The Energon Pub

OK the 80% wasn't meant just as War, like WWII, but as War against stuff ore people you don't like.

Like in the Medieval times as they burnt Witches ore as the pilgrims went and killed the native Americans that did not believe in there God.

And as for it's all God's fault, that is not meant as that it's truly God's fault but that the guys that believe in the different versions of him kill each other.


I don't believe in God, but I respect people who do so and won't betray there belief. As long as they don't act stupid and hurt people!

I see this thread is having the effect I wanted!

Ok here's a little I dug up just briefly on Gnosticism, firstly a site:

http://mcdonaldroad.org/sermons/03/0201.htm

And then some quotes from somewhere else:

The serpent in the Garden, and later, Jesus himself, are manifestations of the Holy spirit attempting to free mankind from this material slavery. Gnostics taught that because of this, the material world is abhorrent. Unlike many modern Christian belief systems, gnostic 'mythology' is regarded as metaphorical, a language of symbolism designed to express spiritual concepts that cannot be communicated in ordinary language.

Identifying the Jewish Yahweh with the creator of this evil world, Ophites regarded the serpent with deepest reverence because he had imparted spiritual knowledge -- gnosis -- which the demiurge wanted to keep from his subject people. The serpent became the hero of the drama in Eden. The third-century heresiologist Hippolytus accused Naasenes of every kind of sexual misconduct.

But I'm sure there is a text or Gospel where Jesus actually equates himself with the Serpent...

I'll keep searching here:

http://www.gnosis.org/welcome.html

and elsewhere.

Btw, I'm note bating anyone or treading down their beliefs, I find such things to be an attribute of an ignorant bully.

I am however all up for interesting discussion where we share ideas and beliefs over all things soul and spiritual. Sort of like ret-conn reboot mash up of the whole philosophy forum.

Primus C-00 wrote:Btw, I'm note bating anyone or treading down their beliefs, I find such things to be an attribute of an ignorant bully.

I am however all up for interesting discussion where we share ideas and beliefs over all things soul and spiritual. Sort of like ret-conn reboot mash up of the whole philosophy forum.

surely that depends on the belief, i think treading on beleifs that the world is flat, or that the moon is made of cheese, or the holocaust didn't happen really should be dispelled.

Tammuz wrote:surely that depends on the belief, i think treading on beliefs that the world is flat, or that the moon is made of cheese, or the holocaust didn't happen really should be dispelled.

To a certain extent yes, but sometimes in moments of quiet meditative reflection, gnosis, or whimsy I find the idea of the world being flat (Quintessa was reasonably flat), or the moon being made of cheese quite delightful.

The Holocaust is a much different story, I was shown so much at school and elsewhere that there is no chance of me believing or accepting that never happened.

It's the same with me and religion. I've studied all of the major religions in detail, I can trace monotheism back thousands of years to its source, and I can trace the belief in "gods" or "higher powers" back to simple superstition. There is no evidence, credible or otherwise, that any kind of "higher power" exists. However, there is plenty of credible evidence that disproves that The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, etc are not true. The universe is not 6,000 years old, The Jews were never slaves in Egypt, etc. Given a lack of evidence in support of there being a God and a plethora of evidence showing that what is written in the three major monotheistic holy books to be false, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no God.

My curiousity is peaked. Could you enlighten me about this? I've been under the pressumption that that really happened. I would like to know if it is not true.

Professor Smooth wrote:It's the same with me and religion. I've studied all of the major religions in detail, I can trace monotheism back thousands of years to its source, and I can trace the belief in "gods" or "higher powers" back to simple superstition. There is no evidence, credible or otherwise, that any kind of "higher power" exists. However, there is plenty of credible evidence that disproves that The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, etc are not true. The universe is not 6,000 years old, The Jews were never slaves in Egypt, etc. Given a lack of evidence in support of there being a God and a plethora of evidence showing that what is written in the three major monotheistic holy books to be false, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no God.

But Goddess?

Primus C-00 wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:It's the same with me and religion. I've studied all of the major religions in detail, I can trace monotheism back thousands of years to its source, and I can trace the belief in "gods" or "higher powers" back to simple superstition. There is no evidence, credible or otherwise, that any kind of "higher power" exists. However, there is plenty of credible evidence that disproves that The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, etc are not true. The universe is not 6,000 years old, The Jews were never slaves in Egypt, etc. Given a lack of evidence in support of there being a God and a plethora of evidence showing that what is written in the three major monotheistic holy books to be false, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no God.

But Goddess?

Nah-- a female would be active in the world and actually give a sh*t.

Just like George Carlin said, no woman could or would let things get this bad.

Professor Smooth wrote:Just like George Carlin said, no woman could or would let things get this bad.

*giggle*

Professor Smooth wrote:It's the same with me and religion. I've studied all of the major religions in detail, I can trace monotheism back thousands of years to its source, and I can trace the belief in "gods" or "higher powers" back to simple superstition. There is no evidence, credible or otherwise, that any kind of "higher power" exists. However, there is plenty of credible evidence that disproves that The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, etc are not true. The universe is not 6,000 years old, The Jews were never slaves in Egypt, etc. Given a lack of evidence in support of there being a God and a plethora of evidence showing that what is written in the three major monotheistic holy books to be false, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no God.

My curiousity is peaked. Could you enlighten me about this? I've been under the pressumption that that really happened. I would like to know if it is not true.

ah you've skipped a bit here PS, i don't think that' it's reasonable to conclude that their is no god becuase the abrahamic religeons scriptures lack historicity, their could be a god unlike the one descibed by the abrahamic religeons, no?

DesalationReborn wrote:Nah-- a female would be active in the world and actually give a sh*t.

A bit like these peeps:

http://www.feministsforlife.org/

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/5665/dianic.html

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0801534.html

Tammuz wrote:


ah you've skipped a bit here PS, i don't think that' it's reasonable to conclude that their is no god becuase the abrahamic religeons scriptures lack historicity, their could be a god unlike the one descibed by the abrahamic religeons, no?

You are proposing that there is a "god." That is an extraordinary claim. All extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

While the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, it is not evidence of the lack of absence either.

As an Atheist, I do not believe, 100% that there is no God. That's not what Atheism is about. I believe that there is no evidence in support of "the God hypothesis" and a mountain of evidence suggesting that every religion is wrong. So, until evidence presents itself, I will lump the God of Abraham and any possible "other deities" in with Thor, Ba'al, Satan, and The Boogeyman.

Professor Smooth wrote:

Tammuz wrote:


ah you've skipped a bit here PS, i don't think that' it's reasonable to conclude that their is no god becuase the abrahamic religeons scriptures lack historicity, their could be a god unlike the one descibed by the abrahamic religeons, no?

You are proposing that there is a "god." That is an extraordinary claim. All extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

While the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, it is not evidence of the lack of absence either.

As an Atheist, I do not believe, 100% that there is no God. That's not what Atheism is about. I believe that there is no evidence in support of "the God hypothesis" and a mountain of evidence suggesting that every religion is wrong. So, until evidence presents itself, I will lump the God of Abraham and any possible "other deities" in with Thor, Ba'al, Satan, and The Boogeyman.

that depends on the definition of god(which has t be done first before you can say yay or nay)... what i'm preposing is that christianitry isn't the be-all and end-all of theology, and just becuase their god doesn't exist has no effect on other god's existence.

one must be rigourous in the application of logic.

I'm intrigued.

What is your definition of a God and what evidence of its existence do you have?

One of the reasons I stay away from discussions involving religion is that 1) they tend to get over heated, usually by those who don't believe and 2) I don't enjoy being looked down upon because I do believe in a higher power.

One of the things about believing in God, is that yes, there is no direct evidence of his/her/its existence. You only have you faith to go on, and that's all I really need.

Now don't get me wrong, you're perfectly willing to go off and be athiest, satanist (not lumping them together here), or worship Thor, however you please. I'm not going to be the one to tell you that you are wrong and that you should explain your reasons why. I'm sure you have them, I'm just not interested really. And vice versa, it's kind of insulting to be told "Give me proof God exists", knowing full well that none does, just for the purpose of being looking down upon them because you have some I know-more-than-you approach.

Just keep it in mind that those kinds of questions are loaded questions.

Loki120 wrote:One of the reasons I stay away from discussions involving religion is that 1) they tend to get over heated, usually by those who don't believe and 2) I don't enjoy being looked down upon because I do believe in a higher power.

One of the things about believing in God, is that yes, there is no direct evidence of his/her/its existence. You only have you faith to go on, and that's all I really need.

Now don't get me wrong, you're perfectly willing to go off and be athiest, satanist (not lumping them together here), or worship Thor, however you please. I'm not going to be the one to tell you that you are wrong and that you should explain your reasons why. I'm sure you have them, I'm just not interested really. And vice versa, it's kind of insulting to be told "Give me proof God exists", knowing full well that none does, just for the purpose of being looking down upon them because you have some I know-more-than-you approach.

Just keep it in mind that those kinds of questions are loaded questions.

I don't look down at you!
I don't look down at nobody especially religious people!
I have respect for religions and the people that belive in them, cos I don't have that strong a belive to simply acept something, I always want to know more about it and get people anoied so I just stoped adn am happy now!
I'm no fascist F****er!

Dead Metal wrote:

Loki120 wrote:One of the reasons I stay away from discussions involving religion is that 1) they tend to get over heated, usually by those who don't believe and 2) I don't enjoy being looked down upon because I do believe in a higher power.

One of the things about believing in God, is that yes, there is no direct evidence of his/her/its existence. You only have you faith to go on, and that's all I really need.

Now don't get me wrong, you're perfectly willing to go off and be athiest, satanist (not lumping them together here), or worship Thor, however you please. I'm not going to be the one to tell you that you are wrong and that you should explain your reasons why. I'm sure you have them, I'm just not interested really. And vice versa, it's kind of insulting to be told "Give me proof God exists", knowing full well that none does, just for the purpose of being looking down upon them because you have some I know-more-than-you approach.

Just keep it in mind that those kinds of questions are loaded questions.

I don't look down at you!
I don't look down at nobody especially religious people!
I have respect for religions and the people that belive in them, cos I don't have that strong a belive to simply acept something, I always want to know more about it and get people anoied so I just stoped adn am happy now!
I'm no fascist F****er!

Calm down, tex!
I'm just trying to raise awareness about the topic. Asking people to prove God exists knowing full well that there is none is kind of insulting to those who believe, know what I mean? To me, it's just as insulting as someone calling you a satanist because you don't believe.
If God did exist, how could he/she/it be proved or disproven anyway? As if something like that could possibly be quantified with phyiscal evidence to begin with. Just keep in mind, that virtually every culture and group of people have some creation theory or myth. All those had to come from somewhere, even if the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Hail Satan!



Seriously, I found the blend of Dark Doctrines:

http://apodion.com/vad/

And Laveyan Satanism:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

To quote Arcana:

"Most refreshing."

Asking for proof is actually a perfectly valid request. It shouldn't be done rudely or anything, though.

You have to realise that in the eyes of a non-believer we have here a person* who fully admits that there is no evidence what-so-ever to support their point of view regarding the universe at large and who does not care about this. This comes off as a very basic lack of rationality and, well, rather puts a bit of a damper on any attempt at reasonable discussion. This is of course not the intention, but it does leave one at a bit of a loss for words.

If anyone called me a Satanist or even a devil-worshipper (which admittedly would be basically the same thing when coming from people who'd use it as an insult) because I wasn't religious at all I wouldn't feel insulted. I'd just point out that it would be an incorrect term for describing me.


All this said, I'm still largely undecided on what I really think of people holding religious beliefs. The practice is alien to me and yes, it is something I find very silly indeed, but people aren't their beliefs. They can still be perfectly decent anyway (barring some truly extreme philosophy). I suppose I'm more bothered by how people act and how they justify these actions. Okay, that last one is to a great degree influenced by their beliefs, but that's not the point...


*No one in particular.

Loki120 wrote:
Calm down, tex!
I'm just trying to raise awareness about the topic. Asking people to prove God exists knowing full well that there is none is kind of insulting to those who believe, know what I mean? To me, it's just as insulting as someone calling you a satanist because you don't believe.
If God did exist, how could he/she/it be proved or disproven anyway? As if something like that could possibly be quantified with phyiscal evidence to begin with. Just keep in mind, that virtually every culture and group of people have some creation theory or myth. All those had to come from somewhere, even if the answer is somewhere in the middle.

I din't mean you with F****er, but that I'm non of those fashist f****ers!
So hope you didn't miss understand!

I didn't open this thread to say there is no God cos of them wars, I opened it to let people think about that stuff, I mean religion is soposed to let us behave and treat eachother like brothers but nobody does that!

And that with every civilization believes in something like a god, I think it's becose they imagin/ed that all this beoty and richness of nator must be a present from a allpowerfull being.

I dislike it wen people mock others cos they belive in something, otherwise I wouldn't have a proud Christian (who likes girls to much as that he could become a prist) as a best friend!

Sorry if I offended you with this, I didn't want that to happen.

Kjell wrote:we have here a person* who fully admits that there is no evidence what-so-ever to support their point of view regarding the universe at large and who does not care about this. This comes off as a very basic lack of rationality...

Or. Faith.

Primus C-00 wrote:

Kjell wrote:we have here a person* who fully admits that there is no evidence what-so-ever to support their point of view regarding the universe at large and who does not care about this. This comes off as a very basic lack of rationality...

Or. Faith.

Faith, by definition, lacks reason. It basically states "I believe this because I choose too," a totally fallacious statement where the search for truth is concerned, usually though the excuse, "well, it gives my life meaning." Well, I can say "I believe there's a $1,000,000 diamond buried in my back yard because it gives my life meaning in my search for that diamond," and it still has the same logical validity. Barring personal feelings or not, 'faith' just doesn't hold valid for rational thought.

*And note I do not mean faith by repetition (I drop a ball 99 times and assume the 100th will bounce back up like the rest), for that is in itself logical and not the 'blind faith' we are discussing.

I'll be blunt. I absolutely look down on people who believe in God. I see them as ignorant at best, deranged at worst. The vast majority of people who claim belief in God have never read The Bible, have never studied the teachings of Christ, and have never studied any religions outside of their own. They believe in God in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

They live in a world of fantasy and that is HURTING the human race. Christians who lobby to have Intelligent Design taught in science classrooms, bomb abortion clinics, deny funding to important medical research, and claim that they were directly told, BY GOD, to invade Iraq HURT PEOPLE. I don't think I need to get into what the followers of Islam have been up to.

You want to believe in God? Fine. It's your right. But just as your right to throw a punch stops at the tip of my nose, your right to practice your religion stops when it hurts other people.

I, for one, and sick and tired of people calling "asking for evidence" either "insulting" or "a loaded question." By this logic, anyone who has ever been accused of a crime should be found guilty as the jury can just "take it on faith" that the person committed the crime. By that logic, absolutely anything you do should be permissible, just so long as you believe it's the right thing to do.

Christianity is demonstrably false.
Judaism is demonstrably false.
Islam is demonstrably false.

That takes care of the three religions of "The God of Abraham." That God does not not exist. It would be impossible for him to exist.

Religion has not been responsible for most of the wars in the world, but it has been responsible for making times of peace almost unlivable for people who believe in rationality and evidence.

Besides, you don't really believe in God anyway. Not seriously. If somebody went on TV and told him that God had said to kill a bunch of people (as the God of Abraham does on a fairly regular basis if the Bible is to be taken at face value), you'd probably dismiss him as a nut. If somebody went on TV and said that God told him to tell you to do ANYTHING, you'd think he was a nut.

A man who once experienced Samahdhi once inquired:

"What does an atheist say when they cum?"



I've still yet to hear an answer on that...