The Energon Pub

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Soundwave is a transforming robot from the planet Cybertron. By the movie standards, he could change into pretty much whatever the hell he wanted to. So to keep him truely faithful, he would need to be a transforming robot. Alt mode is irrelevant. Because none would be his true form...his cybertronian form.

The clothes don't make the man.

*envokes the right of yellow spandex again*

Actually, in the case of Transformers, yes, the "clothes" do make the "man". For most it is their alternate mode appearances, and the look of their robot modes which makes them recognizable. For Soundwave this is definately the case. His alternate mode is what gave him his name in the first place. Ratchet is defined by his ambulance mode. Bumblebee is defined by his yellow car mode. Warpath is defined by his tank mode. These characters are defined by their alternate modes.

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Soundwave is a transforming robot from the planet Cybertron. By the movie standards, he could change into pretty much whatever the hell he wanted to. So to keep him truely faithful, he would need to be a transforming robot. Alt mode is irrelevant. Because none would be his true form...his cybertronian form.

The clothes don't make the man.

*envokes the right of yellow spandex again*

Actually, in the case of Transformers, yes, the "clothes" do make the "man". For most it is their alternate mode appearances, and the look of their robot modes which makes them recognizable. For Soundwave this is definately the case. His alternate mode is what gave him his name in the first place. Ratchet is defined by his ambulance mode. Bumblebee is defined by his yellow car mode. Warpath is defined by his tank mode. These characters are defined by their alternate modes.

Bumblebee was named so because his car mode was a yellow VW Bug. Yellow bug = bumblebee. He is no longer a Bug. The name was made irrelevant. So Now what makes him Bumblebee is the battle mask & "wings" making his robot mode look like a bumblebee. The same thing could be done for Soundwave. He could be given a different reason for having the name: sonic weapons, audio surveilence equippment, a voice that makes him seem like he's in an opera.....& he would still be Soundwave. Without a boombox alt mode. & without Mass-shifting.

Everyone knows Soundwave has to be a shrinking blue cassette-based boombox from the 1980's for T2 to be a success. Now everybody knows Bumblebee is iconic for being that small, cute, but courageous VW bug, and the same for Ironhide as a Southern-talking red van, and Ratchet as a white ambulance, Megatron as a physics-defying Walter P-38 pistol that had to be shot by a nearby Decepticon to be useful, Starscream as a red-white-and-blue skinny pretty-boy, and Optimus as a straightforward red and blue cab-over-engine semitrailer.

If Bay had deviated from the G1 characters at all, this first movie would have been a major flop. People didn't go too see explosions, action, seamless CGI, the sheer thrill of watching giant F-ing robots beat the ever-loving crap out of each other, or to experience a general sense of kidhood glee from a general adaptation of a franchize over 20 years running. They came to see a flawless representation of G1 and all of its characters, even with the cost to the overall realism, production value, plot, or even the audience's own sense of intelligence. Without a by-the-book tribute to a 20-year-old show made to sell toys and brought forth by the excellent effort of underpaid, shoddy Thailand animators and piss-poor Japanese writers, this last movie would have not grossed the $600 million it has grossed today. And this by-the-book characterization, if anything, is what will make this next movie great.If you couldn't tell, that was sarcasm.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:Soundwave is a transforming robot from the planet Cybertron. By the movie standards, he could change into pretty much whatever the hell he wanted to. So to keep him truely faithful, he would need to be a transforming robot. Alt mode is irrelevant. Because none would be his true form...his cybertronian form.

The clothes don't make the man.

*envokes the right of yellow spandex again*

Actually, in the case of Transformers, yes, the "clothes" do make the "man". For most it is their alternate mode appearances, and the look of their robot modes which makes them recognizable. For Soundwave this is definately the case. His alternate mode is what gave him his name in the first place. Ratchet is defined by his ambulance mode. Bumblebee is defined by his yellow car mode. Warpath is defined by his tank mode. These characters are defined by their alternate modes.

Bumblebee was named so because his car mode was a yellow VW Bug. Yellow bug = bumblebee. He is no longer a Bug. The name was made irrelevant. So Now what makes him Bumblebee is the battle mask & "wings" making his robot mode look like a bumblebee. The same thing could be done for Soundwave. He could be given a different reason for having the name: sonic weapons, audio surveilence equippment, a voice that makes him seem like he's in an opera.....& he would still be Soundwave. Without a boombox alt mode. & without Mass-shifting.

Wrong on all fronts. Yes, Bumblebee got his name from being a yellow bug, but the primary thign was the color, not the car. Yellow and black. That is where he got the name. He was small, and cute and yellow. He is still pretty small, still cute, and still yellow, just like a bumblebee. Not much has changes except the make of the car.

Soundwave was named Soundwave because of his alternate mode—a stereo tape deck—something which plays music. It's purpose to play specific kinds of soundwaves. Hence the name. To update that to a mondern design that fits into the movie, you need to use a stereo CD player. That is the modern equivalent to his original and still match his name and the reason for that name, thus retain who the character is. His alternate mode completely defines Soundwave as a character.

DesalationReborn wrote:Everyone knows Soundwave has to be a shrinking blue cassette-based boombox from the 1980's for T2 to be a success. Now everybody knows Bumblebee is iconic for being that small, cute, but courageous VW bug, and the same for Ironhide as a Southern-talking red van, and Ratchet as a white ambulance, Megatron as a physics-defying Walter P-38 pistol that had to be shot by a nearby Decepticon to be useful, Starscream as a red-white-and-blue skinny pretty-boy, and Optimus as a straightforward red and blue cab-over-engine semitrailer.

Be serious. Yes, perpole know Bumblebee was a yellow bug. More importantly that he was cute courageous and yellow. Whether he is a Bug or not isn't as important. He's still a car. He is still yellow, and he is still cute and courageous. They wouldn't have been allowed to use the Bug regardless if Bay liked or hated Herbie the Love Bug.

Megatron has had too many recognizable and rememberd alternate modes to have any single iconic one. He is not defined by it. Having a gun mode is also completely unsuited for a megalomaniacle leader like him anyway because it places him in service to, and need of, another individual. It deosn't make sense for him to be a gun. That is why they have not used a gun mode for him since G1. The US toy gun laws helped too.

Ironhide too is not defined by his alternate mode. He too has had several recognizable incarnations. What makes him Ironhide is this tough demeanor and super tough armor.

Prime is recognized by his appearance. His most iconic form is as a semi, but even there, he has had a number of different makes and models of semi, not just the Cab-Over-Engine model, and every one of them is recognizable as Prime. His Red and blue color scheme is also just as iconic and was kept, as were the windows in his chest and face plate. Nothing iconic about Prime was lost. Nothing iconic about Ratchet was lost, nor Jazz, nor Starscream.

Making Soundwave a vehicle is taking away something iconc and completely defining of him as a character. Not making him some piece of portable stereo equipment, regardless of whether it is an old-fashioned tape deck or a modern CD player, and turning him into a vehicle is making him someone other than Soundwave. You are taking away his most iconic and recognizable feature. And if you do that, he might as well not be Soundwave at all. Name him something else. That is what they did with Blackout, and with Frenzy. Frenzy was going to be Soundwave, and according to people here, Blackout was apparently slated for that name originally too, though all official reports deny that last bit.

Soundwave as a stereo is what makes him Soundwave, and nothing can change that. His having mass conversion is also an iconic part of his character because it put him on equal footing with the other Decepticons as one of Megatron's most trusted leiutenants.

GetterDragun wrote:Watching.

Yes, now I totally agree that your word is law, and that making Soundwave a vehicle in the next movie will utterly destroy the value of the movie, the success of the franchise, and crush the hopes and dreams of millions around the world.

Nobody ever remembered Bumblebee as a VW Bug or Megatron as a gun, and, despite the fact that these characters in the movie were also based upon characters and incarnations from the other 20+ years of Transformers mythos, that this was an adaptation of G1. Jazz has always been a pint-sized gangster-rapper, and Starscream is totally untouched from his canon self and would be the perfect model for when they redo Soundwave for T2.

And no one could ever recognize Soundwave in the sequel for his deep, techno voice, faceplate, blue hue, dark, brooding nature, or his minions. He's only recognizable as long as he is a tapedeck, despite being rather prominently shown as a stealth fighter in the recent Cybertron series. He has to be a 80's-style mass-shifting tapedeck, despite the flaws in plot, realism, and common sense issues it would produce, and he has to sneak around as a pint-sized robot smaller than a Snickers bar to do a spyjob, despite the fact he has minions for that work, or the movie will be totally ruined. He could even be a CD-player, which are still used all over society today, despite the superiority and much greater prevalence of the I-Pod, and the movie could still be saved.

DesalationReborn wrote:Yes, now I totally agree that your word is law, and that making Soundwave a vehicle in the next movie will utterly destroy the value of the movie, the success of the franchise, and crush the hopes and dreams of millions around the world.

Nobody ever remembered Bumblebee as a VW Bug or Megatron as a gun, and, despite the fact that these characters in the movie were also based upon characters and incarnations from the other 20+ years of Transformers mythos, that this was an adaptation of G1. Jazz has always been a pint-sized gangster-rapper, and Starscream is totally untouched from his canon self and would be the perfect model for when they redo Soundwave for T2.

And no one could ever recognize Soundwave in the sequel for his deep, techno voice, faceplate, blue hue, dark, brooding nature, or his minions. He's only recognizable as long as he is a tapedeck, despite being rather prominently shown as a stealth fighter in the recent Cybertron series. He has to be a 80's-style mass-shifting tapedeck, despite the flaws in plot, realism, and common sense issues it would produce, and he has to sneak around as a pint-sized robot smaller than a Snickers bar to do a spyjob, despite the fact he has minions for that work, or the movie will be totally ruined.

DesalationReborn for President!

Seems tough for Soundwave to be equal parts spy & communications interceptor/disrupter when you step away from G1's mass-shifting.

For the Spy part you have Stealth Fighter/Bombers, U2, etc.
For communications you have AWACS, or ground based military comm vehicles.

Personally I like the mo-flava path of low-riding boomcar/pimp mobile.

And regarding the no mass-shift outside of G1, I would say the Allspark certainly did a mass shift from a 4 story cube down to a box small and light enough for skinny Sam to RUN, jump and climb long flights of stairs with. Could that maybe foreshadow some mass-shifting bots in TF-2?

In the end, his basic robot shape, head shape, vocoder voice, and commanding little minions are the essential ingredients to Soundwave. Bay can do whatever he wants to his alt mode as long as I just get those 4 things.

jstation3 wrote:Seems tough for Soundwave to be equal parts spy & communications interceptor/disrupter when you step away from G1's mass-shifting.

For the Spy part you have Stealth Fighter/Bombers, U2, etc.
For communications you have AWACS, or ground based military comm vehicles.

Personally I like the mo-flava path of low-riding boomcar/pimp mobile.

And regarding the no mass-shift outside of G1, I would say the Allspark certainly did a mass shift from a 4 story cube down to a box small and light enough for skinny Sam to RUN, jump and climb long flights of stairs with. Could that maybe foreshadow some mass-shifting bots in TF-2?

Cute on the ""pimp Mobile"
It is tough to do without his iconic form and mass conversion. The stealth fighters/bombers are no good for Comm work, and onyl good for stealth combat. They're stil no good for reconnaisance or infiltration inside a building. The AWACs and military ground vehicles are useless for steath and espionage or infiltration becuase they are extremely limited in where they blend in. All vehicles are like that in this regard.

A stereo mode and mass conversion allows both functions. It blends in anywhere, and is a communications device. It's a radio reciever.

Tramp wrote:A stereo mode and mass conversion allows both functions. It blends in anywhere, and is a communications device. It's a radio reciever.

Yeah so whatcha think? The mass-shifting Allspark give enough forshadowing for some mass-shifting bots? Personally I kind of doubt it, but you never know. Here's to hoping.

jstation3 wrote:

Tramp wrote:A stereo mode and mass conversion allows both functions. It blends in anywhere, and is a communications device. It's a radio reciever.

Yeah so whatcha think? The mass-shifting Allspark give enough forshadowing for some mass-shifting bots? Personally I kind of doubt it, but you never know. Here's to hoping.

Actually, yes, I do think it forshadows it. Given the official reasons provided for why Soundwave was moved to a sequel, as well as Hasbro's insisitance that he have mass conversion and be a CD player, and given that they specifically said that the "no mass shifting" rule was only for the first movie because they could only expect they audience to accept just so much in a single film given the time constraints, yes, I do believe we will see mass conversion in the next movie, and it will be Soundwave who uses it to go from a stereo to a full sized Decepticon.
I fully believe this to be the case.

Nope, you're wrong.

Shadowman wrote:Nope, you're wrong.

I don't think so. But we will see.

jstation3 wrote:Yeah so whatcha think? The mass-shifting Allspark give enough forshadowing for some mass-shifting bots? Personally I kind of doubt it, but you never know. Here's to hoping.

Tramp wrote:Actually, yes, I do think it forshadows it. Given the official reasons provided for why Soundwave was moved to a sequel, as well as Hasbro's insisitance that he have mass conversion and be a CD player, and given that they specifically said that the "no mass shifting" rule was only for the first movie because they could only expect they audience to accept just so much in a single film given the time constraints, yes, I do believe we will see mass conversion in the next movie, and it will be Soundwave who uses it to go from a stereo to a full sized Decepticon.
I fully believe this to be the case.

Schweet! Viva G1!

This is giving me some hope. Especially since a jam-box alt. mode would have zero combat effectiveness, he would always fight in robot mode only and would not need all those crazy fight-sequence transformations. Thus, his transform sequence could be slow and similar to the Allspark, where you see the pieces collapsing in on each other as he shrinks down.

For me, Optimus Prime as a red & blue semi truck voiced by Peter Cullen was the definitive salute to G1 in TF 2007. Maybe, just maybe Soundwave could get the same treatment in TF2.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Nope, you're wrong.

I don't think so. But we will see.

Nope, we won't see. You're wrong. That's all there is to it.

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Nope, you're wrong.

I don't think so. But we will see.

Nope, we won't see. You're wrong. That's all there is to it.

No, Shadowman. I don't believe I am wrong. Nor can you say definitively that I am because they haven't even started on the next movie yet. They don't even have a script, much less concepot designs.

jstation3 wrote:

jstation3 wrote:Yeah so whatcha think? The mass-shifting Allspark give enough forshadowing for some mass-shifting bots? Personally I kind of doubt it, but you never know. Here's to hoping.

Tramp wrote:Actually, yes, I do think it forshadows it. Given the official reasons provided for why Soundwave was moved to a sequel, as well as Hasbro's insisitance that he have mass conversion and be a CD player, and given that they specifically said that the "no mass shifting" rule was only for the first movie because they could only expect they audience to accept just so much in a single film given the time constraints, yes, I do believe we will see mass conversion in the next movie, and it will be Soundwave who uses it to go from a stereo to a full sized Decepticon.
I fully believe this to be the case.

Schweet! Viva G1!

This is giving me some hope. Especially since a jam-box alt. mode would have zero combat effectiveness, he would always fight in robot mode only and would not need all those crazy fight-sequence transformations. Thus, his transform sequence could be slow and similar to the Allspark, where you see the pieces collapsing in on each other as he shrinks down.

For me, Optimus Prime as a red & blue semi truck voiced by Peter Cullen was the definitive salute to G1 in TF 2007. Maybe, just maybe Soundwave could get the same treatment in TF2.

This is my feeling as well, though I would prefer the transformation to be a bit faster, to a more practical speed. A "slow-motion" shot would be cool, but the real-time transformation should not be any slower than other transformation.s even with the size change.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Nope, you're wrong.

I don't think so. But we will see.

Nope, we won't see. You're wrong. That's all there is to it.

No, Shadowman. I don't believe I am wrong. Nor can you say definitively that I am because they haven't even started on the next movie yet. They don't even have a script, much less concepot designs.

No, you're wrong.

I'm really tired. All day me and the other guys tried reasoning with you, we tried cudgeling you, and everything in between.

So, I'm going to be more blunt than a brick. You. Are. Wrong.

Also, how can you say you're right? You haven't seen anything from the next movie. I can say you're wrong all I want, because I believe you are.

Shadowman wrote:No, you're wrong.

I'm really tired. All day me and the other guys tried reasoning with you, we tried cudgeling you, and everything in between.

So, I'm going to be more blunt than a brick. You. Are. Wrong.

Also, how can you say you're right? You haven't seen anything from the next movie. I can say you're wrong all I want, because I believe you are.

Shadowman. Untill we see the final designs, or even better, the trailers and movie, neither of us can say who is right and who is wrong. All we can do is speculate, and give our preferences.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:No, you're wrong.

I'm really tired. All day me and the other guys tried reasoning with you, we tried cudgeling you, and everything in between.

So, I'm going to be more blunt than a brick. You. Are. Wrong.

Also, how can you say you're right? You haven't seen anything from the next movie. I can say you're wrong all I want, because I believe you are.

Shadowman. Untill we see the final designs, or even better, the trailers and movie, neither of us can say who is right and who is wrong. All we can do is speculate, and give our preferences.

And I speculate that you are wrong. End of story.

GetterDragun, lock away, man!

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:No, you're wrong.

I'm really tired. All day me and the other guys tried reasoning with you, we tried cudgeling you, and everything in between.

So, I'm going to be more blunt than a brick. You. Are. Wrong.

Also, how can you say you're right? You haven't seen anything from the next movie. I can say you're wrong all I want, because I believe you are.

Shadowman. Untill we see the final designs, or even better, the trailers and movie, neither of us can say who is right and who is wrong. All we can do is speculate, and give our preferences.

And I speculate that you are wrong. End of story.

GetterDragun, lock away, man!

That is not speculating. That is making a false claim with no proof.

We will see whether or not either of us is right when the movie comes out, if Soundwave is even in the movie.

No, we won't, because you're wrong. You can say you're right, but you're not. That's a false claim with no proof.

I'm tired, and all you do is spout the same stupid rhetoric over and over.

What would you do if Soundwave wasn't exactly as he was in that single incarnation? I'm curious.

See what I'm doing? The same thing, over and over, no actual facts, and basing everything I say on personal opinion?

I'm pretending to be YOU, Trampy.

See, I can do this all day long, it's hilarious. I'm pissing you off in exactly the way you piss everyone else off.

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:No, you're wrong.

I'm really tired. All day me and the other guys tried reasoning with you, we tried cudgeling you, and everything in between.

So, I'm going to be more blunt than a brick. You. Are. Wrong.

Also, how can you say you're right? You haven't seen anything from the next movie. I can say you're wrong all I want, because I believe you are.

Shadowman. Untill we see the final designs, or even better, the trailers and movie, neither of us can say who is right and who is wrong. All we can do is speculate, and give our preferences.

And I speculate that you are wrong. End of story.

GetterDragun, lock away, man!

That is not speculating. That is making a false claim with no proof.

Exactly. The tune sound familiar?

Anyway, I'm tired. Nighty-night!

EDIT: Well, Shadow, you're just too fast for me.

DesalationReborn wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Shadowman wrote:No, you're wrong.

I'm really tired. All day me and the other guys tried reasoning with you, we tried cudgeling you, and everything in between.

So, I'm going to be more blunt than a brick. You. Are. Wrong.

Also, how can you say you're right? You haven't seen anything from the next movie. I can say you're wrong all I want, because I believe you are.

Shadowman. Untill we see the final designs, or even better, the trailers and movie, neither of us can say who is right and who is wrong. All we can do is speculate, and give our preferences.

And I speculate that you are wrong. End of story.

GetterDragun, lock away, man!

That is not speculating. That is making a false claim with no proof.

Exactly. The tune sound familiar?

Anyway, I'm tired. Nighty-night!

See? He got it, and he didn't even read my post.