The Energon Pub

Professor Smooth wrote:

Neko wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:I'd be interested in hearing examples of Atheists trying to "suppress religion."

It's everywhere. Every political issue in this country has the supporting side and the opposing side (with a few fence sitters sprinkled around).

With the big two of the highlighted issues surrounding the 2008 presdential elections, being Gay rights and Abortion, the oppositon to the issue has someway to do with religion or religious teachings.

Many of the supporters are generally people who want to supress the religious laws so any opposition to the issue would be inarguable and couldn't stand by itself.

I'm not trying to come off as snarky here, but if arguing for people to have the right to choose to marry who they want and decide what to do with their own bodies is suppressing religion in your country, then I'm glad I'm in Japan.

Disagreeing on politics is different from "suppressing religion." Atheists aren't trying to keep people from going to church, celebrating religious holidays, or observing their religion. Most of the more vocal ones simply do not want to have to live their lives (or educate their children) based on religious doctrine, especially when said doctrine contradicts the real world.

Not necessarily Athiests, but there is a growing anti-christian sentiment. There have been cases where Christian students were banned from praying in schools. They weren't forcing anyone else to pray (which I would have opposed), but parents were up in arms because witnessing prayer somehow harmed their childrens delicate sensibilities.
There are cases where students aren't even allowed to wear small crucifix necklaces.

There was also ban on a recent christmas movie from being shown at a public event, I will have to look it up again for more specifics.

Even using the terms Christmas and Easter in public schools has become taboo, but Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and Islamic celebrations are freely expressed, and even done at some public schools. I can understand not doing them, but all of them should be shown the door.

While working at Target, I was expressly told to not tell the customers "Merry Christmas", but it was barely acceptable to say "Happy Holidays". What's funny, is that more often than not, I was "corrected" by many who just returned "Merry Christmas". It felt like some underground code, and the gestapo would come out of the isles if I slipped just once.

I've even read of a case where a family was banned from putting up a Christmas wreath on their door, when the neiborhood organization sent them a letter telling them that they were in violation of the "rules".

And one more thing I have to point out, since you question my validity as a believer in God.

A real athiest would not care if you are a christian, since they beleive there is nothing, so what you beleive or don't believe does not matter to them. You, very much, care about what other people believe, and even go so far as to bash those who do.

Professor Smooth wrote:You know, all this talk about how Christ was all about mercy and forgiveness got me to pull out my copy of the The Bible.

I direct you to Luke 19:27, a quote from Jesus Christ:

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

Such a peaceful and loving man, that Jesus.

For claiming to be so fluent in the bible, you're grasping at straws, don't know what you're talking about, or are purposely misdirecting. Whichever these are, it doesn't paint you in a good light. So which of these are you?

The ENTIRE passage (which you 'accidently' left out I'm sure), is about Jesus' parable about a king (or nobleman). The words were not his, but of the king's.

Professor Smooth wrote:You know, all this talk about how Christ was all about mercy and forgiveness got me to pull out my copy of the The Bible.

I direct you to Luke 19:27, a quote from Jesus Christ:

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

Such a peaceful and loving man, that Jesus.

Tripped out hippy anarchist I'd say! Maybe he meant:

"Lay them before me."

So he could do weird Animal Farm style hippy sexes to them.



Personally I accept Dinobot as an avatar of Raptor Jesus as my Saviour.

Loki120 wrote:A real athiest would not care if you are a christian, since they beleive there is nothing, so what you beleive or don't believe does not matter to them. You, very much, care about what other people believe, and even go so far as to bash those who do.

they start caring when christians start pushing creationism into the school system, when they set up political pressure groups, and when the most powerful man in the world says he invaded a country or two becuase god told him to do it.

also you seem to be lacking the distinction between the two types of atheism;

weak atheism is what you describe, and is summed up by the statment "I don't believe in gods"

hard atheism is best described by " I beleive theire are no gods"


as for jesus on mercy we can look to matthew
10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

i don't recall sodom being shown all that mercy
or luke
12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

I could care less about the whole War on Christmas thing. If somebody says Marry Christmas to me, I say it right back to them. I have never, even once, encountered an Atheist who would be offended by it. I have not seen or heard of an Atheist organization that has complained about stores saying "Merry Christmas" to their customers.

I have noticed that stores are more prone to saying "Happy Holidays" and that is entirely out of fear of offending (and losing the business of) people of other faiths. Most notably, Muslims.

I did have some issue with my tax dollars being spent on Christmas trees and Christmas decorations, but they do look cool, so who's to complain? "Holiday trees?" How stupid did the person who came up with that think people were? Did he really think that Muslims, offended by Christmas Trees, would have no problem with "Holiday Trees?" Insipid.

As to that passage not being the words of Christ, you'll have to show me how it says that that he's quoting somebody else. I can't seem to figure out how you're reading that.

Professor Smooth wrote:I could care less about the whole War on Christmas thing. If somebody says Marry Christmas to me, I say it right back to them. I have never, even once, encountered an Atheist who would be offended by it. I have not seen or heard of an Atheist organization that has complained about stores saying "Merry Christmas" to their customers.

i'm an atheist and i'm offended by christmas music. but that's mainly becuase they start it in october....

Surely you can't hate the Tran Siberian Orchestra. They put one one MEAN concert! I listen to that stuff year round! Hell, I even started a Transformers music video for "An Angel Returned" a few years back. Check out on YouTube sometime.

Professor Smooth wrote:Surely you can't hate the Tran Siberian Orchestra. They put one one MEAN concert! I listen to that stuff year round! Hell, I even started a Transformers music video for "An Angel Returned" a few years back. Check out on YouTube sometime.

nah i like christmas music, just not on endless repeat in mid autumn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnAGf9EsuYo

Just in case anyone's interested.

Haven’t most of the new rules about not wearing crosses in schools and not putting up Christmas things in shops and streets been done to avoid offending those of other cultures? At least, that’s what they are telling people in the UK. I as far as I can see its not atheists doing this, it’s panicking politically-correct politicians (try saying that five times) who are scared of being accused of isolating people of another faith or being racist or being unsympathetic with another culture by allowing the majority of people in this country to show their own.

This is totally ridiculous of course, Iv got Hindu, Jewish and atheist friends who all celebrate Christmas, they don’t get offended at all by any religious symbols and think that banning them from schools and preventing shops from having Christmas and Easter themes is crazy. It seems like most Atheists are not trying to ban anything, they just object to religion being used to try and promote or demote sensitive political issues such as Abortion and Gay marriage, and to the teachings of the bible replacing actual science in schools. My old school used to try and do this....

Well put.

the thing is that (in the UK) islamic full head coverage doesn't seem particularily welcomed(there was a terrorist or something who got past the customs pretending to be be a muslim woman who couldn't reveal her face for religous reasons), as such the PC politicians can't say no your not allowed to cover your face, becuase that's anti-islamic(which due to the war on terror the government can't be seen to be) so they they end pushing for the the removal of all overt religous material.

i have a freind from turkey and she is rather frustrated that in her own government buildings she isn't allowed to wear a headscarf, which is odd considering turkey's religous make up.

From being forced to wear a headscarf to being prohibited from doing so. How strange.

After searching for my TSO video, I watched a couple of other TSO videos, then moved on to some Beethoven and my personal favorite, Handel. It's ironic that my favorite piece of music ever composed is Handel's Messiah.

Who says the devil has the best tunes?

Professor Smooth wrote:From being forced to wear a headscarf to being prohibited from doing so. How strange.

turkey's an odd country but with rather interesting history,the government doesn't wholely control it's military, as such the military take it as their job to ensure turkey doesn't fall into a theocracy. there really are some very odd laws, and political parties can be stripped of their funding if they are deemed to be anti secularist or seperatist.

seems odd to me, but then i'm from a contry who has no seperation of church and state, but just made our state head our church head by kicking the church out...

Professor Smooth wrote:From being forced to wear a headscarf to being prohibited from doing so. How strange.

Most strange.

Okay, hold up a minute, nobody has to believe anything if they do not believe it! But that does not mean God does not exist. lol

Being a Christian myself, I know people who are atheist and may I say, soon they turn into Christians, too. The point is, just have this belief that "the truth is out there"... I mean, we do not know if aliens exist, there are only signs, stories with no evidence provided. So just treat the great being, God, as alien-like. You might not see him, there might be no evidence to back him up, but he may exist.

Kudomus Prime wrote:Okay, hold up a minute, nobody has to believe anything if they do not believe it! But that does not mean God does not exist. lol

Being a Christian myself, I know people who are atheist and may I say, soon they turn into Christians, too. The point is, just have this belief that "the truth is out there"... I mean, we do not know if aliens exist, there are only signs, stories with no evidence provided. So just treat the great being, God, as alien-like. You might not see him, there might be no evidence to back him up, but he may exist.

He also might not. So should we follow laws based one what people say that he said to people who might not have existed? Short answer: No.

Well, it is your right. But I am not saying that you should not take it into considerations. Possibilities make some facts noticeable. Say, you are completely desperate, and you have no way to save yourself. Would you have turn to God? Or would you just follow the course of life and have hope in something that has no credit to have hope in, or would you try out believing in God and strive for survival?

All in all, it is a suggestion.

I *plushed up iconoclastic hippy* Love Jesus to!



http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html

Kudomus Prime wrote:Well, it is your right. But I am not saying that you should not take it into considerations. Possibilities make some facts noticeable. Say, you are completely desperate, and you have no way to save yourself. Would you have turn to God? Or would you just follow the course of life and have hope in something that has no credit to have hope in, or would you try out believing in God and strive for survival?

All in all, it is a suggestion.

if i told you I was god, would you beleive me? on faith alone?

Tammuz wrote:
if i told you I was god, would you beleive me? on faith alone?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

Because I'M GOD.

Professor Smooth wrote:

Tammuz wrote:
if i told you I was god, would you beleive me? on faith alone?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

Because I'M GOD.

you so can't steal my argument! it's a paradigm argument on this forum. like the 7:30 argument!

No, I would not, I would just think you are acting silly at first.

Kudomus Prime wrote:No, I would not, I would just think you are acting silly at first.

why not?