The Energon Pub

Did you even read my whole post? I said once the transmitter is in place he could easily monitor the building from the Decepticon base, he'd only be in the parking lot long enough to drop off and pickup his minions. So just out of mild curiosity just WHAT would you if they make him a vehicle cause it sounds like it would be the end of the world for you if he is not a stereo. I'll have you know when the first images of the designs came out I wasn't happy I thought they had screwed them up and the francise was in danger of failing but I've grown to like them and with the movie out now think they pulled it of wonderfully. So this whole MUST be a stereo is getting old and I'm sick of arguing with a wall, so I'll just say congrats on winning this small victory but know this if they make him a vehicle I'll be laughing cause I know it'll piss you off.

Frostliger wrote:Did you even read my whole post? I said once the transmitter is in place he could easily monitor the building from the Decepticon base, he'd only be in the parking lot long enough to drop off and pickup his minions. So just out of mild curiosity just WHAT would you if they make him a vehicle cause it sounds like it would be the end of the world for you if he is not a stereo. I'll have you know when the first images of the designs came out I wasn't happy I thought they had screwed them up and the francise was in danger of failing but I've grown to like them and with the movie out now think they pulled it of wonderfully. So this whole MUST be a stereo is getting old and I'm sick of arguing with a wall, so I'll just say congrats on winning this small victory but know this if they make him a vehicle I'll be laughing cause I know it'll piss you off.

You still don't get it. Everything you want Soundwave to do can be better accomplished by Barricade all without drawing undue attention. Soundwave is better served inside disguised as a stereo or other electronic device. Everything I have said Soundwave shold do can only be done by Soundwave. His minions can only do so much. He is capable of doing most of what they do as well as take on full sized Autobots, and demand respect from other Decepticons. You are limiting him to outdoors doing jobs other Decepticons are better suited to. I am giving him the role he was created to do, and has always done. That is keeping him in character and doing him right.

Vehicles can't get into buildings.

But something popping out of the vehicle can. Just like Frenzy and Barricade tandem.

Auto Bot wrote:Vehicles can't get into buildings.

But something popping out of the vehicle can. Just like Frenzy and Barricade tandem.

and Barricade can still act as that vehicle, and do so wwithout drawing undue attention, with Soundwave going into the building with his minions.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Vehicles can't get into buildings.

But something popping out of the vehicle can. Just like Frenzy and Barricade tandem.

and Barricade can still act as that vehicle, and do so wwithout drawing undue attention, with Soundwave going into the building with his minions.

You mean a small Soundwave? Human size or smaller?

Auto Bot wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Vehicles can't get into buildings.

But something popping out of the vehicle can. Just like Frenzy and Barricade tandem.

and Barricade can still act as that vehicle, and do so wwithout drawing undue attention, with Soundwave going into the building with his minions.

You mean a small Soundwave? Human size or smaller?

I mean a Soundwave who can be either small or large, depending upon the necessity of the mission, through mass conversion.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Vehicles can't get into buildings.

But something popping out of the vehicle can. Just like Frenzy and Barricade tandem.

and Barricade can still act as that vehicle, and do so wwithout drawing undue attention, with Soundwave going into the building with his minions.

You mean a small Soundwave? Human size or smaller?

I mean a Soundwave who can be either small or large, depending upon the necessity of the mission, through mass conversion.

Like a Swiss knife

Auto Bot wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Vehicles can't get into buildings.

But something popping out of the vehicle can. Just like Frenzy and Barricade tandem.

and Barricade can still act as that vehicle, and do so wwithout drawing undue attention, with Soundwave going into the building with his minions.

You mean a small Soundwave? Human size or smaller?

I mean a Soundwave who can be either small or large, depending upon the necessity of the mission, through mass conversion.

Like a Swiss knife

Pretty much.

Well hell, if he can mass convert so frikin' well....why not just shrink to a size that nobody can even see....say the size of a flea.....go in, get his job done.....all without being a stereo....hell he can stay a robot the whole frikin' time.

Here's a thought about the film: Did the Transformers choose their alt modes simply for disguises, or did they choose them based on their functionality and effectiveness in situations? Because I think that would ultimately decide what Soundwave would be. Frenzy's was obviously for disguise, Bumblebee's for speed etc., but the Decepticons seemed to choose forms capable of destruction, which fits them nicely. But would Soundwave? Originally, the toys were basically all in disguise, hence Megatron's and Soundwave's "shrinkage", but the film kind of dismissed that, since the 'bots were having massive battles in the city in full view of everyone, forfeiting any 'blending in' to stay unnoticed. I guess only time and the next film will tell, but one thing is clear, we will all be happy to see Soundwave in the next film no matter what he is.

It was far better during the good old G1 days. Teletran1 is the one deciding what alt mode fits who.

Hellbender wrote:Here's a thought about the film: Did the Transformers choose their alt modes simply for disguises, or did they choose them based on their functionality and effectiveness in situations? Because I think that would ultimately decide what Soundwave would be. Frenzy's was obviously for disguise, Bumblebee's for speed etc., but the Decepticons seemed to choose forms capable of destruction, which fits them nicely. But would Soundwave? Originally, the toys were basically all in disguise, hence Megatron's and Soundwave's "shrinkage", but the film kind of dismissed that, since the 'bots were having massive battles in the city in full view of everyone, forfeiting any 'blending in' to stay unnoticed. I guess only time and the next film will tell, but one thing is clear, we will all be happy to see Soundwave in the next film no matter what he is.

Like Frenzy, Soundwave's would be almost purely for disguise, but also for the functionality of the recording and playback features. The purpoes for any alt mode is varies from character to character. They are all disguises, but the importance as a disguise varies. Like Bumblebee, it is also for speed, Like Prime it's capabilty to transport. Like Ratchet, it's the rescue features, For Brawl and Starscream it's the firepower. For Soundwave, Disguise in any situation is paramount. A disguise that enhances his primary functions is icing on the cake. a vehicular mode does not fit into that equation. Anything that Soundwave could do as a vehicle would be better covered by Barricade because a police car is able to park anywhere outdoors and sit there for hours without being suspicious.

technically his form doesn't have to be for disguise since he is the Decepticon Communications Officer, which means he deals with communication in a broader sense not just covert missions

Great Atlas wrote:technically his form doesn't have to be for disguise since he is the Decepticon Communications Officer, which means he deals with communication in a broader sense not just covert missions

Yes, he is, but he primarilty deals in covert communications and intelligence. If you remember, he was always involved in some form of espionage. He really didn't do much in the way of "communications". Most of his work was espionage, even on his own men with his telepathy, according to his bio. As far as on Earth goes, all their alternate modes were disguises, though on Cyberrpn, they were primarily for other functions, though, even then that function could have been purely disguise as well.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Well hell, if he can mass convert so frikin' well....why not just shrink to a size that nobody can even see....say the size of a flea.....go in, get his job done.....all without being a stereo....hell he can stay a robot the whole frikin' time.

Exactly. That's the problem with mass conversion. Where does it end? If he can shrink in both robot and alt forms, why bother with the alt form?

And why wouldn't they just put this technology in all the robots? Seems pretty helpful.

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Well hell, if he can mass convert so frikin' well....why not just shrink to a size that nobody can even see....say the size of a flea.....go in, get his job done.....all without being a stereo....hell he can stay a robot the whole frikin' time.

Exactly. That's the problem with mass conversion. Where does it end? If he can shrink in both robot and alt forms, why bother with the alt form?

And why wouldn't they just put this technology in all the robots? Seems pretty helpful.

Because mass conversion isn't some technology bluilt into a design. It's a part of the genetc make-up of only a few rare characters. And, from a movie standpoint, it is better to gonly give it to one or two characters. That adds to the mystery of that character as what makes him so unique. Why can he do this and how? It just adds to the plot. Secondly, even mass conversion has limits. You can only compress the atoms and subatomic particles so much. The amount of size and mass that can be converted is predetermined by the needs of the alternate mode. That means Soundwave can only mass convert down to the size and mass of a stereo.

Tramp wrote:

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Well hell, if he can mass convert so frikin' well....why not just shrink to a size that nobody can even see....say the size of a flea.....go in, get his job done.....all without being a stereo....hell he can stay a robot the whole frikin' time.

Exactly. That's the problem with mass conversion. Where does it end? If he can shrink in both robot and alt forms, why bother with the alt form?

And why wouldn't they just put this technology in all the robots? Seems pretty helpful.

Because mass conversion isn't some technology bluilt into a design. It's a part of the genetc make-up of only a few rare characters. And, from a movie standpoint, it is better to gonly give it to one or two characters. That adds to the mystery of that character as what makes him so unique. Why can he do this and how? It just adds to the plot. Secondly, even mass conversion has limits. You can only compress the atoms and subatomic particles so much. The amount of size and mass that can be converted is predetermined by the needs of the alternate mode. That means Soundwave can only mass convert down to the size and mass of a stereo.

That was soo pulled out of your ass.

Anywho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0ANkag2nM

"Excellent Soundwave. Now monitor their progress....by hiding in plain sight!!!"

Priceless & relevant. Can't beat that!!

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Well hell, if he can mass convert so frikin' well....why not just shrink to a size that nobody can even see....say the size of a flea.....go in, get his job done.....all without being a stereo....hell he can stay a robot the whole frikin' time.

Exactly. That's the problem with mass conversion. Where does it end? If he can shrink in both robot and alt forms, why bother with the alt form?

And why wouldn't they just put this technology in all the robots? Seems pretty helpful.

Because mass conversion isn't some technology bluilt into a design. It's a part of the genetc make-up of only a few rare characters. And, from a movie standpoint, it is better to gonly give it to one or two characters. That adds to the mystery of that character as what makes him so unique. Why can he do this and how? It just adds to the plot. Secondly, even mass conversion has limits. You can only compress the atoms and subatomic particles so much. The amount of size and mass that can be converted is predetermined by the needs of the alternate mode. That means Soundwave can only mass convert down to the size and mass of a stereo.

That was soo pulled out of your ass.

Anywho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0ANkag2nM

"Excellent Soundwave. Now monitor their progress....by hiding in plain sight!!!"

Priceless & relevant. Can't beat that!!

Actually, Cyberplex, no, it wasn't. It was taken directly out of TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 page 50. Go read it if you don't believe me.

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Well hell, if he can mass convert so frikin' well....why not just shrink to a size that nobody can even see....say the size of a flea.....go in, get his job done.....all without being a stereo....hell he can stay a robot the whole frikin' time.

Exactly. That's the problem with mass conversion. Where does it end? If he can shrink in both robot and alt forms, why bother with the alt form?

And why wouldn't they just put this technology in all the robots? Seems pretty helpful.

Because mass conversion isn't some technology bluilt into a design. It's a part of the genetc make-up of only a few rare characters. And, from a movie standpoint, it is better to gonly give it to one or two characters. That adds to the mystery of that character as what makes him so unique. Why can he do this and how? It just adds to the plot. Secondly, even mass conversion has limits. You can only compress the atoms and subatomic particles so much. The amount of size and mass that can be converted is predetermined by the needs of the alternate mode. That means Soundwave can only mass convert down to the size and mass of a stereo.

That was soo pulled out of your ass.

Anywho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0ANkag2nM

"Excellent Soundwave. Now monitor their progress....by hiding in plain sight!!!"

Priceless & relevant. Can't beat that!!

Actually, Cyberplex, no, it wasn't. It was taken directly out of TF: More than Meets the Eye #8 page 50. Go read it if you don't believe me.

....Ok, it was pulled out of somebody else's ass.

Obi-wan Kanobi wrote:who's the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:
....Ok, it was pulled out of somebody else's ass.

Obi-wan Kanobi wrote:who's the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?

It wasn't pulled out of anybody's ass. It was pulled out of the heads It is how Mass conversion works. It gives a pseudoscientific explaination for the ability, which is on par with most science fiction. A lot of thought was put into making sense of everything we saw in the cartoons and comics and figuring out how and why it works. This is the official reason for how mass conversion works.

Where does the mass go? Because according to EVERY SCIENTIFIC LAW EVER MADE, it has to go somewhere.

Tramp wrote:And, from a movie standpoint, it is better to gonly give it to one or two characters. That adds to the mystery of that character as what makes him so unique. Why can he do this and how? It just adds to the plot.

I fail to see how it improves the movie's plot to make the audience really confused. Hell, I've been watching Transformers for 20 years and I don't have a clue what's going on in this thread anymore. The fact that this debate has gone on for 20+ pages is why they can't do mass conversion. It takes an ungodly amount of explanation for it to make any sense, even to those who comprehend it, outside of suspension of disbelief.

Shadowman wrote:Where does the mass go? Because according to EVERY SCIENTIFIC LAW EVER MADE, it has to go somewhere.

That is why it is called a pseudoscientific reason. Obviously it breaks the laws of physics if you think hard enough about it. The point is that it sounds plausible enough for the average person, and that is all that matters. Is faster than light travel possible? Not according to every known law fo physics we have. Yet it happens all the time in Science fiction and they all have some pseudoscientific reason for how it works. It's the same thing with mass conversion. As long as it looks cool, it fits the story, and they can come up with some believable reason for why it works, the audience will believe it.

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

Tramp wrote:And, from a movie standpoint, it is better to gonly give it to one or two characters. That adds to the mystery of that character as what makes him so unique. Why can he do this and how? It just adds to the plot.

I fail to see how it improves the movie's plot to make the audience really confused. Hell, I've been watching Transformers for 20 years and I don't have a clue what's going on in this thread anymore. The fact that this debate has gone on for 20+ pages is why they can't do mass conversion. It takes an ungodly amount of explanation for it to make any sense, even to those who comprehend it, outside of suspension of disbelief.

It doesn't take ungodly amounts of explaination. Some people just don't like mass conversion and consider it "silly" which is their opinion. It doesn't mean the mass conversion does not work or can't work in a live-action movie. It has been done to great effect. And it wouldn't confuse people. When I first saw G1 Soundwave grow from a tiny cassete player intoa huge robot, my first thoughs were "cool!" I was 13 at the time. I didn't need to know how or why it worked. I just knew it worked. When I first saw Star Wars and saw the lightsaber activate for the first time. My first reaction was "cool!" not how does that work. Mass conversion does not need a reason to work. It just works. Though we do have a reason how it works. Regardless, it is a fantastic element which is no more or less fantastic than a man flying without any aid, or faster than light travel, or a lightsaber, or the Force. That is what suspension of disbelief is for.

So let's get this straight:

He can't be a military or civillian surveilence vehicle because it has nothing to do with sound or soundwaves & would stick out like a sore thumb sitting parked for hours in the same spot. Big-ass boombox appearing out of nowhere in a top-secret area would be perfect, as nobody would question where it came from & just assume somebody else brought it in, because big-ass boomboxes are allowed in top-secret areas.

He also can't be a surveiilence truck because a smash & grab should be handled by another Decepticon more known for being stupid.

Minions can't do the job because Soundave has to do it all himself, yet he still needs them for help. & he couldn't do a drop-off & pick-up because that would be Barricade's job.

Being a boombox, he would be immobile...yet his minions that can't help but still have to can carry him to his desired location undetected. But they still can't help, even though they do.

Mass shifting is allowed as anywhere from the size of a 30-50 ft. tall robot to the size of said big-ass boombox, but no bigger or smaller, because anything bigger than a 30-50 ft robot or smaller than a big-ass boombox would just be silly & wouldn't be acceptable in the realm of science fiction.


& all of this because if Michael Bay puts Soundwave in TF2, it has been decreed by the mighty Don Murphy that he must be done "right"....as well as Hasbro, even though they also allegedly threw a big b*tch-fit about Starscream's robot mode & yet his robot design never changed from being a bug-faced gorilla with chicken legs.



Wow sir, you have convinced me. Soundwave must be nothing other than a big-ass boombox. because it is the perfect Transformer espionage alt-mode.