The Energon Pub

Auto Bot wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Sentinel Pax wrote:

Tramp wrote: shrinkage during the transformation.

Nobody likes shrinkage.

I just got this mental picture of Soundwave mass shifting while taking a cold shower.

The reason people don't like mass shifting is because, to put it bluntly, it is cheating. The Allspark was acceptable because it was a mysterious ancient artifact. Soundwave, would be just a robot like everybody else. They've already established that small robots turn into small things & large robots turn into large objects, & all spark or no, it will be very out of place to have a big robot turn into a small object.

& you're still missing the point about Bumblebee. Yellow car or not, he is no longer a Bug, the reason for his insect name, so other reasons for the name to fit were made. & the same could be applied for Soundwave.

Oh...another point about Bumblebee: being he was one of the smallest Autobots in G1, he served as their spy, but in the movie he was remade into a standard warrior bot with a busted vocal processor, so he "talked" similar to the old junkions, & dosen't hardly even look like his namesake. comparing that to your standards of what Soundwave "has" to be, Bumblebee failed as Bumblebee, yet he is still one of the main attractions of the first movie & has been generally accepted by all, even with the apparent bash on his G1 alt mode in the used car dealership scene.

Movie Bumblebee is Bumblebee solely because of the "Bee-Otch" thingy hanging on his rear-view mirror.

Maybe Soundwave can have something like "Sony Walkman" tag hanging around his neck. Like Wolverine's name tag.

There was also Bumblebee's battle mask which looked like a bee's head & the cardoor wings. I think it'd be funny to have a real walkman in the same scene as him with someone saying something like, "Can you believe people actually still use these?"

No, I am not missing the point about Bumblebee. Regardless of whether or not he started out as a VW Bug, that was no longer an option. VW refuses to be associated with anything dealing with war, which means Hasbro can never use the VW Bug for Bumblebee ever again, and Michael Bay hated Herbie the Love Bug. Bumblebee hasn't been a Bug in years. He wasmn't one in the Classics line, he won't be one in animated. He is still a yellow and black car. and his color scheme and cuteness is really what is importance.

Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

Now that explains why Bumblebee have those butterfly wings.

Er... BUTTERFLY wings?!?

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

He was never asscociate with an insect. He got the name because he was cute, small and yellow. The design was based off of a Chrono-Q toy robot. A superdefored car. It wasn't the make of the car that was important, just that it was small, cute, and yellow. Guess what. In the movie he still is. He may not be as short as Jazz, but he is still small, cute and yellow. He is still "Bumblebee". He hasn't changed all that dramatically. A new car mode is not a big change. A change from a tape deck into a huge vehicle is a dramatic change for no purpose and actually hurts his role.

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

He was never asscociate with an insect.

Did I say he was? No. I said his name came from a wordplay on his alt mode. He was a yellow BUG. Without the source for that wordplay, the name is meaningless, so they found other reasons for the name to fit.

Er... BUTTERFLY wings?!?

i'd say just wings in general myself. They do kind look like butterfly wings, though, don't they?

Heh, maybe they should have made him the tooth fairy....

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

He was never asscociate with an insect.

Did I say he was? No. I said his name came from a wordplay on his alt mode. He was a yellow BUG. Without the source for that wordplay, the name is meaningless, so they found other reasons for the name to fit.

Actually, yes, you did, Your exact words were: "The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. "
Those are your words.

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

He was never asscociate with an insect.

Did I say he was? No. I said his name came from a wordplay on his alt mode. He was a yellow BUG. Without the source for that wordplay, the name is meaningless, so they found other reasons for the name to fit.

Actually, yes, you did, Your exact words were: "The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. "
Those are your words.

You're twisting words. The NAME is associated with a bug, not the character.

ALso, I hardly consider bees "Cute." I am absolutely terrified of bees and wasps.

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

He was never asscociate with an insect.

Did I say he was? No. I said his name came from a wordplay on his alt mode. He was a yellow BUG. Without the source for that wordplay, the name is meaningless, so they found other reasons for the name to fit.

Actually, yes, you did, Your exact words were: "The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. "
Those are your words.

Geez, talk about straining at a gnat & swallowing a camel...
Look. He was a VW BUG. A BUG is also an INSECT. He was a YELLOW BUG. A BUMBLEBEE is a YELLOW BUG. What's not to get about that connection? It was a wordplay on his car make. with a camero, he is no longer a BUG, therefore the wordplay on the YELLOW BUG....ie, the BUMBLEBEE, was lost. So they added BUMBLEBEE-like features so his robot would still look like a BUG. Hence the name BUMBLEBEE still fit. Otherwise, he was just a yellow car, just like Sunstreaker, or Sparkplug, or Cliffjumper (G1 had a yellow version), or Detour, or Freewheeler, or Greaser, or Hubcap, or leadfoot, or Oval.....you get the picture. & any of those names would have fit just as well.

Shadowman wrote:
You're twisting words. The NAME is associated with a bug, not the character.

ALso, I hardly consider bees "Cute." I am absolutely terrified of bees and wasps.

And, you guys haven't twisted words in this debate? You haven't taken what you wanted something to mean instead of what the poster intended? Regardless, Bumblebee got his name from being a cute, little yellow car. In the early releases of the G1 toys, they released yellow Cliffjumpers as Bumblebee, and red VW Bugs as Cliffjumper. They also sometines had red VWs as Bumblebee and yellow CJs as Cliffjumper, though this was much less often. The point is that it was his small size, and yellow and black color scheme that was the most important feature and what gave him his name, n ot his make and model of car.

Soundwave was named such because of what his alternate mode was, not its color scheme. He was named Soundwave because he was a music player; a Walkman tape deck. What made that mode more effective for his character and made him a serious threat was his ability to mass convert. This, along with the inoucousness of his alternate mode allowed him to sneak into a facility and transform to full size to wreak havoc as wel as take on the Autobots. The same would hold true for movie Soundwave. Also, you keep on bringing up him being 30 feet tall. Why does he ned to be 30 feet tall? Soundwave should really not need to be more than 20 feet tall tops in standard robot mode. He doesn't need to be larger than Prime.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Wether he could be or not because of VW or herbie, the Bug was lost. The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. Is this getting through? & were it not for the new bee-like robot designs, they might as well have called him Sunstreaker. Because he was not a BUG anymore. So they had to give him other reasons to call him a insect-like name....via a change in robot design.

& When they make Soundwave, & have him not change into a boombox...or mass-shift...or do espionage...they will find other reasons to call him Soundwave. & He will be Soundwave. maybe not your "THE Soundwave"....but he'll be Soundwave nontheless.

He was never asscociate with an insect.

Did I say he was? No. I said his name came from a wordplay on his alt mode. He was a yellow BUG. Without the source for that wordplay, the name is meaningless, so they found other reasons for the name to fit.

Actually, yes, you did, Your exact words were: "The reason for his name being associated with an insect was lost. "
Those are your words.

Geez, talk about straining at a gnat & swallowing a camel...
Look. He was a VW BUG. A BUG is also an INSECT. He was a YELLOW BUG. A BUMBLEBEE is a YELLOW BUG. What's not to get about that connection? It was a wordplay on his car make. with a camero, he is no longer a BUG, therefore the wordplay on the YELLOW BUG....ie, the BUMBLEBEE, was lost. So they added BUMBLEBEE-like features so his robot would still look like a BUG. Hence the name BUMBLEBEE still fit. Otherwise, he was just a yellow car, just like Sunstreaker, or Sparkplug, or Cliffjumper (G1 had a yellow version), or Detour, or Freewheeler, or Greaser, or Hubcap, or leadfoot, or Oval.....you get the picture. & any of those names would have fit just as well.

Nemesis, was Classics Bumblebee a VW Bug? No, and he is G1 Bumblebee, just updated. Therefore, the whole VW Bug argument is moot. The same thing with the movie. It is the color of the car mode, not the make and model that is important. The second thing you are forgetting is that going from one car mode to another is not a major change. It is a very minor one, and not one that affects his character.

Going from a tape deck to a vehicle is a major change and one that completely changes the character irrevocably.

This, along with the inoucousness of his alternate mode allowed him to sneak into a facility and transform to full size to wreak havoc as wel as take on the Autobots.

Oh, but wait, Soundwave can't wreak havoc. He'd blow his cover...he'd STICK OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB....cause, ya know....giant robots tend to draw too much attention.

So how ya gonna fill this plothole in your grand scheme for Soundwave?

Floating tapedecks that shrink draw attendtion? Meh, who knew

Soundwave will be whatever Bay and Co. choose. You'll get nothing and like it.

Plus tramp did u realize that in the original Soundwave was one of the taller cons, so saying that he doesn't need to be over 20 ft doesn't fit in ur perfect vision of soundwave

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

This, along with the inoucousness of his alternate mode allowed him to sneak into a facility and transform to full size to wreak havoc as wel as take on the Autobots.

Oh, but wait, Soundwave can't wreak havoc. He'd blow his cover...he'd STICK OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB....cause, ya know....giant robots tend to draw too much attention.

So how ya gonna fill this plothole in your grand scheme for Soundwave?

Very funny. I have already pointed out that stealth is needed to infiltrate, observe, and comlete the mission. It is not needed usually to extricate after the mission is complete. It is not needed once the objective is complete.

Great Atlas wrote:Plus tramp did u realize that in the original Soundwave was one of the taller cons, so saying that he doesn't need to be over 20 ft doesn't fit in ur perfect vision of soundwave

No one ever said "perfect", did they? His exact height isn't what is important. He doesn't need to be taller than Prime. Prime is 28 Feet tall in the movie. G1 Soundwave was not nearly as tall as G1 Prime. Thus, 15' to 20' is perfectly fine. He doesn't need to be any taller.

Tramp wrote:Nemesis, was Classics Bumblebee a VW Bug? No, and he is G1 Bumblebee, just updated.

Ah, but by your own argument for Soundwave, Classics dosen't count, because he was in no major media...just a toy, & therefore is ignorable, as you said Machine Wars Soundwave was. & also, like Cybertron Soundwave, in the media he was in, the TF club comic, he was not the same character, & therefore is not Bumblebee. So we are back to the bumblebee=bug as soundwave=music player situation.

& while the changes between the various versions of Bumblebee are not as radical as what Soundwave would be, the fact remains that changes were made, & accepted. & besides, who put the name Soundwave on a stealth bomber? Or a Missle carrier/launcher? Hasbro....the same people you claim want him 'done right' as per your instructions in the next movie.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:Nemesis, was Classics Bumblebee a VW Bug? No, and he is G1 Bumblebee, just updated.

Ah, but by your own argument for Soundwave, Classics dosen't count, because he was in no major media...just a toy, & therefore is ignorable, as you said Machine Wars Soundwave was. & also, like Cybertron Soundwave, in the media he was in, the TF club comic, he was not the same character, & therefore is not Bumblebee. So we are back to the bumblebee=bug as soundwave=music player situation.

& while the changes between the various versions of Bumblebee are not as radical as what Soundwave would be, the fact remains that changes were made, & accepted. & besides, who put the name Soundwave on a stealth bomber? Or a Missle carrier/launcher? Hasbro....the same people you claim want him 'done right' as per your instructions in the next movie.

Actually, Classics does have a media tie-in throught eh Collectors club. It is also a major line, not a minor store exclusive one. Secondly, it isn't that chages were made that is important. it is the severity of those changes which affects a character. Going from a VQW to a Camaro is not a severe change. It is relatively minor. Changing a tape deck to a military vehicle is a severe change that crates a completely different character. He ceases to be Soundwave at that point. A minor chage is going from a tape deck to a CD player or DVD player. That does not change the essence of his character. Losing Mass conversion or making him a vehicle does destroy the essence of his character. It makes him someone else completely. He is then no longer Soundwave. The very reason for the name is gone. The very purpose of the character changes. His role changes. Everything about him changes. That is how important it is for Soundwave to be a stereo CD or DVD player and have mass conversion. They are that important to who he is as a character.

Although I've agreed on your opinion of Kup bein' a Fifty's truck, this I disagree with.
Although a military vehicle is not fitting per say, a Radio (as said before) isn't exactly helpful. Remember Frenzy?
Anyhow, although debates over WHAT vehicle is appropriate have more of a foreground.

this idea came last week when reading Soundwave too outdated.
what form can just like old form and a PORTABLE DVD PLAYER for Soundwave alt. form with dvd for Lazerbeak,Ravage,Rumble.
when Lazerbeak came back spy mission and transform in a dvd so
Soundwave can play just in the G1 cartoon you sound and video footage.
And 2nd idea is Blaster and Soundwave are in the 2nd movie.
what form would fit two archrival. Blaster form could HD player because HD ARE RED AND Soundwave form could be Bluy-ray player because Bluy-ray are blue.

If Michael Bay makes a Transformer movie with a bubbling, flamingly homosexual Decepticon manicurist that transforms into a pink moped called 'Soundwave,' it's Soundwave. Plain and simple. No matter what we want, Soundwave will be what the producers want it to be, and he will still be "Soundwave," so now can we quit with the "if it's this, it's not Soundwave"? This is about what we think most represents the past character, but any new character will be Soundwave as well.

This is ultimately just about what we want. Saying 'people want Soundwave to be a boombox, so he should be a boombox' doesn't work as an argument for anything. People here, seemingly a good majority of people here, have stated they don't. And the 'my friend said, my professor said, Bill Clinton said' is just as good as fabrication-- hot air. So we are left with only posters opinions, which are still in talmut over the issue. So, when the evidence just doesn't add up, don't make the statement.

If it looks like a duck, & quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.




Sure looks like Soundwave to me. I know my kids recognized him in a heartbeat. Also with all that monitoring equippment, I bet he can record & playback audio...& he's big & roomy enough to hold several smaller robots. & I bet it'd be real easy for them to make his voice sound like a monotone growl thrown through a vocoder & set to several different pitches to make him sound more robotic.

Hey, I think we've got a duck here!!!

Sherade wrote:Although I've agreed on your opinion of Kup bein' a Fifty's truck, this I disagree with.
Although a military vehicle is not fitting per say, a Radio (as said before) isn't exactly helpful. Remember Frenzy?
Anyhow, although debates over WHAT vehicle is appropriate have more of a foreground.

Frenzy proves how effective that mode is. He was able to get into one of the highest security facilities in the US, Air Force One by being an innocuopus little portable CD player. No vehicle mode TF would have been able to get in there. Frenxzy was the only one to succeed in getting the information the Decepticons sought, as well as upload a virus that sut down the world's communications network. All because he was a stereo. That is effective.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:If it looks like a duck, & quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.




Sure looks like Soundwave to me. I know my kids recognized him in a heartbeat. Also with all that monitoring equippment, I bet he can record & playback audio...& he's big & roomy enough to hold several smaller robots. & I bet it'd be real easy for them to make his voice sound like a monotone growl thrown through a vocoder & set to several different pitches to make him sound more robotic.

Hey, I think we've got a duck here!!!

And he sticks out like a sore thumb in alt mode. He doesn't look like Soundwave. A mode like that would not be able to serve the same function as Soundwave. There goes the "act like a duck" argument too.

Yeah, but he ended up getting found and killed...in an unrelated incident.
Anyway, One nutty boombox was enough. You know bay will probably re name and give him a new head and bam, Soundwave.
BUT, if he was some easily portable or self moving device *yeahright* it might work.

DesalationReborn wrote:If Michael Bay makes a Transformer movie with a bubbling, flamingly homosexual Decepticon manicurist that transforms into a pink moped called 'Soundwave,' it's Soundwave. Plain and simple. No matter what we want, Soundwave will be what the producers want it to be, and he will still be "Soundwave," so now can we quit with the "if it's this, it's not Soundwave"? This is about what we think most represents the past character, but any new character will be Soundwave as well.

This is ultimately just about what we want. Saying 'people want Soundwave to be a boombox, so he should be a boombox' doesn't work as an argument for anything. People here, seemingly a good majority of people here, have stated they don't. And the 'my friend said, my professor said, Bill Clinton said' is just as good as fabrication-- hot air. So we are left with only posters opinions, which are still in talmut over the issue. So, when the evidence just doesn't add up, don't make the statement.

well put. Someday I'll be able to make the fancy words that make coherent thought....but in the meantime, I'll stick to ducks.

No vehicle mode, maybe, but a crafty and skilled minion like Lasebeak or Ravage could very easily get into a secure area and send the information right back to Soundwave. That's about as G1 a set up as there is.

And if you think TimShinn's design doesn't look like a Soundwave, then there's seriously something wrong with you. His design screams Soundwave, whether you like the vehicle or not.