker design, only using modern toy technology. The rest all varied in some way, from minor to major differences. Jetfire was pretty good, and a nice cross between a Macross Valkyrie and Skyfire, but it was more of a comic inspired Jetfire. Mirage, Grimlock, Rodimus and Astrotrain all certainly captured the spirits of their G1 namesakes but are decidely different. BB and Cliffjumper suffered from their lack of individuality and in BB's case because he wasn't a Bug. The Bumblebee head sculpt really is a Classic though. The only other toys released under the Classics label that are closer to G1 than 'screamer are Soundwave, Ravage and Laserbeak, and in that case it's obvious why, not that they couldn't have been improved a little with remade versions.

First of all, RM Prime is crap. The pictures make him look better than he is. I bought him because the idea of a shrunken, articulate MP Prime appealed to me, but he's not very stable and he broke on me. The waist of all places. I got a new one and will never transform him.

That said, why can't they do an update of G1 Prime? I think it's boring if everything looks exactly like the origonal cartoon. We have RM Prime, we have Hybrid Prime, MP Prime, the other Classics Prime ... all releatively recently. The update was good. Why can't G1 Prime be updated? Powermasters Prime was better than the origional. G2 Lazer Prime was betetr than the origional. The only Prime that wasn't better than the origional was Star Convoy.

Arcee ... the the first one looks like it has some flaws in the manufacturing. Just the way the plastic look sto me ... looks like there's alot of bubbles. The second one looks awsome, but it looks like it needs support to stand on it's own two feet. And the Titanium is a Titanium which was always hit or miss (You'll recall how awsome Cosmos and Shockwave were gonna be).

Plus, these model kits sometimes have way too many peices to be really marketable, I think. I mean, I'd love to see Cyke or Wheelie in official toy form. Unlike others I don't see why it can't happen. "Lesser" characters get made all the time from any line. But some of them, Arcee especially, look much too expencive to officially produce.

That said, there's probably gonna be an Animated Arcee that's close to G1 in bot mode. So we'll see how that turns out.

Skywarp-2 I've been saying the same thing since "Classics" first came out.
Classics are way too detailed. Every inch of them is covered in pointless grooves and raised areas. What made the G1 designs so great was the simple elegance of them. The robot modes were so completely free of kibble because there were no panels or anything covering the limbs in alt mode. They just slid out from wherever they hid. Modern figures can't have the limbs just slide out from anywhere because the stupid raised areas would constantly snag something on their way out or in. What made Masterpiece Prime so great was the fact that it replicated the simple, kibble free look of the G1 figure and updated it with more cartoon accurate proportions. I see no reason why Hasbro couldn't have replicated it as a smaller figure. If they took the matrix chamber out, the transformation would be no problem at all. But instead of the simple yet elegant look of MP or Robotmasters Prime, we got an over-detailed piece of junk with panels on the legs(making them disproportionate and less simplistic) and arms with "shields" on them(again, ruining the simplistic look.) Robotmasters Prime managed to replicate the simplicity of the G1 design with more cartoon accurate proportions. Why couldn't Hasbro do that when they were working with a larger figure and a larger budget?

you guys all bring up some really great points, and I'm not really gonna quote any of you simply because I don't want you to think i'm not discussing this issue with any one person, i'm actually responding to all of you.. I loev the fact that there are intelligent and reasonable people on here who take my rants and sometimes heated posting and calmly respond in a nice and audible manner..

I believe that the capability of taking the G-1 Prime Robot Masters design, retooling it, redesigning it, and modifications into a Large Voyager class figure, with a great Paint job and Trailer, with articulation and a wonderful Box packaging is not beyond Hasbro's capability..

Just as a Redesigned and retooled Megatron gun turret, would be able to be painted Silver, Black, and Red, with no Orange cap since it's a toy gun turret and not a role Play hand gun..(check out GI Joe Sigma 6 toys, no Orange caps..)

On the front of the Jetfire, meh.. he's quite awesome and a good marriage with the G-1 Design, Macross Toy design, and comic looks.. but he's not the Skyfire I grew up watching on TV...granted Classics are a cool idea and were a cause of some serious Nutso craziness.. kinda like that commercial for wendy's with the women yelling and screaming, with mens faces plasted on them.. all going nuts for the Bacon Burger!! In this case, classics transformers..

But if that small toyline is any indication of what fans and collectors, as well as just kids in general have bought.. then ofcourse there shows that there is an interest int he G-1 era, and as a viable toy series, and design wise..those TV cartoon accurate toys are needed..

I still think that if Hasbro wants to, they can give us a very cartoon accurate and special run of G-1 toys.. and to what was said earlier.. an Optimus Prime we can finally fit into the other Voyager Primes we have from other lines..

Masterpiece Optimus Prime is in a Class all his own, just as Robot Masters Prime is ina smaller class all his own..

The deluxe Prime, i would place him in a class of crap.. I was almost about to buy him when classic first arrived in stores, but as I got closer I said what the hell he looks soo cheap!! then i saw the Voyager, and I thought... that's not Optimus Prime!! He looks like a Gundam or something!!
Where is his trailer?? WTF??

So after that I was like ok.. another try, and another 5 years to wait I guess... Honestly, i don't know why its so hard for Hasbro to do it.. or any of the characters we should get...

Don't give us Transformers Cybertron Generation One toys, give us updated Generation One toys.. that type of quality, but with articulation, and not a bunch of useless detail for "Effect" or Kibble.. that may or maynot be shields..??

I personal love the classic line and cant wait for version 2.

i grew up watching G1 and beg my mom for prowl,jazz, Inferno, Snapdragon, and hotrod and OP.

I think the classic line did a good job of representing the G1 line it just the only problem i had with it is that hasbro basically use it as a mock filler line with only 1 and a half wave and prime didnt have a trailer which i see it startin 2 be a trend 4 him lately

StryderPrime wrote:I personal love the classic line and cant wait for version 2.

i grew up watching G1 and beg my mom for prowl,jazz, Inferno, Snapdragon, and hotrod and OP.

I think the classic line did a good job of representing the G1 line it just the only problem i had with it is that hasbro basically use it as a mock filler line with only 1 and a half wave and prime didnt have a trailer which i see it startin 2 be a trend 4 him lately

I don't think that Hasbro did Good job representing G-1 with classics.. and I don't think they did a Bad job either..

the whole point of my arguement is that these customizers are making toys to Update G-1 while all we get is reimagined G-1 from hasbro.. when will they stop trying to reimagine those characters and just give us a G-1 bot that really and truly looks like the original.. barring certain modifications of certain figures of course..??

I just want to stop seeing soo many different non G-1 Primes in Voyage ror better and actually get one that looks like the Original but with playability of the A/E/C trilogy.. and not a reimagined Bulky Optimus Prime with no smock stacks or Autobot symbols on his arms..WTF is with that??

one more thought on Classics Voyager Prime and Magnus...

If Hasbro did sucha good job, then why does Priem and Magnus......

Have a spatchula on their crotch?? What did they run out of Parts??

If you're gonna argue about reinventing the wheel on RM Prime you may as well demand a scaled-up version of Hybrid Convoy. Because:

A) RM Prime's vehicle mode ALSO has no trailer and a huge gap in the middle. Hybrid Convoy DOES have a trailer and a BETTER vehicle mode.
B) RM Prime really isn't posable you know. I mean not really. He has lots of joints, but ... he just isn't due to construction.
C) Hybrid convoy is the same size and is simply better in every single way.

Of course, they *did* give us an accurate G1 Prime already, even in Classics (although, yes he was crappy) so ....

Although I have to say I LIKE the updates MORE than the origional designs. Even those Arcees you posted aren't truly true to the cartoon. The Cartoon simplified Arcee's design alot. But the cartoon's look was very boxy and plain. With very few colors. And, in many places, highly inonsistant (Megatron AND Galvatron change colors mid-transformation). I prefer the new takes in Classics and Alternators.

Personal I think that what they are doing with the classics/universe line is great yes I would like a little less kibble on my prime and maybe a trailer for my ultra magnus. But over all consider how the world has changed in past 27yr since transformers was first introduced I'm pretty darn happy with the way things are going. If you want orignial versions with redone paint apps then collect g.i. joe 25th Anniversary.

shortround wrote:Personal I think that what they are doing with the classics/universe line is great yes I would like a little less kibble on my prime and maybe a trailer for my ultra magnus. But over all consider how the world has changed in past 27yr since transformers was first introduced I'm pretty darn happy with the way things are going. If you want orignial versions with redone paint apps then collect g.i. joe 25th Anniversary.

Ok, well, i'm not against Classics, don't get me wrong.. I'm just saying that I think that Hasbro could give us updated Transformers like they were from the 80s and yes things have changed in the 27 years since G-1, but if G-1 was soo outdated then why is Masterpiece so popular? Why was Alternatorsd soo Popular?

if you want to stay with what they are doing thats fine, but there are people like me who wonder why they haven't gone back and truly did their best to bring us what Jizaitoys customs and the Arcee customizers are trying to do, which is give us that updatd Transformer, whose likeness is to that of the cartoon and with updated todays technology in terms of engineering.. so for me..I like Classics, but don't think that the name is what it really means.. like I said they should have called it Transfoirmers Reimagined, or Transformers Redux.. because they really didn't stick very closely tot he source material..

I agree that a retooled and upscaled Hybrid convoy would be nice, with trailer.. but I wasn't saying to just take the Robot Masters versiona nd upscale it.. more like base a New Prime mould on that design, but improve it, and still make it as close to the G-1 Prime as ever..

skywarp-2 wrote:Ok, well, i'm not against Classics, don't get me wrong.. I'm just saying that I think that Hasbro could give us updated Transformers like they were from the 80s and yes things have changed in the 27 years since G-1, but if G-1 was soo outdated then why is Masterpiece so popular? Why was Alternatorsd soo Popular?

Masterpeice figures are only popular amoung fans. They sell out so quick because they are made in much smaller production runs then standard main line toys. And at least with the Hasbro version of MP Prime he was a shelf warmer wen he first came out, and he's been a shelf warmer with the rerelease with the talking base. Both the Alt and BT lines were canceld because they weren't making a profit, because not enough units were being sold to make up for the production costs. Like MPs they were fan favorites but the general public didn't care about them.

if you want to stay with what they are doing thats fine, but there are people like me who wonder why they haven't gone back and truly did their best to bring us what Jizaitoys customs and the Arcee customizers are trying to do, which is give us that updatd Transformer, whose likeness is to that of the cartoon and with updated todays technology in terms of engineering.. so for me..I like Classics, but don't think that the name is what it really means.. like I said they should have called it Transfoirmers Reimagined, or Transformers Redux.. because they really didn't stick very closely tot he source material..

Classics was from the beginning touted as updated versions of our favorite characters. Updated never meant identical just with new articulation. We all knew from the start Megatron was going to be different and Bumbble Bee couldn't be a VW bug. We all knew Ultra Magnus was going to be a Prime repaint. They did stick pretty close to the source material, they just didn't replicate it they evolved from it. I you wanted G1 identical figures go grab yourself some RM which from my experience are cheap pieces of crap but they'll fill your G1 identical fix.

I agree that a retooled and upscaled Hybrid convoy would be nice, with trailer.. but I wasn't saying to just take the Robot Masters versiona nd upscale it.. more like base a New Prime mould on that design, but improve it, and still make it as close to the G-1 Prime as ever..

Its all personal opinion of course, but I've got enough G1 primes, and really his alt mode and transformation are boring as hell. Between my MP and WST I've got all the G1 look alikes I need. I find the classics Prime to be a great figure with just enough changes to keep him interesting.