The Energon Pub

Ok, I applied for a job that pays more, and on the application it had the standard question of "Have you ever been convicted of any crimes?" Usually I put no, because, hey, I haven't, but then I got thrown for a loop when I read the next part: "Traffic and parking tickets will be considered as criminal convictions". Now, I may be just a pre law student, but I'm pretty sure the few tickets I've gotten over the years shouldn't make me a "dangerous criminal". I can see if it was for a driving job, but still....

Well, parking practices that go against what the city lays out as parking laws would constitute breaking the law and thus would constitute a criminal act, as would breaking the speed limit. Heck, it's a crime to jay-walk, though I've only seen one city really anal enough to enforce that one.

I'd call them non-serious crimes personally.

Mkall wrote:Well, parking practices that go against what the city lays out as parking laws would constitute breaking the law and thus would constitute a criminal act, as would breaking the speed limit. Heck, it's a crime to jay-walk, though I've only seen one city really anal enough to enforce that one.

I'd call them non-serious crimes personally.

Serious or not, you can only either break the law or obey it. You can't be only slightly committing a crime, just like you can't be a little bit pregnant. If it's against a law of some sort, it's a crime. Unless it's the laws of physics, then it's a miracle. God's double standard? You decide.

At what point did speeding tickets be considered the same as a domestic violence or other real crime charges? I know some states are expanding on what is considered a crime in order to enforce new gun laws or what not, but with all of the real criminals, like drug dealers, and the like out there, why are companies so worried about hiring someone who speeds?

It's a shame the powers that be have decided to criminalize a generation of motorists for relatively minor offences. Here in the UK especially, I would only have to get caught 5mph over the limit to earn myself a permanent criminal record. Which seems rather harsh by my eyes.

Sadly, things will only get stricter. Eventually we won't be able to drive around without a government sanctioned inspector in our passenger seat.

Decepticon Spike wrote:At what point did speeding tickets be considered the same as a domestic violence or other real crime charges? I know some states are expanding on what is considered a crime in order to enforce new gun laws or what not, but with all of the real criminals, like drug dealers, and the like out there, why are companies so worried about hiring someone who speeds?

For one, depends on what sort of job you're applying for. Certainly any job that requires driving a company vehicle is going to want a spic-span driving record.

For two, companies want employees that will follow their rules and policies. Even "minor" offenses like speeding and parking tickets show that a potential employee has problems with following rules and policies.

Of course, personally, I don't consider violating traffic rules "minor" or "non-serious" since it puts other people in danger. Even something small like people not using their turn signal has put in me in danger before. I have nearly gotten hit a few times while walking because I had the green light and assumed that no one was turning since I didn't see anyone with their signal on, only to have a car either go whizzing by me by just a few inches as I crossed the street or just barely manage to stop for me because someone was turning after all but didn't use a signal.

But obviously my mileage varies on the subject of violating traffic laws not being a big deal. :/

Decepticon Spike wrote:At what point did speeding tickets be considered the same as a domestic violence or other real crime charges? I know some states are expanding on what is considered a crime in order to enforce new gun laws or what not, but with all of the real criminals, like drug dealers, and the like out there, why are companies so worried about hiring someone who speeds?

That's why there are misdemeanors and felonies. It's on a job application in the spirit of disclosure as you cannot be denied employment due to criminal record alone. When you lie about it just to make yourself look good, that's when they don't hire you. In fact, some companies are offered tax breaks and incentives for hiring people with records.

God Magnus wrote:It's on a job application in the spirit of disclosure as you cannot be denied employment due to criminal record alone.

You are correct.
Some years back there was a guy that I worked with for 4 months as a temp, when they offered him the job they did a background check and saw that he had a felony.
Because he lied to the temp agency he was fired on the spot.

Everyone is overlooking a key point.

When it comes to traffic laws, there really are no laws. The majority of infractions (speeding, parking, broken tail light, etc.) are ordinance violations. This means that if you are speeding on a freeway near Nowhere, USA, the offense is against Nowhere, USA, despite the freeway being a state or federal highway.

The difference is the jurisdiction. Felonies and Misdemeanor's are usually against the state that they are committed in.

Next time you get a ticket, try to find where it says "Your Name vs. Your State". If you haven't figured it out, it doesn't.

So no, traffic offenses are not, and should not be classified as crimes on a job application. The exception to that would be hit and run or DUI, as both of those have state misdemeanor's or felonies attached to them.

Tekka wrote:It's a shame the powers that be have decided to criminalize a generation of motorists for relatively minor offences. Here in the UK especially, I would only have to get caught 5mph over the limit to earn myself a permanent criminal record. Which seems rather harsh by my eyes.

Sadly, things will only get stricter. Eventually we won't be able to drive around without a government sanctioned inspector in our passenger seat.

5 MPH to get a permanent record? As in it never comes off at all?

Jeysie wrote:

Decepticon Spike wrote:At what point did speeding tickets be considered the same as a domestic violence or other real crime charges? I know some states are expanding on what is considered a crime in order to enforce new gun laws or what not, but with all of the real criminals, like drug dealers, and the like out there, why are companies so worried about hiring someone who speeds?

For one, depends on what sort of job you're applying for. Certainly any job that requires driving a company vehicle is going to want a spic-span driving record.

For two, companies want employees that will follow their rules and policies. Even "minor" offenses like speeding and parking tickets show that a potential employee has problems with following rules and policies.

Of course, personally, I don't consider violating traffic rules "minor" or "non-serious" since it puts other people in danger. Even something small like people not using their turn signal has put in me in danger before. I have nearly gotten hit a few times while walking because I had the green light and assumed that no one was turning since I didn't see anyone with their signal on, only to have a car either go whizzing by me by just a few inches as I crossed the street or just barely manage to stop for me because someone was turning after all but didn't use a signal.

But obviously my mileage varies on the subject of violating traffic laws not being a big deal. :/

It's for a computer tech, so it may involved driving. I'm not sure.
I told my old Law professor about it today, and he nearly had a heart attack over the "stupidity of comparing speeders with thugs" or somethign like that.

God Magnus wrote:

Decepticon Spike wrote:At what point did speeding tickets be considered the same as a domestic violence or other real crime charges? I know some states are expanding on what is considered a crime in order to enforce new gun laws or what not, but with all of the real criminals, like drug dealers, and the like out there, why are companies so worried about hiring someone who speeds?

That's why there are misdemeanors and felonies. It's on a job application in the spirit of disclosure as you cannot be denied employment due to criminal record alone. When you lie about it just to make yourself look good, that's when they don't hire you. In fact, some companies are offered tax breaks and incentives for hiring people with records.

I know that, I'm just shocked that it said to include traffic tickets. I've never seen that before.

Decepticon Spike wrote:It's for a computer tech, so it may involved driving. I'm not sure.

Could be. I'm friends with a guy who works for IBM as a techie and he has a company van he drives to calls.

Decepticon Spike wrote:I told my old Law professor about it today, and he nearly had a heart attack over the "stupidity of comparing speeders with thugs" or somethign like that.

Why? Both thugs and speeders put other people's lives/property in danger. Speeding reduces reaction times and braking distances and thus makes it more likely you're going to have an accident/hurt somebody. The only difference is that a thug ends up hurting something deliberately, while a speeder would end up doing it "accidentally".

So, no, I don't consider traffic law penaties to be "harsh". If you're not responsible enough to follow the safety laws while driving around a few tons of metal moving at high speeds, you should be taking the bus.

(Granted, my view is probably a bit skewed by the fact that people in Massachusetts tend to drive like Stunticons. When a friend of mine came up from North Carolina for a visit, he concluded that the drivers up here all have a "collective death wish". It's dangerous being a pedestrian around here! )

If you ask me, speeding is't criminal, speed limits are.
The only place they should be needed are school zones ad the obvious stop at crosswalks. Other than that, I want to go fast as I can whenever I can for as long as I can.

Honestly, I hate most road laws.
But I really shouldn't be setting that example.
Anyhoo, no. It should not be criminal. But alas, the Government has it's reasons.....
Some people can't drive. Or the cars can't go, either way, if you're ill equipped, you deserve no less than speed limits.
I suppose some areas can't handle it, but it won't discourage me.
Seriously, have you ever gone past 100? Nothing even seems real, it's like everythings frozen and all you have is the road ahead and a steering wheel. It's some kind of freedom, like you are invincible...

Uh.....I didn't say that....
Anyhoo, you can see why I'm probably gonna be in debt because of speeding tickets.....

Jeep! wrote:

Mkall wrote:Well, parking practices that go against what the city lays out as parking laws would constitute breaking the law and thus would constitute a criminal act, as would breaking the speed limit. Heck, it's a crime to jay-walk, though I've only seen one city really anal enough to enforce that one.

I'd call them non-serious crimes personally.

Serious or not, you can only either break the law or obey it. You can't be only slightly committing a crime, just like you can't be a little bit pregnant. If it's against a law of some sort, it's a crime. Unless it's the laws of physics, then it's a miracle. God's double standard? You decide.

Not quite. If law was based on that, then everyone would end up in jail at some point. You know why not wearing a seatbelt gets you a $60 fine, and being a serial killer gets you life without parole? That's the difference between Misdemeanor and Felony.

Uh...but I'm sure other people could explain this better. I did a lot of sleeping in law class.

Sherade wrote:If you ask me, speeding is't criminal, speed limits are.
The only place they should be needed are school zones ad the obvious stop at crosswalks. Other than that, I want to go fast as I can whenever I can for as long as I can.

Man, I wish I had no regard for human safety like you!

Oh, wait...no, I don't, I just remembered I enjoy living. And being eligible for insurance. And being able to talk to a cop without having to explain why the last cop who pulled me over also took my license along with him.

Maybe you guys haven't had jobs where you drive ,
but I've only had one job I drove for fire me for
a license infraction, and it was a bad one. I turned around,
fixed the problem and got another job where, again, I was
driving a company vehicle.
The idea of listing your parking tickets and such for a job is
flat out dumb, and I wouldn't waste my time working for a company that was so hard-edged.

Shadowman wrote:And being eligible for insurance. And being able to talk to a cop without having to explain why the last cop who pulled me over also took my license along with him.

I have distaste for a small part of insurance too.
It's awesome that I can be covered for other's mistakes, and sometimes get bonuses for not doing it on my own, which I think the payments are worth, but some companies will cover you even if it's your fault, and I think that's kinda lame. If I make a mistake, I should be cleaning it up. I have nothing against paying for it in full. Now,I'll say otherwise on the receiving end, but it'll teach me a lesson or two. Now, this is car insurance. As for life insurance, I can say I'd probably have a different idea of that.
As for cops that isn't my problem. When they aren't working anyway, the only thing I have to worry about is the handful (in retrospect to the numbers around here...which is still pretty small) that are good officers and truly have an interest in the safety of others.

Hey....I wonder if there will be any pursuit units with openings in a few years. I could live my love of speed, get into a chase, and save some people. Plus it won't get me tossed around the legal system....
Of course..I doubt it'll happen..oh well, dreaming is fun.

Well, I'm certainly glad I don't live where Sherade drives.

Honestly, when it omes to car laws and what not, I can't pick a side. It's a tough choice between safety and freedom, although I'm a little whack and pick freedom more or less. I really can't decide which I like. It's like a scale I gotta even out, feel me?

I swear....I'm not sure if I was born in the 90's......
I'm like from the hippie days..

Well, the problem with things like disobeying traffic laws is that you endanger others. Now, if you want to do things that only put yourself in danger, that's your call.

Jeysie wrote:Well, the problem with things like disobeying traffic laws is that you endanger others. Now, if you want to do things that only put yourself in danger, that's your call.

I suppose I could just go to a race couse...which does detract from rthe fun of streets that can go anywhere, but I suppose would be sensible....

All I know is if someone crashes into me at over a 100mph and my legs still work....Theres sure as Hell won't when I'm finished with em.

Just be glad you don't live in Virginia and get a ticket there. Those Civil Remedial Fees will seriously cost thousands.

Jeysie wrote:

Decepticon Spike wrote:It's for a computer tech, so it may involved driving. I'm not sure.

Could be. I'm friends with a guy who works for IBM as a techie and he has a company van he drives to calls.

Decepticon Spike wrote:I told my old Law professor about it today, and he nearly had a heart attack over the "stupidity of comparing speeders with thugs" or somethign like that.

Why? Both thugs and speeders put other people's lives/property in danger. Speeding reduces reaction times and braking distances and thus makes it more likely you're going to have an accident/hurt somebody. The only difference is that a thug ends up hurting something deliberately, while a speeder would end up doing it "accidentally".

So, no, I don't consider traffic law penaties to be "harsh". If you're not responsible enough to follow the safety laws while driving around a few tons of metal moving at high speeds, you should be taking the bus.

(Granted, my view is probably a bit skewed by the fact that people in Massachusetts tend to drive like Stunticons. When a friend of mine came up from North Carolina for a visit, he concluded that the drivers up here all have a "collective death wish". It's dangerous being a pedestrian around here! )

I get what you're saying. People who break the driving rules can be as dangerous as the guy who decides to rob someone. But I think the point that my professor was making is that it's stupid to put the 2 in the same lot. Unless someone is killed from speeding, which can and does happen, we don't put people in prison for going fast. I can just see it now:
Prisoner 1: I killed 6 people with my bare hands. What are you in for?
Prisoner 2: I went 70 in a 65 zone.

Halo wrote:Just be glad you don't live in Virginia and get a ticket there. Those Civil Remedial Fees will seriously cost thousands.

What's a Civil Remedial Fee?