The Energon Pub

GetterDragun wrote:

Starscream wrote:All you people claiming botcon exclusive WILL stay botcon exclusives forever are blind and just plain incorrect. There is LAW proclaiming this. You are just spouting your opinions, not any based fact.

SHOULD they stay exclusives? Hell yes, that's the unspoken reason for giving something the "exclusive" moniker.

The first question at this year's hasbro panel SHOULD BE:

"Will it be possible for TakaraTomy to create Henkei repaints of Thundercracker, Dirge, or Thrust, being that they were the exclusive figures from Botcon 2007?"

Put archer and FP in the hot seat right off the bat! Do it early because the panel only lasts so long!

I think you missed the thread where I asked Aaron this at Toy Fair and he said no. But does that mean anything, no. He also said no reissue Soundwave in the US. But they have been good with honoring exclusives on both sides of the pond, so why wouldn't they now?

Ask him again, and tell him not to lie this time

I just re-read my previous statement I sound kind of strange, because I mean to say "there is NO LAW..." not there is LAW. Makes me sound very contradictory.. :-T

Oops!

Anyone else thinking it's coincidental that Takara is using Skywarp and Thundercracker in the Encore line at EXACTLY the same time that they are releasing Henkei?

I'm thinking that they will be "Encore-ing" all Botcon Classics to release the characters, but not step on Fun Pub's toes. So expect Encore Dirge and Thrust with the possibility of Dreadwind and Darkwing.

I could be wrong though.

I hope not. I was really hoping to get a Henkei style Skywarp with nicer purple. =( Still there's no guarantee they'll do any repaints at all. Even the ones that weren't exclusives.

I don't really need another G1 Skywarp to go with the four I already have.

Fender Bender wrote:Anyone else thinking it's coincidental that Takara is using Skywarp and Thundercracker in the Encore line at EXACTLY the same time that they are releasing Henkei?

I'm thinking that they will be "Encore-ing" all Botcon Classics to release the characters, but not step on Fun Pub's toes. So expect Encore Dirge and Thrust with the possibility of Dreadwind and Darkwing.

I could be wrong though.

That would be so sweet since I desperately want a minty fresh G1 Thrust & Ramjet to complete my G1 seekers. Yes, I'm greedy that way. I have the complete Classics seekers and I want to complete the G1 seekers!

It still blows my mind that Hasbro was stupid enough to make those figures exclusives.

NO I'm not saying they should've been released in same wave with the original Classics,
and NO I'm not saying they should've been released with the first waveS of Classics at all.

When was Botcon '07? In March? April?
The new Universe line will be ON shelves in August, which means at most about 17 months later.
When did the first news of new classic figures leak?
Either way, I ask because if it was a while ago,
that means that Hasbro's decision to make more classic figures was that much closer to when the Seekers were released at Botcon.

The argument of, "Well, some people were able to buy the set, which is better than no one having them" doesn't hold much weight
when the Universe line would have been PERFECT to start putting out the other 3 Seekers (again, I'm not saying all of them in the same wave).
The average person who wants these figures doesn't want them because of the exclusive status they now have,
it's because they're figures of CLASSIC, ORIGINAL G1 characters.
Talk about repaints that would've sold...
And yes, I understand that there would've been slight re-tooling involved,
but the money that Hasbro would've made would've made this a win-win.
I mean people who have no interest in Seekers would most likely agree that a Classics Thundercracker would undisputedly out-sell the "new" Heavy Load, and Blaster.
I would make this same argument even if TC was NEVER released as an exlcusive.
I truly believe that TONS of people would've bought him.
And being that these "new" voyager figures aren't even 100% new, the same argument could legitimately be made for Thrust and Dirge selling just as well.

I understand that there's about a .0032% chance that these figures will ever be mass-released, even if the color schemes are changed.

It's just frustrating that Hasbro, being the money hungry whore that it is, would make a decision that's just so ridiculously DUMB.

Sowndwave76 wrote:When did the first news of new classic figures leak?

It wasn’t leaked it was announced at comic-con.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Talk about repaints that would've sold...

Yup, there would have been hungry fans out in the millions flocking to their local stores, uh huh, yeah.

Nekoman wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:When did the first news of new classic figures leak?

It wasn’t leaked it was announced at comic-con.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Talk about repaints that would've sold...

Yup, there would have been hungry fans out in the millions flocking to their local stores, uh huh, yeah.

So if there weren't even any rumors before hand, when was comic-con?

And no one said anything about "millions", or even close to that...
The point was there are a LOT of people who would've bought at least one of those figures for $9.99.

Nekoman wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:When did the first news of new classic figures leak?

It wasn’t leaked it was announced at comic-con.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Talk about repaints that would've sold...

Yup, there would have been hungry fans out in the millions flocking to their local stores, uh huh, yeah.

Actually it was announced at last years Botcon, which was a little before SDCC.

I can all ready smell the flame wars coming...


Hasbro knows what's best for them. Someone had all ready made the decision not to sell 6 of the same figure at mass retail, and so they did the next best thing: let the con take care of the fans giving them the repaints.

Starscream wrote:Hasbro knows what's best for them. Someone had all ready made the decision not to sell 6 of the same figure at mass retail, and so they did the next best thing: let the con take care of the fans giving them the repaints.

Well said! And said so simply too.

Sowndwave76 wrote:It still blows my mind that Hasbro was stupid enough to make those figures exclusives.

NO I'm not saying they should've been released in same wave with the original Classics,
and NO I'm not saying they should've been released with the first waveS of Classics at all.

When was Botcon '07? In March? April?
The new Universe line will be ON shelves in August, which means at most about 17 months later.
When did the first news of new classic figures leak?
Either way, I ask because if it was a while ago,
that means that Hasbro's decision to make more classic figures was that much closer to when the Seekers were released at Botcon.

The argument of, "Well, some people were able to buy the set, which is better than no one having them" doesn't hold much weight
when the Universe line would have been PERFECT to start putting out the other 3 Seekers (again, I'm not saying all of them in the same wave).
The average person who wants these figures doesn't want them because of the exclusive status they now have,
it's because they're figures of CLASSIC, ORIGINAL G1 characters.
Talk about repaints that would've sold...
And yes, I understand that there would've been slight re-tooling involved,
but the money that Hasbro would've made would've made this a win-win.
I mean people who have no interest in Seekers would most likely agree that a Classics Thundercracker would undisputedly out-sell the "new" Heavy Load, and Blaster.
I would make this same argument even if TC was NEVER released as an exlcusive.
I truly believe that TONS of people would've bought him.
And being that these "new" voyager figures aren't even 100% new, the same argument could legitimately be made for Thrust and Dirge selling just as well.

I understand that there's about a .0032% chance that these figures will ever be mass-released, even if the color schemes are changed.

It's just frustrating that Hasbro, being the money hungry whore that it is, would make a decision that's just so ridiculously DUMB.

Dude, you have to relax and remember the timeline here. Hasbro made a firm decision to stop the classics before the seekers were completed because the Classics was intended to only be a filler line between Cybertron and the movie line.

It was well after that decision and probably after 2007 Botcon set selling so well that Hasbro probably realized they had a little gold nugget of a potentialy great line. Once that realization hit them they moved forward to creating the Classics 2.0 line. In fact, I believe the Classics 2.0 line was officially announced at the most recent SDCC if I'm not mistaken.

At least we have proof in the form of a specific TF line that Hasbro is listening to us fans! But I really would not recommend anyone hoping too much that the Botcon seekers will be released mass retail in any market. The history of Botcon exclusives just doesn't support that possibility.

Sowndwave76 wrote:And no one said anything about "millions", or even close to that...
The point was there are a LOT of people who would've bought at least one of those figures for $9.99.

A lot of older collectors would, but I have to wonder if a kid would buy the same jet SIX times since that’s who these toys target mainly. Fans, the older ones at least, only make up twenty percent of the sales AT MOST, but I always heard that it was more like fifteen.

Kids being the larger sum of buyers may not buy the same jet six times just cause it’s a homage to a sub team they have probably never heard of. I could easily see Dirge and Thrust being peg warmers, especially since Ramjet was already.

Geekee1 wrote:

Nekoman wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:When did the first news of new classic figures leak?

It wasn’t leaked it was announced at comic-con.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Talk about repaints that would've sold...

Yup, there would have been hungry fans out in the millions flocking to their local stores, uh huh, yeah.

Actually it was announced at last years Botcon, which was a little before SDCC.

Okay, I think I got a little mixed up, it was first announced at Botcon, but the first three concept sketches were shown at comic-con. A quick news search helped me a good bit.

First let me say that this post and the previous post are NOT arguments for a company to release the exclusive Seekers... I thought that was pretty clear.

Second, I'm a little confused... Were the Seekers released at last year's Botcon? Because someone said that news of Classics 2.0 was also released then...
IF this is true, than this is where my frustration is.
With Hasbro's love of releasing repaints, the last 3 Seekers could've been held back, and dispersed through the Universe line.

And thanks for not attacking my views, and just discussing this topic.

Here are some of my responses:

I don't agree that the Botcon set was the "next best choice" when we're getting more classics this August. Period.
Again, this is where my whole argument stems from.

No one said that kids, or anyone for that matter, would buy 6 Seekers...
Trying to figure out if people would buy ALL 6 isn't imo a reason to make or not make 3 figures.
I also don't think that would be a motivating factor for Hasbro.
I would think it would be based on the fact that these repaints/slight re-tools would sell really well, while not costing them much at all.
There will be people (young and old) who in August or after will buy their first figures from the Universe line.
Whether these people have ANY of the first classics or not,
there's a good chance that they would buy one of the remaining 3 Seekers (remember, ONE per wave).
Think about it-- I could see a ton of people, not even just fans or collectors buying Prowl, Sunstreaker, Galvatron, and Thrust.
Whatever the combo of figures might be, what would be the glaring variable or element that would turn tons of people AWAY from buying the ONE jet that's in that wave?
While I personally like the color schemes of TC, Dirge, and Thrust,
I can honestly say outside of any bias that those seem like common and "normal" enough colors that color itself wouldn't really be an issue for people.
I really believe that a Seeker would outsell Blaster or Heavy Load.
And I mean this in the case that the exclusive set was NEVER sold...
So take out, "well with how many people want them now because they can't have them...".
I just really think that in the grand scheme of G1 Decepticon characters, these figures would sell.
Now obviously, the Seeker would be in a different class, but as far as the repainted figures in Universe line are concerned,
also consider the costs:
$9.99 vs. $25.99 is a big difference whether it's for a new collector, casual buyer, or a kid's mom or dad.
Also remember that as everyone keeps saying 6 Seekers, no one is saying that even 2 of them would or should be released in the same wave.
In fact, if there ends up being more than 3 waves in the Universe line,
then there would be at least one that doesn't have a Seeker at all.
Besides all of this, can't Hasbro decide how many figures of one figure will be produced?
No one's saying that there should be as many Thrusts made as there were Classics Primes.
I mean, when they officially stop producing the movie figures, did they truly produce the same number of every deluxe mold????

No, I don't know Hasbro's official time frame, and I've said this before, but I don't buy for a second that Hasbro truly thought that they would NEVER ever make other classics figures.
I may even buy into the thought that maybe it was their initial idea... But to even say it was a "firm" decision doesn't seem legit.
Could someone please do the math for us and figure out how many months were between the release of the Botcon set, and the official word that new classics would be made?
On top of that, I'd be curious to know how long Hasbro had internally been discussing making more classics before the news was officially released.
When this news broke, were there concept drawings released at the same time? Either way, sketches had to have been in the works for a little bit... Plus the initial discussions of which characters would be worked on, etc.
Maybe all of this happened a week before they released the news...
It just doesn't seem likely.

I also don't buy that they would start up a new line that would be mass-released based on the sales of a set of very limited exclusives.
Those who bought that set make up a very skewed consumer group compared to the mass public.


Thoughts??

The only instance I can see of a Botcon exclusive getting a mass release would be the Jazz repaint/remold of Crosswise. I have a feeling that will be released in G1 colors in Universe, and be able to get by any legal entanglements because the BC set is an alternate Universe version of the mold, and will be a different character.

Thoughts?

Sowndwave76 wrote:Second, I'm a little confused... Were the Seekers released at last year's Botcon? Because someone said that news of Classics 2.0 was also released then...
IF this is true, than this is where my frustration is.
With Hasbro's love of releasing repaints, the last 3 Seekers could've been held back, and dispersed through the Universe line.

You are correct, Universe was announced at last years Botcon, which was the year they had the Seekers as the exclusive set.

No one said that kids, or anyone for that matter, would buy 6 Seekers...
Trying to figure out if people would buy ALL 6 isn't imo a reason to make or not make 3 figures.
I also don't think that would be a motivating factor for Hasbro.
I would think it would be based on the fact that these repaints/slight re-tools would sell really well, while not costing them much at all.

Repaints are indeed cheap, but if too many are made you just create unwanted product, for example:

Timmy and his friend buy TC. A month later wave two comes out with Dirge, Timmy thinks hard, but buys Dirge, hid friend does not. So then, next month comes, wave three is out, Timmy has got the choice between buying the same toy for the third time or something else, even a different TF repaint. Timmy and his friend decide they are tired of the toy and go for Smokescreen.

See, by wave three no one’s going to buy it and then the stores eventually end up with eight pegs of Thrust and have to either a: clearance them for a ridiculous mark down or b: send them back to Hasbro. Hasbro loses profit.

Also, Ramjet was already a shelf warmer and in the end of classics you can guess what isle he was warming, it wasn’t the toy one.

I really believe that a Seeker would outsell Blaster or Heavy Load.

Maybe the first seeker, but then the second one doesn’t sell as well, and the third one would barely sell at all.

Also remember that as everyone keeps saying 6 Seekers, no one is saying that even 2 of them would or should be released in the same wave.

It doesn’t mater how they release them, they probably still wouldn’t sell, Ramjet was in wave three and like I said they could barely get rid of him.

At the time of Hasbro approving the Botcon Exclusive seekers, classics was supposed to be dead, remember this license stuff takes long, Botcon could have bought the license for them at the begining of Classics!
Hasbro had decided to revive the classics line just before Botcon, I say maybe 2or 3 months. Meaning that the Universe announcement has nothing to do with the Seeker exclusives.

Also they could have released 2 seekers every 6 months.

I think the first seeker would sell well enough that they would be able to justify putting out the 3rd.
When they are released would make a difference imo.
In fact, if they put out the Seeker who required more re-tooling first, and it did sell well, the other two would essentially TRULY be repaints.
Also, if Hasbro has learned their lesson with figures such as Arcee and Payload, they should know to make runs of fewer numbers if/when sales start dropping.
Actually, a smart way to release the 3rd one could be to throw him in a 2-pack with a highly desired Autobot.
I'm 99% sure I wouldn't own Magnus right now if I didn't HAVE to buy him to get Skywarp.
Something like Sideswipe/Dirge (2 repaints like the other 2 pk).
And if it's an exclusive 2 pack, then fewer figures of Dirge would be made.
Now if you're thinking, "You're saying you'd want a Seeker to be an exclusive???!!!!??",
the average person has little trouble getting to a Target, and even less trouble getting to a Walmart.
Not to mention online stores.

If people buy 2 of the 3 Seekers, isn't that pretty good?
There's no way that every figure sells WELL. Look at the two movie figs. that I've already mentioned.
And again, really, 2 of the Seekers are pretty much 100% repaints.
So one of them totally bombing isn't AS big of a loss.

I understand what happened with Ramjet being a "warmer", but there's waay more of a renewed interest in TF right now.
Of course I'm not saying that Hasbro could've predicted this.
BUT, if the last 3 were never released at Botcon (which is what this whole discussion is about),
then this wouldn't really be much of a valid argument.

I guess I'm curious as to how many months were in between the announcement of the end of the Classics and the announcement of new classics.
WHY?
Because I think it may help validate my point that Hasbro's statement to "end classics" is not legit.
WHICH, makes the decision to release the Seekers as such limited exclusives a ridiculously absurd move.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think the first seeker would sell well enough that they would be able to justify putting out the 3rd.
When they are released would make a difference imo.
In fact, if they put out the Seeker who required more re-tooling first, and it did sell well, the other two would essentially TRULY be repaints.
Also, if Hasbro has learned their lesson with figures such as Arcee and Payload, they should know to make runs of fewer numbers if/when sales start dropping.
Actually, a smart way to release the 3rd one could be to throw him in a 2-pack with a highly desired Autobot.
I'm 99% sure I wouldn't own Magnus right now if I didn't HAVE to buy him to get Skywarp.
Something like Sideswipe/Dirge (2 repaints like the other 2 pk).
And if it's an exclusive 2 pack, then fewer figures of Dirge would be made.
Now if you're thinking, "You're saying you'd want a Seeker to be an exclusive???!!!!??",
the average person has little trouble getting to a Target, and even less trouble getting to a Walmart.
Not to mention online stores.

If people buy 2 of the 3 Seekers, isn't that pretty good?
There's no way that every figure sells WELL. Look at the two movie figs. that I've already mentioned.
And again, really, 2 of the Seekers are pretty much 100% repaints.
So one of them totally bombing isn't AS big of a loss.

I understand what happened with Ramjet being a "warmer", but there's waay more of a renewed interest in TF right now.
Of course I'm not saying that Hasbro could've predicted this.
BUT, if the last 3 were never released at Botcon (which is what this whole discussion is about),
then this wouldn't really be much of a valid argument.

I guess I'm curious as to how many months were in between the announcement of the end of the Classics and the announcement of new classics.
WHY?
Because I think it may help validate my point that Hasbro's statement to "end classics" is not legit.
WHICH, makes the decision to release the Seekers as such limited exclusives a ridiculously absurd move.

I can give you exact dates but ZI remember hearing rumors about the cancellation of the Classic line before the movie figures hit the stores.

Were the seekers released in the Henkei line yet? Previews? Pictures?..

No?

Hrm.

Counterpunch wrote:Were the seekers released in the Henkei line yet? Previews? Pictures?..

No?

Hrm.

Normally I have great respect for you and your post CP but now your rubbing it in our faces

Counterpunch wrote:Were the seekers released in the Henkei line yet? Previews? Pictures?..

No?

Hrm.

give them a bloody chance, the line is barely out the door!

ThunderThruster wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Were the seekers released in the Henkei line yet? Previews? Pictures?..

No?

Hrm.

give them a bloody chance, the line is barely out the door!

Well, we’ve already heard about two of their releases for late this year and neither of them were Botcon exclusives.

Seriously, CP has a point, its been a while, where’s the seekers. Hmm?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Were the seekers released in the Henkei line yet? Previews? Pictures?..

No?

Hrm.

Normally I have great respect for you and your post CP but now your rubbing it in our faces

That's really not what I mean to do...

Counterpunch wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Were the seekers released in the Henkei line yet? Previews? Pictures?..

No?

Hrm.

Normally I have great respect for you and your post CP but now your rubbing it in our faces

That's really not what I mean to do...

You are forgivvin