The Energon Pub

I'm not sure if anyone else has tried but Classics Prime does seem to tow Powermaster Prime's trailer quite nicely. I don't have any other trailer to try, though. That said, it looks daft because in the design and quality of the toys there are visibile differences. I imagine this would be the same if one attached the 1984 trailer to Classics Prime.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I just feel like the "it's not G1 enough" argument is a really bad one and completely fan-centric without regards to outside factors.

To me, complaining about paint apps, easily corrected sculpting problems, assembly errors, fragility, and lack of new heads seem to be very logical arguments. These are the sorta arguments that make alot of sence.

But complaining that it isn't slavishly faithful to a cartoon show from 20 years ago when they are clearly upgraded figures doesn't make any sence. The cartoon models don't actually transform. Moreover they're 80's vehicles, this is the new millenium. The design astetic is blocky and plain where modern toys have to be fairly complex and fluid. The cartoon models don't exactly lend themselves to articulation either; alot of that movement is not possible.

I mean, at a certain point, you have to stand back and say "the Neo G1 stuff is a refreshing blast from the past" instead of complaining that it isn't slavishly recrating your childhood.

Agreed 100%.

Even with my minor nitpicks about some of the figures, I nevertheless consider the Classics to be the epitome of what G1 should look like in toy form. In fact, I would gladly trade every G1 figure I have for an upgraded, better articulated, good in BOTH modes, toon accurate Classics version if I had to... except for that sorry excuse of a Devastator set, the Botcon bonus figures (Springer, Huffer, etc.) and NERF Megatron. This is how I always wanted G1 to look but never knew it until the Classics showed up. Bumblebee has never looked better, the Seekers are damn near perfect deadringers in both modes to their animated versions, Rodimus finally looks like Hot Rod, Astrotrain is no longer stuck in a time warp as a locomotive, Mirage is now every bit of the agile looking spy he was depicted as, Prime has never been more articulated, Grimlock (in dino mode) is no longer just a brick with teeth, and Jetfire is finally the first ever toy depiction of Skyfire.

IMO, the worst Classic (new mold - not leftover repaint) is still better than the best G1 toy, and likely the first time we'll ever see proper alt mode AND bot mode versions of these characters. Just look at what he have now and look at the upcoming figures like Sideswipe & Sunstreaker. Hell, even the limited articulation G1 Titaniums of Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus & Scourge absolutely blow away the originals. Add to that, those versions of Rodimus & Magnus are literally the first AND only versions to ever keep them as animation/comic accurate single-piece figures that have no extra parts or involve combining pieces.

How anyone could complain or negatively compare any of these upgraded designs to G1 is beyond me.

skywarp-2 wrote:that's wierd?? I thought that he didn't have a trailer port.. hmmm maybe they were gonna do one, but changed their minds..

I really wish they had rethought Voyager Prime's forearms, and given him some yellow triangles instead of paint brushes.. he looks like he's a handy man waiting to fix something!! the spatula says he's a cook.. some minor changes should have been done before it left the factory..

Re: your "hilarious" (?) image

Spatulas? Paint brushes? Are you high? Now, can't you just put "I don't like the Classics line that much" in your sig and STFU about it? You are clearly in a very small minority on this one. Most people thought the Classics line was great (it was), and are looking forward to next year's additions. And complaining about PRIME? One of the best figures in the Classics line-up? My standard advice applies here: if you don't like it, don't buy it.

skywarp-2 is our cynical conspiracy theorist. While most of us are happy with what's good about TF's, he's habitually negative about everything else.

I say ... enjoy your toys. Hasbro will do what they will, so deal with it.

It's nice to see both sides of things, but we can only take so much dude.

Geez!! I am not Habitually Negative and as far as the STFU commment from Sledge, G. F... Y...S...! I don't appreciate that.. i was simply debating things I thought could have and should In my opinion be done better..

I never said I didn't like Classics, but I do think it could have been better.. that's all..

the trailer thing was not my idea, and I was not saying that the Prime toy should be back wards compatible, I was simply stating that the G-1 Prime toy has seen alot of circulation in recent years..

I don't think classics is the Best representation of G-1 in years..I think its a good start, but not in anyway Updating it..there were alot of changes..changes I think that could havebeen delt with better..

Paint applications and removal of parts to reassemnble because of poor QC issues, are legitiment arguements.. Ok, I'll buy that..

But why can't poor aesthetics be a good legitiment reason to not like a figure?? what I can't be down on the designs of some of the toys?

I think classics are good toys, i've been saying that all along, there are issues I have with some of them.. to me, it's just not G-1 it's an alternate universe of G-1-ish bots..that's how I look at it..

We have the Masterpiece toys, yes, we have classics.. but until I see A truly Faithful G-1 toy-ish Prime instead of having ones that are fragile, I'm never gonna be satisfied..

still.. I have to say that I was surprised by the Jetfire design, my only gripe, I wish he were taller and his name on the package was Skyfire..but that I can live without..

if I'm in a small minority here, then that is okay by me.. we are the fans that I think Hasbro should strive to reach, while they produce for the masses..we are the challenge for them..and challenge is not a bad thing, it promotes raising the bar to meet those goals..

I will tell you my favorite classics:

Jetfire Great G-1 Homage (only gripe he should have been huge!!)
Optimus Prime Voyager/Ultra Magnus (Nice figure, but I wish the Arms had a Triangle and no paint brush, no spatula crotch and Flat shoulders with an autobot symbol would have been nice)
Bumblebee/Cliffjumper (great update, but cliffjumper should have gotten a new head sculpt)
Grimlock (nice WWI and G-1 cross Homage, but the legs were kinda weak)
Bonecrusher (always loved that design)
Starscream (2nd version is the best)
Skywarp (excellent)
Rodimus (barring shoulder problems, he's quite nice)
Ramjet (misses his brothers )
Mirage..(nicely done, wish he could have had the back rack removeable)

sadly the rest I like were never released Mass retail..

So I don't hate classics, I just think there were things that could have been better.. and I don't think that's being unreasonable in my opinion..just a normal person's dislikes..

Besides this isn't the Classics love thread.. reread the title!! And "please" get off my back..

I've said it time and again that I respect all your opinions, and I think that coming down on me like 4 in row is kinda harsh especially when someone decideds to say STFU.. I never went that far in my responses to you in debating.. and I think that's kinda wrong to say that to me..and that picture on the" Your, You're, you" was funny but It felt directed at me for some reason..


So Sledge I'm sorry about the G. F... Y...S...! But the STFU part you said earlier was kinda Mean!!! I haven't personally attacked you during this thread...why do you do that to me??

Thank you to the following three posters... I was beginning to think I had missed out on the 'crazy-pill' dosage for the morning.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I just feel like the "it's not G1 enough" argument is a really bad one and completely fan-centric without regards to outside factors.

To me, complaining about paint apps, easily corrected sculpting problems, assembly errors, fragility, and lack of new heads seem to be very logical arguments. These are the sorta arguments that make alot of sence.

But complaining that it isn't slavishly faithful to a cartoon show from 20 years ago when they are clearly upgraded figures doesn't make any sence. The cartoon models don't actually transform. Moreover they're 80's vehicles, this is the new millenium. The design astetic is blocky and plain where modern toys have to be fairly complex and fluid. The cartoon models don't exactly lend themselves to articulation either; alot of that movement is not possible.

I mean, at a certain point, you have to stand back and say "the Neo G1 stuff is a refreshing blast from the past" instead of complaining that it isn't slavishly recrating your childhood.

Excellent post.

Sledge wrote:Spatulas? Paint brushes? Are you high? Now, can't you just put "I don't like the Classics line that much" in your sig and STFU about it? You are clearly in a very small minority on this one. Most people thought the Classics line was great (it was), and are looking forward to next year's additions. And complaining about PRIME? One of the best figures in the Classics line-up? My standard advice applies here: if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Yes.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:skywarp-2 is our cynical conspiracy theorist. While most of us are happy with what's good about TF's, he's habitually negative about everything else.

I say ... enjoy your toys. Hasbro will do what they will, so deal with it.

It's nice to see both sides of things, but we can only take so much dude.

That's because in discussions like this, there is no real discussion. The OP is "acknowledging" the fact that other people are bringing up legitimate arguments and points but is in the same breath not actually considering the argument of the other side.

Perfectly legitimate statements are glossed over because they strain the personal credulity of Skywarp-2's argument that we can somehow drastically alter Hasbro's designs.

And directly, Skywarp-2, you are habitually negative. Nothing is ever good enough. When you start arguing that Classics isn't a good enough modernization of G1, well, people are just not going to give credit to your arguments anymore.

Besides, if you start a wide open discussion like this and argue a left field point of view, you're going to have to defend the hell out of it before you get some respect for your position.

Counterpunch wrote:Thank you to the following three posters... I was beginning to think I had missed out on the 'crazy-pill' dosage for the morning.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I just feel like the "it's not G1 enough" argument is a really bad one and completely fan-centric without regards to outside factors.

To me, complaining about paint apps, easily corrected sculpting problems, assembly errors, fragility, and lack of new heads seem to be very logical arguments. These are the sorta arguments that make alot of sence.

But complaining that it isn't slavishly faithful to a cartoon show from 20 years ago when they are clearly upgraded figures doesn't make any sence. The cartoon models don't actually transform. Moreover they're 80's vehicles, this is the new millenium. The design astetic is blocky and plain where modern toys have to be fairly complex and fluid. The cartoon models don't exactly lend themselves to articulation either; alot of that movement is not possible.

I mean, at a certain point, you have to stand back and say "the Neo G1 stuff is a refreshing blast from the past" instead of complaining that it isn't slavishly recrating your childhood.

Excellent post.

Sledge wrote:Spatulas? Paint brushes? Are you high? Now, can't you just put "I don't like the Classics line that much" in your sig and STFU about it? You are clearly in a very small minority on this one. Most people thought the Classics line was great (it was), and are looking forward to next year's additions. And complaining about PRIME? One of the best figures in the Classics line-up? My standard advice applies here: if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Yes.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:skywarp-2 is our cynical conspiracy theorist. While most of us are happy with what's good about TF's, he's habitually negative about everything else.

I say ... enjoy your toys. Hasbro will do what they will, so deal with it.

It's nice to see both sides of things, but we can only take so much dude.

That's because in discussions like this, there is no real discussion. The OP is "acknowledging" the fact that other people are bringing up legitimate arguments and points but is in the same breath not actually considering the argument of the other side.

Perfectly legitimate statements are glossed over because they strain the personal credulity of Skywarp-2's argument that we can somehow drastically alter Hasbro's designs.

And directly, Skywarp-2, you are habitually negative. Nothing is ever good enough. When you start arguing that Classics isn't a good enough modernization of G1, well, people are just not going to give credit to your arguments anymore.

Besides, if you start a wide open discussion like this and argue a left field point of view, you're going to have to defend the hell out of it before you get some respect for your position.

fine to my point about the G-1 changes to Voyager Prime.. let me ask you this..

Would this simple change have been so bad??

Counterpunch wrote:And directly, Skywarp-2, you are habitually negative. Nothing is ever good enough. When you start arguing that Classics isn't a good enough modernization of G1, well, people are just not going to give credit to your arguments anymore.

I don't think that is fair, i liked almost everything about the movie line up, the designs are good, the paint applications weren't and that has been established apparently as a legitimate dislike so.. I think that Masterpiece is untouchable, even with the issues it's had.. the Animated are great, but I wish that level of aatnetion was directed at the classics concepts.. i love Beast Wars,a nd Have always stated so, I loved the Energona dn Cybertron series..

I think that Go-Bots should be thrown into the mix somehow, that classics could have been better.. does that really make me a negative person?? Or is this jump on Skywarp-2's ass day?? I think calling me negative is another personal attack on my character which I feel is unwarranted, yes I have off the wall ideas, yes I dislike strongly certain things.. but you of all people, i should and would not have expected to come to my aide in any way, shape, or form.. the mere mention of classics being a dissappointment and Botcons release of the additional seekers that should have been mass reatil and you call to arms.. so iI didn't expect any sympathy from your side..

but I did think you were a good protector of keeping the attacks on a issue level versus personal?? I mean, afterall we are debating toys here, and not calling each other's momma's names..

So what's wrong with Optimus Prime's crouch?

Personally, I don't think faction symbols on his shoulders would have been bad or detracted from the figure in any way. That said, the figure doesn't need them, either, and Classics Optimus doesn't lose points for not having them. A lack of faction symbols doesn't generate an area for improvement, in my book.

Dead Metal wrote:So what's wrong with Optimus Prime's crouch?

if a simple deduction of Paint on it were done it wouldn't look like a Kitty Litter scooper..

Nobody's insulting your overall character SW-2. We are just stating your tendency toward certain things. We all know there is more to you than that, it doesn't define you as a person. The comments at you are fair, you are just taking them too personally ... and getting defensive.

Sure, Sledge was a bit out of line ... but that's the Sledge we know. He gets plenty of guff for it. I can count on him to set me straight if I ever need it.

Your changes would be fine looking, but some wouldn't agree with you ... possibly somebody who is much like yourself.

Hasbro can't please everybody, so I don't gripe much about what I dislike. This is why people kitbash. Go ahead and make the changes. If you don't have the time/patience to learn how to modify things ... then it must not be THAT important to you.

Sure, the spatula crotch is apparent. If I woke up screaming in the middle of the night, because I had a nightmare involving OP's spatula crotch ...

I'd probably have bigger things to worry about. In NO way do these minute details take anything away from the figure.

Hasbro cannot make everybody happy. Your changes would have other people throwing up their arms. Why should you always be the one that is pleased?

Calm down dude. We all still like ya here ... just trying to bring you back to earth a lil bit.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:Nobody's insulting your overall character SW-2. We are just stating your tendency toward certain things. We all know there is more to you than that, it doesn't define you as a person. The comments at you are fair, you are just taking them too personally ... and getting defensive.

Sure, Sledge was a bit out of line ... but that's the Sledge we know. He gets plenty of guff for it. I can count on him to set me straight if I ever need it.

Your changes would be fine looking, but some wouldn't agree with you ... possibly somebody who is much like yourself.

Hasbro can't please everybody, so I don't gripe much about what I dislike. This is why people kitbash. Go ahead and make the changes. If you don't have the time/patience to learn how to modify things ... then it must not be THAT important to you.

Sure, the spatula crotch is apparent. If I woke up screaming in the middle of the night, because I had a nightmare involving OP's spatula crotch ...

I'd probably have bigger things to worry about. In NO way do these minute details take anything away from the figure.

Hasbro cannot make everybody happy. Your changes would have other people throwing up their arms. Why should you always be the one that is pleased?

Calm down dude. We all still like ya here ... just trying to bring you back to earth a lil bit.

Ahh well.. since you put it that way.. my thrusters are in neutral..

Oh and the nightmare thing...that was funny!!! I wonder if someone does have a nightmare after reading this post, and seeing the emphasis taken on prime's crotch..

sorry dude!!

Now you've edited your post, skywarp-2, I have to admit, the yellow arrows on his forearms don't look very good. I think the actual version looks better in that respect. The crotch recolouring works, though.

skywarp-2 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:So what's wrong with Optimus Prime's crouch?

if a simple deduction of Paint on it were done it wouldn't look like a Kitty Litter scooper..

Never noticed, but that doesn't bother me much.

skywarp-2 wrote:but I did think you were a good protector of keeping the attacks on a issue level versus personal?? I mean, afterall we are debating toys here, and not calling each other's momma's names..

I did not call you a name. I didn't say anything derogatory about your character. I didn't say anything particularly mean about you.

I didn't say your arguments were childish. I didn't call you an asshole. I didn't call your point of view stupid.

I did call it unfounded.

I did say you were being overly negative.

That's not a statement of insult.

At times, I'm overly positive about Transformers. When you put yourself out there for debate and discussion, you have to be prepared for critique and commentary on your discussion that you may not like.

Like was said previously, no one is attacking your character. Maybe if you had been around when ole' Alvin Prime was around you'd understand better how overly enthusiastic posts look and why they tend to break down under open debate.

and for the record, I liked Alvin Prime.

Leonardo wrote:Now you've edited your post, skywarp-2, I have to admit, the yellow arrows on his forearms don't look very good. I think the actual version looks better in that respect. The crotch recolouring works, though.

well it's just an idea.. but it could be done differently.. I'm just not fond of the forearms..but the crotch and shoulder I think bring the design closer to home base.. I think Reprolabels would do the trick, but the Blue underneath would look off with that addition..

Like I said just a couple of minor changes would have been cool.. but to each his own.. and as far as Kitbashing it.. It's important to me, and I'd do it.. but my point is why should I have to... if classics prime is perfect for the majority of fans then I'm cool with that.. I just still think it could have been a little better is all..

but your right those changes don't detract from the figure..there is just so much more that could have been.. I hope going forward Hasbro is gonna step up the designs..I am glad that the Botcon this year had Hasbro saying no more repaints of prime into Ultra Magnus.. only a new design.. that's certainly hopeful..



To Counterpunch's statement:
Alvin prime???

Damolisher wrote::-x Did I just read criticism of Classic Jetfire? Classics Jetfire, the best Voyager sized figure of the last 7 years, that Jetfire? f you don't like that Jetfire, there's no pleasin' ya.

Best Voyager of the last 7 years? Where have you been all that time? I could probably name 10 better Voyager figures than Jetfire.

Dr. Z wrote:

Damolisher wrote::-x Did I just read criticism of Classic Jetfire? Classics Jetfire, the best Voyager sized figure of the last 7 years, that Jetfire? f you don't like that Jetfire, there's no pleasin' ya.

Best Voyager of the last 7 years? Where have you been all that time? I could probably name 10 better Voyager figures than Jetfire.

Mudflap!

He ROCKS!

Counterpunch wrote:

Dr. Z wrote:

Damolisher wrote::-x Did I just read criticism of Classic Jetfire? Classics Jetfire, the best Voyager sized figure of the last 7 years, that Jetfire? f you don't like that Jetfire, there's no pleasin' ya.

Best Voyager of the last 7 years? Where have you been all that time? I could probably name 10 better Voyager figures than Jetfire.

Mudflap!

He ROCKS!

yes!! I concur, Mudflap was an extremely cool transformer!! his head sculpt, the body articulation.. he was just too sweet!! What kind of Classics repaint would he make?? Becaue I would totally buy his repaint!!!

skywarp-2 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Dr. Z wrote:

Damolisher wrote::-x Did I just read criticism of Classic Jetfire? Classics Jetfire, the best Voyager sized figure of the last 7 years, that Jetfire? f you don't like that Jetfire, there's no pleasin' ya.

Best Voyager of the last 7 years? Where have you been all that time? I could probably name 10 better Voyager figures than Jetfire.

Mudflap!

He ROCKS!

yes!! I concur, Mudflap was an extremely cool transformer!! his head sculpt, the body articulation.. he was just too sweet!! What kind of Classics repaint would he make?? Becaue I would totally buy his repaint!!!

I'm with ya there...

He'd make a killer Grapple.

Counterpunch wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:
Mudflap!

He ROCKS!

yes!! I concur, Mudflap was an extremely cool transformer!! his head sculpt, the body articulation.. he was just too sweet!! What kind of Classics repaint would he make?? Becaue I would totally buy his repaint!!!

I'm with ya there...

He'd make a killer Grapple.

yeah.. but for some reason in looking at him, i keep picturing a Decepticon from late G-1 or G-2 Era?? Menasor?? I picture him in Black and green.. I don't know why.. let me research the gallery and figure out who I'm thinking of...


Damn,i took a look at Grapple's G-1 Head, and man your right!! his face is almost identical to G-1 Grapple!!!

skywarp-2 wrote:Would this simple change have been so bad??

I do like that change! Admittedly, I'm not all that off on voyagers anyway -- I generally like my action figures to stay in the 4.5"-6" range; it's matter of personal preference obviously not shared by many around these parts -- but the blue shoulders were among the main reason that I didn't buy the voyager Prime. That said, I'm not sure if they have blue in the back, so has anyone tried switching the shoulders? I'm not sure if that would work, but if it did I imagine that the screw holes could be covered with some reprolabels faction symbols.

Anyway, it's not a bad figure (judging from the UM that I have), but I personally prefer the smaller and more poseable (okay, maybe not by much, if at all, but still) deluxe Prime... even though he didn't have faction symbols on his shoulders either.

Wes Crayon wrote:I do like that change! Admittedly, I'm not all that off on voyagers anyway -- I generally like my action figures to stay in the 4.5"-6" range; it's matter of personal preference obviously not shared by many around these parts -- but the blue shoulders were among the main reason that I didn't buy the voyager Prime. That said, I'm not sure if they have blue in the back, so has anyone tried switching the shoulders? I'm not sure if that would work,

It would not work. There are recessed areas on one side of the shoulders, but not the other which are essential to the transformation.

Wes Crayon wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:Would this simple change have been so bad??

I do like that change! Admittedly, I'm not all that off on voyagers anyway -- I generally like my action figures to stay in the 4.5"-6" range; it's matter of personal preference obviously not shared by many around these parts -- but the blue shoulders were among the main reason that I didn't buy the voyager Prime. That said, I'm not sure if they have blue in the back, so has anyone tried switching the shoulders? I'm not sure if that would work, but if it did I imagine that the screw holes could be covered with some reprolabels faction symbols.

Anyway, it's not a bad figure (judging from the UM that I have), but I personally prefer the smaller and more poseable deluxe Prime... even though he didn't have faction symbols on his shoulders either.

dude, deluxe Prime isn't more poseable!
Voyager Prime is one of the most poseble Primes ever, no way deluxe can stand a chance to him, I have both, deluxe version sux babybals wen put up against him!
But it's you personal preference, so I don't want to judge you, but man you can't just go about and say Copter Prime is more poseble.

My personal biggest classics letdown is that my area apparently only received one case of the first wave deluxes, and nothing after that, until the deluxe Prime/Megatron 2-pack

And so I didn't get to buy any classics, because I didn't have money at the time that one single case was on shelves. Pretty big letdown, isn't it?