The Energon Pub

Tramp wrote:I just want to read it.

if you change your mind let me know....like I daid there extras just collecting dust

Unfortunately, I don't have the money. The downside of being freelance.

Well we could do a trade or somthing........

Unfortunately, the only thing I have to trade is that extra Ramjet, and as you know, I'm hoping to exchange that for Starscream. We'll talk more about this over PM. Let's get back to the subject.

BTW, it what TF fiction does it actually SAY Primus exists in all universes and Unicron exists in once at a time?

Eradicator wrote:BTW, it what TF fiction does it actually SAY Primus exists in all universes and Unicron exists in once at a time?

Yes, that is true. Both Primus and Unicron exist in all universes at once.

Buggawaggawha? I thought only Primus did! Ok, I need some clarification. Plus, my original question wasn't really answered.

They both exist on all planes at once, including the astral plane. Even if you "destroy" Unicron in one reality, does not destroy him in all realities, and even in that one reality, he isn't destroyed permanently. His body will eventually revive and regenerate. He is eternal, just as Primus is.

Ihn answer to your original question, he wasn't created by Primacron. He was created by the "Source".

Uh, hang on, Tramp. In the Armada comics, they DON'T exist on the same plane, since A) No reference to Primus is ever made, IIRC, and B) NO effort was made to wake Primus if he was there, only Unicron appeared in issue 18, and you'd think SOMEBODY would know SOMETHING about Primus.

Damolisher, Armada is part of the Unicron Trilogy, which ends with Cybertron, where Primus does make his apprearance. Yes, in Japan, they are completely separate, but in the US, they are part of a single over-all story.

Tramp wrote:Damolisher, Armada is part of the Unicron Trilogy, which ends with Cybertron, where Primus does make his apprearance. Yes, in Japan, they are completely separate, but in the US, they are part of a single over-all story.

I think he was talking about the Armada COMICS!!!The Armada comic's turned to Energon but never made it to Cybertron.

This is true, but it most likely would have had Dreamwave not gone bankrupt, and it would probably have been muchmore cohesive too.

Yeah, I was talking about comics, hence why I said ISSUE 18. And you don't know if it would have, you aren't psychic.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, I was talking about comics, hence why I said ISSUE 18. And you don't know if it would have, you aren't psychic.

That is why I specifically said most likely. And that is based upon their track record withn Armada becoming Energon. They were following Hasbro's lead. Thus, logically, had the story continued, it is very likely that they would have switched to Cybertron as the title, and continued with that story line through to the end.

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, I was talking about comics, hence why I said ISSUE 18. And you don't know if it would have, you aren't psychic.

That is why I specifically said most likely. And that is based upon their track record withn Armada becoming Energon. They were following Hasbro's lead. Thus, logically, had the story continued, it is very likely that they would have switched to Cybertron as the title, and continued with that story line through to the end.

Althou I agree that they would have changed to "Cybertron"
there was a lot of talk at a Dreamwave panel at a cypercon I went to that sugested that they wanted to go a different way then the show as in regaurd's to story line.But I guess we'll never know.....they just could have been blowing smoke up our a$*es so as not to give anything away.

Well, considering that they went a somewhat different direction with the Armada and Energon comics while still keeping the same basic premise, I would agree with you. The over-all premise and plot would likely have been the same, but the exact stories would likely be radically different. There would probably have been more characters too.

Jeez, can't anyone get aong in this place?

BTW, I am talking abuout the Unicron Trilogy SHOWS/CARTOONS. The onlly comic I take seriously there is Balancing act. So...? And please don't flame, or this topic'll be closed yadda yadda yadda.

Um, I'm pretty new to all this, but it sounds like what cha have here is sort of a plot hole.

Star Arrow wrote:Um, I'm pretty new to all this, but it sounds like what cha have here is sort of a plot hole.

I dont get your meanibg?

Star Arrow wrote:Um, I'm pretty new to all this, but it sounds like what cha have here is sort of a plot hole.

Yes, please explain this plot hole?

Well, I said that because you guys were crossreferencing several different things, but weren't coming to a concensus. And also, I only read the first and last pages of this dicussion. *sweatdrop*

And I also drew a parallel to my other, more familiar fandom. In both, it seems to me that every bit of fiction (comics/manga, anime/cartoons, books, creator interviews) were saying similar, but different things all at once, confusing the facts.

Then, in Eradicator's original post, he says that there are several contridictory things said in G1. That led me to believe that the whole Unicron-Primus thing is a slight plot hole. Now, to take a stab at answering his original question, I would think that yeah, Primus exists.

Star Arrow wrote:Well, I said that because you guys were crossreferencing several different things, but weren't coming to a concensus. And also, I only read the first and last pages of this dicussion. *sweatdrop*

And I also drew a parallel to my other, more familiar fandom. In both, it seems to me that every bit of fiction (comics/manga, anime/cartoons, books, creator interviews) were saying similar, but different things all at once, confusing the facts.

Then, in Eradicator's original post, he says that there are several contridictory things said in G1. That led me to believe that the whole Unicron-Primus thing is a slight plot hole. Now, to take a stab at answering his original question, I would think that yeah, Primus exists.

Ah, gotcha. It isn't really a plot hole if you take it continuity by continuity. Marvel G1, toon, Dreamwvae, IDW, they all explain the respective origins. The problem comes when you try to combine them into a single, fluent continuity. Dreamwave and Marvel can be fudged together, Dreamwave specifically made this the case when writing their stories (though some people still say there are some things that are iffy). IDW is a complete restart to G1 and still has a long way to go before we get definitive answers from them.

The toon is what causes the problems. Simply because in it, Unicron was just a really large robot created by a small scientist called Primacron. Primus never existed in the toon and the tfs were created by the Quintassons. People try to apply comic origins to the toon, causing the plot holes.

However, ZTransFormers: The Ultimate Guide filled in those plot holes with two key passages.

From The Well of All Sparks, Page 11—
Through its guardian, Alpha Trion, PRimus maintained a vigil over his "children", but his direct link was severed wnen Cybertron was invaded by armies of a marauding alien race.

From Quintessans, page 52—
The extent of the Quintessans' involvement in the creation of the TransFormers race is still largely conjecture. Certainly these cruel machinist intellects influenced the TransFormers early development and perhaos even attacked and colonized Cybertron one or more times in the past.

Simnply put, Primus actually created the TransFormers, but the Quintessans invaded and took over very early in TF history and enslaved them.

Incorrect. The cartoon clearly states that the Quintessons created all Transformers as consumer goods and military hardware.

Shirogoshi wrote:Incorrect. The cartoon clearly states that the Quintessons created all Transformers as consumer goods and military hardware.

Shirogoshi, the passages I quoted are directly from the TransFormers: The Ultimate Guide, which is the difinitive record of TF continuity. The G1 cartoon has many conflicting reports of their origins among other things. It isn't very cohesive. So, no, the Quintessans did not truely create the TransFomrers, though they did have a very strong influence in their development and did enslave the early TransFormers. Nor does the cartoon clearly state that the Quintessans created the TransFormers, it simply suggests it. Most of the early TF history, partiicularly in the cartoon, is filled with contradictions and gaps. Not even the TransFormers themselves know their true history. They do know for a time, the Quintessans ruled and split the TransFormers into two lines, a military line and a service line. We also know that the TransFormers revolted and drove the Quintessans off Cybertron. That does not mean that the Quintessans created the TransFormers. They simply interfered with their natural development, not once, but at least twice.