The Energon Pub

Well I'm off to bed!!!But dont worry.....I'l bee back to turn your day into an adventure.!!!!!!!!!!!

Another reason to view Masterforce as a different continuity than Headmasters (even though I lump them in the same one) is due to the presence of Mars. It was destroyed in Headmasters, but appears in Masterforce. Though the manga combines the two together, explaining about Sixshot, Blackzarak, etc, these are never revealled in the show and is easy to class as it's own continuity.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You see there were many ideas that were changed between TF headmasters and TF masterforce.The Headmasters in the Headmaster show were not humanoid's but they were in Masterforce.Also in the orignal script the Pretenders and the powermaster bodys were hiding for milions of years on Earth but why I dont think was ever explored.

Maybe it wasn't, but that still doesn't make them separate continuities, also, even if the first Headmansters were Cybertronians as the heads, there is no reason why they couldn't figure out how to make Humanoids form the heads of TF bodies too. It's just an advancement on the technology. As for the Powermaster and Pretender bodies hidden on Earth for millions of years, It isn't that implausible. The Ark was too and went undiscovered that entire time. Why couldn't another ship be hidden?

Tramp wrote:Shirogoshi, I have the US Marvel run. including the issues you refer to, and Cybertron is not destroyed. Primus is not killed. Cybertron still plays a part in Generation 2. It couldn't do that if it were gone. Yes, Emirate Xaaron may have died while acting as a vessel for Primus. That does not mean Primus is dead, and certainly not permanently. Remember, the Last Autobot? He restored Cybertron. He restored Primus, just as he recerated Optimus Prime from Hi-Q.

I can read. I'm not thick. You don't need to bold every second word is your posts. And Primus IS killed. Look at issue 75, and look at issue 77. I WROTE THAT PASSAGE OF BLASTER'S WORD FOR WORD FROM ISSUE 77, WHICH IS HAD IN FRONT OF ME AT THE TIME! How about instead of talking down to people and contradicting yourself as always, you actually go to your book case, look through those comics and tell me what they say?

And I don't want to hear anything about you've read them through enough, go read them NOW, and tell me what you find. Primus. GETS. DESTROYED. The Last Autobot brings him back. I didn't mean that Cybertron got blown up, I meant that Primus' death makes the planet begin to go sky high, and if it weren't for the Last Autobot, Primus would've stayed dead. And what of Unicron, huh? Did he ever show up again in G2? Didn't think so.

I'd love to hear your half-truthish "I know better than everyone because I'm Tramp, and what I say is right" excuse for this one.

Unicron gets killed multiple times too, yet ha always comes back. Why would that be any different for Primus? Remember, they are both gods. The Last Autobot is an avatar of Primus, one of the Original 13. It was Emirate Xaaaron who died. Primus was just inhaoiting him. You can't kill a god; not permanently.

Now then, once again, I have issues 75-80 in front of me, and Optimus, as he plunges the untainted Matrix into Unicron's Maw, says that Cybertronians were created to live "AFTER PRIMUS IS GONE."

He then states "You must Die Primus, so that others may live."

Also, Unicron states that he thought he saw Primus DIE when Thunderwing got his arse kicked at the end of the Matrix Quest. Now, if they're meant to be "Immortal", why all the talk about themselves dying, and the other dying? If they were Immortal, why would Unicron be frightened of the Matrix?

Shirogoshi wrote:Now then, once again, I have issues 75-80 in front of me, and Optimus, as he plunges the untainted Matrix into Unicron's Maw, says that Cybertronians were created to live "AFTER PRIMUS IS GONE."

He then states "You must Die Primus, so that others may live."

Also, Unicron states that he thought he saw Primus DIE when Thunderwing got his arse kicked at the end of the Matrix Quest. Now, if they're meant to be "Immortal", why all the talk about themselves dying, and the other dying? If they were Immortal, why would Unicron be frightened of the Matrix?

Because the Matrix is the only thing that can possibly destroy him, even temporarily. The Matrix is the pure essence of Primus. That is why he fears it. Read the Ultimate Guide. All the answers are in there. Even if you "kill" Unicron or Primus, given time, they will regenerate. They are eternal brothers, two opposites, one the personification of good, the other, the personification of evil. One is the Lord of Light and Order, the other is the Chaos bringer and Lord of destruction. Both are integral parts the balance of creation. Neither can ever be permanently destroyed.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You see there were many ideas that were changed between TF headmasters and TF masterforce.The Headmasters in the Headmaster show were not humanoid's but they were in Masterforce.Also in the orignal script the Pretenders and the powermaster bodys were hiding for milions of years on Earth but why I dont think was ever explored.

Maybe it wasn't, but that still doesn't make them separate continuities, also, even if the first Headmansters were Cybertronians as the heads, there is no reason why they couldn't figure out how to make Humanoids form the heads of TF bodies too. It's just an advancement on the technology. As for the Powermaster and Pretender bodies hidden on Earth for millions of years, It isn't that implausible. The Ark was too and went undiscovered that entire time. Why couldn't another ship be hidden?

The problem with that is that it was the same Transformers.They had Cromedome,Brainstorm,Hibrow,Hardhead and Fortress Maximus not to mention the Decepticon Headmasters and Targetmasters.It was an entirely different take on the headmaster idea and can not fit into our G1 universe.Even if the tek could have been applied to humanoids it wasnt.The show ran about 52 episodes with TF's dieing and coming back threw out the series.Soundwave and Blaster both die and return.And unlike your theroy about their brain casing staying intack like in the books...it has always been showen that a TF that dies and fades to grey stays dead in the U.S. show....but in the Japanese show they can be brought back.

Well, actually the vading to grey is only happens with extremely long-lived Cybertronians. Not only that, but Prime had vaded to grey when he passed, and they brought him back. His spark was restored to him. Ironhide was never revived. HE had taken a point-blank shot to the head by Megatron's fusion cannon.

Tramp wrote:Unicron gets killed multiple times too, yet ha always comes back. Why would that be any different for Primus? Remember, they are both gods. The Last Autobot is an avatar of Primus, one of the Original 13. It was Emirate Xaaaron who died. Primus was just inhaoiting him. You can't kill a god; not permanently.

I don't remember any mention of Original 13 in the Marvel comics. I need to re-read them again.

You're ridiculous, you know that? You contradict yourself over and over again, and still expect people to value your input. First you say The Ultimate Guide can't change what's written in the Marvel Comics, and now you say it can!

Just give up, Tramp, you've lost the argument. This constant "I'm always right because I will argue your point, and I'll claim exactly the opposite to what you just said, even though it contradicts what I said 2 posts ago" BS is beginning to make me wonder if you're going out of your way to annoy people and make a nuisance of yourself on purpose.

It's funny that you can write an email to Simon Furman and tell him how to write his comics, but in this instance, since his Ultimate Guide gives you a way to argue with people who know better, he's good by you. In this case.

They're not indestructable, and if they were, they'd know. And they don't know. IF it were only a temporary death, why would Unicron be so scared? What, he's an injury phobic now?

The concept of the Original 13 hadn't been developed yet, but The Last Autobot is stated as being one of the very first TransFormers.

Tramp wrote:Well, actually the vading to grey is only happens with extremely long-lived Cybertronians. Not only that, but Prime had vaded to grey when he passed, and they brought him back. His spark was restored to him. Ironhide was never revived. HE had taken a point-blank shot to the head by Megatron's fusion cannon.

I should have said besides Prime.....but the point I'm trying to make is that in the U.S. toon all TF's that "died" and turnd grey stayed dead,Prowl,Wheeljack,Windcharger and many more but in the Japanese Headmasters Prowl and Wheeljack are back from the dead....and to make maters worse Blaster and Soundwave kill each other in a fight both turning grey and are brought back.

Shirogoshi wrote:You're ridiculous, you know that? You contradict yourself over and over again, and still expect people to value your input. First you say The Ultimate Guide can't change what's written in the Marvel Comics, and now you say it can!

Just give up, Tramp, you've lost the argument. This constant "I'm always right because I will argue your point, and I'll claim exactly the opposite to what you just said, even though it contradicts what I said 2 posts ago" BS is beginning to make me wonder if you're going out of your way to annoy people and make a nuisance of yourself on purpose.

It's funny that you can write an email to Simon Furman and tell him how to write his comics, but in this instance, since his Ultimate Guide gives you a way to argue with people who know better, he's good by you. In this case.

They're not indestructable, and if they were, they'd know. And they don't know. IF it were only a temporary death, why would Unicron be so scared? What, he's an injury phobic now?

Shirogoshi, TransFormers the Ultimate Guide says that they can not be permanently destroyed in any given continuity. Given time, they will regenerate. We see Unicron do it in multiple continuties. In order for their physical pforms to not regenerate in a given universe, that entire reality would need to be wiped out. This happened in the Armada comics where Overrun came to the Armada universe from a reality that had indeed been completely destroyed and consumed by Unicron. Even then, Primus still exists, as an entity, his consiousness still a part of the Astral plane and on all of the other realities.

Even though the Original 13 is a concept from the DW comics, and they aren't the same continuity as Marvel.

And they cannot bloody regenerate. And I love how you avoided answering ANY of my claims about your hypocracy. Or is it just that your Ultimate Guide doesn't tell you how to answer those?

Answer this, already, troll: You said several posts ago, the Ultimate Guide couldnt' overwrite Marvel.

Now, you claim it can.

Which is it?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Well, actually the vading to grey is only happens with extremely long-lived Cybertronians. Not only that, but Prime had vaded to grey when he passed, and they brought him back. His spark was restored to him. Ironhide was never revived. HE had taken a point-blank shot to the head by Megatron's fusion cannon.

I should have said besides Prime.....but the point I'm trying to make is that in the U.S. toon all TF's that "died" and turnd grey stayed dead,Prowl,Wheeljack,Windcharger and many more but in the Japanese Headmasters Prowl and Wheeljack are back from the dead....and to make maters worse Blaster and Soundwave kill each other in a fight both turning grey and are brought back.

Prime was the only one to turn grey. None of the others did.

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Tramp wrote:Unicron gets killed multiple times too, yet ha always comes back. Why would that be any different for Primus? Remember, they are both gods. The Last Autobot is an avatar of Primus, one of the Original 13. It was Emirate Xaaaron who died. Primus was just inhaoiting him. You can't kill a god; not permanently.

I don't remember any mention of Original 13 in the Marvel comics. I need to re-read them again.

Obviously you do. Or you could just read the Ultimate Guide because it does have all the answers. Even about things which were not yet created, like the IDW comics, and the new movie. Apparently the only thing it doesn't teach is proper use of the English language or spelling. Oh, and manners.

Shirogoshi wrote:Even though the Original 13 is a concept from the DW comics, and they aren't the same continuity as Marvel.

No it isn't. It predates DW. If memory serves, the concept of the Original 13 dates back to BotCon comics several years ago.

Yes, Tramp, because you say it's a retcon, it's a retcon. Yeesh, what a troll.

craggy wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Tramp wrote:Unicron gets killed multiple times too, yet ha always comes back. Why would that be any different for Primus? Remember, they are both gods. The Last Autobot is an avatar of Primus, one of the Original 13. It was Emirate Xaaaron who died. Primus was just inhaoiting him. You can't kill a god; not permanently.

I don't remember any mention of Original 13 in the Marvel comics. I need to re-read them again.

Obviously you do. Or you could just read the Ultimate Guide because it does have all the answers. Even about things which were not yet created, like the IDW comics, and the new movie. Apparently the only thing it doesn't teach is proper use of the English language or spelling. Oh, and manners.

LOL.. For a second I thought you were giving me lip then I finished reading the whole thread and laughed.

LOL again!

No, Shirogoshi, Not becaus I say it's a retcon. The book says it's a retcon. Hasbro says it's a retcon. The Ultimate Guide it the difinitive source book on TF continuity. IF you don't want to believe me, fine, believe the book itself.

OK, so even though you stated a few pages back it couldn't overwrite the Marvel Continuity, just because I managed to defuse your halftruths again with a passage from a comic you claimed to have read, it now can.

This seems to be an ongoing theme with your posts, Tramp. You can't make your mind up one way or the other. You absolutely have to be right to the point you contradict yourself ridiculously.

(Yeah, I thought he was mouthing off at you too, CB, til I reread the post about 3 times. lol.)

Nah, I wouldn't be like that, not when there's far easier, far more deserving targets to take the brunt of my humour.

This is what I reckon would be a day in the life of Tramp:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmXRI9u4-Sg

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Well, actually the vading to grey is only happens with extremely long-lived Cybertronians. Not only that, but Prime had vaded to grey when he passed, and they brought him back. His spark was restored to him. Ironhide was never revived. HE had taken a point-blank shot to the head by Megatron's fusion cannon.

I should have said besides Prime.....but the point I'm trying to make is that in the U.S. toon all TF's that "died" and turnd grey stayed dead,Prowl,Wheeljack,Windcharger and many more but in the Japanese Headmasters Prowl and Wheeljack are back from the dead....and to make maters worse Blaster and Soundwave kill each other in a fight both turning grey and are brought back.

Prime was the only one to turn grey. None of the others did.

Dude now vI got you!!!You'll have to admit you made a mistake!!!!!!Put the movie in and look closly.When prown dies he fades to grey and when the bodys of Wheeljack and Windcharger are puld out from the rubble they are grey.