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Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Tramp wrote:Did you read my EDIT?sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Hello Tramp are you there?I have an other question for you?
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You'll also have to admit that the Ultimate does not and CAN NOT apply to the Japanese universe's.They have completly different definations of the headmaster/targetmaster prosses and completly different historys for the same charters.
The Headmaster technology began as a simple remote control-based system that was enhanced into a binary-bonding process by the Autobot scientist, Brainstorm and his humanoid partner, Arcana, on the latter's homeowrld of Nebulon [See Nebulon]. The basic premise of the technology allows a carbon-based life form to be reformatted with transforming properties that let them form the head of a Transformer. [b]it had originally been meant to combine with the Micromaster technology [See Micromasters], with the larger robot acting as its own small Headmaster to conserve energy.
Most of the information from the Ultimate Guide was based upon Dreamwave's material. Dreamwave's G1 comics, including War Within set the standard and was used by the Ultimate Gude as the difinitive G1 continuity, with Marvel's comics as an alternate reality. If you read the Ultimate Guide much of the TF history that is in there comes directly from the DW comics.Shirogoshi wrote:But, Tramp, MTMTE isn't the Ultimate Guide. The Ultimate Guide overwrites everything, remember?
Shirogoshi wrote:Once again, Tramp:
You're also sidestepping any time I mention how he contradicted himself by saying the Marvel continuity cannot be retconned by the Ultimate Guide, yet he keeps saying it can, now that I beat his argument with the Marvel Comics, and I told him to go read issues 75-77 again, which he hasn't. You can't get much more of a troll than that.
Tramp wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You'll also have to admit that the Ultimate does not and CAN NOT apply to the Japanese universe's.They have completly different definations of the headmaster/targetmaster prosses and completly different historys for the same charters.
Actually, no they don't. According to MtMtE #8 the original plan for the headmaster rprocess was initially developed for it to be used on Micromaster robots to become the heads of larger bodies to save energy. In the US line, they adapted this for humanoids instead. In the Japanese continuties, they started with micromaster sized robots foirst, then went to humanoids. Page 32 of MtMtE #8 says—The Headmaster technology began as a simple remote control-based system that was enhanced into a binary-bonding process by the Autobot scientist, Brainstorm and his humanoid partner, Arcana, on the latter's homeowrld of Nebulon [See Nebulon]. The basic premise of the technology allows a carbon-based life form to be reformatted with transforming properties that let them form the head of a Transformer. [b]it had originally been meant to combine with the Micromaster technology [See Micromasters], with the larger robot acting as its own small Headmaster to conserve energy.
This of course originated from the Japanese versions, and was addressed in the US comics.
They applied this original process in Armada with Overload, who had a minicon who became the head of the larger body, and in Energon with Omega Supreme. Both were Headmasters who had robot Headmaster partners, not humanoids. Yes, tyey have different histories for the different characters, because they are different continuities, but they are still part of the greater TF canon multiverse.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Tramp wrote:Shirogoshi wrote:Once again, Tramp:
You're also sidestepping any time I mention how he contradicted himself by saying the Marvel continuity cannot be retconned by the Ultimate Guide, yet he keeps saying it can, now that I beat his argument with the Marvel Comics, and I told him to go read issues 75-77 again, which he hasn't. You can't get much more of a troll than that.
Shrogoshi, I have read thoise books, and it still doesn't make Primus permanently dead in Marvel's comics. gods can't permanently die. There is no complete overwrite. The event still occurs. But Primus is not gone forever. That is the key factor you are ignoring.
Tramp wrote:Shirogoshi wrote:Once again, Tramp:
You're also sidestepping any time I mention how he contradicted himself by saying the Marvel continuity cannot be retconned by the Ultimate Guide, yet he keeps saying it can, now that I beat his argument with the Marvel Comics, and I told him to go read issues 75-77 again, which he hasn't. You can't get much more of a troll than that.
Shrogoshi, I have read thoise books, and it still doesn't make Primus permanently dead in Marvel's comics. gods can't permanently die. There is no complete overwrite. The event still occurs. But Primus is not gone forever. That is the key factor you are ignoring.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Tramp wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You'll also have to admit that the Ultimate does not and CAN NOT apply to the Japanese universe's.They have completly different definations of the headmaster/targetmaster prosses and completly different historys for the same charters.
Actually, no they don't. According to MtMtE #8 the original plan for the headmaster rprocess was initially developed for it to be used on Micromaster robots to become the heads of larger bodies to save energy. In the US line, they adapted this for humanoids instead. In the Japanese continuties, they started with micromaster sized robots foirst, then went to humanoids. Page 32 of MtMtE #8 says—The Headmaster technology began as a simple remote control-based system that was enhanced into a binary-bonding process by the Autobot scientist, Brainstorm and his humanoid partner, Arcana, on the latter's homeowrld of Nebulon [See Nebulon]. The basic premise of the technology allows a carbon-based life form to be reformatted with transforming properties that let them form the head of a Transformer. [b]it had originally been meant to combine with the Micromaster technology [See Micromasters], with the larger robot acting as its own small Headmaster to conserve energy.
This of course originated from the Japanese versions, and was addressed in the US comics.
They applied this original process in Armada with Overload, who had a minicon who became the head of the larger body, and in Energon with Omega Supreme. Both were Headmasters who had robot Headmaster partners, not humanoids. Yes, tyey have different histories for the different characters, because they are different continuities, but they are still part of the greater TF canon multiverse.
I know all this....its not part of my debate....nor is it ion point.Remeer,when I asked you what continity the Japanese Toons fit? You answered that they fit in to the same one as the G1 toon continity.When I tryed to tell you that it was different you told me that I was wrong and that every thing you have ever read stated that they were in the same continity and that I was the only one that has ever pointed out any different.....and now your claim is that they ARE in different continuities.Witch one is it????
It didn't break apart. And. secondly, Unicron was also "dead" yet he still comes back in the future. You can't permanently kill Primus or Unicron. They are gods.Shirogoshi wrote:Tramp wrote:Shirogoshi wrote:Once again, Tramp:
You're also sidestepping any time I mention how he contradicted himself by saying the Marvel continuity cannot be retconned by the Ultimate Guide, yet he keeps saying it can, now that I beat his argument with the Marvel Comics, and I told him to go read issues 75-77 again, which he hasn't. You can't get much more of a troll than that.
Shrogoshi, I have read thoise books, and it still doesn't make Primus permanently dead in Marvel's comics. gods can't permanently die. There is no complete overwrite. The event still occurs. But Primus is not gone forever. That is the key factor you are ignoring.
CYBERTRON WOULDN'T HAVE STARTED BREAKING APART IF HE WASN'T DEAD! HE DID NOT GET REVIVED! God you're annoying! It wouldn't say he was dead if he wasn't dead! Seriously, you must've gotten beat up a LOT at school if you were this annoying in real life!
Tramp wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Tramp wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You'll also have to admit that the Ultimate does not and CAN NOT apply to the Japanese universe's.They have completly different definations of the headmaster/targetmaster prosses and completly different historys for the same charters.
Actually, no they don't. According to MtMtE #8 the original plan for the headmaster rprocess was initially developed for it to be used on Micromaster robots to become the heads of larger bodies to save energy. In the US line, they adapted this for humanoids instead. In the Japanese continuties, they started with micromaster sized robots foirst, then went to humanoids. Page 32 of MtMtE #8 says—The Headmaster technology began as a simple remote control-based system that was enhanced into a binary-bonding process by the Autobot scientist, Brainstorm and his humanoid partner, Arcana, on the latter's homeowrld of Nebulon [See Nebulon]. The basic premise of the technology allows a carbon-based life form to be reformatted with transforming properties that let them form the head of a Transformer. [b]it had originally been meant to combine with the Micromaster technology [See Micromasters], with the larger robot acting as its own small Headmaster to conserve energy.
This of course originated from the Japanese versions, and was addressed in the US comics.
They applied this original process in Armada with Overload, who had a minicon who became the head of the larger body, and in Energon with Omega Supreme. Both were Headmasters who had robot Headmaster partners, not humanoids. Yes, tyey have different histories for the different characters, because they are different continuities, but they are still part of the greater TF canon multiverse.
I know all this....its not part of my debate....nor is it ion point.Remeer,when I asked you what continity the Japanese Toons fit? You answered that they fit in to the same one as the G1 toon continity.When I tryed to tell you that it was different you told me that I was wrong and that every thing you have ever read stated that they were in the same continity and that I was the only one that has ever pointed out any different.....and now your claim is that they ARE in different continuities.Witch one is it????
The Japanese cartoons were meant as part of the US cartoon continuity replacing Rebirth, and the three episode "Season three" completely. It was written after the US series went off the air, otherwise, they would have used the storyline the US established. It has no connection to the Dreamwave continuity or Marvel continuity. They are connected to the cartoon continuity as well as BW-BM.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
The Ultimate Guide specifically states that they cannot permanently be destroyed. excuse mte, I meant Season four, not Season three. US Season four was only three episodes long, and the Japanese Headmansters series completely replaces them. IF the US cartoon had continued, the Japanese would have continued to follow along, translating the episodes into Japanese. They didn't start Headmasters until the cancelation of the US cartoon. three episodes into Season four.craggy wrote:but in the Ultimate Guide season 3 of the cartoon has a lot more than 3 episodes. which is it?
oh yeah, and who says that Gods can't die permanently?
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
You mean season 4 rebirth was ment to be the begining of season 4 but the point I'm trying to make is if Beast wars/machines are part of the same universe as the US G1 toon then it cant be in the same universe as the Japanese Headmasters,Masterforce,Victory and Zone......How can they be part of the same universe when they have 2 completly different origins for charters like Fortress Maximus and Scorponk?
Tramp wrote:The Ultimate Guide specifically states that they cannot permanently be destroyed. excuse mte, I meant Season four, not Season three. US Season four was only three episodes long, and the Japanese Headmansters series completely replaces them. IF the US cartoon had continued, the Japanese would have continued to follow along, translating the episodes into Japanese. They didn't start Headmasters until the cancelation of the US cartoon. three episodes into Season four.craggy wrote:but in the Ultimate Guide season 3 of the cartoon has a lot more than 3 episodes. which is it?
oh yeah, and who says that Gods can't die permanently?
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Tramp wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
You mean season 4 rebirth was ment to be the begining of season 4 but the point I'm trying to make is if Beast wars/machines are part of the same universe as the US G1 toon then it cant be in the same universe as the Japanese Headmasters,Masterforce,Victory and Zone......How can they be part of the same universe when they have 2 completly different origins for charters like Fortress Maximus and Scorponk?
Because they overwrote the three episode Season four completely as if it never happened. That three episode story was written basically to completely close-up the cartoon and end the series. It was pretty hastily written too. The Japanese simply replaced it with a better continuing story with more going on.
Tramp wrote:Well, considering that the earlier ones before RID all stemmed directly from the original US G1 cartoon which had been dubbed into Japanese, I would place them in the same continuity as that show.sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Tramp I want to ask you a question.How do the Japanese universes fit into your theroy?I'm not looking for a large debate just looking for your thought on it.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
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