The Energon Pub

guess we're going to need more disposible products for these vast stores of wealth that people carry.

*Goes and begins jotting down plans for body armorment upgradable equipment.*

Caelus wrote:I think you overestimate the maliciousness of the players. If anything, it's that the 90% of the players who don't post here (and therefore probably don't care) have no motivation to go through the trouble of selling all of their excess weapons back. You only get back a small fraction of what you paid, and you only have three things to do with that money - gamble, buy armor, and... buy more weapons!

Perhaps. But there're hundreds and thousands of unused weapons in store no-one wishes to buy, and that's a fact... And there're "PRISED" weapons like DoI or BB that aren't in stock and that's a fact too... And there's nobody except me who wishes to have less bad weapons and more good weapons for trade like I proposed, and that's a fact three!!!

Why? I couldn't find an answer other than the maliciousness of the players. If you can, I'd be glad to hear it.

Bluebullet wrote:I agree with the need for weapons. I'm a new player, and I kept getting my butt kicked until someone finally sold 2 x-ray lasers and I bought the only one I could. I'm still getting my butt kicked by shotguns, vibro-axes, and energon crossbows, though. I can't even hang out in the arena anymore! I'd at least like a restock so I could save up for a better weapon.

Words of wisdom: X-ray lasers suck, period.

shockwaveuk wrote:Why not scrap the weapons shop and have a standard weapon given to all TF when they are created, these can't be sold but could be unequipped for brawlers. You wouldn't have to buy new weapons but the one weapon could be upgraded indefinitely at cost, better upgrades would be made available with FP stats as armour is with rank.

I like that idea. The alt-mode could then determine what type weapon is given ex. Tank alts get a cannon, Animals get fangs, etc.

Thanatos Prime wrote:

shockwaveuk wrote:Why not scrap the weapons shop and have a standard weapon given to all TF when they are created, these can't be sold but could be unequipped for brawlers. You wouldn't have to buy new weapons but the one weapon could be upgraded indefinitely at cost, better upgrades would be made available with FP stats as armour is with rank.

I like that idea. The alt-mode could then determine what type weapon is given ex. Tank alts get a cannon, Animals get fangs, etc.

That could work. I was just saying though that everyone starts off with a basic weapon, FP would open up several upgrades per stat with cost of upgrade determining the quality of the upgrade. That way we wouldn't have all those useless weapons because the weapon would be only as good as the best upgrades you can aford both in xp and E.

Words of wisdom: X-ray lasers suck, period

Just so you know X-ray lasers don't suck when your lvl 0
They're a pretty good leg up when your just starting out and want to get those first couple of tech points faster than with a Gun or bare hands.

Alpha Strike wrote:if my faulty memory serves correctly, which it typically doesn't, this issue of out of weapon stock is going to be addressed relatively in time. The largest problem with the weapon system now, at least in terms of how weapon stocks go and how they are bought, is that people buy and buy and don't sell back. Meaning there are people out there that have ten dols, twenty Battle Blades, hell there are some that have the original Non Recharge Swords. I am fairly sure that this problem will resolved two fold, through a similar mission set up to armor and a storage locker with limited space.

But remember my memory is faulty and can not be taken to seriously.

surely u cant b serious

10 disruptors just sold - I quit.

ungodlike wrote:10 disruptors just sold - I quit.

why?

Alpha Strike wrote:if my faulty memory serves correctly, which it typically doesn't, this issue of out of weapon stock is going to be addressed relatively in time. The largest problem with the weapon system now, at least in terms of how weapon stocks go and how they are bought, is that people buy and buy and don't sell back. Meaning there are people out there that have ten dols, twenty Battle Blades, hell there are some that have the original Non Recharge Swords. I am fairly sure that this problem will resolved two fold, through a similar mission set up to armor and a storage locker with limited space.

But remember my memory is faulty and can not be taken to seriously.

Fish oil or fruit like strawberrys/blueberrys helps memory apparently Alpha Strike!

I'd love to see something like this come in - if only because I've passed this site onto a load of mates and so far only my boss has kept playing. Most of the others have whinged that the X-Ray lasers are out of stock.

I also like shockwaveuk's idea about 1 customisable weapon per TF but that strikes me as a V2 sugestion.

Maybe we should start a 2nd thread about v2 sugestions again as I'd like to keep this thread about helping new players with what we've got now.

Anyway to those who've sold spare weapons already - THANK YOU!

DISCHARGE wrote:Words of wisdom: X-ray lasers suck, period

Just so you know X-ray lasers don't suck when your lvl 0
They're a pretty good leg up when your just starting out and want to get those first couple of tech points faster than with a Gun or bare hands.

Untrue, you're often better off upgrading a different stat like speed, strength or courage and going in bare knuckles. X-ray laser takes more speed than it's worth at level zero.

Basically if you have enough speed to use an X-ray laser, you probably don't need it and can afford something better.

shockwaveuk wrote:That could work. I was just saying though that everyone starts off with a basic weapon, FP would open up several upgrades per stat with cost of upgrade determining the quality of the upgrade. That way we wouldn't have all those useless weapons because the weapon would be only as good as the best upgrades you can aford both in xp and E.

Yeah, exactly. What I was saying is that the upgrades would be different depending on the type of alt your bot has selected. It would provide greater variation between types of alt modes, as tactics wouldn't be the only thing exclusive to that particular alt, weapons would be too.

Thanatos Prime wrote:

DISCHARGE wrote:Words of wisdom: X-ray lasers suck, period

Just so you know X-ray lasers don't suck when your lvl 0
They're a pretty good leg up when your just starting out and want to get those first couple of tech points faster than with a Gun or bare hands.

Untrue, you're often better off upgrading a different stat like speed, strength or courage and going in bare knuckles. X-ray laser takes more speed than it's worth at level zero.

Basically if you have enough speed to use an X-ray laser, you probably don't need it and can afford something better.

er no...

all weapons and unarmed attacks have the same accuracy. accuracy is worked out on comparative speeds alone,it doesn't matter if it's a fist, foot, or a battle blade, it's just not factored in,

and the x ray does damage comparable to 2 str brawling.

EDIT: and i like shockwave's idea ALOT better than degrading weapons perhaps make it so that you need at least 1 point in fp or to have access to the weapon and then each additional point in FP or skill allows you to add 0.1 increases in recharge time minimum damage, maximum damage or accuracy.

perhaps you could even go as far as to work in a way that you could decrease each factor by 0.1 so as to add that o.1 to something else say the base weapon has a minimum raw damage of 15 % you choose to lower that by a factoe of 0.1 so as to increase (well decrease really)the recharge time by the same ammount.

course each fiddle would require some energon and expertise, perhaps for version 2 certain upgrades would be capped unless your faction/sector has access to certian technologies/resources/locations

shockwaveuk wrote:

Thanatos Prime wrote:

shockwaveuk wrote:Why not scrap the weapons shop and have a standard weapon given to all TF when they are created, these can't be sold but could be unequipped for brawlers. You wouldn't have to buy new weapons but the one weapon could be upgraded indefinitely at cost, better upgrades would be made available with FP stats as armour is with rank.

I like that idea. The alt-mode could then determine what type weapon is given ex. Tank alts get a cannon, Animals get fangs, etc.

That could work. I was just saying though that everyone starts off with a basic weapon, FP would open up several upgrades per stat with cost of upgrade determining the quality of the upgrade. That way we wouldn't have all those useless weapons because the weapon would be only as good as the best upgrades you can aford both in xp and E.

I like this idea too.

I like shockwave's idea, but not as a replacment, but in tandem with the current system/weapon degrading/what ever. A lot of tfs have a hand weapon, and their alt mode weapon. maybe there could be a tactic to unlock using the altmode weapon in robot mode (a la A Megs and his big gun). It just strikes me that this game could do with having the ability to use more than one weapon.

There's a way to have the versatility of current weapon system in shockwave's variant.

Close Combat Weapons, for example

Strength 1
Combat Knife - No recharge - Light to moderate damage
Sword - Short recharge - Light to heavy damage
Mace - Long recharge - Light to very heavy damage

Strength 2
Rasor Claws - No recharge - Moderate to heavy damage
...
and so on.

Of course, weapon's installation must require time and energon - much like armor's. And this can (and better be) implemented together with weapons acquire/produce missions.

But that's all for V2, not before!!!



For now, I still suggest (and, even more, insist) on implementing the automated script that destroys a number of the unused weapons from stock and creates an equal number of weapons which are out of stock. Thus, the total number of weapons would remain the same.

Why don't anybody support this feature???

Elcor wrote:Why don't anybody support this feature???

The concern is that this way, everything sitting idle will eventually be converted into either Battleblades or Dol's over time, removing what little variety there is left.

Why not just 'invent' a new low-mid level weapon and allow us to pick them up in specific misisons, replacing some of the crap ones that no one uses?

Shockwaves idea for an individuals custom weapon is great though, ill +1 the hell out of that.

Psychout wrote:Why not just 'invent' a new low-mid level weapon and allow us to pick them up in specific misisons, replacing some of the crap ones that no one uses?

Yeah that'd be cool, winners would each get one and those who don't want to keep them could always sell them for the energon. Newbies could just keep joining those missions until they win a weapon.

Psychout wrote:

Elcor wrote:Why don't anybody support this feature???

The concern is that this way, everything sitting idle will eventually be converted into either Battleblades or Dol's over time, removing what little variety there is left.

And what bothers you with that???

If BBs or Dols are plain better, it's only proper that everybody should be able to have them, not only those who "first came and were served first".

And, by the way, if it happens, it'd be the first argument to bring V2 sooner.

As of now, it certainly seems to me that the proud owners of prized weapons (excluding myself, btw - I've got enough of what I need, really: 6 BB, 6 Dol, 6 XRay) wish for weapon system to stay as it is so they can slay more noobs equipped with low-grade weapons.

And that disgusts me, to say the truth. Disgusts so that not once nor twice I've considered exiting.

Elcor wrote:I've got enough of what I need, really: 6 BB, 6 Dol, 6 XRay.

Hoarder!

Elcor wrote:

Psychout wrote:

Elcor wrote:Why don't anybody support this feature???

The concern is that this way, everything sitting idle will eventually be converted into either Battleblades or Dol's over time, removing what little variety there is left.

And what bothers you with that???

If BBs or Dols are plain better, it's only proper that everybody should be able to have them, not only those who "first came and were served first".

It takes the fun out of the game more variety more chances at finding a way around other opponents set up rather than trying to counter the uber weapon of the moment. As for BB's and Dol's being better its been mentioned loads of times they are just overpowered not better coupled with high strength it makes for a painful experience for the mech on the end of it

Alpha Strike wrote:

shockwaveuk wrote:

Alpha Strike wrote:if my faulty memory serves correctly, which it typically doesn't, this issue of out of weapon stock is going to be addressed relatively in time. The largest problem with the weapon system now, at least in terms of how weapon stocks go and how they are bought, is that people buy and buy and don't sell back. Meaning there are people out there that have ten dols, twenty Battle Blades, hell there are some that have the original Non Recharge Swords. I am fairly sure that this problem will resolved two fold, through a similar mission set up to armor and a storage locker with limited space.

But remember my memory is faulty and can not be taken to seriously.

I still like my idea, it also solves the weapon strengths problem too.

well not exactly. Weapons are abit tricky when it comes to their strength. They deal in percents not hit points or damage points. Thusly if you get hit with something it takes a percent out yer hide. If you have armor or endurance then you can block a small fragment of the initial damage percent but you still get hit pretty hard. To solve the weapon strength problem the game will have to be set onto a points system. Meaning, hit points and damage points with the two defense boosters actually shielding against damage, via armor, or increasing HP via Endurance increases. Weapons would have to built around various types, melee weapons would have to be able to be able to act like melee weapons... For example if one mech is armed with a melee and his opponent is armed with a melee, then technically those two could block and parry one another, Range v Range can't really block but it can detonate though even that causes minor damage. Melee v Range becomes the fun deal, which I'll let people's imagination soar over.

I still think that the percent thing is just a different way of representing "hit points", essentially, every bot in this game has 100 hp (100%)...

I mean I do the same damage to an unarmored L5 as I do to an unarmored L3, and take the same damage from an L3 with BBs and 8 str as a L5 with BBs and 8 str...

Now, some thoughts:

A: degrading weapons - if you don't use them (storage), then they're considered "just sitting there", and are probably going to rust / ruin / get stolen in a raid on your base, so degredation fits them quite nicely. Meanwhile, active weapons, ie, those actually on a TF, will not wear because they get the proper maintenance / repaired by the CR chamber...

B: weapon becoming an integral portion of the bot: if the user is allowed X many points to "buy" accuracy, damage ranges, etc. (more points available via firepower / skill), that allows the user the option of having an integrated high-accuracy low damage or high damage inaccurate weapon, instead of having to decipher what each weapon does in the field...

Elcor wrote:As of now, it certainly seems to me that the proud owners of prized weapons (excluding myself, btw - I've got enough of what I need, really: 6 BB, 6 Dol, 6 XRay) wish for weapon system to stay as it is so they can slay more noobs equipped with low-grade weapons.

And that disgusts me, to say the truth. Disgusts so that not once nor twice I've considered exiting.

well thank you for insulting me, ignore that i'm one of the most verbose advocates for balancing the weapons, forget that once you reach level 5 slaying a newb is a waste of time becuase the xp is so shite that you have to slaughter 16 of them to get your base xp, and nevermind that i regularly keep an eye on the weapon shop so that if a brokenly good weapon becomes available i can horde it for one of the list of new and low levels who would quite like it.

if you don't like the game, leave.

the problem with your system is that some of us like to experiment, and occisionally we'd like to have a spare weapon, perhaps we're doing some sort of research thing to work out the recharge times of every weapon, we don't want to have to worry about our characterful weapons being destroyed in our stockpiles while we do the research. or perhaps we're just holding on to a quantity of weapons so that a friend whose currently a bit energon short can buy them at a later date.

Delta Supreme wrote:B: weapon becoming an integral portion of the bot: if the user is allowed X many points to "buy" accuracy, damage ranges, etc. (more points available via firepower / skill), that allows the user the option of having an integrated high-accuracy low damage or high damage inaccurate weapon, instead of having to decipher what each weapon does in the field...

Nice moves DS.
It also adds to what stats can do what wihtin the game; e.g. FP for a more damaging shot, Skill for a better sniping range, Strength for a heavier payload and Int for more 'specific' functions... i have doubt that there are others.

Hey, i think we may have finally found a use for Turbomagnus' Swindle thread! Upgrade suggestions...

shockwaveuk wrote:

Elcor wrote:I've got enough of what I need, really: 6 BB, 6 Dol, 6 XRay.

Hoarder!

Something like that. Do you know how much time it cost me to hunt for weapons, to grab them the moment they appear on sale? Have to admit, though, that it was not too hard as in those times there was a stock of about 20 BBs and I had only to hunt for Dols and XRays.

I don't wish for anybody else to have such painful experience, though. It's a part of the game, sure, but it's the part we'd better do without.

By the way, as soon as this alt hunt is over, I'm going to level up 6 my lvl 0s to lvl 1, and sell all their XRays. Then my stash will be just 12 weapons - one for each of my bots. Would you call it a hoard, then?

Elcor wrote:By the way, as soon as this alt hunt is over, I'm going to level up 6 my lvl 0s to lvl 1, and sell all their XRays. Then my stash will be just 12 weapons - one for each of my bots. Would you call it a hoard, then?

No Hoarder, if you were to sell your hoard it would no longer be a hoard. You have currently not sold your hoard which means it is still considered a hoard and therefore makes you a HOARDER.

Tammuz wrote:

Elcor wrote:As of now, it certainly seems to me that the proud owners of prized weapons (excluding myself, btw - I've got enough of what I need, really: 6 BB, 6 Dol, 6 XRay) wish for weapon system to stay as it is so they can slay more noobs equipped with low-grade weapons.

And that disgusts me, to say the truth. Disgusts so that not once nor twice I've considered exiting.

well thank you for insulting me, ignore that i'm one of the most verbose advocates for balancing the weapons, forget that once you reach level 5 slaying a newb is a waste of time becuase the xp is so shite that you have to slaughter 16 of them to get your base xp, and nevermind that i regularly keep an eye on the weapon shop so that if a brokenly good weapon becomes available i can horde it for one of the list of new and low levels who would quite like it.

if you don't like the game, leave.

the problem with your system is that some of us like to experiment, and occisionally we'd like to have a spare weapon, perhaps we're doing some sort of research thing to work out the recharge times of every weapon, we don't want to have to worry about our characterful weapons being destroyed in our stockpiles while we do the research. or perhaps we're just holding on to a quantity of weapons so that a friend whose currently a bit energon short can buy them at a later date.

Well excuse me!!!

But how does the presence of ALL kinds of weapons in free trade, not only the low-level ones, hampers your ability to do what you've told above??? I can't see that, and I'd like an explanation, really.

I repeat - I DO NOT propose to touch anybody's weapon stash, and I DO NOT propose to have the total number of weapons increased!!! What I ask for is to have LESS weapons that nobody wants and MORE weapons that everybody wants!!!

After all, if we'd have a free market, like in reality, the producers of Slings would surely switch to making XRays as they sells and Slings don't.

I don't wish to insult or accuse anybody of maliciousness, really! I'd TRULY like to hear another explanation for the facts I've stated. And what depresses me is that I plainly CAN'T find any other explanation than the wish to have an advantage.

And, by the way, if my system would be implemented, you WOULDN'T have to hoard weapons for your friends, for there will ALWAYS be plenty of EVERY weapon available!!! You'd only have to advise them what to buy.

Last, but not the least. There are several resons I haven't left:
First of all, however funny could it seem, it's a loyalty to Autobots cause. Not once nor twice my bots were the ones whose presence turned defeat into victory in missions (and that is, I'm sure, what everybody feels in the game).
Second, there's a belief that there will be a V2, where all wrongs shall be addressed.
And third, I'm a game designer, and I really like to see yet another multiplayer game in its creation and progress.

That's my reasons.
What about yours?