The Energon Pub

everybody, for the love of primus, just

everybody who is argueing that TFs cant reproduce sexy, STOP!
this thread assumes that they can, and is to theorise how!
Not IF they can or can not, but how they could if they can!
If you want to argue that they cant, please leave and start up another thread to debate it. Coming to this thread and telling us ' it isnt possible', 'it isnt right' wont change our minds because thats not what we are discussing!

Those who are here to discuss who are here to debate how they can, STOP! we are here to discuss, theorise, NOT to argue with people who do not share our opinion about whether they can or can not!

As i have previosly stated, and have been quoted, this thread is about how they could sexually reproduce, not if they can or cannot!

And Tramp, leave the disbelievers to disbelieve, dont get drawn in, or draw others in, please!

If they actually do it...

Do you think the friction can scrape off some of the internal rust-proofing?

Synthetic Xenobiology time....

Ok, after watching all the TF series possible in my life... it is quite concievable that these mechanoids are indeed...more than meets the eye. And after reading Engines of Creation, i never could find a good argument against nanites being involved with these things.

I think there are multiple routes to reproduction where Transformers are concerned. Build or breed baby...

And why reproduce? Well, the best way to get a friendly AI, some say, is to give it a human view of the world.

Of course, i personally think Transformers just plain reek of having been something else before they adopted mechanoid forms. My bet's on silicon-based life - living crystals. And on that note, i will point you to the shiny crystal ball thing they showed us in Beast Machines.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Auto Bot wrote:If they actually do it...

Do you think the friction can scrape off some of the internal rust-proofing?

ROFLMAO

Probably not.

VecPrime wrote:Synthetic Xenobiology time....

Ok, after watching all the TF series possible in my life... it is quite concievable that these mechanoids are indeed...more than meets the eye. And after reading Engines of Creation, i never could find a good argument against nanites being involved with these things.

I think there are multiple routes to reproduction where Transformers are concerned. Build or breed baby...

And why reproduce? Well, the best way to get a friendly AI, some say, is to give it a human view of the world.

Of course, i personally think Transformers just plain reek of having been something else before they adopted mechanoid forms. My bet's on silicon-based life - living crystals. And on that note, i will point you to the shiny crystal ball thing they showed us in Beast Machines.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Well said. I'm not sure about them evolving from Living cryrstals, because of their already established origins, but otherwise very well thought out, and very accurate.

Well, yes, i quite well know of the origin story, but unfortunately that has been retconned many times.... As it stands now, they are all pretty much parts of Primus.

Their civilization begins almost uncomfortably close to the beginning of the universe, as well. That also factors into my ideas.

VecPrime wrote:Well, yes, i quite well know of the origin story, but unfortunately that has been retconned many times.... As it stands now, they are all pretty much parts of Primus.

Their civilization begins almost uncomfortably close to the beginning of the universe, as well. That also factors into my ideas.

Actually, their civilization doesn't begin for quite a long time after. Primus first had to format his own body into Cybertron. That cetainly didn't take place over night. On top of that, his war with Unicron didn't begin right at the beginning of thime either. It began once Unicron decided to destroy all of creation. Then they battled for millenia upon millenia before they took on their current planetary forms. More than likely, the Original 13 were created a few humndred million years ago. Possibly aout the same time that organic life first evolved on earth.

Hi, I'd like to point out something important that Starscream in Armada mentioned. One of the later episodes prior to his defection from Megatron, he says, in essence that ever since he left the Iacon chamber he'd been in the Decpeticon army.

This got me thinking back to Beast Machines and the scene with Black Arachina and Silverbolt, and what Rhinox said in Beast Wars. A spark must come online, "When a spark comes on line there is great joy." which is the same sort of thing humans say when a baby is born. My thought is that, much like Cheetor gained new bodies over time, that the spark must mature in a container growing and probably can speak to his or her parents, at some stage probably it decides which gender its to be, and then is placed in it's first body. This is changed over time as the child grows, either via protoforms, or through the same process that Cheetor was transmetalized. We saw that he grew up and matured gaining older bodies. My thought is that the body of the child transformer gains new ones, either by the body changing through a process, or by some function that allows it to grow some what. What that is yet, I don't know, but the way the gentic coding is transfered, I think, is through the sharing of biocircuts which probably flow from male and females into eachother, mixing and creating the data in the new spark. Once the spark is formed it's placed in a contain and held probably at this Iocon chamber where it can be watched over. This probably where the spark matures till it's ready for its first body.

At lest that's how I see it happening. I don't like the idea of eggs or nanites. There is no way that a transfomer can create an egg in the same sense that a woman or a bird can. There's no room to grow inside the bodies. Considering the dense amouth of circutry that's needed. If there is anything it's a smaller chamber in the female (or male) that houses the infant spark till it's placed at the chamber. And nanites have been used over and over so I've become rather sick of them. Seriously has anyone not read in recent years one story with Scifi in it that Does not have some form of nanite technology. And I know that TF likes to borrow from Starwars and Star Trek, but both have used the tech to peices, and I think it's time for something new and fresh that the Transformers can call their own.

I didn't go through all 9 pages of this thread, but I'm pretty sure that TF (re)production goes something like this:

1. Biomorphic reproduction: As seen in the G2 comics. One transformer temporarily becomes liquid or partially liquid, from it 4 or 5 new transformers get spawned.

2. Spark splitting: A piece of a spark gets "chipped" off and gets inserted into a blank protoform. The protoform then starts to shape itself like a transformer that got spawned by biomorphic reproduction. This is hinted at in DW G1.

3. The Matrix or Matrix flame zaps a newly created transformer or protoform. Mostly taken from the Marvel US/UK comics, with a bit of beastwars thrown in.

4. Vector Sigma zaps newly created transformers or protoforms. Pretty much the same as the matrix did in the comics. Taken from the G1 cartoon.

5. Cloning: More commen then most people would suspect. It appears that sparks can be cloned, it's how the Autobot and Decepticon clones came to be.

That explains why there are 6 seekers.

5. Cloning: More commen then most people would suspect. It appears that sparks can be cloned, it's how the Autobot and Decepticon clones came to be.

Stormwolf, do you mean the episode "A Prime Problem" with the clones of Optimus and Starscream?

Night Stryker, while the idea of self-replicating nanites is not unique to TransFormers, nor an entirely new concept, it is logical. MtMtE refers to the system as regenrative circuitry. It's what allows TransFormers to heal from injury. A variant of this same system would be perfect for use in reproduction.
As for growth of the child to adulthodd. I would hazard to say, it takes a long time, much longer than for Humans. Based upon what we know from the comics and cartoons, as well as MtMtE, The Spark is a part of the TransFormer, inseperable form the body unless forceably extracted and locked in a containment vessel, or the Cybertronian is permanently killed. When a protoform is imbued with a spark, The spark comes directly from the Matrix or is created spontaneously through the use of an energy wave-length similar to that of the Matrix and a concentrated burst of energon, which requires a lot of energy to accomplish. These methods create fully grown adult-bodied TransFormers. For a "naturally born" TransFormer, They would be born as a tiny child, probably no larger than an adult human, possibly smaller, and grow in size and proportion, not by changing bosdies, but the body actually growing and developing. Their regenerative circuitry would likely play a huge part in this, becaus that is what it basically does, it creates new "tissue"—new circuitry, new structure, new armor, etc. continuously to repair damage and such, just like our own cells replicate to heal damage and to replace old, worn-out cells, as well as allow us to grow to adulthood. As for their appearance, There are two possibilities here. First possibility is they might not develop the ability to transform until near adolesence (Wheelie is about the equivalent of a 12 year-old) and reformat themselves into their first alternate form, or they are born with the capability, and as they grow, take on larger, yet similar alternate forms as they grow and mature. Either is possible considering that the image of the Dinoforce's children from the Victory manga (along with Deathsaurus's wife, Esmeryl), seems to show them with with alternate mode features, and they're relatively young and small too. Unfortunately, they're not too detailed, so it's hard to tell. Here's the image:

The children are in the background.

Stormwolf wrote:I didn't go through all 9 pages of this thread, but I'm pretty sure that TF (re)production goes something like this:

1. Biomorphic reproduction: As seen in the G2 comics. One transformer temporarily becomes liquid or partially liquid, from it 4 or 5 new transformers get spawned.

2. Spark splitting: A piece of a spark gets "chipped" off and gets inserted into a blank protoform. The protoform then starts to shape itself like a transformer that got spawned by biomorphic reproduction. This is hinted at in DW G1.

3. The Matrix or Matrix flame zaps a newly created transformer or protoform. Mostly taken from the Marvel US/UK comics, with a bit of beastwars thrown in.

4. Vector Sigma zaps newly created transformers or protoforms. Pretty much the same as the matrix did in the comics. Taken from the G1 cartoon.

5. Cloning: More commen then most people would suspect. It appears that sparks can be cloned, it's how the Autobot and Decepticon clones came to be.

Unfortunately, all but one of your theories requires Protoforms, and they have all been discussed in canon as how most TransFormers are created in canon. They aren't theories, and are all covered in TF: More than Meets the Eye #8. And the only one that doesn't assumes that Tansformers don't have genders, which most contnuities, have shown that they do. Everything you have given is straight from Marvel which did not have female TransFormers at all. Most continuities do have females, which would be pointless if they were asexual.

Night Striker wrote:

5. Cloning: More commen then most people would suspect. It appears that sparks can be cloned, it's how the Autobot and Decepticon clones came to be.

Stormwolf, do you mean the episode "A Prime Problem" with the clones of Optimus and Starscream?

No, I think he is referring to Ocunce and Winspan, and Cloudraker and Fastlane.

The Seekers are not true clones. While their Earth modes might be identicle, based upon War Within, their Cybertronian forms were not. They were similar, but not identicle. Their transformations as well were each unique. They weren't clones of one another. The only one who does have a clone "brother" is Starscream, whose "brother" is Sunstorm. Sunstorm was cloned from Starscream by Shockwave.

Night Stryker, while the idea of self-replicating nanites is not unique to TransFormers, nor an entirely new concept, it is logical. MtMtE refers to the system as regenrative circuitry. It's what allows TransFormers to heal from injury. A variant of this same system would be perfect for use in reproduction.

Sorry to disagree with you Tramp, but Regenertive circuitry is actually designed and means to heal interal injuries. They act as amplifiers to the TFs computersystem, and excute a program that would repair damage of a certain level. Much like a computer killing a virus, or repairing a bad boot. These circuits do not help in reproduction as that's not what they're used for. To regenerated means to make anew, to repair, not to reproduce which means to create from scrach a new life.

As for growth of the child to adulthodd. I would hazard to say, it takes a long time, much longer than for Humans. Based upon what we know from the comics and cartoons, as well as MtMtE, The Spark is a part of the TransFormer, inseperable form the body unless forceably extracted and locked in a containment vessel, or the Cybertronian is permanently killed.

Not quiet right regarding the spark. We don't know how long it takes for a spark to mature, but I wouldn't think it's that long since Cheetor's the equivalent to a teenager and they were trapped there for three or four years. He grew to be like an 18 yearold in that time. Beast Machines made him into like a 20 year old. Also, from Beast Wars we've seen that a spark can survive without containment, as seen when Primal is holding Primes spark in his hand. This indicates to me that the spark can and does survive outside the container of a transformer.

When a protoform is imbued with a spark, The spark comes directly from the Matrix or is created spontaneously through the use of an energy wave-length similar to that of the Matrix and a concentrated burst of energon, which requires a lot of energy to accomplish. These methods create fully grown adult-bodied TransFormers. For a "naturally born" TransFormer, They would be born as a tiny child, probably no larger than an adult human, possibly smaller, and grow in size and proportion, not by changing bosdies, but the body actually growing and developing.

I point this out to you very quickly. The cassettes and Maximals and Predacons were roughly the size of humans. They won't be growning any bigger, that's their final form. So saying that a child TF starts at that size would be a large error becuase theres enough proof to show that they would not start out at that size. You equate Transformers to humans, you can't do that. Transformers and Humans are of two very different classes. Transformers have no internal skeltal structure, as shown in MtMtE, Ulitmate guide, and various other places. Their outerbodies are basically the exoskelleton like an insects. Our muscles are what keep our internal organs in place, it's their outer bodies that do this for the Transformers. If they were to have the interal structure then they couldn't transform the way they do and fold in their mass to the size that they become. The interal structure grows via upgrades, and their own maturnation, not like bones that expand.

Their regenerative circuitry would likely play a huge part in this, becaus that is what it basically does, it creates new "tissue"—new circuitry, new structure, new armor, etc. continuously to repair damage and such, just like our own cells replicate to heal damage and to replace old, worn-out cells, as well as allow us to grow to adulthood.

Again, the regenerative circuitry is a repair system, it repairs damage, it doesn't create new tissue the way a humans would. And it can only repair so much as they still need doctors to fix them. For larger damage they need the CR Chamber and the drones to act as instruments in their repairs. This is evident in numerous episodes of both Beast Wars and G1.

As for their appearance, There are two possibilities here. First possibility is they might not develop the ability to transform until near adolesence (Wheelie is about the equivalent of a 12 year-old) and reformat themselves into their first alternate form, or they are born with the capability, and as they grow, take on larger, yet similar alternate forms as they grow and mature. Either is possible considering that the image of the Dinoforce's children from the Victory manga (along with Deathsaurus's wife, Esmeryl), seems to show them with with alternate mode features, and they're relatively young and small too.

The first one doesn't seem to make sense since transformations were later ingraded into transformers via the G1 story, and in the comics it's from conception that they can actually transform. So ruleling out the first one, the seond one makes the most sense. However I feel that there would have to be a upgrade, much like how Cheetor was upgraded via a new body or a newer design to the older form. I point to the fact that Starscream in Armada mentions a Iacon Chamber where his spark resided, this makes me think that the whole issue with the bodies occures when the spark is matured and they're given their first form which is probably upgraded as the bot matures, and eventually the final form is issued which is then upgraded with new features much like the cast of Beast wars was, only in different ways.

No, I think he is referring to Ocunce and Winspan, and Cloudraker and Fastlane.

The reason I mention that episode is that the first time we see clones, one of Starscream and one of Prime made by Megatron, but they were mostly large puppets. The clones probably are those, but then that brings up questions in my mind about how Megatron the second cloned Dinobot...but that's for a differnt thread.

Tramp wrote:Night Stryker, while the idea of self-replicating nanites is not unique to TransFormers, nor an entirely new concept, it is logical. MtMtE refers to the system as regenrative circuitry. It's what allows TransFormers to heal from injury. A variant of this same system would be perfect for use in reproduction.
As for growth of the child to adulthodd. I would hazard to say, it takes a long time, much longer than for Humans. Based upon what we know from the comics and cartoons, as well as MtMtE, The Spark is a part of the TransFormer, inseperable form the body unless forceably extracted and locked in a containment vessel, or the Cybertronian is permanently killed. When a protoform is imbued with a spark, The spark comes directly from the Matrix or is created spontaneously through the use of an energy wave-length similar to that of the Matrix and a concentrated burst of energon, which requires a lot of energy to accomplish. These methods create fully grown adult-bodied TransFormers. For a "naturally born" TransFormer, They would be born as a tiny child, probably no larger than an adult human, possibly smaller, and grow in size and proportion, not by changing bosdies, but the body actually growing and developing. Their regenerative circuitry would likely play a huge part in this, becaus that is what it basically does, it creates new "tissue"—new circuitry, new structure, new armor, etc. continuously to repair damage and such, just like our own cells replicate to heal damage and to replace old, worn-out cells, as well as allow us to grow to adulthood. As for their appearance, There are two possibilities here. First possibility is they might not develop the ability to transform until near adolesence (Wheelie is about the equivalent of a 12 year-old) and reformat themselves into their first alternate form, or they are born with the capability, and as they grow, take on larger, yet similar alternate forms as they grow and mature. Either is possible considering that the image of the Dinoforce's children from the Victory manga (along with Deathsaurus's wife, Esmeryl), seems to show them with with alternate mode features, and they're relatively young and small too. Unfortunately, they're not too detailed, so it's hard to tell. Here's the image:

The children are in the background.

Nice pic of female bot.

That should surely encourage the bots to produce more babies!

Auto-bot, no offense, but really, if you can't give anything constructive please do us the favor and don't comment. It really does nothing to help the thread at all, nor does it add anything interesting, just dull wittless remarks that show a very slighted level of maturity.

Night Striker wrote:

Night Stryker, while the idea of self-replicating nanites is not unique to TransFormers, nor an entirely new concept, it is logical. MtMtE refers to the system as regenrative circuitry. It's what allows TransFormers to heal from injury. A variant of this same system would be perfect for use in reproduction.

Sorry to disagree with you Tramp, but Regenertive circuitry is actually designed and means to heal interal injuries. They act as amplifiers to the TFs computersystem, and excute a program that would repair damage of a certain level. Much like a computer killing a virus, or repairing a bad boot. These circuits do not help in reproduction as that's not what they're used for. To regenerated means to make anew, to repair, not to reproduce which means to create from scrach a new life.

That is why I said a variant on the system. A variant specifically designed for reproduction much like our reproductive systems are based upon cellular division as well. Instead of self-replicating circuits with the ful genetic code, specialized ones which only have a random mix of half the genetic code, and which combines with some from the other mate to form a new completed circuit containing genetic code and a newly created spark from both parents, which then replicates and replicates, grows and develops forming a new TransFormer.

Also, the Regenerative circuitry is designed not just for internal injuries, but surface injuries as well. It is nano-technology. A computer killing a virus only repairs the software damage, not any hardware damage. The regenerative circuitry repairs hardware. It heals the body. Normally, regenrative circuitry deals with general maintenance, repairing minor injuries and such. If they are gravely injured and placed in a CR chamber, The CR chamber boosts the regenrtative circuitry and focuses it to repair the damaged systems instead of just general maintenamce.

As for growth of the child to adulthodd. I would hazard to say, it takes a long time, much longer than for Humans. Based upon what we know from the comics and cartoons, as well as MtMtE, The Spark is a part of the TransFormer, inseperable form the body unless forceably extracted and locked in a containment vessel, or the Cybertronian is permanently killed.

Not quiet right regarding the spark. We don't know how long it takes for a spark to mature, but I wouldn't think it's that long since Cheetor's the equivalent to a teenager and they were trapped there for three or four years. He grew to be like an 18 yearold in that time. Beast Machines made him into like a 20 year old. Also, from Beast Wars we've seen that a spark can survive without containment, as seen when Primal is holding Primes spark in his hand. This indicates to me that the spark can and does survive outside the container of a transformer. [/quote]

According to MtMtE #8, the Spark doesn't mature. It doesn't even exist until a protoform is imbued with power from the Matrix, Vector Sigma or using an energy wavelength similar to the Matrix and a lot of concentrated energon. The Spark is then spontaneoulsy created[ within the protoform. As stated on page 52, under the subsection Technical Specifications—

Essentially, a spark is a small bit of an as-yet-unclassified energy. It is not known how or why they are able to grant life to a Cybertronian. When a protoform is successfully imbued with enough energy to allow the formation process to begin (either by the Matrix itself or through other means), spark energy coalesces and enters the new body. When this occures, it begins a reformatting process that designs the robot and alternate modes for the new Cybertronian (in cases where the body has not already been fully designed and built). The spark itself does not rest in any single, set segment of the robot, rather, it suffuses its entire being. Upon termination, it has been quantified that a certain frequency of energy is released by a Cybertronian, most believe that this is the spark leaving its body. In cases of extremely long-lived mechanoids, termination is accompanied by an overall pallor of the body.

Night Striker wrote:

When a protoform is imbued with a spark, The spark comes directly from the Matrix or is created spontaneously through the use of an energy wave-length similar to that of the Matrix and a concentrated burst of energon, which requires a lot of energy to accomplish. These methods create fully grown adult-bodied TransFormers. For a "naturally born" TransFormer, They would be born as a tiny child, probably no larger than an adult human, possibly smaller, and grow in size and proportion, not by changing bosdies, but the body actually growing and developing.

I point this out to you very quickly. The cassettes and Maximals and Predacons were roughly the size of humans. They won't be growning any bigger, that's their final form. So saying that a child TF starts at that size would be a large error becuase theres enough proof to show that they would not start out at that size. You equate Transformers to humans, you can't do that. Transformers and Humans are of two very different classes. Transformers have no internal skeltal structure, as shown in MtMtE, Ulitmate guide, and various other places. Their outerbodies are basically the exoskelleton like an insects. Our muscles are what keep our internal organs in place, it's their outer bodies that do this for the Transformers. If they were to have the interal structure then they couldn't transform the way they do and fold in their mass to the size that they become. The interal structure grows via upgrades, and their own maturnation, not like bones that expand.

In the case of naturally small TFs, like the cassette-bots, any children would be corrispondingly smaller as well. The "human sized" offspring I mentioned would be in line with b[]full-sized[/b] TransFormers, such as Prime, Jazz, Elita-1, Ironhide, Starscream, and the like. Smaller bots like Brawn or the cassettes would have corrispondingly smaller children.

Their regenerative circuitry would likely play a huge part in this, becaus that is what it basically does, it creates new "tissue"—new circuitry, new structure, new armor, etc. continuously to repair damage and such, just like our own cells replicate to heal damage and to replace old, worn-out cells, as well as allow us to grow to adulthood.

Again, the regenerative circuitry is a repair system, it repairs damage, it doesn't create new tissue the way a humans would. And it can only repair so much as they still need doctors to fix them. For larger damage they need the CR Chamber and the drones to act as instruments in their repairs. This is evident in numerous episodes of both Beast Wars and G1.

Yes, but as I said, a specialized variant of that system could work for reproduction.

As for their appearance, There are two possibilities here. First possibility is they might not develop the ability to transform until near adolesence (Wheelie is about the equivalent of a 12 year-old) and reformat themselves into their first alternate form, or they are born with the capability, and as they grow, take on larger, yet similar alternate forms as they grow and mature. Either is possible considering that the image of the Dinoforce's children from the Victory manga (along with Deathsaurus's wife, Esmeryl), seems to show them with with alternate mode features, and they're relatively young and small too.

The first one doesn't seem to make sense since transformations were later ingraded into transformers via the G1 story, and in the comics it's from conception that they can actually transform. So ruleling out the first one, the seond one makes the most sense. However I feel that there would have to be a upgrade, much like how Cheetor was upgraded via a new body or a newer design to the older form. I point to the fact that Starscream in Armada mentions a Iacon Chamber where his spark resided, this makes me think that the whole issue with the bodies occures when the spark is matured and they're given their first form which is probably upgraded as the bot matures, and eventually the final form is issued which is then upgraded with new features much like the cast of Beast wars was, only in different ways.

YEs, there may need to be an upgrade, but not in the form of transferrring to a new body. The body itself would upgrade as it grows. Cheetor doesn't transfer his essence into a new body. His existing body reformats itself. That is the "upgrade".

Night Striker wrote:Auto-bot, no offense, but really, if you can't give anything constructive please do us the favor and don't comment. It really does nothing to help the thread at all, nor does it add anything interesting, just dull wittless remarks that show a very slighted level of maturity.

On top of that. The purpose of that pic was mainly to show the children of the Dino Force in the background. The femme in front is Esmeryl, Deathsuarus' wife.

That's called "having fun". Not everybody are required to contribute to view this thread.

But everybody should be free to enjoy it.

That is, if i'm not mistaken.

Of course you're allowed to enjoy it, but there's a line between enjoying and being a wiseguy. Enjoying could mean entering into the debated with legitimate information, or it could be viewing, or it could be making decent comments about something. Saying what you said about the picture doesn't equal that, it's just trying to goad Tramp, even though he pointed out that the main point of the picture was to show the children in the background, not the female bot in the front. Your last comment was ment as a dig and we both know it.

That is why I said a variant on the system. A variant specifically designed for reproduction much like our reproductive systems are based upon cellular division as well. Instead of self-replicating circuits with the ful genetic code, specialized ones which only have a random mix of half the genetic code, and which combines with some from the other mate to form a new completed circuit containing genetic code and a newly created spark from both parents, which then replicates and replicates, grows and develops forming a new TransFormer.

Also, the Regenerative circuitry is designed not just for internal injuries, but surface injuries as well. It is nano-technology. A computer killing a virus only repairs the software damage, not any hardware damage. The regenerative circuitry repairs hardware. It heals the body. Normally, regenrative circuitry deals with general maintenance, repairing minor injuries and such. If they are gravely injured and placed in a CR chamber, The CR chamber boosts the regenrtative circuitry and focuses it to repair the damaged systems instead of just general maintenamce.

Tramp, I do belive you're mistaking Chips and circuts. Circuitry is the devices that allow the eletrical impulses to go through a computer.

"1 a : the detailed plan or arrangement of an electric circuit b : the components of an electric circuit
2 : the network of interconnected neurons in the nervous system and especially the brain also : the neuronal pathways of the brain along which electrical and chemical signals travel" -Ciruitry

"A closed path through which an electric current flows or may flow. ◇ Circuits in which a power source is connected to two or more components (such as light bulbs, or logic gates in a computer circuit), one after the other, are called series circuits. If the circuit is broken, none of the components receives a current. Circuits in which a power source is directly connected to two or more components are called parallel circuits. If a break occurs in the circuit, only the component along whose path the break occurs stops receiving a current.
A system of electrically connected parts or devices." -a Circuit.

A chip on the other hand is "Electronics A minute slice of a semiconducting material, such as silicon or germanium, doped and otherwise processed to have specified electrical characteristics, especially before it is developed into an electronic component or integrated circuit. Also called microchip.
An integrated circuit. "

This varient that you speak of wouldn't be the circitury it would have to be in the microchips which are connected to the spark, or the biocircuts, whichever the case is.

According to MtMtE #8, the Spark doesn't mature. It doesn't even exist until a protoform is imbued with power from the Matrix, Vector Sigma or using an energy wavelength similar to the Matrix and a lot of concentrated energon. The Spark is then spontaneoulsy created[ within the protoform. As stated on page 52, under the subsection Technical Specifications—

Not according to Armada, which I take into account more then Dreamwaves work since Hasbro actually had a hand in creating the stories around Armada, and most of the Dreamwave stories were created for comic only use. Armada stated that the spark matures, and I buy that more then anything since the spark is essencially the soul and as a person grows so does the soul in a spirital way. (Beast Machines showed that.) Also do remember that the spark is a program that has to grow. It's like a nuclus that does mature and grow over time.

In the case of naturally small TFs, like the cassette-bots, any children would be corrispondingly smaller as well. The "human sized" offspring I mentioned would be in line with b[]full-sized[/b] TransFormers, such as Prime, Jazz, Elita-1, Ironhide, Starscream, and the like. Smaller bots like Brawn or the cassettes would have corrispondingly smaller children.

Again, not quite true. You're assumeing that if two short people have a child their child will be short, that's not always the case. Ditto transformers. The reason the minbots are small is that's the body type they were given. You can't equate the growth of a TF to that of a human becuase the structures are two very opposing things.

For the variant of the system, I again point out that the circuts are only used to stimuate programs that have specific actions. You keep equating the circuits to the genetic makeup that we have in our blood and systems. Transformers don't have this, they have chips and the spark is what has most of the gentic makeup of the transformer.

YEs, there may need to be an upgrade, but not in the form of transferrring to a new body. The body itself would upgrade as it grows. Cheetor doesn't transfer his essence into a new body. His existing body reformats itself. That is the "upgrade".

But it would need outside sources like I stated before. The body of a TF is more or less the exoskeletal structure that houses the componets. Each Upgrade has to be made from the outside rather then the inside becuase the body is not getting any larger then the final form. And you'll notice that Primal's body grew due to the external actions of the spark breaking the body cassing. This means that normally the TFs don't shed skin like snakes do. They mature internally and the body only changes due to upgrades from outside sources. The spark of Prime, Transmetal, Dinobots clone thing. All these are outside sorces that advanced the bodies of the transfomers, they did not phyisically grow, they were given a new form through an outside source.

Night Striker wrote:

That is why I said a variant on the system. A variant specifically designed for reproduction much like our reproductive systems are based upon cellular division as well. Instead of self-replicating circuits with the ful genetic code, specialized ones which only have a random mix of half the genetic code, and which combines with some from the other mate to form a new completed circuit containing genetic code and a newly created spark from both parents, which then replicates and replicates, grows and develops forming a new TransFormer.

Also, the Regenerative circuitry is designed not just for internal injuries, but surface injuries as well. It is nano-technology. A computer killing a virus only repairs the software damage, not any hardware damage. The regenerative circuitry repairs hardware. It heals the body. Normally, regenrative circuitry deals with general maintenance, repairing minor injuries and such. If they are gravely injured and placed in a CR chamber, The CR chamber boosts the regenrtative circuitry and focuses it to repair the damaged systems instead of just general maintenamce.

Tramp, I do belive you're mistaking Chips and circuts. Circuitry is the devices that allow the eletrical impulses to go through a computer.

"1 a : the detailed plan or arrangement of an electric circuit b : the components of an electric circuit
2 : the network of interconnected neurons in the nervous system and especially the brain also : the neuronal pathways of the brain along which electrical and chemical signals travel" -Ciruitry

"A closed path through which an electric current flows or may flow. ◇ Circuits in which a power source is connected to two or more components (such as light bulbs, or logic gates in a computer circuit), one after the other, are called series circuits. If the circuit is broken, none of the components receives a current. Circuits in which a power source is directly connected to two or more components are called parallel circuits. If a break occurs in the circuit, only the component along whose path the break occurs stops receiving a current.
A system of electrically connected parts or devices." -a Circuit.

A chip on the other hand is "Electronics A minute slice of a semiconducting material, such as silicon or germanium, doped and otherwise processed to have specified electrical characteristics, especially before it is developed into an electronic component or integrated circuit. Also called microchip.
An integrated circuit. "

I'm not mistaking what they are. More than Meets the Eye #8 specifically refers to them as regenerative circuitry. The writers may have used the teminaology incorrectly, but the mechanics are the same. Basically, what they're talking about is self-replicating nano-machines

This varient that you speak of wouldn't be the circitury it would have to be in the microchips which are connected to the spark, or the biocircuts, whichever the case is.

It is part of the biocircuits. That is simply what the book calls the system.

According to MtMtE #8, the Spark doesn't mature. It doesn't even exist until a protoform is imbued with power from the Matrix, Vector Sigma or using an energy wavelength similar to the Matrix and a lot of concentrated energon. The Spark is then spontaneoulsy created[ within the protoform. As stated on page 52, under the subsection Technical Specifications—

Not according to Armada, which I take into account more then Dreamwaves work since Hasbro actually had a hand in creating the stories around Armada, and most of the Dreamwave stories were created for comic only use. Armada stated that the spark matures, and I buy that more then anything since the spark is essencially the soul and as a person grows so does the soul in a spirital way. (Beast Machines showed that.) Also do remember that the spark is a program that has to grow. It's like a nuclus that does mature and grow over time.

Yes, the soul matures, but it doesn't do so before you are born, much less conceived. The spark matures as the Transformer matures, not before the Transformer is even created; not before the protoform is imbued with a spark and formats itself into new life. The Dreamwave comics, which became the basis for most of the information in TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide, established the core G1 continuity. DW also produced an Armada/Energon comic book series. They also released an MtMtE for Armada as well, though it provides no additional information on Sparks.

In the case of naturally small TFs, like the cassette-bots, any children would be corrispondingly smaller as well. The "human sized" offspring I mentioned would be in line with b[]full-sized[/b] TransFormers, such as Prime, Jazz, Elita-1, Ironhide, Starscream, and the like. Smaller bots like Brawn or the cassettes would have corrispondingly smaller children.

Again, not quite true. You're assumeing that if two short people have a child their child will be short, that's not always the case. Ditto transformers. The reason the minbots are small is that's the body type they were given. You can't equate the growth of a TF to that of a human becuase the structures are two very opposing things.

Not entirely. They are pretty analogous to humans, just larger. Secondly, some minibots, yes, as simply small of stature, like Brawn. He's basically a drawf. Others are simply young. Bumblebee is supposed to be relatively young. I would estimate about equivalent to 15 or so in human age, Wheelie is about the equivalent of a 12-year-old. The main point about children being so small and remaining comparitively small depending upon the Parent bot's size, particularly the mother, is because the femme's body wouldn't be able to stretch in orde to accomidate a larger offspring. Thus, any offspring would need to be small enough to not impede the femme or grow too big for her internal systems. For a Full-sized bot, that would equate to a child about the size of an adult human or smaller. For an adult minibot femme, that would equate to a child about the size of an an average six-year-old human child.

For the variant of the system, I again point out that the circuts are only used to stimuate programs that have specific actions. You keep equating the circuits to the genetic makeup that we have in our blood and systems. Transformers don't have this, they have chips and the spark is what has most of the gentic makeup of the transformer.

Actually, yes they do. MtMte #8 repeatedly refers to them having a genetic code. For instance, in the section on Mass conversion, it states that "this ability represents a significant genetic difference in those who posess it." In the section on Triple-Changers. It states that Shockwave realized that there must be a hardwired genetic component predisposing certain Cybertronians to accomidate triple-changing. So, yes, Cybertronians do have a genetic code. They do ave an analog to DNA.

YEs, there may need to be an upgrade, but not in the form of transferrring to a new body. The body itself would upgrade as it grows. Cheetor doesn't transfer his essence into a new body. His existing body reformats itself. That is the "upgrade".

But it would need outside sources like I stated before. The body of a TF is more or less the exoskeletal structure that houses the componets. Each Upgrade has to be made from the outside rather then the inside becuase the body is not getting any larger then the final form. And you'll notice that Primal's body grew due to the external actions of the spark breaking the body cassing. This means that normally the TFs don't shed skin like snakes do. They mature internally and the body only changes due to upgrades from outside sources. The spark of Prime, Transmetal, Dinobots clone thing. All these are outside sorces that advanced the bodies of the transfomers, they did not phyisically grow, they were given a new form through an outside source.

No, it wouldn't. They would just need to age and grow. It's part of being life. Life does not require outside forces to grow and mature. It just requires food and time. What you are ferring to specifically is a process called reformatting, and that is not the same thing. In the example of Cheetor, he was already fully grown, an adult, about the equivalent to an 18-year-old or so. In the cartoon, he went through very specific metamorphosies as a result of special cercumstances. HE wasn't aging or growing. Secondly, it has also been shown in comics and later cartoons, that the alternate mode chosen has a dramatic effect on the robot mode's appearance, and that TransFormers are capable of scanning a new alternate mode by themselves. We see this in Armada, as well as the new movie, and in the differences in appearance between War Within and the ongoing G1 comics. Thus, a child would not need an outside force just to grow and develop, or even necessarily to reformat himself or herself a new alternate mode more in keeping with their size and age.

Tramp, you have a ridiculously closed mind. Transformers takes inagination to watch, which you clearly have in areas which help your argument, and none in areas that don't. You claim reproduction is necessary in all life forms, ete. Transformers have been shown to asexually split off from each other in Generation 2. In any case, Transformers is mainly a children's cartoon, and therefore, they don't have to stick to anything. That's like asking if Mokujin from Tekken can sexually reproduce, and saying he has to because he's a lifeform, even though he's made of wood. And Night Striker, stop trying to be a policeman in every topic. It doesn't make you look good to other posters, it makes you look like a killjoy.

Tramp, you are trying to apply laws that apply to organic races to robots. This alone means your argument is pointless. And I find it humourous how you keep stating over and over again things out of a book overwritten by the Ultimate Guide, because it suits your interpretation of an argument. What MTMTE 8 means is that Regenerative Circuitry is somewhat of an anti-virus and self-repair system.

Whenever something comes up you want to argue with, you conveniently sidestep something that contradicts it, and claim that your version is official. You think everything written after the cartoon overwrites it, and you try and thumb the Ultimate Guide as a bible, but whenever something comes up which isn't in the Ultimate Guide, it counts as an argument to your delusional beliefs of robot sex all of a sudden.

Anyone who believes robots can have sex has very serious issues. Although in your case, I think it's just that you're a troll looking to intentionally annoy people with your stubborn self-contradiction and hardheadedness, and unwillingness to admit anyone's ever right, and constant thinking that you're correct all the time.