The Energon Pub

zorian wrote:Coolyfett chill man. I have generally agreed with you in this thread ,not every word mind you ,but the giest of it.
However the repeated post that is being done from your account is annoying me, so I know it is annoying the people on the other side of this debate. That is not good debate style and weakens your argument.

Tramp if I am read you correctly your biggest argument* why you do not want Soundwave to be a vehicle is that it is conspicuous and not in fitting with his G1 infiltration role. This seems to be more important you than to others, please understand this. I personally always thought of Soundwave as more of an intelligence officer who analized the info that is spies (cassettes) and his ability to intercept/decode broadcasts. After that I see him as physically powerful. Then a comm officer. Then as an infiltrator. You obvously see him as an infiltrator first.
On the topic of being able to show the info... he could always broadcast it to other cybertronians through radio or cable or ever do a partial transformation to a screen like the weapon shifts nearly every TF in the movie did.

Also I wouldn't mind some mass shifting ,but I never really liked the shifting by 1000's of %s and the partial shifting.
Something else to keep in mind is that the only reason that Soundwave was a tapedeck in the first place was there was already a toy in an older Japanese toy line. Same with reflector.




*(not reason which is probably you want him to be as close to G1 as possible)

Yes, I do see him as an infiltrator first, because that is what he mostly did in the field, then as an intelligence officer analyzing the data he and his minions gathered, then as Commmunications Officer, and finally as Megatron's advisor equal to Starscream in authority, hence why he needs to be capable of growing to full 20+ foot size in robot mode.

It was also his alternate mode that he used to record, analyze and play back the data that he and his minions gathered. And from a movie perspective, this also makes it better for him to have his stereo mode because, unlike a vehicle, a stereo entertainment system, particularly an Audio/visual system, uses every internal component for the purpose of translating electronic signals into sound and visuals that others can see and hear. Vehicles require some of their systems for mobility, and all of the internal components of the robot mode are derived from its alternate mode, thus, in robot mode, all of those internal components are being diverted to other tasks than communications or data recording, analysis, and playback. Whereas in a stereo mode, all those components are devoted to that primary task, which is what a stereo system does anyway. He'd just be more powerful, with hidden surveylance features built into the package, which are still devoted to that one function. It is a dedicated system. A vehicle isn't. Too much of a vehicle's systems are needed for mobility since that is a vehicle's primary purpose. Very little of his internal resources would be devoted to communications, data analysis, or recording and playing back audio/visual data. A stereo system, sacrifices mobility for dedicated service to a single function. As an alternate mode, it also provides an ideal disguise in any situation and location.

And, yes, I do know that he came from a previous Japanese line. My other point is that is was still that previous toy's alternate mode which gave him his name when he was turned into a Transformer. He got the name "Soundwave" because he was a tape deck— a device whos sole purpose was the recording and playing back of audio data, of soundwaves. Hence the name.

Tramp prove that an automotive drive can not be used for the processing and interpitation of souundwaves.

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp as you keep posting your determined argument has it ever occured to you just how much attention and suspison inanimate object that is where it is not supossed to be draws?

This will be more than doubled in the next film as this will be something service personel of all kinds will be on the lookout for.

Actually, an inanimate object, particularly a stereo wouldn't draw attention because they are located everywhere. Office employees routinely have stereos to play their favorite music. other officies have an office stereo which everyone listens to. Thus, most people would likely assume that the stereo was either brought in by the boss, or by another employee. They're also unlikely to ask questions. This was demonstrated quite clearly with Frenzy's infiltration of Air Force One when the stewardess found him in stereo mode in the elevator and carried him down with her without a second thought. Soldiers, particularly ones who work inside vehicles, like a communications van, often have stereos. I had one that we played quitely in our van on duty to pass the time, or in our tent. This is not so common on the front lines where it could give away a position, but behind allied lines, away from the front, it was quite common when I was in. back on base, this would be much more common. People, both civilian or military like to listen to music while they work. That is why stereos are so common in the workplace, and why a stereo alternate mode would blend in so well. They are that ubiquitous.

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp prove that an automotive drive can not be used for the processing and interpretation of souundwaves.

An engine and drive train, is designed for locomotion, not collection and playing back of audio signals. the steering system is designed to allow the vehicle to turn and to control the vehicle. The brakes allow it to stop. None of these systems collect or analyse audio/visual signals. How much of a car is devoted to music? An antenna and the stereo, neither of which are necessary to the operation of said vehicle, and take up very little of the vehicle's internal resources.

Tramp wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp prove that an automotive drive can not be used for the processing and interpretation of souundwaves.

An engine and drive train, is designed for locomotion, not collection and playing back of audio signals. the steering system is designed to allow the vehicle to turn and to control the vehicle. The brakes allow it to stop. None of these systems collect or analyse audio/visual signals. How much of a car is devoted to music? An antenna and the stereo, neither of which are necessary to the operation of said vehicle, and take up very little of the vehicle's internal resources.

I take it you failed physics then

The automotive dive train runs on the principals of vibration and can be used to generate sound waves. They can even be tuned to generate specific sequences of sound waves.

Furthermore the amount of surveilance equipment in a surveilance vehical far outnumber the mechanical components.

Tramp wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp as you keep posting your determined argument has it ever occured to you just how much attention and suspison inanimate object that is where it is not supossed to be draws?

This will be more than doubled in the next film as this will be something service personel of all kinds will be on the lookout for.

Actually, an inanimate object, particularly a stereo wouldn't draw attention because they are located everywhere. Office employees routinely have stereos to play their favorite music. other officies have an office stereo which everyone listens to. Thus, most people would likely assume that the stereo was either brought in by the boss, or by another employee. They're also unlikely to ask questions. This was demonstrated quite clearly with Frenzy's infiltration of Air Force One when the stewardess found him in stereo mode in the elevator and carried him down with her without a second thought. Soldiers, particularly ones who work inside vehicles, like a communications van, often have stereos. I had one that we played quitely in our van on duty to pass the time, or in our tent. This is not so common on the front lines where it could give away a position, but behind allied lines, away from the front, it was quite common when I was in. back on base, this would be much more common. People, both civilian or military like to listen to music while they work. That is why stereos are so common in the workplace, and why a stereo alternate mode would blend in so well. They are that ubiquitous.

Even one that is not suppost to be there

Jar Axel wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp prove that an automotive drive can not be used for the processing and interpretation of souundwaves.

An engine and drive train, is designed for locomotion, not collection and playing back of audio signals. the steering system is designed to allow the vehicle to turn and to control the vehicle. The brakes allow it to stop. None of these systems collect or analyse audio/visual signals. How much of a car is devoted to music? An antenna and the stereo, neither of which are necessary to the operation of said vehicle, and take up very little of the vehicle's internal resources.

I take it you failed physics then

The automotive dive train runs on the principals of vibration and can be used to generate sound waves. They can even be tuned to generate specific sequences of sound waves.

Furthermore the amount of surveilance equipment in a surveilance vehical far outnumber the mechanical components.

Of course it generates soundwaves, but the kind they create are just noise, as a byproduct. They aren't designed for the sole purpose of producing partiucular types of audio signals, nor are they designed to record or interpret incoming signals.

Also, I worked in a communcations van when I was in the Army, and no, they do not outnumber the mechanical components. They are limited to the shelter in the back. The mechanical components are still dominant.

And, for the record, I never even took Physics. I didn''t have to.

Jar Axel wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp as you keep posting your determined argument has it ever occured to you just how much attention and suspison inanimate object that is where it is not supossed to be draws?

This will be more than doubled in the next film as this will be something service personel of all kinds will be on the lookout for.

Actually, an inanimate object, particularly a stereo wouldn't draw attention because they are located everywhere. Office employees routinely have stereos to play their favorite music. other officies have an office stereo which everyone listens to. Thus, most people would likely assume that the stereo was either brought in by the boss, or by another employee. They're also unlikely to ask questions. This was demonstrated quite clearly with Frenzy's infiltration of Air Force One when the stewardess found him in stereo mode in the elevator and carried him down with her without a second thought. Soldiers, particularly ones who work inside vehicles, like a communications van, often have stereos. I had one that we played quitely in our van on duty to pass the time, or in our tent. This is not so common on the front lines where it could give away a position, but behind allied lines, away from the front, it was quite common when I was in. back on base, this would be much more common. People, both civilian or military like to listen to music while they work. That is why stereos are so common in the workplace, and why a stereo alternate mode would blend in so well. They are that ubiquitous.

Even one that is not suppost to be there

And, how is anyone to know it is "not supposed" to be there? They wouldn't know. More than likely they would assume another employee or the boss brought it in. Therefore, they would likely believe that it was supposed to be there.

How about a regular car? And his Head could detach and become a Stereo...

He could also be a Movie type of Headmaster...

I still stick by my original post, Soundwave should be a custom import racer with a wicked sound system. But, if his alt form will be based on his name, and therefore his function, he could be a supersonic airliner like the Concorde. It fits the Decepticon tradition of jet modes, and the Concorde flies faster than the speed of sound, creating sonic booms, or "soundwaves" as it flies. That, and he would be huge!

zorian wrote:Coolyfett chill man. I have generally agreed with you in this thread ,not every word mind you ,but the giest of it.
However the repeated post that is being done from your account is annoying me, so I know it is annoying the people on the other side of this debate. That is not good debate style and weakens your argument.

Im not debating......I don't have to debate. I know the facts. Grab some tissue paper because.....

SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

try not to stare too hard at the navy blue.

Tramp wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:Tramp as you keep posting your determined argument has it ever occured to you just how much attention and suspison inanimate object that is where it is not supossed to be draws?

This will be more than doubled in the next film as this will be something service personel of all kinds will be on the lookout for.

Actually, an inanimate object, particularly a stereo wouldn't draw attention because they are located everywhere. Office employees routinely have stereos to play their favorite music. other officies have an office stereo which everyone listens to. Thus, most people would likely assume that the stereo was either brought in by the boss, or by another employee. They're also unlikely to ask questions. This was demonstrated quite clearly with Frenzy's infiltration of Air Force One when the stewardess found him in stereo mode in the elevator and carried him down with her without a second thought. Soldiers, particularly ones who work inside vehicles, like a communications van, often have stereos. I had one that we played quitely in our van on duty to pass the time, or in our tent. This is not so common on the front lines where it could give away a position, but behind allied lines, away from the front, it was quite common when I was in. back on base, this would be much more common. People, both civilian or military like to listen to music while they work. That is why stereos are so common in the workplace, and why a stereo alternate mode would blend in so well. They are that ubiquitous.

Even one that is not suppost to be there

And, how is anyone to know it is "not supposed" to be there? They wouldn't know. More than likely they would assume another employee or the boss brought it in. Therefore, they would likely believe that it was supposed to be there.

Mind making an argument that isn't full of holes?


If something is where it should not be then it is quite obvious it is out of place. A personal radio in a secure area for example or a cellphone in area they are not allowed is another.

As far as tuneing a drive train to play music been done; takes some helacious modification but it can be done. And it certainly makes more sence to me for a transformer to beable to mod and unmod his components at will rather than shink to 1/100th his size.

Yea I've been inside one of those things too, not to mention I've built motors before. Hell when I was at the Vo-Tech (NWLTC Minden) we built two racecars from scratch. The mechanical components of a vehical actualy take up very little space; nothing realy compared to only a few pieces of high end monitering equipment. Just like you would find in a surveilance vehical.

Coolyfett wrote:SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

Enough of that please, you've made your point

Mkall wrote:

Coolyfett wrote:SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

Enough of that please, you've made your point

FINE!!!!!!

IM DONE ON SEIBERTRON...YOU WILL SEE AFTER TF2!!!!!

WATCH!!!!!

ILL BE BACK AFTER TF2 HITS THE BIG SCREEN TO RUB IT IN YOUR FACE!!!!!YOU CAN'T FIRE ME I QUIT!!!!

SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

:SMOKE BOMB: and Coolyfett vanishes.

Coolyfett wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Coolyfett wrote:SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

Enough of that please, you've made your point

FINE!!!!!!

IM DONE ON SEIBERTRON...YOU WILL SEE AFTER TF2!!!!!

WATCH!!!!!

ILL BE BACK AFTER TF2 HITS THE BIG SCREEN TO RUB IT IN YOUR FACE!!!!!YOU CAN'T FIRE ME I QUIT!!!!

Someone have a Vallium?

SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

:SMOKE BOMB: and Coolyfett vanishes.

Someone have a Vallium?

You Cooly, I'm not disagreeing with you, I don't think they'd make him a stereo either. However, how can you be so utterly certain?

What reasons do you have?

Coolyfett wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Coolyfett wrote:SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

Enough of that please, you've made your point

FINE!!!!!!

IM DONE ON SEIBERTRON...YOU WILL SEE AFTER TF2!!!!!

WATCH!!!!!

ILL BE BACK AFTER TF2 HITS THE BIG SCREEN TO RUB IT IN YOUR FACE!!!!!YOU CAN'T FIRE ME I QUIT!!!!

SOUNDWAVE WILL NOT BE A STEREO HE WILL BE A VEHICLE.

:SMOKE BOMB: and Coolyfett vanishes.

Hey buddy, all of the big blue caps are not necessary.
If you are done then I can easily disable your account and make sure that you can never come back here or view pages again.
Is this your wish since you said you are done with seibertron?

Jar Axel wrote:
Mind making an argument that isn't full of holes?


If something is where it should not be then it is quite obvious it is out of place. A personal radio in a secure area for example or a cellphone in area they are not allowed is another.

We had personal stereos in secure locations. It wasn't that unusual. My RATT rig was a "secure" location, and we were allowed our stereo. Most places allow stereos. Most places have stereos in them. That is why seeing a new one would not be out of place. Unless there is an absolute need for utter silence or a need for no electromagnetic contamination (a clean room where they make microchips, for example), then there is no real need to disallow stereos. Think about it. IF Air Force One, perhaps one of the most secure government facilities is allowed stereos, whicjh would be how Frenzy was unoticed, then why wouldn't other secure locations allow them as well? Why would a new stereo be so noticed as out of place in other locations if one wasn't on Air Force One?
The answer is that it wouldn't people would just assume it was new and that someone had brought it in. It would not be that out of the ordinary.

As far as tuneing a drive train to play music been done; takes some helacious modification but it can be done. And it certainly makes more sence to me for a transformer to beable to mod and unmod his components at will rather than shink to 1/100th his size.

Not to me it doesn't. As you said, it takes helacious modification to do something the drive train simply was not designed to do. The drive train has but one function: to propel the vehicle. That is all it does. That is its purpose.

Yea I've been inside one of those things too, not to mention I've built motors before. Hell when I was at the Vo-Tech (NWLTC Minden) we built two racecars from scratch. The mechanical components of a vehical actualy take up very little space; nothing realy compared to only a few pieces of high end monitering equipment. Just like you would find in a surveilance vehical.

I don't know what you call "very little space" but the entire undercarriage fiu filled with mechanical components such as the transmission, brakes, exhaust, drive shaft cables, hoses, fuel tank, oil pan, suspension, etc, and under the hood is stuffed with the engine, fan, alternator, etc. Those components do indeed take up a lot of the vehicle's structure and space. The rest is just the cockpit where the driver and passengers, fit along with the steering wheel, controls, and gauges are. What is left is varying amounts of empty space. for cargo or what-have-you. The majority of any vehicle's components, not its space, is devoted to making the vehicle function. It is not a dedicated surveylance or communications system.

The vehicle used for a military communications rig is not mostly communciations gear. That fits inside a shelter in the bed of the truck. it is not part of the truck itself. The vehicle is the cab and its mechanical components. not the comm shelter on its back. The shelter is mostly comm gear, not the vehicle.

i wouldn't be surprised if soundwave starts as a boombox at first, as a nod to fans then scans another - most likely vehicular - form a la Bumblebee.

No, if he does start out as a boom box, he'll stay one. Bumblebee was the only character inthe first move to scan a new alternate mode, and that was for a very specific reason. The junker form was to allow Sam to be able to afford to buy him. The new model was to impress Sam and Mikela.

Tramp wrote:No, if he does start out as a boom box, he'll stay one. Bumblebee was the only character inthe first move to scan a new alternate mode, and that was for a very specific reason. The junker form was to allow Sam to be able to afford to buy him. The new model was to impress Sam and Mikela.

And it was (roughly) the same size & mass. If Soundwave started as a Boombox he'd have to scan something Boombox sized, like a lunchbox...
Oh god, I've just had the best image in my head ever!

Justicity wrote:

Tramp wrote:No, if he does start out as a boom box, he'll stay one. Bumblebee was the only character inthe first move to scan a new alternate mode, and that was for a very specific reason. The junker form was to allow Sam to be able to afford to buy him. The new model was to impress Sam and Mikela.

And it was (roughly) the same size & mass. If Soundwave started as a Boombox he'd have to scan something Boombox sized, like a lunchbox...
Oh god, I've just had the best image in my head ever!

Not necessarily given his mass conversion capabilities. Most likely we will see mass conversion in the second movie because now that the first movie has dealt with the idea of transforming robotic alien life forms, and mystical power sources, they now have the time to properly devote to doing it right without risking destroying suspension of disbelief.

Tramp wrote:

Justicity wrote:

Tramp wrote:No, if he does start out as a boom box, he'll stay one. Bumblebee was the only character inthe first move to scan a new alternate mode, and that was for a very specific reason. The junker form was to allow Sam to be able to afford to buy him. The new model was to impress Sam and Mikela.

And it was (roughly) the same size & mass. If Soundwave started as a Boombox he'd have to scan something Boombox sized, like a lunchbox...
Oh god, I've just had the best image in my head ever!

Not necessarily given his mass conversion capabilities. Most likely we will see mass conversion in the second movie because now that the first movie has dealt with the idea of transforming robotic alien life forms, and mystical power sources, they now have the time to properly devote to doing it right without risking destroying suspension of disbelief.

Hrrrm... I really can't see it happening, though I'd like it too. Look at the complexity of the designs, as you yourself said, each part of the real machine is used to design the robot forms. What would happen in a mass-shift? Each piece becomes bigger (a boombox Soundwave with an incredibly large CD lens or speakers?) or there's suddenly many of one piece where there was only one before? Or forget that all together & go for a more "blocky" G1 approach?

Justicity wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Justicity wrote:

Tramp wrote:No, if he does start out as a boom box, he'll stay one. Bumblebee was the only character inthe first move to scan a new alternate mode, and that was for a very specific reason. The junker form was to allow Sam to be able to afford to buy him. The new model was to impress Sam and Mikela.

And it was (roughly) the same size & mass. If Soundwave started as a Boombox he'd have to scan something Boombox sized, like a lunchbox...
Oh god, I've just had the best image in my head ever!

Not necessarily given his mass conversion capabilities. Most likely we will see mass conversion in the second movie because now that the first movie has dealt with the idea of transforming robotic alien life forms, and mystical power sources, they now have the time to properly devote to doing it right without risking destroying suspension of disbelief.

Hrrrm... I really can't see it happening, though I'd like it too. Look at the complexity of the designs, as you yourself said, each part of the real machine is used to design the robot forms. What would happen in a mass-shift? Each piece becomes bigger (a boombox Soundwave with an incredibly large CD lens or speakers?) or there's suddenly many of one piece where there was only one before? Or forget that all together & go for a more "blocky" G1 approach?

No, each of the components would indeed become larger. Remember, at least according to DW's G1 comics, Mass conversion happens at the sub-atomic level. The cool thing is though, that there are so many small parts, moving so fast that it would look like he was just unfolding from this normal sized boombox to this huge monstrocity of a robot. If you've seen my concept sketch, that is pretty much how I would want him to look.

May I have a link to the sketch? I don't think I have...
Though I guess with good editing it wouldn't look too bad.
But we've already had a CD player with Frenzy, don't you think that would confuse younger kids & dizzy parents, tugged along to go see the movie with their little darlings as it's a PG-13/12A???