The Energon Pub

Frostliger wrote:As far as I know surveillance vehicles that look like delivery vans or a telephone company truck are found in movies. Who's to say it won't look like a normal vehicle, and if he's found out why can't he scan a new vehicle mode or if that's too far-fetched be able to change the color of his alt.mode?

Why would he use a vehicle mode to begin with?!! It doesn't make sense for him as a character. He's the guy that hides in the shadows, gathering data and whispering in Megatron's ear. He gets in anywhere, indoors or out, to find out whatever secrets he can, even among his own troops, and at the same time holds strength, rank, and power equal to Starscream,which is something Frenzy didn't have. Frenzy was a lacky, Soundwave holds power and has Megatron's ear.

Here's something you might not have thought about, Tramp....if Soundwave is a 30-50 ft robot/boombox or something similar, how is he going to transport himself when in a situation when he can't transform into his robot mode. I mean, just saying, he's doing a covert job....he'd have to be carried to the spot where the job needs to be done....be left alone to do whatever it is he needs to do, & then carried far enough away from the site that he could transform back into the robot so as to be mobile. Now Frenzy got around this because he was only about human-sized & therfore could sneak around without breaking ceilings & stuff just by transforming, as Soundwave would probably do.

I really believe that getting Soundwave "right" isn't so much as keeping him as the same alt mode as it is keeping the same personality/rank/function. Perhaps he could be this military vehicle, which would fit the info gathering/spy function, but yet be similar to how Bumblebee was in the first movie where he changes form relating to his situation...meaning when among military, be a military vehicle....when among civillians, be some kind of TV studio van or FBI surveilence van or something that civillians wouldn't think much of. I mean, the point of them transforming wasn't so much to keep from drawing attention to them so much as it was to keep from drawing attention to the fact that they are actually alien robots. & other than that, send his minions to do the dirty work. After all, what's the point of having smaller minion robots to help in recon work if you can do everything they can on your own?

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Here's something you might not have thought about, Tramp....if Soundwave is a 30-50 ft robot/boombox or something similar, how is he going to transport himself when in a situation when he can't transform into his robot mode. I mean, just saying, he's doing a covert job....he'd have to be carried to the spot where the job needs to be done....be left alone to do whatever it is he needs to do, & then carried far enough away from the site that he could transform back into the robot so as to be mobile. Now Frenzy got around this because he was only about human-sized & therfore could sneak around without breaking ceilings & stuff just by transforming, as Soundwave would probably do.

I really believe that getting Soundwave "right" isn't so much as keeping him as the same alt mode as it is keeping the same personality/rank/function. Perhaps he could be this military vehicle, which would fit the info gathering/spy function, but yet be similar to how Bumblebee was in the first movie where he changes form relating to his situation...meaning when among military, be a military vehicle....when among civillians, be some kind of TV studio van or FBI surveilence van or something that civillians wouldn't think much of. I mean, the point of them transforming wasn't so much to keep from drawing attention to them so much as it was to keep from drawing attention to the fact that they are actually alien robots. & other than that, send his minions to do the dirty work. After all, what's the point of having smaller minion robots to help in recon work if you can do everything they can on your own?

I have already said why more than once. Go back to G1 for a minute. Remember all the times when Soundwave transformed into tape deck mode without cnhanging size, such as in the movie and when he played back recordings for Megatron? Now, apply that same thing to movie Soundwave when transforming from stereo mode to robot mode when he needs to get into a building. He remains small when he needs to and grows to full size the rest of the time. That is how. Or he uses one of his minions.

Why would he use a vehicle mode to begin with?!! It doesn't make sense for him as a character. He's the guy that hides in the shadows, gathering data and whispering in Megatron's ear. He gets in anywhere, indoors or out, to find out whatever secrets he can, even among his own troops, and at the same time holds strength, rank, and power equal to Starscream,which is something Frenzy didn't have. Frenzy was a lacky, Soundwave holds power and has Megatron's ear.

If he does hold so much power why should he do the grunt work of infiltrating a base or where ever and do the spying? That's what his minions are for. If I remember correctly in the first episode of the G1 series he disguised himself as a street light and had laserbeak do the spying, so why can't he do the same in the sequel? Heck I just thought of a disguise that isn't a vehicle but would be less noticable then a sound system, make him one of those big AC units that sit on the roofs of office buildings.
If you think about it this may work well as no one goes up there except maintenance and his minions would have easy access to the building via the air ducts, and when its time to return to base he waits till night to make his escape.

Tramp wrote: Or he uses one of his minions.

This was what I was thinking about. Use his minions similar to the partnership Frenzy & Barricade had where Frenzy sneaks in, does the detail work, & then sneaks back out to the larger mobile bot to report to whoever's in charge. That also would give the minions a more obvious purpose, as well as reconfirming that one of Soundwave's functions is to be his minions' carrier.

Frostliger wrote:

Why would he use a vehicle mode to begin with?!! It doesn't make sense for him as a character. He's the guy that hides in the shadows, gathering data and whispering in Megatron's ear. He gets in anywhere, indoors or out, to find out whatever secrets he can, even among his own troops, and at the same time holds strength, rank, and power equal to Starscream,which is something Frenzy didn't have. Frenzy was a lacky, Soundwave holds power and has Megatron's ear.

If he does hold so much power why should he do the grunt work of infiltrating a base or where ever and do the spying? That's what his minions are for. If I remember correctly in the first episode of the G1 series he disguised himself as a street light and had laserbeak do the spying, so why can't he do the same in the sequel? Heck I just thought of a disguise that isn't a vehicle but would be less noticable then a sound system, make him one of those big AC units that sit on the roofs of office buildings.
If you think about it this may work well as no one goes up there except maintenance and his minions would have easy access to the building via the air ducts, and when its time to return to base he waits till night to make his escape.

Infiltration and espionage isn't "grunt work". It is one of the toughest, most skilled jobs in any military or government requiring extremely skilled special operatives, not grunts. Soundwave is Special Ops speializing in inteligence and communications. He works with his minions, he doesn't just send them out to do everything for him.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote: Or he uses one of his minions.

This was what I was thinking about. Use his minions similar to the partnership Frenzy & Barricade had where Frenzy sneaks in, does the detail work, & then sneaks back out to the larger mobile bot to report to whoever's in charge. That also would give the minions a more obvious purpose, as well as reconfirming that one of Soundwave's functions is to be his minions' carrier.

Frenzy wasn't a minion. He was small, but he wasn't Barricade's minion. If I were to hazard a guess, he actually outranked Barricade. Fenzy was an operative specializing in espionage. It was Frenzy who managed to gain the information about Sam. It was also Frenzy who thawed Megatron and pretty much ordered the other Decepticons to rendezvous for the final battle. The only thing he lacked was size and physical power.

I don't understand how a characters alt mode in the movie universe defines who they are. Look at Ironhide...he was a bigass black truck, not a red van, yet he gave me a total Ironhide vibe the whole time he was onscreen. Soundwave should be a vehicle, and his minions, like Frenzy, whether you consider him a minion or not, should do the actual espionage. I recall many a G1 episode where Laserbeak was sent into Autobot headquarters while Soundwave stayed nearby. Why wouldn't it be keeping with G1 to do the same in the movie?

Sentinel Pax wrote:I don't understand how a characters alt mode in the movie universe defines who they are. Look at Ironhide...he was a bigass black truck, not a red van, yet he gave me a total Ironhide vibe the whole time he was onscreen. Soundwave should be a vehicle, and his minions, like Frenzy, whether you consider him a minion or not, should do the actual espionage. I recall many a G1 episode where Laserbeak was sent into Autobot headquarters while Soundwave stayed nearby. Why wouldn't it be keeping with G1 to do the same in the movie?

Ironhide was never defined by his alternate mode. His name came from his toughness. Soundwave was defined by his alternate mode, just like Blaster or Perceptor. It was an intergral part of who he was as a character and was the very source of his name.

Tramp wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:I don't understand how a characters alt mode in the movie universe defines who they are. Look at Ironhide...he was a bigass black truck, not a red van, yet he gave me a total Ironhide vibe the whole time he was onscreen. Soundwave should be a vehicle, and his minions, like Frenzy, whether you consider him a minion or not, should do the actual espionage. I recall many a G1 episode where Laserbeak was sent into Autobot headquarters while Soundwave stayed nearby. Why wouldn't it be keeping with G1 to do the same in the movie?

Ironhide was never defined by his alternate mode. His name came from his toughness. Soundwave was defined by his alternate mode, just like Blaster or Perceptor. It was an intergral part of who he was as a character and was the very source of his name.

Hate to break it to you, but sound & music are two different things. Sound is simply vibrations that compress air, similar to how ripples are sent through water. A soundwave is simply one of those ripples. That could apply to anything audible, & therefore does not necessarily refer to music. Nowadays there are thousands of devices that are meant to interpret or record sound. & with the internet, having to go on-site to gather info really wouldn't be necessary given that it could be accessed from anywhere in the world (I would assume Frenzy accessing the net from AF1 was because he was already there anyway or just to show the humans how inferior they really were). So in other words, an on-site musical device Soundwave does not make. He is first & foremost the Decepticon information trafficer.

& BTW, who said his minions weren't skilled at espionage, possibly even moreso than Soundwave himself?

Tramp wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:I don't understand how a characters alt mode in the movie universe defines who they are. Look at Ironhide...he was a bigass black truck, not a red van, yet he gave me a total Ironhide vibe the whole time he was onscreen. Soundwave should be a vehicle, and his minions, like Frenzy, whether you consider him a minion or not, should do the actual espionage. I recall many a G1 episode where Laserbeak was sent into Autobot headquarters while Soundwave stayed nearby. Why wouldn't it be keeping with G1 to do the same in the movie?

Ironhide was never defined by his alternate mode. His name came from his toughness. Soundwave was defined by his alternate mode, just like Blaster or Perceptor. It was an intergral part of who he was as a character and was the very source of his name.

Well, by that logic, Blaster should have been a blaster used by another Transformer, because the word "blaster" doesn't make me think of a radio at all. I'm with Nemesis Cyberplex on this one.

Soundwave can be those news-crew type van.

Auto Bot wrote:Soundwave can be those news-crew type van.

Dude! Paparazzi Soundwave! They can chase British royalty to get pictures and run them off the road and one of them can die. Just like real life.

Auto Bot wrote:Soundwave can be those news-crew type van.

A news van is sure to draw attention. When a News van shows up, that means there is something important happening, and that is sure to draw a crowd.

Sentinel Pax wrote:Tramp wrote:
Sentinel Pax wrote:
I don't understand how a characters alt mode in the movie universe defines who they are. Look at Ironhide...he was a bigass black truck, not a red van, yet he gave me a total Ironhide vibe the whole time he was onscreen. Soundwave should be a vehicle, and his minions, like Frenzy, whether you consider him a minion or not, should do the actual espionage. I recall many a G1 episode where Laserbeak was sent into Autobot headquarters while Soundwave stayed nearby. Why wouldn't it be keeping with G1 to do the same in the movie?

Ironhide was never defined by his alternate mode. His name came from his toughness. Soundwave was defined by his alternate mode, just like Blaster or Perceptor. It was an intergral part of who he was as a character and was the very source of his name.
Well, by that logic, Blaster should have been a blaster used by another Transformer, because the word "blaster" doesn't make me think of a radio at all. I'm with Nemesis Cyberplex on this one.

Boomboxes were also known as "music blasters" back in the day. Hence the name "Blaster. He liked to "blast" rock and roll; the louder, the better.

Now don't get me wrong, I know who Blaster is, and who his character was, I'm just saying that alt modes shouldn't dictate the character. Look at all of Megatron's various alt modes over time. The fact that his name is Soundwave shouldn't limit him to one type of alt mode, but it should still limit his function in a way. Soundwave doesn't have to be a stereo in order to spy, he can be some kind of vehicle with surveillance technology, not necessarily a news van, and his minions can do the jobs requiring stealth and smallness. Otherwise, why should he even have minions? Again, G1 Soundwave used his minions for that kind of thing more than he himself spied on the Autobots.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Soundwave can be those news-crew type van.

A news van is sure to draw attention. When a News van shows up, that means there is something important happening, and that is sure to draw a crowd.

Even still, there are different ways of drawing a crowd here. He's not particularly worrying about people seeing the van & going "hey, what's a surveilence van doing here?" He'd be more worried about people seeing him & saying, "Holy sh*t, It's a giant f*cking alien robot!! Run for your lives!!!" Having a surveilence van sitting out in broad daylight isn't going to be drawing the second kind of attention....untill he transforms. If he dosen't, no worries. people might be wondering who the people inside are monitoring. If they do peek inside & not see anybody, they might wonder about how it's being remote-controlled, but it would be very doubtful if anybody would even think of him being an alien robot, & even then so long as Soundwave didn't do anything, it'd be even harder to get anybody to believe that person. They'd probably tell him to lay off the anime & that the CIA wasn't using mind-probes on him, so he needed to take off the armadillo-shell helmet(Dukes of Hazzard reference).

Sentinel Pax wrote:Now don't get me wrong, I know who Blaster is, and who his character was, I'm just saying that alt modes shouldn't dictate the character. Look at all of Megatron's various alt modes over time. The fact that his name is Soundwave shouldn't limit him to one type of alt mode, but it should still limit his function in a way. Soundwave doesn't have to be a stereo in order to spy, he can be some kind of vehicle with surveillance technology, not necessarily a news van, and his minions can do the jobs requiring stealth and smallness. Otherwise, why should he even have minions? Again, G1 Soundwave used his minions for that kind of thing more than he himself spied on the Autobots.

That depends upon the character. In multiple cases, it was that alternate mode which determined the character and his name. Soundwave, Blaster, and Perceptor were just three examples of this. Warpath was another, as were Powerglide, Cosmos, and Seaspray. They all got their names and functions because of their alternate modes. Would Powerglide have been called Powerglide if he hadn't been a plane?. Would Seaspray have been Seaspray if he weren't some kind of boat? Would Warpath have been named Warpath if he weren't a tank? Would Cosmos be called Cosmos if he weren't a flying saucer? No on all of them. Their names were all derived from their alternate modes. Soundwave would not have been Soundwave if there hadn't been a tape deck robot. Blaster wouldn't have existed if they didn't have that boombox robot. The same with Perceptor and the others I mentioned. Each got their names from their respective alternate modes. While this isn't true of all Transformers, it is true of these and several others.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Soundwave can be those news-crew type van.

A news van is sure to draw attention. When a News van shows up, that means there is something important happening, and that is sure to draw a crowd.

Even still, there are different ways of drawing a crowd here. He's not particularly worrying about people seeing the van & going "hey, what's a surveilence van doing here?" He'd be more worried about people seeing him & saying, "Holy sh*t, It's a giant f*cking alien robot!! Run for your lives!!!" Having a surveilence van sitting out in broad daylight isn't going to be drawing the second kind of attention....untill he transforms. If he dosen't, no worries. people might be wondering who the people inside are monitoring. If they do peek inside & not see anybody, they might wonder about how it's being remote-controlled, but it would be very doubtful if anybody would even think of him being an alien robot, & even then so long as Soundwave didn't do anything, it'd be even harder to get anybody to believe that person. They'd probably tell him to lay off the anime & that the CIA wasn't using mind-probes on him, so he needed to take off the armadillo-shell helmet(Dukes of Hazzard reference).

No, he's worried about drawing any unwanted attention. Crowds make a spy's job impossible without being caught. The more people the greater chance of being found out. stealth requires secrecy and anonymity. It requires the ability to blend in and not draw any attention. That means he need to blend into any surrounding without drawing any undue notice. A news van is sure to draw attention.

Tramp wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:Well, I would still think someone would notice something like that if they were in an important secure place. I mean, to me, the fact that nobody found Frenzy's alt mode out of place was one of the biggest snags of the new movie. I'm a fan of Soundwave's alt mode for all things G1, but for the movie, I'll have to support something along TimShinn's design. But who says we can't agree to disagree, right?

That's just it, it wouldn't be out of place. Secure facility or not, people like music and often bring stereos to work or have a company one there. Most people woud assume it belongs there even if they themselves didn't bring it. They would figure that someone else brought it or the boss did. It is highly unlikely someone would question it. Thwe reason why Frnzy worked so well in that scene is because a stereo is so ubiquitous. They're found literally everywhere.

We've benn down the road with this one before, this is the reason the name frenzy was used instead of soundwave in the movie. I'm a g1ner all the way but I just dont see soundwave becoming a boombox anymore plus mass shifting was one thing the movie was trying to stray away from. I love your enthusiasm and defense for soundawave to be a radio again but the fact that the movie already had frenzy (originally named soundwave prior to the movie release) is going to keep that from happening.

keeknuts wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:Well, I would still think someone would notice something like that if they were in an important secure place. I mean, to me, the fact that nobody found Frenzy's alt mode out of place was one of the biggest snags of the new movie. I'm a fan of Soundwave's alt mode for all things G1, but for the movie, I'll have to support something along TimShinn's design. But who says we can't agree to disagree, right?

That's just it, it wouldn't be out of place. Secure facility or not, people like music and often bring stereos to work or have a company one there. Most people woud assume it belongs there even if they themselves didn't bring it. They would figure that someone else brought it or the boss did. It is highly unlikely someone would question it. Thwe reason why Frnzy worked so well in that scene is because a stereo is so ubiquitous. They're found literally everywhere.

We've benn down the road with this one before, this is the reason the name frenzy was used instead of soundwave in the movie. I'm a g1ner all the way but I just dont see soundwave becoming a boombox anymore plus mass shifting was one thing the movie was trying to stray away from. I love your enthusiasm and defense for soundawave to be a radio again but the fact that the movie already had frenzy (originally named soundwave prior to the movie release) is going to keep that from happening.

The movie stayed away from Mass conversion only because they had so much else to deal with. Tyey felt that they couldn't devote the time to deal with it as a plot device, which it would need to be, and make it make sense. In a sequel they can do that. They can devote the time it requires to properly cover the issue as part of the plot.

Tramp wrote:

keeknuts wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:Well, I would still think someone would notice something like that if they were in an important secure place. I mean, to me, the fact that nobody found Frenzy's alt mode out of place was one of the biggest snags of the new movie. I'm a fan of Soundwave's alt mode for all things G1, but for the movie, I'll have to support something along TimShinn's design. But who says we can't agree to disagree, right?

That's just it, it wouldn't be out of place. Secure facility or not, people like music and often bring stereos to work or have a company one there. Most people woud assume it belongs there even if they themselves didn't bring it. They would figure that someone else brought it or the boss did. It is highly unlikely someone would question it. Thwe reason why Frnzy worked so well in that scene is because a stereo is so ubiquitous. They're found literally everywhere.

We've benn down the road with this one before, this is the reason the name frenzy was used instead of soundwave in the movie. I'm a g1ner all the way but I just dont see soundwave becoming a boombox anymore plus mass shifting was one thing the movie was trying to stray away from. I love your enthusiasm and defense for soundawave to be a radio again but the fact that the movie already had frenzy (originally named soundwave prior to the movie release) is going to keep that from happening.

The movie stayed away from Mass conversion only because they had so much else to deal with. Tyey felt that they couldn't devote the time to deal with it as a plot device, which it would need to be, and make it make sense. In a sequel they can do that. They can devote the time it requires to properly cover the issue as part of the plot.

You do love mass shifting, don't you?

It isn't a matter of liking or disliking. It is an inherent part of his character.

Tramp wrote:

Hellbender wrote:Ok, to settle this. Years back, a local radio station used to haul this giant 15'x20' working boombox around on a trailer. They would take it to the beaches, around town to special events, and to promotional events like store openings, and have parties and dance around it. It was loud, had the stations logo on it, and it was big. I'm talking Transformer big. And several other stations in other cities had their own as well. So... why couldn't Soundwave be one of those? He would never have to "impossible shrink" again!

Yeah, and it would stick out like a sore thumb. Things like the "giant boombox" that radio station had is designed and built for one purpose to draw in crowds of onlookers. It is deigned to atract attention. For someone like Soundwave, that would be a disaster. the last thing he would want is to attract attention to himself.

You are starting to demand this instead of suggest this, you keep on throwing down everyones opinions and thoughts on soundwave, were not in a court of law here, you dont need to defend your case. "You state your bussiness" and be content with that, everyone here is just suggesting not implementing. One thing I would like to say is that soundwave was, I beleive in the war within comics a vehicle, so to say that the boombox is the only way to go is not true it's just one of the many ways that this charcater can be protrayed. I still dont think mass shifting should be done in these movies and please no more products (only if they use them as soundwave's minions) only vehicles.

[
You are starting to demand this instead of suggest this, you keep on throwing down everyones opinions and thoughts on soundwave, were not in a court of law here, you dont need to defend your case. "You state your bussiness" and be content with that, everyone here is just suggesting not implementing. One thing I would like to say is that soundwave was, I beleive in the war within comics a vehicle, so to say that the boombox is the only way to go is not true it's just one of the many ways that this charcater can be protrayed. I still dont think mass shifting should be done in these movies and please no more products (only if they use them as soundwave's minions) only vehicles.[/quote]
I agree. Everyone's comments here are valuable, but I guess in the end we will have to wait for the next movie and see what they'll do with Soundwave then give our educated opinion. Here's to hoping they don't screw him up.

Tramp wrote:Those are Alternators.

Duh!!!! He was just suggesting that those could be possible forms for soundwave. Here you go again me, me, me!!! The world does not revolve around your comments. The majority of the people on this forum (from reading comments) seem agree that soundwave should not be a boombox.