The Energon Pub

Tramp wrote:No! I am not going to "give it up". I don't care if you have some unreasonable hatred of mas conversion, but it is an integral part of Soundwave's character, just as a variation on his iconic alternate mode is. He is not Soundwave without them.

Which Soundwave? Cybertron? Beast Wars?

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:No! I am not going to "give it up". I don't care if you have some unreasonable hatred of mas conversion, but it is an integral part of Soundwave's character, just as a variation on his iconic alternate mode is. He is not Soundwave without them.

Which Soundwave? Cybertron? Beast Wars?

Neither Cybertron nor Beast Wars Soundwave is iconic. I've never even seen['/b] this [bn]Beast Wars[/i] Soundwave, and he is ceetainly not the same character. Cybertron "soundwave" is Soundwave in name only. He is [b]nothing like the original in either function, nor character. All he has is the name. When most people think of Soundwave, they think G1 Soundwave. That is his iconic form. That is the form they have to use, just updated and made more realistic in appearance to fit in with the other movie designs. They do not need to totally change him into a completely different character. That is why Blackout became Blackout and not Soundwave, and why Frenzy became Frenzy, not Soundwave. You can't have Soundwave without him being a stereo, and you can't have him without him having Mass conversion. That is why they held him off for a sequel so they could do him right. And that means stereo with mass conversion.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:No! I am not going to "give it up". I don't care if you have some unreasonable hatred of mas conversion, but it is an integral part of Soundwave's character, just as a variation on his iconic alternate mode is. He is not Soundwave without them.

Which Soundwave? Cybertron? Beast Wars?

Neither Cybertron nor Beast Wars Soundwave is iconic. I've never even seen['/b] this [bn]Beast Wars[/i] Soundwave, and he is ceetainly not the same character. Cybertron "soundwave" is Soundwave in name only. He is [b]nothing like the original in either function, nor character. All he has is the name. When most people think of Soundwave, they think G1 Soundwave. That is his iconic form. That is the form they have to use, just updated and made more realistic in appearance to fit in with the other movie designs. They do not need to totally change him into a completely different character. That is why Blackout became Blackout and not Soundwave, and why Frenzy became Frenzy, not Soundwave. You can't have Soundwave without him being a stereo, and you can't have him without him having Mass conversion. That is why they held him off for a sequel so they could do him right. And that means stereo with mass conversion.

Actually, IIRC, the only reason why they held him off was because every time fans heard he was going to be anything other than his "iconic" self (read:mass-shifting cassette player), they pissed & moaned about how he just HAD to be just like he was in G1 untill they gave up & tried something else that they pissed & moaned about. It wasn't so much about doing him right as it was avoiding fans stirring up sh*t that gave the movie a bad taste in everybody's mouth before it even got filmed. That's why the worked the story around so that Megs never adopted an Earth form, & why Soundwave wasn't in the movie despite having 2 characters designed to be him, & why the Energon Cube was renamed the Allspark....so they could make the damn movie, prove that the changes (some of which I still don't like) would work & the movie would be a spectacular hit without some of G1's "iconic" quirkiness.

No. Don Murphy himself said in the Q&A panel last August—I believe it was at the Toronot Transformerscon—that the reason why was so they could do him right. Hasbro also insisted that he have mass conversion and be a CD player. They all but demanded it. This is stated in an article right here on this site as well. Go through the news archives if you don't believe me.

Megatron did not need to have mass conversion. He did not need to be a gun, and no one agrued that he did. Most versions of Megatron had him as either a tank or a jet. He had noi iconic form and a gun mode doesn't really suit him anyway because he is the leader of the Decepticons and by his very nature would not want to be at anyone elses mercy. Having a pistol mode would place him in need in order to operate. That just does not suit him. Soundwave is not like that.

They couldn't use mass conversion in the first movie because they had too much else to deal with. You can pny expect an audience to accept so much at one time. You have to ration it a little at a time. Too many fantastic elements at one time can destroy suspension of disbelief. That same number of elements spread out over multiple movies is much easier for people to accept.

Sentinel Pax wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:& between all the radar & sonar equippment & a robot mode that could possibly use sound-based attacks....it'd fit the "sound" part of the name as well.

Oh, & even better!! He could shrink down to the size of one of those Hot Wheels-sized RC vehicles so that way he could be inconspicuous when inside buildings doing recon work. Cause you know, he'd have to be the one going inside doing the dirty work.

Don't be ridiculous...Soundwave can't have wheels! He must be a Matchbox brand, because they don't have "wheels" in the title! Or better yet...an elevator, so he can annoy people with annoying elevator music, and nobody will ever mistake him for a robot. EVER!

Sentinal that was really clever i actualy laughed a good laugh on that one. But seriously if Michael Bay is back for the sequal, more sneaking around isn't going to happen it would just be another version of what happened in the first movie, also now that i think about it how much information are the decepticons going to obtain from the humans they only needed them to find Megatron and with sector 7 disbanded sneaking more information will be gathered from the autobots and since they dont exactly have a base or anything it would be rather difficult for soundwave to follow and spy on the autobots as a boombox. That would be some great car chase i can see it now that boombox is gaining on us i wonder if its a decepticon. But like these 22 pages were going in circles cause apparently the idea of soundwave being a vehicle will end the world or something, i think we all get it you want soundwave to stick to what he was in G1 but as long as he looks and acts like soundwave not being a boombox isnt a big deal. Also to people who arent transformer fans which is part of the audience of the movie arent going to want the same things to happen twice, another boombox sneaking around.

glitched9700 wrote:
Sentinal that was really clever i actualy laughed a good laugh on that one. But seriously if Michael Bay is back for the sequal, more sneaking around isn't going to happen it would just be another version of what happened in the first movie, also now that i think about it how much information are the decepticons going to obtain from the humans they only needed them to find Megatron and with sector 7 disbanded sneaking more information will be gathered from the autobots and since they dont exactly have a base or anything it would be rather difficult for soundwave to follow and spy on the autobots as a boombox. That would be some great car chase i can see it now that boombox is gaining on us i wonder if its a decepticon. But like these 22 pages were going in circles cause apparently the idea of soundwave being a vehicle will end the world or something, i think we all get it you want soundwave to stick to what he was in G1 but as long as he looks and acts like soundwave not being a boombox isnt a big deal. Also to people who arent transformer fans which is part of the audience of the movie arent going to want the same things to happen twice, another boombox sneaking around.

Glitch, most of the people I taked to at my church's Summerfest last weekend were not die-hard fans, yet they all rememberd G1 Soundwave and they all agreed that if they used him in the new movie, that he had to be a stereo. There was no other option in their eyes. These are not die-hards I'm talking about, just people with a casual knowledge of the characters. Not one person thought he should be a vehicle. Secondly, steath is always needed for missions, even if the Decepticons are not seeking the Allspark anymore. There will always be something else they seek and they will always need infiltrators. There aren't enough of them to launch an all-out attack on us. They would need data, supplies, materials. technology. These are things that infiltrators and intelligence officers can locate, investigate, and in many cases, retrieve.

Tramp, I told you so, you tend to come off to forced, chill out a litle, no one is wrong, no one is right, these are just ideas beening thrown around, people are starting to become annoyed with you, do you actually want people to dislike you and thus your comments. You don't have to force them upon us just state you bussiness and that's it. I've read almots all your comments and they are all the same. You've made your point now move on. I've actaully read other threads where people are talking about your repeated comments on why soundwave should be a boombox and they didnt seem to come off positive.

Um, I hate to do this, but.....


...Yellow Spandex anybody?


......yeah, I went there.....

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Um, I hate to do this, but.....


...Yellow Spandex anybody?


......yeah, I went there.....

best argument yet

I always kinda figured he'd get some super-cool piece of military communications-hardware truck, or even his Universe-tank form, which was pretty sweet. *shrugs*

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Nick\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\soundwave%20machine%20wars.jpg[/img]

Tramp wrote:No. Don Murphy himself said in the Q&A panel last August—I believe it was at the Toronot Transformerscon—that the reason why was so they could do him right. Hasbro also insisted that he have mass conversion and be a CD player. They all but demanded it. This is stated in an article right here on this site as well. Go through the news archives if you don't believe me.

Yeah & they also said Prime & Megs weren't going to be called brothers in the movie, yet it happened anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Murphy's comment was nothing more than fan appeasal, & what he has told the fans on several occasions has turned up to be nothing more than Hollywood ego bullsh*t.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:No. Don Murphy himself said in the Q&A panel last August—I believe it was at the Toronot Transformerscon—that the reason why was so they could do him right. Hasbro also insisted that he have mass conversion and be a CD player. They all but demanded it. This is stated in an article right here on this site as well. Go through the news archives if you don't believe me.

Yeah & they also said Prime & Megs weren't going to be called brothers in the movie, yet it happened anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Murphy's comment was nothing more than fan appeasal, & what he has told the fans on several occasions has turned up to be nothing more than Hollywood ego bullsh*t.

Don Murphy said a lot of things that never happened.

Hey people, something I just noticed. We have been sitting here debating with this guy mostly civilly for what? 22 pages now? & not once was he labeled a Geewunner & his opinions rejected simply due to him wanting Soundwave to be pretty much G1 Soundwave(music player/boombox).

LISTEN UP SEIBERTRON!!! IT'S POSSIBLE TO DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE WITHOUT CALLING THEM A GEEWUNNER!!!!!

This message brought to you by Seibertron brand nuts. Remember, Seibertron contains nuts.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:No. Don Murphy himself said in the Q&A panel last August—I believe it was at the Toronot Transformerscon—that the reason why was so they could do him right. Hasbro also insisted that he have mass conversion and be a CD player. They all but demanded it. This is stated in an article right here on this site as well. Go through the news archives if you don't believe me.

Yeah & they also said Prime & Megs weren't going to be called brothers in the movie, yet it happened anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Murphy's comment was nothing more than fan appeasal, & what he has told the fans on several occasions has turned up to be nothing more than Hollywood ego bullsh*t.

Actually, I have never read anything that suggests anyone ever said that Prime and Megatron were not going to be called "brothers", and I have read just about every news article and interview on the movie. So, until you can show otherwise, I'll take that with a grain of salt. The statements I have mentioned can be found here on this very site.

And, Atlas, that design is the Machine Wars Soundwave. Perhaps the most forgettable design ever produced. It never worked for Soundwave., and a military vehicle especially wouldn't work for covert work, particularly in a civilian setting. I have said this way too many times. IT woudl draw attention and is limited in function to outdoors. It just doesn't fit him as a character.

And, Shadowman, most of what Don said did indeed come to pass. he has done a very good job of keeping fans up to date as well as making sure our concerns were dealt with to most of our satisfaction. He did his job and then some.

Great Atlas wrote:[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Nick\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\soundwave%20machine%20wars.jpg[/img]

Yea, that one. That one's pretty sweet. I have the version called Stalker that was released here in Canada along with Rotorstorm. It's one badass toy.

Tramp wrote:
And, Atlas, that design is the Machine Wars Soundwave. Perhaps the most forgettable design ever produced in my opinion. It never worked for my ideal of what Soundwave should be, and a military vehicle especially wouldn't work for covert work in the way I think he should work, particularly in a civilian setting. I have said this way too many times. IT woudl draw attention in the scenarios I would create where only a mass-shifting boombox TF would work and is limited in function to outdoors where a mass-shifting boombox couldn't do its own work. It just doesn't fit him as my ideal of what his character should be.

fixxed

Tramp, what u said about military vehicles being out of place, i live between NORAD, Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, and the Air Force Academy and i see military vehicles all the time, so it wouldn't be really out of place

Great Atlas wrote:Tramp, what u said about military vehicles being out of place, i live between NORAD, Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, and the Air Force Academy and i see military vehicles all the time, so it wouldn't be really out of place

That's because you live near military outposts. That is a far cry form a normal city far from military bases. Secondly, those vehicles might drive through the city, but would not park down town by an office building for hours on end. Peopple would get suspicious as to what was going on. A military vehicle is fine on a military base or in a combat zone, not down-town LA or some other major city. I was in the Army too. Fort Bragg no less. We never drove into Fayetteville and stayed there any length of time in our military vehicles. We might have passed through on our way to a deployment, or on maneauvers in the bush, but we never went there in th city for any length of time. If we wanted to go to town, we went off duty in our own cars.

Great Atlas wrote:Tramp, what u said about military vehicles being out of place, i live between NORAD, Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, and the Air Force Academy and i see military vehicles all the time, so it wouldn't be really out of place

Military vehicles wouldn't really be out of place anywhere...depending on what kind of vehicle it is. An armored surveilence/ comm truck....honestly probably wouldn't get much more than a few, 'hey, that's cool" looks. However, if you drove down the street with a tank or a missle launcher....yeah, that'd probably blow cover pretty damn fast. But even still, people wouldn't be gawking at it saying, "Holy sh*t, it's a giant alien robot!!!"

edit: Also, who's to say that a military truck would stay put.....go in, make a drop-off of a couple of minions.....be back to pick them up when the deal's done.

Also, who's to say they would be doing said espionage outside of a military town?

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Great Atlas wrote:Tramp, what u said about military vehicles being out of place, i live between NORAD, Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, and the Air Force Academy and i see military vehicles all the time, so it wouldn't be really out of place

Military vehicles wouldn't really be out of place anywhere...depending on what kind of vehicle it is. An armored surveilence/ comm truck....honestly probably wouldn't get much more than a few, 'hey, that's cool" looks. However, if you drove down the street with a tank or a missle launcher....yeah, that'd probably blow cover pretty damn fast. But even still, people wouldn't be gawking at it saying, "Holy sh*t, it's a giant alien robot!!!"

No, any military vehicle that hung around in a civilian area for any significant length of time would b out of place. Especially if there was no military base even remotely near by. A surveylance vehicle would be even more suspicious.

whos said it had to be in a civilian area ss and bonecrusher hung out on military bases for who knows how long

Soundwave could possibly have a mission on a military base

Great Atlas wrote:whos said it had to be in a civilian area ss and bonecrusher hung out on military bases for who knows how long

Niether Starscram nor Bonecrusher are infiltrators. Soundwave is. Starscream is a warrior, and Air Commander. Bonecrusher too is just a grunt; a solider, not a spy, not an infiltrator. Soundwave is an intelligenc eofficer, and infiltrator and communications officer. He needs to fit in anywhere, That means civilion areas, military bases, inside office buildings, or factories, wherever he needs to go to do his job. He cannot be limited to any one type of location. That is why a military vehicle is not an option. That is why no vehicle is an option.

I have no idea why you are so against him having mass conversion. It can be done and done where it will look cool. Especially with the intricacy of the movie designs. They pulled it off beautifully with the Allspark. I have given you logica;l and practical reasons for him using an updated version of a stereo form with mass conversion. I have given you practical reasons why vehicle modes will not work. The only reason why you guys don';t seem to want him a stereo is either because Frenzy was one—which doesn't matter since Frenzy is dead with a destroyed head—or because you think Mass conversion is "stupid" and would look silly in live action, when it can and has been done in such a way where it won't look silly, and will in fact look incrediblely cool where people will go "Holy S...! How'd he do that!!!" That is the type of reaction mass conversion can give when done right. A stereo suddenly transforming into a giant robot is more likely to create an "oh, S...!' moment than destroy suspension of disbelief.

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Great Atlas wrote:Tramp, what u said about military vehicles being out of place, i live between NORAD, Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, and the Air Force Academy and i see military vehicles all the time, so it wouldn't be really out of place

Military vehicles wouldn't really be out of place anywhere...depending on what kind of vehicle it is. An armored surveilence/ comm truck....honestly probably wouldn't get much more than a few, 'hey, that's cool" looks. However, if you drove down the street with a tank or a missle launcher....yeah, that'd probably blow cover pretty damn fast. But even still, people wouldn't be gawking at it saying, "Holy sh*t, it's a giant alien robot!!!"

No, any military vehicle that hung around in a civilian area for any significant length of time would b out of place. Especially if there was no military base even remotely near by. A surveylance vehicle would be even more suspicious.

See, this is the problem right here. You're creating a scenario where there has to be an hours-long stakeout for the infiltration to take place in. That doesn not necessarily have to be the case. Even then, he could simply drop a minion off,not do the infiltration himself, drive off to where he wouldn't be in a conspicuous place, & then return at a pre-designated time for the pickup.

However, I've also noticed that amongst these alleged scenarios, you have set in your head the ideal scenario for a mass-shifting boombox transformer, & because of that, no other alt mode could possibly accomplish the same goal because it is set up specifically for a mass-shifting boombox to perform. So of course no other type of TF could serve that function as well as a mass-shifting TF boombox, because you've figured it out how it can be nothing else.

But this is Michael Bay's baby now, & it is pretty well known that A: he'd rather blow sh*t up than sneak around. & B: there is not going to be a "perfect scenario" because he does not think too terribly deeply on how it'd work. he'd go for what idea would sound cooler, creating logistic holes such as all of earth's tech being backwards-engineered from Megs.

So let's see: long, drawn-out stakeout, watching download screens, grass growing in the background, maybe a single person getting kidnapped without alerting anybody, quirky mass-shifting boombox TF.....or powerful-looking military vehicle drives up....does a quick surveilence sweep before smashing its way into said building, taking what it wants, ejecting minions for further chaos, possibly to keep people from alerting others, & then transforms back & somehow, unknownst to the audience, quietly disappears.

Personally between watching Tom Cruise worried about sweat dropping & alerting authorities & giant robot smash & grab, I'd rather watch giant robot smash & grab. Infiltration be damned. Give me giant f*cking robots blowing sh*t up.

Nemesis Cyberplex, you really think he'll listen to that?

It's reason, he can't understand it.