The Energon Pub

And there we go again! Trying to tell a longtime member how things are run around here. Anyways, back on Topic, just a weird question: Could Unicron transfer his consciousness into another vessel like Primus did to Xaaron?

Glyph wrote:Both of you do me a favour and quit arguing over what I said or didn't say and what I know or don't know.

Just for once I'd like to be able to enjoy reading the forums and contributing to threads without getting bogged down in stupid **** like this.

Glyph, honestly, so would I.

Tramp wrote:Wrong Damolisher. That wouold be like saying that the Bantam era SW books are no longer canon because Ballanetine/DelRey now holds the license. A new company taking ove the license does not invalidate the previous material,

Not trying to get in the middle of a fight but...... A new company taking ove the license does not always invalidate the previous material but it more offen then not does.I have no knolege about the book's you sited but I can name many times that when a license changed hands all things said to be canon was thrown out the window.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Wrong Damolisher. That wouold be like saying that the Bantam era SW books are no longer canon because Ballanetine/DelRey now holds the license. A new company taking ove the license does not invalidate the previous material,

Not trying to get in the middle of a fight but...... A new company taking ove the license does not always invalidate the previous material but it more offen then not does.I have no knolege about the book's you sited but I can name many times that when a license changed hands all things said to be canon was thrown out the window.

I have never seen that happen. The example I gave is the Star Wars books. Everything that has been published under license is considered canon, unless specifically stated otherwise. This includes previously published materials under previous licensees. They go out of there way to make sure everything fits, and where things don't quite fit, they work around it or retcon it to make it fit. They don't throw anything out, and have a huge database of material.

Paramount, has it's own rules for canon regarding Star Trek. With that series, only the live-action TV shows and movies are canon. Everything else is apocrypha.
Hasbro's and Takara's policies, is that everything licensed is canon, but part of a multiverse of different continuities and alternate realities. They established the DW story arch as the main core G1 reality. The IDW reality is a complete reimagining separate from the original G1. It isn't meant to usurp the previous material, just tell a new story in another reality all its own without all of the "baggage" of the previously established canon. It has no connection to the original G1, to Beast Wars, to anything. It's a stand-alone continuity all its own.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I think that both or you guys have miss-read Glyph's post.He's not saying that Hasbro has dismised the DW history all together as if it never happened....just that they stand behind IDW because they now have the rights to tell the story.Think about it.....even 10 years from now if Marvel[or sombody else] gets the rights to do Transformers they will then be the official G1 continuity.

I didn't misread his post. According to Simon Furman himself, the IDW Infiltration/Escalation/Devastation, etc continuity is its own continuity completely separate from the preoviously established core G1 canon. It is its own universe and continuity. It doesn't replace the DW material or the material in TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide no longer the difinitive classic G1 continuity. The current story line IDW is putting out is not based directly upon the original G1 toys or their continuity. Simon Furman himself said it is a complete reimagining[/i], not meant to replace the previous material. It is its own thing separate from everything previously written or even what they at=re writing concurrently. It doesn't even have a connection to their Beast Wars title, which [b]is set in the core G1 universe, just like the original BW series was.

I was sayin that both you guy might have miss read what Glyph was saying.Not what Simon has said or anybody else.You guy were fighting over the fact that Damolisher thinks that Glyph was saying that DW stuff is nolonger reconised by hasbro.....and you saying that hasbro has said no such thing.My point is that [and if I'm wrong I'm sorry] I think that all Glyph was saying is that it is no longer the so called official G1 continuity.I understand that the IDW story is a stand on it own thing.I think you've been fighting to long with Damolisher.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I think that both or you guys have miss-read Glyph's post.He's not saying that Hasbro has dismised the DW history all together as if it never happened....just that they stand behind IDW because they now have the rights to tell the story.Think about it.....even 10 years from now if Marvel[or sombody else] gets the rights to do Transformers they will then be the official G1 continuity.

I didn't misread his post. According to Simon Furman himself, the IDW Infiltration/Escalation/Devastation, etc continuity is its own continuity completely separate from the preoviously established core G1 canon. It is its own universe and continuity. It doesn't replace the DW material or the material in TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide no longer the difinitive classic G1 continuity. The current story line IDW is putting out is not based directly upon the original G1 toys or their continuity. Simon Furman himself said it is a complete reimagining[/i], not meant to replace the previous material. It is its own thing separate from everything previously written or even what they at=re writing concurrently. It doesn't even have a connection to their Beast Wars title, which [b]is set in the core G1 universe, just like the original BW series was.

I was sayin that both you guy might have miss read what Glyph was saying.Not what Simon has said or anybody else.You guy were fighting over the fact that Damolisher thinks that Glyph was saying that DW stuff is nolonger reconised by hasbro.....and you saying that hasbro has said no such thing.My point is that [and if I'm wrong I'm sorry] I think that all Glyph was saying is that it is no longer the so called official G1 continuity.I understand that the IDW story is a stand on it own thing.I think you've been fighting to long with Damolisher.

Not by any choice of mine.

And, as I said, I know what Glyph said, and it is exactly what you think he said, and that is what is incorrect, at least according tothe most current printing of TransFormers: The Ultimate Guide. That book still maintains the DW continuity as the main core G1 continuity with the current IDW story arch as its own completely self-contained continuity separate from everything else previously or currently published. The Spotlights ate part of this continuity, but the Beast Wars material is part of established G1 coninuity.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Wrong Damolisher. That wouold be like saying that the Bantam era SW books are no longer canon because Ballanetine/DelRey now holds the license. A new company taking ove the license does not invalidate the previous material,

Not trying to get in the middle of a fight but...... A new company taking ove the license does not always invalidate the previous material but it more offen then not does.I have no knolege about the book's you sited but I can name many times that when a license changed hands all things said to be canon was thrown out the window.

I have never seen that happen. The example I gave is the Star Wars books. Everything that has been published under license is considered canon, unless specifically stated otherwise. This includes previously published materials under previous licensees. They go out of there way to make sure everything fits, and where things don't quite fit, they work around it or retcon it to make it fit. They don't throw anything out, and have a huge database of material.

Paramount, has it's own rules for canon regarding Star Trek. With that series, only the live-action TV shows and movies are canon. Everything else is apocrypha.
Hasbro's and Takara's policies, is that everything licensed is canon, but part of a multiverse of different continuities and alternate realities. They established the DW story arch as the main core G1 reality. The IDW reality is a complete reimagining separate from the original G1. It isn't meant to usurp the previous material, just tell a new story in another reality all its own without all of the "baggage" of the previously established canon. It has no connection to the original G1, to Beast Wars, to anything. It's a stand-alone continuity all its own.

Thank you.I didnt think you were talking about Star Wars. But Startrek was one of the one's I was thinking about.Every time that it changes hands al other Comic book history is removed.Even when it go's back to a publisher that had it once before.DC has had the rights twice if not 3 times and every time its a reboot.GIJoe has fallen victom to this as well with the new publisher being able to hand pick what they want in their history and what they do not.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I think that both or you guys have miss-read Glyph's post.He's not saying that Hasbro has dismised the DW history all together as if it never happened....just that they stand behind IDW because they now have the rights to tell the story.Think about it.....even 10 years from now if Marvel[or sombody else] gets the rights to do Transformers they will then be the official G1 continuity.

I didn't misread his post. According to Simon Furman himself, the IDW Infiltration/Escalation/Devastation, etc continuity is its own continuity completely separate from the preoviously established core G1 canon. It is its own universe and continuity. It doesn't replace the DW material or the material in TransFormers: the Ultimate Guide no longer the difinitive classic G1 continuity. The current story line IDW is putting out is not based directly upon the original G1 toys or their continuity. Simon Furman himself said it is a complete reimagining[/i], not meant to replace the previous material. It is its own thing separate from everything previously written or even what they at=re writing concurrently. It doesn't even have a connection to their Beast Wars title, which [b]is set in the core G1 universe, just like the original BW series was.

I was sayin that both you guy might have miss read what Glyph was saying.Not what Simon has said or anybody else.You guy were fighting over the fact that Damolisher thinks that Glyph was saying that DW stuff is nolonger reconised by hasbro.....and you saying that hasbro has said no such thing.My point is that [and if I'm wrong I'm sorry] I think that all Glyph was saying is that it is no longer the so called official G1 continuity.I understand that the IDW story is a stand on it own thing.I think you've been fighting to long with Damolisher.

Not by any choice of mine.

And, as I said, I know what Glyph said, and it is exactly what you think he said, and that is what is incorrect, at least according tothe most current printing of TransFormers: The Ultimate Guide. That book still maintains the DW continuity as the main core G1 continuity with the current IDW story arch as its own completely self-contained continuity separate from everything else previously or currently published. The Spotlights ate part of this continuity, but the Beast Wars material is part of established G1 coninuity.

To me thats only for the time being....or have you forgoten the power of the all mighty RE-CON!!!!!I would just like them to be able to finish the DW stuff and put all this to bed.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Thank you.I didnt think you were talking about Star Wars. But Startrek was one of the one's I was thinking about.Every time that it changes hands al other Comic book history is removed.Even when it go's back to a publisher that had it once before.DC has had the rights twice if not 3 times and every time its a reboot.GIJoe has fallen victom to this as well with the new publisher being able to hand pick what they want in their history and what they do not.

Yeah, the difference though, is that, as I said, Paramount doesn't consider anything but the live-action shows and movies canon at all. It is all (to use the SW term) Infinities. Not one bit has any relevance. In the books and comics, no matter how much continuity it has, it "officially" never happened in ST canon. Only the TV shows and movies officially happened.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
To me thats only for the time being....or have you forgoten the power of the all mighty RE-CON!!!!!I would just like them to be able to finish the DW stuff and put all this to bed.

I think you mean "ret-con",

Either way, IDW has stated that they would like to pick up where Dreamwave left off once the litigation is over. They only recently were able to begin reprinting previously published Dreamwave TF material, including the original War Within.

Silly question though, What does any of this have to do with Primus and Unicron? From what I have read of IDW's curent story archs, neither has any part to play in the IDW reimagining of the series at all.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
To me thats only for the time being....or have you forgoten the power of the all mighty RE-CON!!!!!I would just like them to be able to finish the DW stuff and put all this to bed.

I think you mean "ret-con",

Either way, IDW has stated that they would like to pick up where Dreamwave left off once the litigation is over. They only recently were able to begin reprinting previously published Dreamwave TF material, including the original War Within.

Silly question though, What does any of this have to do with Primus and Unicron? From what I have read of IDW's curent story archs, neither has any part to play in the IDW reimagining of the series at all.

Sorry I missed the "T"....and to tell the truth I have no idea how this fight started but keep in mind that it wouldnt have been cost afective for hasbro to tell DK books to rewrite the whole of the Ultimate Guide.Remember the first one didnt sell all to well in the first place.It's cheaper to tell them to print the same info and just ad some new updates.Not saying that its not canon just that you have to think out side the box sometimes.Witch I know your capable of after reading some of your post in an other topic.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Thank you.I didnt think you were talking about Star Wars. But Startrek was one of the one's I was thinking about.Every time that it changes hands al other Comic book history is removed.Even when it go's back to a publisher that had it once before.DC has had the rights twice if not 3 times and every time its a reboot.GIJoe has fallen victom to this as well with the new publisher being able to hand pick what they want in their history and what they do not.

Yeah, the difference though, is that, as I said, Paramount doesn't consider anything but the live-action shows and movies canon at all. It is all (to use the SW term) Infinities. Not one bit has any relevance. In the books and comics, no matter how much continuity it has, it "officially" never happened in ST canon. Only the TV shows and movies officially happened.

Even this might change....I'm not sure if you know about the new Star Trek movie being made but most likly their going to be trowing a lot of history out the window.

Yes, I am. My point is though, that Hasbro didn't rewrite the Ultimate Guide, and not simply to save money. The whole point of the guide was to establishe once and for all, a difinitive continuity for the TransFormers, particularly G1, and to tie all the pieces together, as well as explain the contradictions. That is why it includes information from all of the series and continuities (except Cybertron for some reason).

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Thank you.I didnt think you were talking about Star Wars. But Startrek was one of the one's I was thinking about.Every time that it changes hands al other Comic book history is removed.Even when it go's back to a publisher that had it once before.DC has had the rights twice if not 3 times and every time its a reboot.GIJoe has fallen victom to this as well with the new publisher being able to hand pick what they want in their history and what they do not.

Yeah, the difference though, is that, as I said, Paramount doesn't consider anything but the live-action shows and movies canon at all. It is all (to use the SW term) Infinities. Not one bit has any relevance. In the books and comics, no matter how much continuity it has, it "officially" never happened in ST canon. Only the TV shows and movies officially happened.

Even this might change....I'm not sure if you know about the new Star Trek movie being made but most likly their going to be trowing a lot of history out the window.

From what I understand of the new movie, is that it too is a reimagining. I have no knowledge of what effect this will have on ST canon, nor do I really care. I enjoy the series, but I'm not a die-hard Trekkie. I'm more partial to Star Wars.

Tramp wrote:Yes, I am. My point is though, that Hasbro didn't rewrite the Ultimate Guide, and not simply to save money. The whole point of the guide was to establishe once and for all, a difinitive continuity for the TransFormers, particularly G1, and to tie all the pieces together, as well as explain the contradictions. That is why it includes information from all of the series and continuities (except Cybertron for some reason).

Thet was the point of the first printing......I'm not so sure about the updated one.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Thank you.I didnt think you were talking about Star Wars. But Startrek was one of the one's I was thinking about.Every time that it changes hands al other Comic book history is removed.Even when it go's back to a publisher that had it once before.DC has had the rights twice if not 3 times and every time its a reboot.GIJoe has fallen victom to this as well with the new publisher being able to hand pick what they want in their history and what they do not.

Yeah, the difference though, is that, as I said, Paramount doesn't consider anything but the live-action shows and movies canon at all. It is all (to use the SW term) Infinities. Not one bit has any relevance. In the books and comics, no matter how much continuity it has, it "officially" never happened in ST canon. Only the TV shows and movies officially happened.

Even this might change....I'm not sure if you know about the new Star Trek movie being made but most likly their going to be trowing a lot of history out the window.

From what I understand of the new movie, is that it too is a reimagining. I have no knowledge of what effect this will have on ST canon, nor do I really care. I enjoy the series, but I'm not a die-hard Trekkie. I'm more partial to Star Wars.

I love Star Wars as well but I'm a trek nut.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Yes, I am. My point is though, that Hasbro didn't rewrite the Ultimate Guide, and not simply to save money. The whole point of the guide was to establishe once and for all, a difinitive continuity for the TransFormers, particularly G1, and to tie all the pieces together, as well as explain the contradictions. That is why it includes information from all of the series and continuities (except Cybertron for some reason).

Thet was the point of the first printing......I'm not so sure about the updated one.

It is still the same point. The only change that was intended was to add material about the IDW books, not change the difinitive G1 continuity.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
I love Star Wars as well but I'm a trek nut.

That's obvious. Your avatar and screen name are a dead give-away. I'm guessing you also have a full Klingon costume too, just like I have a full Jedi costume.

Either way, let's get back on topic.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Yes, I am. My point is though, that Hasbro didn't rewrite the Ultimate Guide, and not simply to save money. The whole point of the guide was to establishe once and for all, a difinitive continuity for the TransFormers, particularly G1, and to tie all the pieces together, as well as explain the contradictions. That is why it includes information from all of the series and continuities (except Cybertron for some reason).

Thet was the point of the first printing......I'm not so sure about the updated one.

It is still the same point. The only change that was intended was to add material about the IDW books, not change the difinitive G1 continuity.

Thats why I say you need to think outside the box.Now think for a sec hypathicly...........What if Hasbro wanted to say that it wasnt the difinitive G1 continuity......but saying that ment that you would have to rewrite most of the book not just add a few pages of info.Like I said it would have cost them too much money and since the first book didnt do so well in the first place its eazyer to say use the first book and just add a few things.Now I'm not saying that this is the case.Just for me I would have more fate in the fact that the DW stuff is still the difinitive G1 continuity if they had re-written the whole book and not just re-printed their earlyer stuff with a few added things.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
I love Star Wars as well but I'm a trek nut.

That's obvious. Your avatar and screen name are a dead give-away. I'm guessing you also have a full Klingon costume too, just like I have a full Jedi costume.

Either way, let's get back on topic.

Klingon and Starfleet costume.Also have Storm troopers and Jedi as well as working on a Darth Vador costume.Batman too.I've been asked to join the 501st chapter in my area.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Yes, I am. My point is though, that Hasbro didn't rewrite the Ultimate Guide, and not simply to save money. The whole point of the guide was to establishe once and for all, a difinitive continuity for the TransFormers, particularly G1, and to tie all the pieces together, as well as explain the contradictions. That is why it includes information from all of the series and continuities (except Cybertron for some reason).

Thet was the point of the first printing......I'm not so sure about the updated one.

It is still the same point. The only change that was intended was to add material about the IDW books, not change the difinitive G1 continuity.

Thats why I say you need to think outside the box.Now think for a sec hypathicly...........What if Hasbro wanted to say that it wasnt the difinitive G1 continuity......but saying that ment that you would have to rewrite most of the book not just add a few pages of info.Like I said it would have cost them too much money and since the first book didnt do so well in the first place its eazyer to say use the first book and just add a few things.Now I'm not saying that this is the case.Just for me I would have more fate in the fact that the DW stuff is still the difinitive G1 continuity if they had re-written the whole book and not just re-printed their earlyer stuff with a few added things.

Because, if that were the case, they would have rewritten the whole book. That is because there would be no point to the book if it no longer gave us the difinitive continuity. They would be foolish to publish something that they themselves didn't consider difinitive. They would be lying, and commiting false adveritising.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
I love Star Wars as well but I'm a trek nut.

That's obvious. Your avatar and screen name are a dead give-away. I'm guessing you also have a full Klingon costume too, just like I have a full Jedi costume.

Either way, let's get back on topic.

Klingon and Starfleet costume.Also have Storm troopers and Jedi as well as working on a Darth Vador costume.Batman too.I've been asked to join the 501st chapter in my area.

Cool.

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Tramp wrote:Yes, I am. My point is though, that Hasbro didn't rewrite the Ultimate Guide, and not simply to save money. The whole point of the guide was to establishe once and for all, a difinitive continuity for the TransFormers, particularly G1, and to tie all the pieces together, as well as explain the contradictions. That is why it includes information from all of the series and continuities (except Cybertron for some reason).

Thet was the point of the first printing......I'm not so sure about the updated one.

It is still the same point. The only change that was intended was to add material about the IDW books, not change the difinitive G1 continuity.

Thats why I say you need to think outside the box.Now think for a sec hypathicly...........What if Hasbro wanted to say that it wasnt the difinitive G1 continuity......but saying that ment that you would have to rewrite most of the book not just add a few pages of info.Like I said it would have cost them too much money and since the first book didnt do so well in the first place its eazyer to say use the first book and just add a few things.Now I'm not saying that this is the case.Just for me I would have more fate in the fact that the DW stuff is still the difinitive G1 continuity if they had re-written the whole book and not just re-printed their earlyer stuff with a few added things.

Because, if that were the case, they would have rewritten the whole book. That is because there would be no point to the book if it no longer gave us the difinitive continuity. They would be foolish to publish something that they themselves didn't consider difinitive. They would be lying, and commiting false adveritising.

Sure they would have.....its good bussnes....It makes them top dollor on little investment.All most every body who bought the first print is going to buy the updated one.Even me I ordered mine after you told me it came out yeaterday.And it will almost cost them nothing because when they make a deal for a book of this type they pade for all the material the first time.I'm sure that there's less then 5 pages of new material in the book.That brings them a net profit of 95% on the new printing.And its not false adveritising when your takling about a work of fictsion thats based on a toy line with a mulit-vers of history that keeps changing.There are Ultimate Guides to Superman Batman Avengers X-men and other things that are full of incorrect info.

I've been in retail the last 18 years of my life so I'm always thing of ways to make more money with little investment.