The Energon Pub

Just five more post Jason...

And identifying would be easier if we saw the robot mode as well.

Congrats on figuring out how to transform a Tiny Turbo Changer btw, I know how difficult you find them ...

Here it is. I actually figured out all the Tiny Turbo changers without looking at the instructions. It should be noted that the windows are totally silver.

I thought we could delete our posts on the buy/sell/trade forum, but I can't figure out how to do that with my phone. I was hoping I could reduce my post count by taking out a few. I talked to that news staff you said to talk to, and he said he couldn't do anything.

I'm working on adding additional paint touches to my Titans Return Scourge(s). And so I'd like people's input on what they think works best for Scourge's face and hands: Silver like the Titans Return version, or flat gray like the original toy's face (and I think the Legends version? Or is that a bluish light gray?)? And which is better for his abs: Silver, flat gray, or light blue?

Still after measurements of the heads on vintage Headmaster Partners (Duros, Zarak, Quig, etc.) Especially the height. The other dimensions I can get a good idea of from measuring the outside of the socket, but not the height. Or can the sockets be opened up without worry? I also want to know what measurements give what readings on the Tech Specometer reels. I'm interested in doing homemade Headmaster Partners (and in particular a homemade replica of Zarak) to go with the headless vintage toys I have.

Don't have any g1 headmasters myself, but if you have the bodies to hand: could you poke something like a cocktail stick in, see how far the techspecs move, mark off how far the stick was pushed in and measure that length? Having never handled them myself I'm not sure how much "access" you have to the pegholes to try something like that, but could be worth a thought

..Thank you. I can't believe I didn't think of that. *slaps self for being stupid*

Any thoughts on the Scourge detail colors?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Any thoughts on the Scourge detail colors?

Personally, just thinking about it in my head (I don't have my TR Scourge next to me to mentally project the colors onto): I'd paint the hands light gray, abs light blue (to match the color of the boat/wings/whatever-else if possible) and leave the face as it is. That might end up being too many different colors on the one toy through, so exercise your own discretion obviously. (Maybe the hands might also look good in a light blue? It'd still break up the colorscheme a bit without really adding any new colors to the palette and making it too busy.)

Ok, so I asked this in the trypticon thread but got no response so I'll ask here with the hope that someone will have some sort of answer. I have recently started collecting Transformers again and I am after g1 figures as well as some of the newer stuff (Armada to the present). Buying g1 stuff is a real roll of the dice and about the only way I am comfortable doing it is by either buying stuff in person at various shops or buying figures on eBay that show obvious signs of use and wear so I know I have a fighting chance at getting a real figure. But there are a lot of newer figures out of the titans return/generations that I'd literally have to buy online to have a chance of getting. Most of the local stores have a very bad selection and it's stagnant although I'd much rather find them in the store.

I may just resort to BBTS but I wanted to know if the figures being sold from China are legit via eBay? Honestly, a lot of them can be had cheaper and on the two or three I purchased, they seem no different in any way than the ones I see at local stores(although I'm comparing the packaging only as they are different figures than the ones I got...otherwise I'd have just got them from the store). I know good and well to stay away from the "reissue" stuff and boxed g1 stuff from China. But what about the titans return or generations? I've honestly looked this up, googled it, etc and can't find much info. Like nobody wants to talk about it or just flat out doesn't really know the answer.

Anyone have an idea or info about this?

lakebot wrote:Ok, so I asked this in the trypticon thread but got no response so I'll ask here with the hope that someone will have some sort of answer. I have recently started collecting Transformers again and I am after g1 figures as well as some of the newer stuff (Armada to the present). Buying g1 stuff is a real roll of the dice and about the only way I am comfortable doing it is by either buying stuff in person at various shops or buying figures on eBay that show obvious signs of use and wear so I know I have a fighting chance at getting a real figure. But there are a lot of newer figures out of the titans return/generations that I'd literally have to buy online to have a chance of getting. Most of the local stores have a very bad selection and it's stagnant although I'd much rather find them in the store.

I may just resort to BBTS but I wanted to know if the figures being sold from China are legit via eBay? Honestly, a lot of them can be had cheaper and on the two or three I purchased, they seem no different in any way than the ones I see at local stores(although I'm comparing the packaging only as they are different figures than the ones I got...otherwise I'd have just got them from the store). I know good and well to stay away from the "reissue" stuff and boxed g1 stuff from China. But what about the titans return or generations? I've honestly looked this up, googled it, etc and can't find much info. Like nobody wants to talk about it or just flat out doesn't really know the answer.

Anyone have an idea or info about this?

At this point TR figures (and most of Generations I'd imagine) are too recent and not nearly profitable enough to have a significant risk of knockoffs. Chances are if you buy a more recent TF over eBay (as long as the price isn't really too good to be true), you're probably pretty safe. More or less, the only likely worst-case scenario is that those ones from China are early samples or something, so the QC might be a little less reliable - that's speculation on my part though, and if you check the feedback rating and so on for the seller that'd probably be a good gauge of the item's trustworthiness too.

But yeah, when it comes down to it, nobody really does know the answer for certain. The only people who know for certain what exactly is being sold are the sellers themselves, and trying to ask them is like asking a person if they're guilty of a crime - either way, they're going to claim innocence, regardless whether they are or not. And even if what they're selling does happen to be less than legit, if it's good enough then no-one's going to be able to tell that the figures aren't legit so still nobody would know. Bottom line, there's never going to be a definitive answer on this, but as long as you exercise reasonable caution buying from eBay (and other sites like it) there's very little need to be paranoid about the legitimacy of what you're getting.

Much appreciated Qwan! I didn't figure they would be KO's but was just wondering why, when I looked for any new figure in particular, I'd see a few pop up from US sellers(usually at a higher price) and then a billion pop up from overseas (particularly China) sellers. Like were these poor QC examples, somebody stealing, etc. I'd prefer not to give my money to people doing things like that. Just wondering if there was a known issue or reason to avoid them.

BTW, the G1 "reissues" or KO's now are extremely scary in regards to their likeness and quality. I've even seen a few loose versions that I'd consider suspect from people selling them as original g1 figures. I'd rather have a well worn g1 figure as long as I know it's real. That can be pretty hard to do buying online these days.

The EBay figures from China should be considered "early bird" releases at best, and "stolen factory samples/rejects" at worst. The Generations-styled lines are relatively safe from bootlegs or 100% reproductions, as there are none documented, thus far (in fact, any figure from 1990-1995 and later should be safe, given some exceptions). KO's of those toys usually have differences that are easy to spot starting with the packaging, plus more often than not they're upsized and/or simplified. I would advise doing your research before dealing with them tho, as some sellers don't really have a good grasp of English, plus Customer Service can suck with them.

That said, there is one single line where caution should be exercised: Henkei, or the Japanese counterpart of Classics and Universe 2008. Bootlegs of Optimus Prime/Convoy, the Seekers, Rodimus/Hot Rodimus and some others exist from that line, down to reproduced packaging, and in a variety of schemes:

- original color
- Club and convention exclusive
- chromed and Lucky Draw style
- new made-up deco

CHMS is the big name in that area, having produced a plethora of KO's, usually sold via the now-defunct KOToys.com. They're especially known for their Seekers and redecos, think of purple Air Warriors, the Rainmakers and other wacky colors. The silver lining is that for their later releases they took the habit of putting their name on the packaging, so there's that.

No, the real danger now lies with the Masterpieces, and ironically enough, the "Third Party" figures. Thankfully, reputable sellers denote them as such upon being spotted.

If you have more questions, feel free to post them in this hidden forum dedicated all IP-fringing products:

Unlicensed and KO Transformers Toys Forum

Thanks for the info goldrabbit! I'm not really into the MP's as they are usually pretty expensive and for the price, I'd rather have an original g1 (provided I can find a legit one) as most of the MP's cost more than an original can be had. I did see the KO forum prior to posting here but knowing people actively collect them and there is a big market for them or the third party types, that is kind of what I interpreted that entire section to be: an area dedicated to collectors of KO's.

One thing I can say is I'm pretty thoroughly disappointed in the retail area when it comes to toys these days. I understand toys can be limited in regards to total production and a lot of things are limited due to price point and due to it being a "collector" type of product(as opposed to being simply a toy that would appeal to any and all). But I get the feeling that buying retail anymore is very hit or miss. I know it always has been to a degree but it seems even more so now(I used to collect a number of different toys in the past). I'm not sure if it's more of a deal where everyone is buying up what they feel might be popular simply to flip on ebay or hold. Or if it's a lack of overall production. Or both. But it's kind of pushing a person to buy more online than in the stores. And more from non-retail suppliers than the online branch of retailers themselves. And then you hear how retailers are going out of business. Little wonder when after repeated attempts to find various figures that should be readily available, end in failure, even on their(the retailers) web site.

If Hasbro really only pays attention to the Transformers Facebook group (and some people who contact Customer Services) will they get a highly distorted view of the consumers wants, preferences and desires.

Time and time again you hear a rep say they didn't know the fans are interested in such and such a thing - and yet that thing is often a regular topic of conversation on multiple locations (besides Hasbro's own facebook).

I even wondered if they are monitoring their own youtuibe pages so heavily that no one higher up never sees anything bad.

Thus customer services reacting to the Complaints about Trypticon's self immolation issues with a air of puzzled derision & outright dismissal.

lakebot wrote:One thing I can say is I'm pretty thoroughly disappointed in the retail area when it comes to toys these days. I understand toys can be limited in regards to total production and a lot of things are limited due to price point and due to it being a "collector" type of product(as opposed to being simply a toy that would appeal to any and all). But I get the feeling that buying retail anymore is very hit or miss. I know it always has been to a degree but it seems even more so now(I used to collect a number of different toys in the past). I'm not sure if it's more of a deal where everyone is buying up what they feel might be popular simply to flip on ebay or hold. Or if it's a lack of overall production. Or both. But it's kind of pushing a person to buy more online than in the stores. And more from non-retail suppliers than the online branch of retailers themselves. And then you hear how retailers are going out of business. Little wonder when after repeated attempts to find various figures that should be readily available, end in failure, even on their(the retailers) web site.

Honestly, my guess is more that it comes down to retailers not feeling enough popularity with the brand. This is all speculation, but I imagine it's somewhat of a cycle:

Transformers seem important to us but overall there are many more popular and profitable toy lines that stores could carry; Because of that, stores carry less TF product in favor of other lines; More dedicated collectors who would buy TFs therefore go online instead of buying in stores, due to a limited choice at retail; And so the perceived popularity of TFs decreases even more in the eyes of retailers, starting the spiral all over again.

It sucks for us, but from a business perspective I suppose it makes sense for the retailers. Why stock up on every available TF figure when even the most profitable price-points often take a while to sell, and you could fill an aisle with Star Wars and TMNT instead and make money hand-over-fist by comparison? As long as we still have options, even if they're not the most desirable, that's good enough for me - we may not be able to get everything we want in stores, but at least TFs are still selling well enough to justify continuing to make new toys for those of us who are more invested in every figure they put out.

Qwan wrote:Honestly, my guess is more that it comes down to retailers not feeling enough popularity with the brand. This is all speculation, but I imagine it's somewhat of a cycle:

Transformers seem important to us but overall there are many more popular and profitable toy lines that stores could carry; Because of that, stores carry less TF product in favor of other lines; More dedicated collectors who would buy TFs therefore go online instead of buying in stores, due to a limited choice at retail; And so the perceived popularity of TFs decreases even more in the eyes of retailers, starting the spiral all over again.

It sucks for us, but from a business perspective I suppose it makes sense for the retailers. Why stock up on every available TF figure when even the most profitable price-points often take a while to sell, and you could fill an aisle with Star Wars and TMNT instead and make money hand-over-fist by comparison? As long as we still have options, even if they're not the most desirable, that's good enough for me - we may not be able to get everything we want in stores, but at least TFs are still selling well enough to justify continuing to make new toys for those of us who are more invested in every figure they put out.

I'd almost agree with that if there were not recent transformers movies and merchandise out the wazoo(including bagpacks, cups, birthday party set ups, cakes at your local grocery store that are transformers themed, shower curtains and bath mats, clothes, etc.). It's just as "out there" as Star Wars, TMNT, Power Rangers, etc. Although I will cave in a little and say Star Wars has been a beast of a franchise since forever and even if kid's interest wanes, older adults may try to buy the products(for the kiddos) so that they can continue a "tradition" of sorts for their kids. And, last time I checked(today) the Transformers stuff at TRU was buy one get the next 40% off while a lot of the star wars stuff is simply being clearanced at half off.

Four ATAT's(star wars) at $249(man these things are getting expensive) sitting on the shelf for the last month in addition to several millennium faclons($199) while the only two Trypticons I've seen anywhere and the four masterpiece primes are all gone within days of being stocked($149 and $159 respectively). I'm trying to remain objective about it and realize it's not something I have all the info for, therefore I cannot hope to know what is going through the mind of the powers that be when production and ordering are involved. And I'm also aware that mine is a small sample size and, I would hope, not in any way a true reflection all over the country. I'm merely throwing an observation out there. But I get the feeling that with a lot of the other toy lines, you may have to go to a few stores to finally land something, but you can land it in store. I don't feel that way about the Transformers stuff however.

RAR wrote:If Hasbro really only pays attention to the Transformers Facebook group (and some people who contact Customer Services) will they get a highly distorted view of the consumers wants, preferences and desires.

Time and time again you hear a rep say they didn't know the fans are interested in such and such a thing - and yet that thing is often a regular topic of conversation on multiple locations (besides Hasbro's own facebook).

I even wondered if they are monitoring their own youtuibe pages so heavily that no one higher up never sees anything bad.

Thus customer services reacting to the Complaints about Trypticon's self immolation issues with a air of puzzled derision & outright dismissal.

I feel like Hasbro should be easily able to find out what fans/collectors as well as kids would like. I think making them available en masse is the problem. The generations line in particular really puzzles me. I see a whole lot of transformers that stagnate the shelves while the more popular ones are gone and remain so. Now, I might be biased, but a lot of the things I'd think to myself would be cool for them to re-create either don't exist or, if they do, are a small fraction of that current wave, seem to sell out, and never get re-ordered?

I think hasbro's been proving for the last several years they have very little interest in what adult fans actually want and more what the younger kids can convince mom to buy them. "If adult fans want titan classes or box sets or masterpieces, let them buy it online" seems to be their view.

Thing is, even if Hasbro's three market sectors for transformers- preschool kids (rescue bots, onesteps), older kids (rid15, movie), and fans (generations, masterpiece) were equally split, which I imagine theyre not, we'd only make up a third of their audience. They're always gonna want a variety of product on shelves to cast the widest net and get the most sales. As regards what individual retailers choose to stock, that's down to what they think will sell better. A lot of them barely notice the difference between the toys and so end up ordering for instance a whole bunch of simplified stuff which shelfwarms, leading them to believe "transformers don't sell" and stocking less in future. I guess also Hasbro realise that those who are able/likely to buy online are generally the fans- if there's some stuff that will only viably see release as an exclusive, it might as well be tailored to the online/fandom-specific-site market.

As for Hasbro not knowing what fans want, ive long suspected that their "lol we didn't know you guys were after these figures" is in most cases a go-to white lie when they can't get away with saying the real answer, in the same way they'll say "were really excited we can do this now" rather than "we couldn't figure out how to do this before", perhaps? Similarly, they'd never be able to admit publicly to there being a QC issue with their biggest-ticket item currently on the market, but saying "it seems like isolated incidents but we're looking into it anyway" is a way of saving face.

Optimum Supreme wrote:I think hasbro's been proving for the last several years they have very little interest in what adult fans actually want and more what the younger kids can convince mom to buy them. "If adult fans want titan classes or box sets or masterpieces, let them buy it online" seems to be their view.

I see a lot of truth in that. Although you'd think that all and not just some of the stuff would be available through the actual retailers online. Hasbro may not give a hoot(or maybe they do...who knows). The retailers should though. But hey, I'm cool with using BBTS if need be. Not fond of having stuff, especially big packages shipped to the house but if they will allow me to buy what I'm after, and local retailers don't see the need to bother, that's their loss.

ArmadaPrime wrote:Thing is, even if Hasbro's three market sectors for transformers- preschool kids (rescue bots, onesteps), older kids (rid15, movie), and fans (generations, masterpiece) were equally split, which I imagine theyre not, we'd only make up a third of their audience. They're always gonna want a variety of product on shelves to cast the widest net and get the most sales. As regards what individual retailers choose to stock, that's down to what they think will sell better. A lot of them barely notice the difference between the toys and so end up ordering for instance a whole bunch of simplified stuff which shelfwarms, leading them to believe "transformers don't sell" and stocking less in future. I guess also Hasbro realise that those who are able/likely to buy online are generally the fans- if there's some stuff that will only viably see release as an exclusive, it might as well be tailored to the online/fandom-specific-site market.

As for Hasbro not knowing what fans want, ive long suspected that their "lol we didn't know you guys were after these figures" is in most cases a go-to white lie when they can't get away with saying the real answer, in the same way they'll say "were really excited we can do this now" rather than "we couldn't figure out how to do this before", perhaps? Similarly, they'd never be able to admit publicly to there being a QC issue with their biggest-ticket item currently on the market, but saying "it seems like isolated incidents but we're looking into it anyway" is a way of saving face.

As for Hasbro, I'm not really super upset with them over anything they do as truth be told, I don't think they are any different than any other toy maker or, if you really wanted to go out on a limb, any manufacturer. There are a lot of products out there(toys and non) that people sit back and scratch their heads wondering "who in the world came up with this idea?". In a lot of other industries, you see the people in charge of creating things or coming up with ideas and you can tell they are not consumers of the products they create. In Hasbro's case, I'd find it hard to believe all the people creating things are "fans". And in the rare cases where you see a company actually listening intently to fan/consumer suggestions, they end up taking a good idea and running it into the ground. I will say toy quality now seems way sub par to the last time I collected though. That can go for not just TF but other toy lines as well. I transform an original G1 and I'm worried it might break because it's 30+ years old. I transform a newer toy and I'm worried it might break because of how cheaply it's made.


As for my semi rant in the above posts regarding the availability of certain items in stores, I guess it's just been smoldering a while for me as you hear a lot about all these retailers closing up shop and how online sales are ruining their ability to stay open. I'm old school. I'd prefer to go to a store and buy things rather than online. No shipping costs, no damage in the mail, no waiting, and no hoping someone doesn't swipe it from the door step. Add to that that some(in some cases you can say a lot) of this stuff isn't available on the store websites and it really makes you think it's almost like self sabotage.

I've seen TR Wave 4 Deluxes at Target. Wave 5 anything, on the other hand, was nowhere to be found when I was last out looking a couple weeks ago. Which is a shame because I was quite hoping for Wolfwire. Meanwhile, the shelfwarming Blasters had been cleared out... along with, apparently, the shelf space for TR Leader-class figures.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I've seen TR Wave 4 Deluxes at Target. Wave 5 anything, on the other hand, was nowhere to be found when I was last out looking a couple weeks ago. Which is a shame because I was quite hoping for Wolfwire. Meanwhile, the shelfwarming Blasters had been cleared out... along with, apparently, the shelf space for TR Leader-class figures.

I have had really good luck by going to out of the way places. Granted it is still Target or Walmart and occasionally Walgreens but if I look now, I know better than to look locally. Been having much better luck looking out in the boondocks. I think a lot of people around here either collect or sell on ebay or a combo of both because you can easily tell some of the newer stuff has been released but only a slight clue is left on the shelf because anything remotely cool is gone. All of it. If you're up for a drive and there is somewhere around you(a neighboring town or something) it might be worth the drive. I've already found a bunch of the Titans Return stuff I was contemplating buying online. Saves me from paying the markup or the shipping. Or buying from China where I'm still not 100% sure on the validity or quality of the items.

I've given up on TRU. Was able to order the Trypticon on BBTS although the grade was substandard. I'm hoping the box isn't too bad.

How do the Binaltech figures scale compared to the current size classes? Are they like Voyager scale figures or smaller/bigger?

Also, if anyone has the Binaltech Asterisk figures, how do the girls scale compared to Titan Masters? If anyone has pictures I'd appreciate it.

Here you have, compared with other random figures.



(New Diaclone pilot, Titan Master, G1 powermaster, RM Saber, Asterisk AI, Kiss Marissa, Mask Pilot)

Ai and Marissa, which both fits in a Binaltech/alternator are not even on the same scale as you can see.

ExciKaiser wrote:Here you have, compared with other random figures.

IMG_09141.JPG

(New Diaclone pilot, Titan Master, G1 powermaster, RM Saber, Asterisk AI, Kiss Marissa, Mask Pilot)

Ai and Marissa, which both fits in a Binaltech/alternator are not even on the same scale as you can see.

Thanks!!
That's a very helpful pic, I appreciate you helping me out like that.

I would've liked it if the girls were the same size as the Titan Masters, but they still seem like a good size to be used with my Generations figures.

Now to try to track down unopened copies for a decent price. This'll be fun.