The Energon Pub

Shadowman wrote:No, we won't, because you're wrong. You can say you're right, but you're not. That's a false claim with no proof.

I'm tired, and all you do is spout the same stupid rhetoric over and over.

What would you do if Soundwave wasn't exactly as he was in that single incarnation? I'm curious.

First off, I have never claimed I was absolutely corect. neither of us knows for sure what they will do with Soundwave. We can only speculate. I have given what I feel would be best for the character to keep him iconic and fit in with the rest of the movie. What would I do if he was completelyt different? I don't know. Would it kill the movie? probably not. Would I dislike the character? Probably. I wasn't that fond of Bonecrusher based off of the concept drawings. i couldn't make heads or tails out of him. He loked like some metal ogre, not something that could turn into that minesweeper.

Simply put, neither of us will know who is right or who is wrong until the new movie comes out.

Tramp wrote:First off, I have never claimed I was absolutely corect.

Sorry, but I gotta call bullsh*t on this one. All you have done in this entire thread is shoot down other people's idea of what they could do with a character named Soundwave because only your vision of what Soundwave would do justice to the name.

& I aslo have to call bullsh*t on your argument about why Bumblebee's changes are acceptable but anything done to soundwave would not be. Bumblebee was named what he was simply because he was a yellow bug....not because he was small, cute,or just yellow. & even then the got that wrong in the movie, too, because he is no longer small & cute compared to the others. But he was able to retain the name & have it make sense because they altered his robot enough too look like a bee, therefore the name still worked.

I think i figured it out Tramps argument about Soundwave being a boombox so he can sneak into a building. I think i figured out how to get him into a building w/o a boombox or mass conversion. I mentioned this befre but in 34 pages people forget or didn't read it. Soundwave should have his giant robot mode and a communications vehicle or something but instead of having minions jump out of his vehicle mode the vehicle breaks down and becomes his 5 minions. So Soundwave weould be kind of a combiner. It would be cool because he would be able to sneak into a building and since all of them are part of Soundwave its like he is breaking into somewhere from 5 different locations. Then to make an escape they all combine into there vehicle or robot mode and make their escape. And if one of the minions is like damadged or something the larger robot mode and vehcile mode can compensate for the loss of 1 or 2 of them. There he is a vehicle, can sneak into a building, control communications, have minions and would be a cool realistic version of soundwave.

Shadowman wrote:See what I'm doing? The same thing, over and over, no actual facts, and basing everything I say on personal opinion?

I'm pretending to be YOU, Trampy.

See, I can do this all day long, it's hilarious. I'm pissing you off in exactly the way you piss everyone else off.

Just making sure he noticed.

glitched9700 wrote:I think i figured it out Tramps argument about Soundwave being a boombox so he can sneak into a building. I think i figured out how to get him into a building w/o a boombox or mass conversion. I mentioned this befre but in 34 pages people forget or didn't read it. Soundwave should have his giant robot mode and a communications vehicle or something but instead of having minions jump out of his vehicle mode the vehicle breaks down and becomes his 5 minions. So Soundwave weould be kind of a combiner. It would be cool because he would be able to sneak into a building and since all of them are part of Soundwave its like he is breaking into somewhere from 5 different locations. Then to make an escape they all combine into there vehicle or robot mode and make their escape. And if one of the minions is like damadged or something the larger robot mode and vehcile mode can compensate for the loss of 1 or 2 of them. There he is a vehicle, can sneak into a building, control communications, have minions and would be a cool realistic version of soundwave.

That's actually a pretty cool idea. Really original.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:First off, I have never claimed I was absolutely corect.

Sorry, but I gotta call bullsh*t on this one. All you have done in this entire thread is shoot down other people's idea of what they could do with a character named Soundwave because only your vision of what Soundwave would do justice to the name.

I have shot down those "ideas" because they don't fit Soundwave. Not once have I said that I know exactly what the movie makers will do. I know what has been officially reported abd have based my arguments purely on those facts. What the movie makers do in the end we won't know for certain until they start production on the first sequel.

& I aslo have to call bullsh*t on your argument about why Bumblebee's changes are acceptable but anything done to soundwave would not be. Bumblebee was named what he was simply because he was a yellow bug....not because he was small, cute,or just yellow. & even then the got that wrong in the movie, too, because he is no longer small & cute compared to the others. But he was able to retain the name & have it make sense because they altered his robot enough too look like a bee, therefore the name still worked.

His alternate mode was still related to his original design too. It was still a yellow car. Honestly, i would not have used the Camaro for Bumblebee if it had been my choice. Since they would never have been able to use the Bug regardless of Bay's likes or dislikes, I would have chosen a smaller,"cuter" car, like a Metro. Regardless, that is not as big a difference as going form a tape deck[b] to a [b]military vehicle which would stick out like a sore thumb in the middle of the city. You can't make that radical of a change without completely making it a different character, especially on a character who got his name from his alternate mode. Any changes like that have to be subtle and closely related. That was why Blackout was not Soundwave. You can't make Soundwave into something he was never meant to be, and doesn't fit who he is as a character.

Every one of these characters was an homage to G1 in one way or another; and in most cases, many ways. They only thing they really did was make them more realistic lookiong and modernized. You are talking about completely changing a character simply because you don't like Mass conversion.

There is nothing inherently wrong with mass conversion. Deal with it and get over it. More than likely they will be bringing mass conversion into the next movie. the Allspark was a foreshadowing. Of that, I am sure. And, based upon all of the official words I've read and heard, Soundwave is the most likely candidate for it because that was the very reason why he was held off for the sequels in the first place.

Do you honestly believe that they would have set Soundwave aside for a sequel, instead of having either Frenzy or Blackout named "Soundwave", if they weren't going to bring in Mass conversion and make him more like his icomic form (A CD plyer with mass conversion)?

Tramp wrote:There is nothing inherently wrong with mass conversion.

Only everything about it. Its fine for the Allspark, since its all mysterious and life-giving, but for anything else in the movie universe? No thank you. The very idea of Mass Conversion is ridiculous. Yes, even more ridiculous than robots turning into earth vehicles.

Sentinel Pax wrote:

Tramp wrote:There is nothing inherently wrong with mass conversion.

Only everything about it. Its fine for the Allspark, since its all mysterious and life-giving, but for anything else in the movie universe? No thank you. The very idea of Mass Conversion is ridiculous. Yes, even more ridiculous than robots turning into earth vehicles.

There is nothing inherently wrong or ridiculous about it. IF it were, then the very concept of characters growing or shrinking would never be used in science fiction or fantasy stories, nor neve have been used. IF you look at the number of movies, comics, novels, and cartoons, that have used extremem size changes over the years, it shows just how much of a [b[]staple[/b] it has been for science fiction and fantasy. IF it were such a stupid idea it would never have been used in the first place. Its very longevitiy and prevalence is proof that it works as a viable fantastic element in science fiction and fantasy movies and stories in every medium. And whether you like it or not, it is an inherent part of TransFormers lore and should not be reomved simply because you don't like it.

Maybe it shouldn't be kept simply because you like it, then. I don't consider it an inherent part of Transformers lore. G1 is the only continuity with the consistent use of mass conversion.

How exactly would Mass Shifting work? Can you explain how it would look good?

Sentinel Pax wrote:Maybe it shouldn't be kept simply because you like it, then. I don't consider it an inherent part of Transformers lore. G1 is the only continuity with the consistent use of mass conversion.

Actually, that is not true. Mas conversion has been used throughout TF lore, including and up to Cybertron. The minicons Jolt, Sixspeed, and Reverb routinely used Mass covnersion so that the kids could fit inside them in vehicle mode. They went from robots about 6 or 7 feet tall to full sized cars and minicopter. Without mass covnersion, they would have been 4' long R/C vehicles. So, don't tell me that they didn't use mass conversion except in G1. Secondly, mass conversion served a purpose. It wasn't random. It served a specific purpose and fit the characters and there transformations. Which is moe silly, having a giant tape deck or having him shrink down as he transformed. Which is more silly, havng Megatron become a giant hand gun or shrink down to a normal sized one? Which is more silly, Braodside transformoing into a miniature aircraft carrier that could only fit toy planes, or grow to a full sized Aircraft carrier which is functional? Mass conversion allowed for all of these characters to take on a greater variety of useful alternate modes. Without it all you are left with is cars trucks, tanks and jet fighters. It limits the variety of characters and transformations. The whole point of the TransFormers was that anything—any device at all— could be a giant "robot in disguise", and you cannot do that without mass conversion. Otherwize, you are left with "bug sized" and impossibly collossal robots, neither of which are practicle. That is waht makes Mass conversion and other forms of size change a necessary part of TF lore.

Like it or not, mass conversion is a part of TF lore and has consistantly been a part of it.

Tramp wrote:Like it or not, mass conversion is a part of TF lore and has consistantly been a part of it.

Hey, fun fact: This is a new continuity, where lore means all of Jackshit.

Shadowman wrote:How exactly would Mass Shifting work? Can you explain how it would look good?

I have already "explained it". It works just like it says in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8. How would it look cool? with the intricacy of these designs. It works during the transformation, as the robot unfolds from the alternate mode, all those pieces build up and up to full size. Look at how the Allspark shrunk. It's the same principle. You do the growth or shrinkage during the transformation. IF you have him just grow without transforming, yes, it would look silly. But, by having it occur during the transformation, which is already extremely complex, the growth looks much more natural. It wouldn't look any different than when Frenzy's head became that tiny cell phone. That is how it could work on screen.

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:Like it or not, mass conversion is a part of TF lore and has consistantly been a part of it.

Hey, fun fact: This is a new continuity, where lore means all of Jackshit.

Wrong. Just because it is a new "continuity" doesn't mean that TF lore is thrown out the window. This movie series is full of TF lore and homages to the past. Every TF continuity follows the same basic laws and internal rules. They only real difference is some of the cast and changes in specific events. TransFormers is a multiverse with multiple stroies all happening in multiple continuities, all of which follow the same rules.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:Like it or not, mass conversion is a part of TF lore and has consistantly been a part of it.

Hey, fun fact: This is a new continuity, where lore means all of Jackshit.

Wrong. Just because it is a new "continuity" doesn't mean that TF lore is thrown out the window. This movie series is full of TF lore and homages to the past. Every TF continuity follows the same basic laws and internal rules. They only real difference is some of the cast and changes in specific events. TransFormers is a multiverse with multiple stroies all happening in multiple continuities, all of which follow the same rules.

And who says they have to use it? It's their movie, they can pick and choose concepts as they like.

You know what else has Mass Shifting as a big part of it's lore? Power Rangers. Remember how THAT movie went?

I find it interesting that you're clinging to the tidbit that Hasbro wants a musical alt mode for Soundwave, (which I've read, by the way, so please don't assume I haven't), yet in the new series, Soundwave appears to be a Scion-like vehicle.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:How exactly would Mass Shifting work? Can you explain how it would look good?

I have already "explained it". It works just like it says in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8. How would it look cool? with the intricacy of these designs. It works during the transformation, as the robot unfolds from the alternate mode, all those pieces build up and up to full size. Look at how the Allspark shrunk. It's the same principle. You do the growth or shrinkage during the transformation. IF you have him just grow without transforming, yes, it would look silly. But, by having it occur during the transformation, which is already extremely complex, the growth looks much more natural. It wouldn't look any different than when Frenzy's head became that tiny cell phone. That is how it could work on screen.

ok first off when i mentioned that cell phone thing you said it wasn't mass conversion so your full of ****. Also from that Frenzy has mass conversion and is very similar to soundwave so making another boombox would be the same as the first movie i don't think anyone wants to see yet another boombox sneaking around. AS far the turning a cartoon into a live action movie some sacrifices have to be made. Also what boombox are you talking about. I want you to show me a real life object that sounwave will be you cant just make it up becuase this is based in reality.

Tramp wrote: shrinkage during the transformation.

Nobody likes shrinkage.

glitched9700 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:How exactly would Mass Shifting work? Can you explain how it would look good?

I have already "explained it". It works just like it says in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8. How would it look cool? with the intricacy of these designs. It works during the transformation, as the robot unfolds from the alternate mode, all those pieces build up and up to full size. Look at how the Allspark shrunk. It's the same principle. You do the growth or shrinkage during the transformation. IF you have him just grow without transforming, yes, it would look silly. But, by having it occur during the transformation, which is already extremely complex, the growth looks much more natural. It wouldn't look any different than when Frenzy's head became that tiny cell phone. That is how it could work on screen.

ok first off when i mentioned that cell phone thing you said it wasn't mass conversion so your full of ****. Also from that Frenzy has mass conversion and is very similar to soundwave so making another boombox would be the same as the first movie i don't think anyone wants to see yet another boombox sneaking around. AS far the turning a cartoon into a live action movie some sacrifices have to be made. Also what boombox are you talking about. I want you to show me a real life object that sounwave will be you cant just make it up becuase this is based in reality.

I'm saying that the look of the mass conversion as seen on film would be similar to what we see of Frenzy when his heasd became the cell phone. As for the boombox. I'm talking about one of the larger models, about 19 inches by 10 inches by 7 inches. That is the size of mine in my room.

Something along the lines of this:

or maybe this:

The first is a portable stereo system with detachable speakers, the second is a portable DVD player.

Shadowman wrote:How exactly would Mass Shifting work? Can you explain how it would look good?

Zoom in. Zoom out.

I want Soundwave to transform into a tricycle. Through mass-shifting, it would work perfectly.

Sentinel Pax wrote:

Tramp wrote: shrinkage during the transformation.

Nobody likes shrinkage.

I just got this mental picture of Soundwave mass shifting while taking a cold shower.

The reason people don't like mass shifting is because, to put it bluntly, it is cheating. The Allspark was acceptable because it was a mysterious ancient artifact. Soundwave, would be just a robot like everybody else. They've already established that small robots turn into small things & large robots turn into large objects, & all spark or no, it will be very out of place to have a big robot turn into a small object.

& you're still missing the point about Bumblebee. Yellow car or not, he is no longer a Bug, the reason for his insect name, so other reasons for the name to fit were made. & the same could be applied for Soundwave.

Oh...another point about Bumblebee: being he was one of the smallest Autobots in G1, he served as their spy, but in the movie he was remade into a standard warrior bot with a busted vocal processor, so he "talked" similar to the old junkions, & dosen't hardly even look like his namesake. comparing that to your standards of what Soundwave "has" to be, Bumblebee failed as Bumblebee, yet he is still one of the main attractions of the first movie & has been generally accepted by all, even with the apparent bash on his G1 alt mode in the used car dealership scene.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:

Tramp wrote: shrinkage during the transformation.

Nobody likes shrinkage.

I just got this mental picture of Soundwave mass shifting while taking a cold shower.

The reason people don't like mass shifting is because, to put it bluntly, it is cheating. The Allspark was acceptable because it was a mysterious ancient artifact. Soundwave, would be just a robot like everybody else. They've already established that small robots turn into small things & large robots turn into large objects, & all spark or no, it will be very out of place to have a big robot turn into a small object.

& you're still missing the point about Bumblebee. Yellow car or not, he is no longer a Bug, the reason for his insect name, so other reasons for the name to fit were made. & the same could be applied for Soundwave.

Oh...another point about Bumblebee: being he was one of the smallest Autobots in G1, he served as their spy, but in the movie he was remade into a standard warrior bot with a busted vocal processor, so he "talked" similar to the old junkions, & dosen't hardly even look like his namesake. comparing that to your standards of what Soundwave "has" to be, Bumblebee failed as Bumblebee, yet he is still one of the main attractions of the first movie & has been generally accepted by all, even with the apparent bash on his G1 alt mode in the used car dealership scene.

Movie Bumblebee is Bumblebee solely because of the "Bee-Otch" thingy hanging on his rear-view mirror.

Maybe Soundwave can have something like "Sony Walkman" tag hanging around his neck. Like Wolverine's name tag.

Speaking of Bumblebee, I think this is the first time I actually liked him as a character. He was still spunky and fun with his radio, but finally had a much needed touch of 'warrior' to him.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:

Tramp wrote: shrinkage during the transformation.

Nobody likes shrinkage.

I just got this mental picture of Soundwave mass shifting while taking a cold shower.

The reason people don't like mass shifting is because, to put it bluntly, it is cheating. The Allspark was acceptable because it was a mysterious ancient artifact. Soundwave, would be just a robot like everybody else. They've already established that small robots turn into small things & large robots turn into large objects, & all spark or no, it will be very out of place to have a big robot turn into a small object.

& you're still missing the point about Bumblebee. Yellow car or not, he is no longer a Bug, the reason for his insect name, so other reasons for the name to fit were made. & the same could be applied for Soundwave.

Oh...another point about Bumblebee: being he was one of the smallest Autobots in G1, he served as their spy, but in the movie he was remade into a standard warrior bot with a busted vocal processor, so he "talked" similar to the old junkions, & dosen't hardly even look like his namesake. comparing that to your standards of what Soundwave "has" to be, Bumblebee failed as Bumblebee, yet he is still one of the main attractions of the first movie & has been generally accepted by all, even with the apparent bash on his G1 alt mode in the used car dealership scene.

No, I am not missing the point about Bumblebee. Regardless of whether or not he started out as a VW Bug, that was no longer an option. VW refuses to be associated with anything dealing with war, which means Hasbro can never use the VW Bug for Bumblebee ever again, and Michael Bay hated Herbie the Love Bug. Bumblebee hasn't been a Bug in years. He wasmn't one in the Classics line, he won't be one in animated. He is still a yellow and black car. and his color scheme and cuteness is really what is importance.

Secondly, Mass conversion is not a cheat if it is used for a specific purpose for a specific transformation. Poor use of size changes is when the that character seems to change size at random points, like Devastatro being the size of a building one moment, and only a little taller than the othe Decepticons the next for no reason. That is cheating. Using it to allow a character to take on a large or smaller alternate mode than he otherwise would, because it fits his character and role, is not cheating. Soundwave growing from a normal sized stereo to a full sized robot is the perfect example of the proper use of mass conversion. Bumblebee being onyl a little taller than a human one moment and almost the size of other full sized Transformers the next is not.