The Energon Pub

I wish I could hate this thread into a state of non-existence.

I should really say something constructive, I know.

But since somehow the insanely loved Classics line, all of a sudden, isn't "good enough" now...and since somehow, Hell froze over, Jesus and Elvis came back, and RobotMaster Prime was assumed to be superior to Classics Prime, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter anyway.

RobotMaster Prime...



for God's sake.

I think the crucial point, one that has come up during the course of discussion, is that Hasbro is a toy company primarily producing toys for children. They aren't a specialty producer like McFarlane Toys or Diamond Select or etc. That being said, the points raised here--namely, G1 accuracy--while valid, aren't that high up on the priority list.

But even on the point of G1 accuracy, I think there are few things we must keep in mind. The first, and perhaps the most damning, is that G1 toys weren't even G1 accurate. It would be too easy to look at the most egregious examples (Ratchet and Ironhide), so let's look at Optimus Prime. Looking at your example picture of G1 Prime and RM Prime, it's sad to say that RM Prime is a better representation of G1 Prime than the G1 Prime toy is (and THS Prime is an even better one at that). Not even considering articulation as a factor, the modern G1 Primes are much better designs than G1 Prime. What makes G1 Prime a better toy for the majority of people, is that it was a toy. In fact, you could say, it was the toy for these people. The nostalgia factor definitely plays a large and biased role in this discussion.

The second thing is to recognize our own expectations, and the limits and faults of our expectations. Trying to boil down skywarp-2's point down to its essentials, he wants toys to be more G1 show-accurate. To skywarp-2 (and others--I don't mean to single skywarp out), the problem is that toys no longer look at their source material. But let's consider what a child sees. What is Optimus Prime to a child? I don't mean to blaspheme, but Optimus Prime is a big, red and blue, robot with a faceplate that turns into a truck. As far as Classics (Voyager) Prime deviates from its source material, you can't say that it doesn't fulfill those elements. He is big. He is red and blue. He has a faceplate. He transforms into a truck.

These series of ads from Lego is a case in point of sorts. http://www.thefwa.com/adworld/adlego0606.html In each of these ads, we see a couple bricks. What the child sees, represented by the brick's shadow, is an airplane, a dinosaur, etc. All that being said, let's appreciate Classics, and any other modern toy line, for what they are, and not as victim of our collective nostalgia.

Counterpunch wrote:I wish I could hate this thread into a state of non-existence.

I should really say something constructive, I know.

But since somehow the insanely loved Classics line, all of a sudden, isn't "good enough" now...and since somehow, Hell froze over, Jesus and Elvis came back, and RobotMaster Prime was assumed to be superior to Classics Prime, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter anyway.

RobotMaster Prime...



for God's sake.

No kidding. I think Classics was fine the way they were produced. Especially Prime. If I wanted a prime that looked like G1 I would buy a reissue, which I did.
Classics prime updated the design of the alt mode to reflect current design of a rig, just like why Prime is his design in the movie.
Robot Masters Prime looks like he is a cheap knock off in my opinion, but that seems to be the look of many of the RM.

It is no doubt Classics was made more for collectors than the
kiddies. I would imagine though that through intensive
Q&A with kids and collectors alike the design was
created as a happy medium.

It's not the last version of Prime your vision of
a perfect G1 Prime just gives you something to look forward too.

DISCHARGE wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:I wish I could hate this thread into a state of non-existence.

I should really say something constructive, I know.

But since somehow the insanely loved Classics line, all of a sudden, isn't "good enough" now...and since somehow, Hell froze over, Jesus and Elvis came back, and RobotMaster Prime was assumed to be superior to Classics Prime, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter anyway.

RobotMaster Prime...



for God's sake.

No kidding. I think Classics was fine the way they were produced. Especially Prime. If I wanted a prime that looked like G1 I would buy a reissue, which I did.
Classics prime updated the design of the alt mode to reflect current design of a rig, just like why Prime is his design in the movie.
Robot Masters Prime looks like he is a cheap knock off in my opinion, but that seems to be the look of many of the RM.

It is no doubt Classics was made more for collectors than the
kiddies. I would imagine though that through intensive
Q&A with kids and collectors alike the design was
created as a happy medium.

It's not the last version of Prime your vision of
a perfect G1 Prime just gives you something to look forward too.

I agree, to the point that I do believe Classics Prime wasd a Great Figure, barring the Spatula on his crotch!! But with the Classics line a s a whole, not being good enough isn't what I'm saying.. they are good toys, but no where neaar what I'd consider "Classics" representations of the Characeters from G-1.. you can say he looks like Prime all the way till your all Blue in the face, but the fact of the Matter is Armada Prime was based on G-1, and so was Cybertron's design.. to a Kid those look like Prime too, and the classics version fits nicely into that book for me.. in my PERSONAL OPINION, I really think RM and THS Convoy look more closely like the Original Optimus Prime then any of the others released by Hasbro..

The deluxe would have been a nice toy, had they really taken steps to make that mold spectacular.. but it turned into a cheapass toy in a 2-pack!! a fist action, and top falling figure with some wierd dots on his knee pads!! WTF is that all about??

Say what you will, classics was a good filler series.. but I 'm gonna get the beat down for this...

Flaming citation commencing, make sure you quote it very much and very often...

The main reasons I don't think that Classics are as good and Godly as some of the fans here made them out to be when they first arrived, is because they are not updated G-1 toys, they are reimagined G-1 toys, with the reimagining of:

Jetfire as a combo of the comics, the cartoon and the macross toy...he's not as G-1 Accurate as everyone says...

the large sized but accurate bumblebee which is nice until they went with a straight and unaccurate repaint into cliffjumper...where's the new head sculpt, would that have broke the bank??

a White and kinda funky Astrotrain...

Devastator that was nothing more then a freaking repaint of another bot!!! why couldn't they have just repainted the Build team, gave him a G-1 devestator classic head, and called it a day... that would have been closer then the crap we saw in that gift pack!!

Why the hell were some of those minicons chosen?? there were plenty that filled a look of the G-1 bots they are supposed to represent...

Grimlock is a Combo of his G-1 Cartoon, the old Marcvel comics, and DW WWI designs.. he looks like he's been reimagined, not updated!!!

What was the point of classics High tower?? I mean he was just a repaint of Longarm that turns into Devestator!!

Leo Prime- WTF!!! I mean they could have chosen a Better mold to make leo Prime!! and on his box it says supreme commander of Cybertron??? So in Classics he's in charge even on top of Prime??


Long Haul- Not reimagined, nor updated, just a repaint and a new name.. fabulous!!


Megatron- we knew design changes were coming, but a freaking tank like the Abrams would have worked or a gun turret, but a Nerf pistol??


Megatron (deluxe) worst tank megatron I have ever seen with tons of super detailing that means absolutely nothing more then to make him too detailed and ugly...


Menasor- Oh my god that is crap in plastic!!



Mirage this was a nice update, unfortunately he has a hunchback and could be repainted nicely into a monster toy for holloween..


Nightscream Why?? Why?? I mean.........Why????.........


Oil Slick it's the general lee, with purple flames?? Oh and no hands and a Hacksaw for one hand.. this bot is cheap too..


Optimus Prime Ole Spatula Crotch himself!!! too much arm kibble and touted as the best updated Optimus to date...And here I though it was Masterpiece..oh wait that doesn't count cause he was made just for collectors, but was sold at Wal-mart in the thousands.. and reissued, and will probably be a big seller come X-mas.. hmmmm.....I still think Cybertron Prime is Better then classics Prime, no trailer, no smoke stacks, a redsigned look completely different from the original..

No glory...


Optimus Prime (deluxe) ewwww.. a crappy bigger version of the Robot Master, with spinblade attack??? WTF?? no thanks.. I'll stick with Robot Master Prime, he may be basic, but still better then that piece of junk..

no.... Really!!!



Overbite well as repaints go, i actually like overbite..not a bad figure...


Perceptor oh not even close.. if you guys can rally around Perceptor, then have at the series.. cause really he is no kind of update or even good homage to the origianl.. cheapass toy.. oh that's right this is the best series, but it was a filler..Ooohhhhhh Kayyyyy....


Ramjet Nice, too bad his brothers will cost you your next paycheck.. and will come only in a Baggy...!!

Rodimus A cross between Hot Rod, and Rodimus Prime, and has shoulder issues..


Scavenger
Much better then the Armada Version, still only a repaint, wiat if Botcon exclusives are just repaints, but they are different from what is released from hasbro, doesn't Devestator kinda feel like a Botcon repaint.. thus debunking the whole specialness that FunPub fans cite for the cost fo those toys???


Scrapper A repaint.. not bad though... just not what I was expecting as an Updated Devestator and scrapper figure...


Skywarp nice.. better then the Starscream, which had issues..


Sledge why would you give a toy arms like that?? I mean he will just get teased by the other minibots!!


Snarl Why would you consider that a Viable toy that I could even place money down on?? even in a 3 Pack!! Seriously guys go look in the gallery at some of these toys..


Soundwave (Reissue)Reissue.. what more can be doen to perfection?? ahh that takes money, and since this was a filler line.. meh.. reissue works..


- Starscream- has issues.. had issues, still a nice figure though..


Steel Wind He's a nice figure and his design very much reminds me of GoBots Bad Boy!!


Strongarm ohhh is that barricade?? Wait how does that bot walk???


Swoop I have nothing good to say about that cheap Piece of Sh&*(^!!!! a Disgrace to the original DinoBot!!


Terrorsaur why would you split his arms like that?? there had to have been a better Way!!!



Thunderwing Bright paint!! Bright Mold!! Gizmo me no like!!!


Trypticon yeah, nice try...

- Ultra Magnus Just another repaint!! I could turn that into a song... No new trailer, no updated look.. just a straight repaint, and sold as a 2-pack exclusive.. ahhh gotta love the fooolishness!!


Whirl great altmode, i just wish his colors weren't so bright.. oh yeah and for those who are like, well don't complain about the colors get a Paint set and fix them... ahhh that's the point of doing something right the first time.. so you don't have to go back and physically fix it.. that's not being nice to the consumer..


Wideload

why???


So the rest of the classics line ended up in Botcon exclusives, and they couldn't even give us an Alpha trion?? Just a Repaint of another figure.. classics is not the best line, and to those who went nutso, was it the name that did it?? Or was it simply a few homages to the old characters, and the rest repainted that drew you in..?? I count 6 I would buy, and the rest of the seekers from botcon, but that's really it.. not really the best updated version of the G-1 toy line..

Jizaitoys and the Arcee customizers may be expensive, but atleast they know how to bring us or try to bring us fans updated G-1 designs.. not a totally reimagined version..based on a designers "New Direction".. hey wait, isn't that what Armada was? Wasn't Cybertron a New Direction but with roots in G-1?? I see no difference between Classics and Cybertron toys..

Oh wait, that's right, this is the baddest Line to ever come out in years, thats what allot of you say, but if there is something wrong, you immediately hug onto the "But remember this was a Filler line for the movie toys" ok so which one is it!! the best line, or a line that had many flaws because it was a filler line???

A point that some seem to ignore is that kids aren't tired of the G1 Prime design. They never saw RM or Hybrid style, and I bet not many have MP! If I were a kid I'd be tired of Primes that don't turn into anything resembling anything.

Armada Prime is not something that any engineer would ever dream of designing as a real truck. Does that thing even fit in one lane?

Energon Prime is the kind of truck design that exists only in the worst nightmares of truck engineers. Futuristic is just not good enough of an excuse for Hasbro on this one.

Cybertron Prime was pretty neat I'll admit. Too bad it doesn't turn into anything. No matter how many times Hasbro says it, that is not a fire engine.

Classics voyager Prime doesn't have a trailer. I bet that disappoints kids. And the "truck" mode is way too rounded at the front to pass as a flat-nose truck. And you call those smokestacks?

A properly modernized G1 Prime would be a relief to kids. It would turn into something recognisable, it would be (to them) a new design, and would have lots of play value. A scaled up THS-02 with a better vehicle mode would have so much play value. The trailer can interact with the figure in so many ways and the jetpack+G2 style guns+smokestacks/fuel tanks rotated into atack position+energon axe/regular gun could pass as a super mode of sorts.

So to say that the G1 Prime design is overdone just doesn't work. You may have 20+ versions of it but you are not Hasbro's target market.

Prime without his trailer doesn't bother me that much. I still have the old one, (though it would be nice if, when they decide not to make a trailer for an Optimus toy, if they made it backwards compatible with an existing one, not hard is it?) the Powermaster one and the epileptic Armada version. That all said, yes, I would love an upscaled Hybrid Style Convoy. A voyager (or even Leader) class release, with the bot mode being somewhere around the height of a Voyager or Mega toy and a ton of extras.

If we're talking about characters who need trailers, Ultra Magnus is the prime candidate. I know that part of the original toy was a white Optimus Prime cab. But really, did anyone who had it, or who watched the cartoon, or read the comics, or played the rubbish video game back in those days, think of Magnus as a white Optimus Prime? If and when I did ever play with the cab on it's own, it was to emulate the Return of Optimus Prime metal coated Optimus. Ultra Magnus was a big, red, white and blue guy, with a mouth who turned into a car transporter. For all the arguments that Prime is a red and blue truck with a face plate, that last sentence is what Magnus is. I'd like to see something other than the Car Robots or Titanium lines remember that.

I understand that repaints are a great way for Hasbro to make more money off of existing toy designs. I don't mind that, and in fact welcome it in many cases. Primus knows the original line seemed to have at least one repaint of every major character and to be honest, that always made a lot of sense to me. These are robots, manufactured items, it stands to reason that they'd repeat designs. If humans could be grown to specific standards I'm sure we'd have a lot of people who looked almost identical as well. However, in a line that professes to be reimagining G1 characters, it'd be better if they'd repainted people who were actual repaints, and just avoided making others if that was one of the primary factors in choosing designs to produce.

A standard Autobot car design like Prowl would have given them plenty of options to repaint. Given the option to transform it another way and they could have made Jazz out of the same mold as well. They could have released 6 (or even 7) legitimate repaints of the seeker jet design, at retail. A sports car like Sunstreaker would have worked for his brother and probably a Decepticon or 2. Heck, for the majority of TFs the major factor in most fans minds beyond basic colouring and alt modes (car/jet/gun/whatever) is the head sculpt, but these were even pretty messed up on a few of these Classics.

I sound like I'm really down on Hasbro in general and the Classics line in particular, but believe me, I'm not. The ones I have are a heck of a lot better than some other TFs I own, not to mention a bunch of other crappy toys that I've seen over the years, but Shortround mentioned that people looking for a nostalgic updating of the engineering of truly classic toys without changing the designs seemingly on a whim, should check out the GI Joe 25th anniversary line. I would also recommend these. Assuming you're not after a nostalgia fix for Transformers that is. It is a shame that Hasbro has managed to do what many of us would have liked Classics to do, but in a line that they have pretty much discarded lately, rather than the one which had a summer blockbuster movie out. Of course, I can't say how good the quality is of the Joe 25th figures, since Hasbro UK sucks big fat donkey kong.

I dont think the line has flaws i think it fails to live up to the criteria taht YOU have imposed upon it.

Honestly dude chill youve listed half the minicons in there - okay so they are not connected with g1, we got new minicon molds and they had to be released somehow, universe was dead cyb finished so the classics line was just the packaging style they were released in to create some uniformity in brand.

I admitt they do not fit in with the rest of the line but i didnt break down in the middle of the toy aisle renouncing them wishing for them to be cast out for daring to be packaged in such a way.

I for one think the concept of reimaging is much better than a reisssue with some extra joints or something with perfect cartoon accuracy.

Classics Jetfire and grimlock are perfect examples of acknowleging the history and the fans by amalgamating the history and ideas behind the origonal figures and characters.

Perfect accuracy may only be acheived by th masterpieces but dude ive worked in design for years and for a project like that theres so many limiting factors set upon you that go into design its no wonder the fan made customs can look better. Artistic vision is no match for child saftey laws or budget.

No where on the classics packaging does it ever make a claim that 'these are the extact toys you wanted from your childhod updated and accurate beyond reprise to the cartoon'




The source material you hold so dear and use as a benchmark for how tfs SHOULD look was inconsistant filled with errors and created to tell stories about toys that looked vaguely similar to their approxiamtion on screen.
Just because a design came first does not make it the best.





Screw cartoon accuracy - i allways preferred megatrons comic head design more anyway.

MegaDave wrote:I dont think the line has flaws i think it fails to live up to the criteria taht YOU have imposed upon it.

Honestly dude chill youve listed half the minicons in there - okay so they are not connected with g1, we got new minicon molds and they had to be released somehow, universe was dead cyb finished so the classics line was just the packaging style they were released in to create some uniformity in brand.

I admitt they do not fit in with the rest of the line but i didnt break down in the middle of the toy aisle renouncing them wishing for them to be cast out for daring to be packaged in such a way.

I for one think the concept of reimaging is much better than a reisssue with some extra joints or something with perfect cartoon accuracy.

Classics Jetfire and grimlock are perfect examples of acknowleging the history and the fans by amalgamating the history and ideas behind the origonal figures and characters.

Perfect accuracy may only be acheived by th masterpieces but dude ive worked in design for years and for a project like that theres so many limiting factors set upon you that go into design its no wonder the fan made customs can look better. Artistic vision is no match for child saftey laws or budget.

No where on the classics packaging does it ever make a claim that 'these are the extact toys you wanted from your childhod updated and accurate beyond reprise to the cartoon'




The source material you hold so dear and use as a benchmark for how tfs SHOULD look was inconsistant filled with errors and created to tell stories about toys that looked vaguely similar to their approxiamtion on screen.
Just because a design came first does not make it the best.





Screw cartoon accuracy - i allways preferred megatrons comic head design more anyway.

It's not the design of Classics I abhore it's the use of the name "Classics" when clearly theya re nothing of the sort.. Almalgams and redesigned versions of characters Hasbro thinks are updated, is not a classic design or toy of the original..

further more, Masterpiece toys have their plus on being super accurate, and better versions of th eG-1 originals.. I agree that producing a MP line up on a large scale would put alot of kids and parents in hock.. but that is why I don't see why they can't designa nd produce to my or any other standard the level of accuracy put into developing Generation one toys that live up to the level of the orginal designs..

I don't see how a revised and redesigned, or retooled Robot Masters Prime could be so hard to do, or figure out how to keep it well within the toy/child saftey standards.. it's the effort that I think is off..the effort is what needs to be improved.. and yeah the minicons are not part of the classics line, but they were.. and released under that name, with G-1 character names.. so forgive me if I don't share your reasoning of that...

I still think the classics line is undeseredly named and that had they called it something other then classics it would have been a little easier to handle..and ignore or let go alot of the problems with the line..

the fact that there are just a handful of G-1 type toys that I think are great, half the seekers ending up on the botcon sales rack, and QC issues with some of the newer character molds just makes me feel that this line could have been better, and as I said, it's a wake up call for Hasbro's engineers.. after viewing what can and will eventually become a bigger and more surprising market by the custom manufacturers, we could see Hasbro on a rivalry with those same custom toys, due to their inability to inspire and lead the market..

I think that it's a shame that Cost and market are a huge factor when Hasbro defends it's production poroblems and certain Projects that are un doable.. Hasbro should be setting the Bar for what comesout on the Transformable robot scen and not small time customizers.. sure they have the time to place into a new mold.. but if Hasbro cites cost one more time on something, then I say screw it!! Have the Japanese do the leg work, the design and just import the toys like they did in the first place, atleast we can get something that has a special amount of attention to detail and doesn't look like crap!!

I don't hate Hasbro, i like them.. I don't agree with them on things, and I don't always liek their Proiducts.. but that's me.. if you blindly buy whatever they sell then that's you.. it's okay.. but the reasoning behind why they do certain things and why there are certain molds and design aesthetic changes is all conjecture and Opinionated by those of us here.. truth is we'll never know why they took Prime's design int he direction they did , or any other toy for that matter..

I just wish that one day Hasbro really does give us an Updated G-1 toyline, and I don't think it's just for the fans, I think new kids will also pick it up, cartoon or not...

The animated Line of toys comes pretty close to trying to emulate alot of the G-1 verse and Beast Wars, into its toys.. but in all reality, it's another variation and "Reimagining" of the original series, and again I see no difference between that Prime and the Voyager Prime from Classics..

they are just not the real Optimus Prime!!

That said:

I would only recommend you buy certain classics and only these:

Jetfire
Optimus Prime Voyager
Bumblebee
Cliffjumper
Mirage
Starscream
Rodimus
Skywarp
Ultra Magnus
Astrotrain
Megatron
Grimlock and of course
Soundwave.. the rest, even the Devestator are meh...

so okay 13 figures based and I say that again Based on the originals...but not quite what i was wexpecting when I heard the term classics..

this is kind of what I expected to see in classics:

Now imagine if all of the classics toys had been done in the updated G-1 look instead of needless kibble, or additional grooves and pointless knobs to make the toys look more machine like.. or the redesigned bodies of the Optimus Prime.. the only one I think had to change was Megatron..

But just if they had doen it this way, but sturdy and up to toy laws on the plaaybility and sturdyness.. I would have been all over it!! as it is, I don't see classics as the way everyone hailed it to be..

Well, the Classics *are* classics. I mean, just because they don't fit into your definition of what the line ought to be about doesn't mean they aren't Classics to anyone who can accept a little bit of change. I mean it's been 20 years. The idea is to "update" the designs, not to remain slavishly faithful to them when they were made for a TV show unconcerned with the realities of transforming toys.

Someone else mentioned that there's no real-life based Primes ... what about Movie Prime then? Don't have him, but isn't that supposed to be the point of him? And the entire movie line?

I don't get why you're faulting "needless kibble" on modern toys as opposed to the G1s. I love G1 too, but Grimlock had a dino head on his back and two "wings". Let's also not forget the "wings" on Prowl, Jazz, and all the like-transformign Autobot cars. And the seekers. I love the Seeker look, but those wings are the definition of kibble!

Kibble's really the definitive look of Transformers. Having car bits hanging off and adding to the look is what makes the franchise. At least in my eyes. The Seekers have hugeass wings on their back ... that's kibble AND it's what makes them *look* like G1 Seekers. Scourge's wings too. He's the origional shellformer.

As for kids, I remember remarking on how awsome Powermaster Prime was because he "looked exactly like the cartoon". In both modes. And he looks nothing like the cartoon! Of course this was the era whrere nothing looked like the show (TMNT comes to mind) so that reality is flexible.

But even the Masterpeices don't look like the Show. I mean, not really. Ignoring the Seeker's legs for a moment, they are much too detailed to proerly refer to the show. Megatron's cannon looks odd turned around show-like. And Prime is MUCH too detailed to properly represent his show-self.

The absolutly best way to represent the origional show is non-transforming lines like Heroes of Cybertron. Because the show models used alot of cheats to both transform and be articulate.

Yeah, the Classics were the best thing to hit G1 since Alternators. AND they're cheaper. I just can't bash anythign about it. Aside from poor quality control. And the reuse of Energon molds, so I'll give you the point on Devestator. They coulda remolded the head on that one, at least.

And those models are HUNDREADS of dollars to buy. A line of TFs that cose HUNDREADS OF DOLLARS is insane.

I mean, the classics gave us guys like Thrust and Mirage! Yeah, it kinda sucks that they cheaped out on many guys, but it's a filler line. Gotta remember the realities of toy manufacturing.

That said, this thread reminds me of this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JEs_cNhEt0

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, the Classics *are* classics. I mean, just because they don't fit into your definition of what the lin eought to be about doesn't mean they aren't Classics to anyone who can accept a little bbit of change. I mean it's been 20 years.

Someone else mentioned that there's no real-life based Primes ... what about Movie Prime then? Don't have him, but isn't that supposed to be the point of him?

I don't get why you're faulting "needless kibble" on modern toys as opposed to the G1s. I love G1 too, but Grimlock had a dino head on his back and two "wings". Let's also not forget the "wings" on Prowl, Jazz, and all the like-transformign Autobot cars. And the seekers. I love the Seeker look, but those wings are the definition of kibble!

Kibble's really the definitive look of Transformers. Having car bits hanging off and adding to the look is what makes the franchise. At least in my eyes.

As for kids, I remember remarking on how awsome Powermaster Prime was because he "looked exactly like the cartoon". In both modes. Of course this was the era whrere nothign looked like the show (TMNT comes to mind) so that reality is flexible.

But even the Masterpeices don't look like the Show. I mean, not really. Ignoring the Seeker's legs for a moment, they are much too detailed to proerly refer to the show. Megatron's cannon looks odd turned around show-like. And Prime is MUCh too detailed to properly represent his show-self.

The absolutly best way to represent the origional show is non-transforming lines like Heroes of Cybertron. Because the show models used alot of cheats to both transform and be articulate.

Yeah, the Classics were the best thing to hit G1 since ALternators. AND they're cheaper. I just can't bash anythign about it. Aside from poor quality control.

And those models are HUNDREADS of dollars to buy. A line of TFs that cose HUNDREADS OF DOLLARS is insane.

That said, this thread reminds me of this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-JEs_cNhEt0

that is a funny video...

in a way that end result of Prime is kinda how I feel Hasbro took the design of Voyager classics prime..

Yeah. Heh, I may disagree with you, but your argument definately reminded me of that vid.

Skywarp-2, you've been citing the Jizaitoys customs as being the sort of standard that you wanted to see for Classics. I've got Cyclonus, actually the metallic version pictured in your post above, and much as he's cartoon acurate, much as he displays beautifully (after spending twenty minutes getting the elbow to stay in place), much as I enjoy having the piece in my collection...

It's just not a toy.

The design is riddled with flaws. It comes apart in four or five different places when you transform it (I simply don't after the first time), the joints are floppy and of a style not used on Hasbro product for a reason and it just feels fragile compared to an official toy.

Yes the asthetics are great, but it really shouldn't be held up as any kind of gold standard. If Hasbro were to acquire the design (and that's not something that they do anyway) it would need to be taken back to basics and structurally redesigned from the ground up to make it a salable toy.

I know that where you're coming from here is a point of design ideals but it's worth bearing in mind that the main reason that people like Jizaitoys and Rabid Squirrel are able to make things with any degree of cartoon acuracy is that they don't have to apply commercial standards to the product in the same way that a big company does.

Plus I really like my Classics (had to be said).

waaaaghlord wrote:Skywarp-2, you've been citing the Jizaitoys customs as being the sort of standard that you wanted to see for Classics. I've got Cyclonus, actually the metallic version pictured in your post above, and much as he's cartoon acurate, much as he displays beautifully (after spending twenty minutes getting the elbow to stay in place), much as I enjoy having the piece in my collection...

It's just not a toy.

The design is riddled with flaws. It comes apart in four or five different places when you transform it (I simply don't after the first time), the joints are floppy and of a style not used on Hasbro product for a reason and it just feels fragile compared to an official toy.

Yes the asthetics are great, but it really shouldn't be held up as any kind of gold standard. If Hasbro were to acquire the design (and that's not something that they do anyway) it would need to be taken back to basics and structurally redesigned from the ground up to make it a salable toy.

I know that where you're coming from here is a point of design ideals but it's worth bearing in mind that the main reason that people like Jizaitoys and Rabid Squirrel are able to make things with any degree of cartoon acuracy is that they don't have to apply commercial standards to the product in the same way that a big company does.

Plus I really like my Classics (had to be said).

And I agree with you, the standard isn't the jizaitoys design as much as the look and feel of it as close to that of the cartoon in terms of accuracy.. All I'm saying is that hasbro has the know how and engineering skills to porodcue that type of figure.. but structurally stable and joint wise alot tougher.. it's not the exact design i want them to fdo, just do a design that mirrors the cartoon as the Jizaitoys customs have done..

But I feel that this will never actually come to pass, because I think, that the future of the Transformers is going the Way of the Animated series, and the Movie lines.. I see that the Universe figures will try to fill the void for the rest of the fandom, but in all fairness, i don't think hasbro will be as faithful to that toy line as they are gonna be to Animated.. they really want to rethink the whole concept for a New Generation and while A/E/C was a good run..it's not what i think hasbro wants to continue with going forward..I seriously feel in my gut that TRansformers Universe will get less and less attention over time..and eventually not have anything close to classics or what we have been discussing in this thread.. maybe some other company like Jizaitoys willrework the designs and make them more solid for us fans with a more cheaper cost int he future.. till then I have to say, i wish Hasbro could have done better.. if the next few years are gonna be the last horray for the G-1 universe Transformers, then they should be their best..

But skywarp-2 you forget there is a little show called power rangers which transformers is now competing with for kids attition. So hasbro says how can we get kids and parents intrested in our product over theres. Unlike g.i. joe which is aimed at adult collectors now for the most part after g.i. joe sigma six bombed. So hasbro is focusing on the kid friendly market with transformers while ever once in a while throwing the adult collector a bone in the form of classic 2.0/universe. If you want g1 era figures then stick with takara who will continue to produce these type of figures.

I wish I was egocentric enough to start a thread everytime I don't like something.

Sledge wrote:I wish I was egocentric enough to start a thread everytime I don't like something.

you can!! it's called freedom of speech and not being afraid to speak your mind.. but that comes from the power within an individual.. seek the power within, and you shall be free to start egocentric threads..

shortround wrote:But skywarp-2 you forget there is a little show called power rangers which transformers is now competing with for kids attition. So hasbro says how can we get kids and parents intrested in our product over theres. Unlike g.i. joe which is aimed at adult collectors now for the most part after g.i. joe sigma six bombed. So hasbro is focusing on the kid friendly market with transformers while ever once in a while throwing the adult collector a bone in the form of classic 2.0/universe.

I understand why they are doing the "Animated" toys and why the change is to keep their share of the market, and compete with other toys like Power rangers and what not.. but what I'm worried about is that "Bone" so to speak that are thrown at us collectors will eventually dwindle to 2 to 3 figures and we will become passay in terms of what we consider transformer toys..being out dated sucks!!

shortround wrote:If you want g1 era figures then stick with takara who will continue to produce these type of figures.

So now I have to become Hasbro and import toys from japan.. well, nothing new there, 90% of my collection is from Takara Tomy..with the exception of the Movie figures..

Again let me set the record straight, it's not classics I hate, it's the manner in which they modified the characters and label they set them under.. to me, if they had really done a classics line up that would have been a huge seller it would have been alot of new molds, and very closely sculpted to the animation and engineered as closely as possible to that design..as it is, they hit a few spots nicely, but overall I think they could have done better..

And if thinking Hasbro could have done better makes me Egocentric, then fine that's what I am..why should I have to be satisfied with what hasbro has released?? Why can't I as a Fan demand more?? is this America or a conformist country, where ideas and discontent are taught to be squashed?

I am glad that they did classics, it was astep in the right direction, i just wish that they finally geot to their destination, then if all the toys that come out after that are in the Animated style and the movie style, I would be okay, cause atleast I got the best updated ones from g-1 one last time..

Are they likely to do more G1-centric releases, though? In the time of the live-action movie it made sense: the glut of collector-targeted items and G1-inspired toys was both celebratory of the franchise's roots and a good way of reeling in old fans who were reacquainted with the franchise by the movie. Now that that time has passed, though, I'm not sure Hasbro are on the way to a specific destination, but rather they're already there. With the MP line (which offers G1 show-accuracy, detail and articulation), the Classics line (which is an update or reimagining of G1) and the spate of reissues of G1 toys themselves both by Takara and Hasbro since 2002-ish, I can't imagine Hasbro are desperate to put out even more G1-centric toys.

Certainly, Classics 2.0 / Universe will keep that feeling alive, but as the movie fades into the distance I think they'll probably reduce the number of G1-related goodness until either the next movie or some other milestone in the franchise's life. It's notable that all the recent G1-related merchandise and the new movie happened within a few years of the 20th anniversary, too. Perhaps Hasbro will focus on nostalgia once more when Transformers reaches its 30th or 40th anniversary. Until we reach any of those markers, though, I'm not sure Hasbro are too concerned with pushing out as much G1-related gear as they have been doing.

Leonardo wrote:Are they likely to do more G1-centric releases, though? In the time of the live-action movie it made sense: the glut of collector-targeted items and G1-inspired toys was both celebratory of the franchise's roots and a good way of reeling in old fans who were reacquainted with the franchise by the movie. Now that that time has passed, though, I'm not sure Hasbro are on the way to a specific destination, but rather they're already there. With the MP line (which offers G1 show-accuracy, detail and articulation), the Classics line (which is an update or reimagining of G1) and the spate of reissues of G1 toys themselves both by Takara and Hasbro since 2002-ish, I can't imagine Hasbro are desperate to put out even more G1-centric toys.

Certainly, Classics 2.0 / Universe will keep that feeling alive, but as the movie fades into the distance I think they'll probably reduce the number of G1-related goodness until either the next movie or some other milestone in the franchise's life. It's notable that all the recent G1-related merchandise and the new movie happened within a few years of the 20th anniversary, too. Perhaps Hasbro will focus on nostalgia once more when Transformers reaches its 30th or 40th anniversary. Until we reach any of those markers, though, I'm not sure Hasbro are too concerned with pushing out as much G1-related gear as they have been doing.

I agree with that..

My only gripe was that I wish we could have gotten the Best representations in the Classics line, and none Masterpiece then what we already recieved..but like I said, what's coming out of the customizers corner is kind of a wake up call for Hasbro designers.. these custom toys ssell for large chunks of change, and though hasbro is focusedc on the Kids Market, and a little on the collector side, I really feel that their designers and staff should re-evaluate the collector markets, and produce items that really and truly bring out the Animated look in the toys, like that of the customizers..

There is a share of the Market that hasbro could keep..they should do a Signature series, where by they release 2 to 3 figures a year in low numbers aimed at fans, with a Voyager updated G-1 Prime, or Megatron Abrams tank/Gun Artilery altmode.. or a Dinobot set, or actual G-1 bots that match the original likeness..less detailed, but accurately proportionate..that way we can have the Masterpiece toys, and still have toys that are fun and updated for todays staqndards.. classics is not the exact way I would have thought it should have been.. but then if that is all we will ever have to get as a G-1 fan, then so be it.. I'll buy them form Takara, but I won't have to be satisfied with it..

I may just save up the cash and buy the Jizaitoys versions.. though i hope they sell enough and manufacture enough that down the road a few years there is a whole line up to choose from, and it doesn't cost me a C-Note to buy them..

Certainly, the Jizaitoys designs are splendid but, as has already been stated, those designs compromise playability. Given that I don't work in the business and I'm not an engineer, I have to wonder how easy it is to come up with 'pleasing' designs and offer durability, complex transformations, playability, etc. Maybe it's harder than we imagine.

I think that, for now, we are unlikely to see anything that you (skywarp-2) and sympathisers are hoping for, however Hasbro will never entirely forget G1 and obviously Optimus Prime will continue on. Perhaps it is just a matter of patience. At some point, I'm sure that 'perfect' Optimus Prime will appear. For some people, he already has. For others, it will be a future release.

Leonardo wrote:Certainly, the Jizaitoys designs are splendid but, as has already been stated, those designs compromise playability. Given that I don't work in the business and I'm not an engineer, I have to wonder how easy it is to come up with 'pleasing' designs and offer durability, complex transformations, playability, etc. Maybe it's harder than we imagine.

I think that, for now, we are unlikely to see anything that you (skywarp-2) and sympathisers are hoping for, however Hasbro will never entirely forget G1 and obviously Optimus Prime will continue on. Perhaps it is just a matter of patience. At some point, I'm sure that 'perfect' Optimus Prime will appear. For some people, he already has. For others, it will be a future release.

Words of Wisdom... I always enjoy your level headed posting. thanks..

Hey SKYWARP-2, I'm sure that you already know this, but you can get a RM Prime knock-off thats around 7" tall on ebay for pretty cheap. The quality of the plastic is not too bad. It displays well, and retains that look that you seem to like. You should be able to get one shipped for around $20. I too have been looking for a G-1 Prime thats had a little update, and this was the best I've been able to find.
And I do agree with you on Hasbro's design team. Some molds are really great, but some look like they just had the interns work on them!

returnofplex wrote:Hey SKYWARP-2, I'm sure that you already know this, but you can get a RM Prime knock-off thats around 7" tall on ebay for pretty cheap. The quality of the plastic is not too bad. It displays well, and retains that look that you seem to like. You should be able to get one shipped for around $20. I too have been looking for a G-1 Prime thats had a little update, and this was the best I've been able to find.
And I do agree with you on Hasbro's design team. Some molds are really great, but some look like they just had the interns work on them!

thanks I'll look it up!

actually I wasn't aware of the bootleg, got any links to the ebay sellers pages? What's the bootleg's name?

Leonardo wrote:Certainly, the Jizaitoys designs are splendid but, as has already been stated, those designs compromise playability. Given that I don't work in the business and I'm not an engineer, I have to wonder how easy it is to come up with 'pleasing' designs and offer durability, complex transformations, playability, etc. Maybe it's harder than we imagine.

I don't think it would be that difficult for designers with the resources and manufacturing technologies of Hasbro/Takara. Doing it to a prescribed budget however...

Leonardo wrote: Perhaps it is just a matter of patience. At some point, I'm sure that 'perfect' Optimus Prime will appear. For some people, he already has. For others, it will be a future release.

Now prime sounds like some sort of messiah

Hey SKYWARP-2, this is the link to the prime I was talking about earlier today. sorry it's a little late, I had a busy day


http://cgi.ebay.com/G1-Transformers-Rob ... dZViewItem