The Energon Pub

Riotflea wrote:

beastwars was not G1, but I liked it.

Yes it was. And damn popular, as a result.

again, from a completely objective stand point, they could have done these designs in a completely different way and still have them look realistic.
I am not the type of person who is going to swallow this trash just because it looks "realistic". I know better.

Indeed. The idea that they COULDN'T have come out of the wood chipper looking better than these is downright insulting.

in the transformers universe, these were not the worst designs, but certainly not the best, in fact, probably very low on the ladder. maybe one step above beast machine toys.

Ew. I never made that connection... for some reason. But yeah, I see it.

Both of you, I QFT.

Even though I grew up with Transformers and went into the movie knowing I loved them, I had the advantage of having not watched or read anything about the series in so many years that I didn't remember how simplified the old Transformers looked, and was able to look at both versions with equal amounts of "eh? How's that work?" And I have to say that the way the G1 Transformers were constructed, as great as they were, just wouldn't have worked as well for the movie. their joints and things didn't have as much mobility, and they were drawn that way because in cartoons and comic books, most often you can't go into the fine details that they did in the movie. In a way, you can almost look at it as the same designs (except for the ones that got changed to completely different car models) just in different media. SO instead of drawing every single wire and gear and pipe in the legs and torsos if you were transferring the movie to a hand-drawn media, you could draw a long trunk for a leg. You just have to go with what you can work with, and if they can make the complex, realistic, detailed Transformers in the movies, I think it's best that they did, because it would have just looked strange to have them be the way they were in the cartoons and comic books.

Of course, that's just my opinion, and you're welcome to take it or leave it as you like. *shrugs* That's the thing with stuff like this, you're never going to be able to convince someone that you're right and they're wrong, so you just have to be happy with your own opinion.

My thought of the designs... they are neat, they are interesting but I don't like them much.

Now first of all do not start saying I said the movie sucked because it wasn't G1. What I am saying is just to make a bit of a point and Yes, I have movie toys.

The Masterpiece series of Transformers is pretty awesome. They transform like the original cartoon characters and still look like the vehicle they are supposed to be.

I concure that the alt modes for the Movie characters were far too flashy. The idea to hide in plain sight is cool but to have something that is very different will draw attention. Cars like that are on the road will past almost below notice. They are common and who cares; a good disguise there.

Even if the truck was a long nose truck, it did not have to be flashy. There are enough dusty old long noses driving around that would pass under the radar. With that said, I live within sight of a major freeway and I occasionally see a transport at night with enough lights to start to want to sing Christmas songs; it gets noticed.

The Autobot characters were over the top where alt mode design comes in and compare a convoy of odd, unusual or flashy vehicles and a convoy of ordinary trucks and cars, which one will pass without so much as a hmm?

As for ratchet, I do not entirely feel he was classified as flashy. Lime green yes, but emergency vehicles are meant to get noticed. So unless they have their flashers going, they are likely to be cautiously ignored.

Going on with the Decepticon Alt design.

Starscream as an F-22 was fitting. He blended in very well...perhaps TOO well. He was definitely a robot in disguise and blended in beautifully with the human jets. I am torn on the desire to have something a bit more noticeable on him in order to tell him apart.

Blackout as a Helicopter was neat for the same reasons above as are the other Decepticons. They blended in well without being obviously different. Now with a tank rolling into the city I would be raising an eyebrow...that is unusual activity.

So as far as blending in and being beneath notice, the autobots seem to fail that way. As for the robot modes....I'll leave that alone. That's been beaten to death.

Sunstar wrote:My thought of the designs... they are neat, they are interesting but I don't like them much.

Now first of all do not start saying I said the movie sucked because it wasn't G1. What I am saying is just to make a bit of a point and Yes, I have movie toys.

The Masterpiece series of Transformers is pretty awesome. They transform like the original cartoon characters and still look like the vehicle they are supposed to be.

I concure that the alt modes for the Movie characters were far too flashy. The idea to hide in plain sight is cool but to have something that is very different will draw attention. Cars like that are on the road will past almost below notice. They are common and who cares; a good disguise there.

Even if the truck was a long nose truck, it did not have to be flashy. There are enough dusty old long noses driving around that would pass under the radar. With that said, I live within sight of a major freeway and I occasionally see a transport at night with enough lights to start to want to sing Christmas songs; it gets noticed.

The Autobot characters were over the top where alt mode design comes in and compare a convoy of odd, unusual or flashy vehicles and a convoy of ordinary trucks and cars, which one will pass without so much as a hmm?

As for ratchet, I do not entirely feel he was classified as flashy. Lime green yes, but emergency vehicles are meant to get noticed. So unless they have their flashers going, they are likely to be cautiously ignored.

Going on with the Decepticon Alt design.

Starscream as an F-22 was fitting. He blended in very well...perhaps TOO well. He was definitely a robot in disguise and blended in beautifully with the human jets. I am torn on the desire to have something a bit more noticeable on him in order to tell him apart.

Blackout as a Helicopter was neat for the same reasons above as are the other Decepticons. They blended in well without being obviously different. Now with a tank rolling into the city I would be raising an eyebrow...that is unusual activity.

So as far as blending in and being beneath notice, the autobots seem to fail that way. As for the robot modes....I'll leave that alone. That's been beaten to death.

Actually, I think that's part of what the Decepticons were going for: blending in TOO well. The Autobots are just trying to blend in with the people around them, but they aren't that uptight about it, while the Decepticons were trying to blend in with Military and Government agencies, which means they had to be SUPER stealthy ninjas! lol But yeah, I couldn't help, when you saw the Autobot convoy headed towards Bumblebee and the hoover dam, but think "God, it must have been nice to be on this movie set and get to drive all these HOT vehicles!!!!!" >_> Yeah, that's got to get them noticed. rofl

roy_flagg00 wrote:See folks, this is what happens when you sell out to a car company. They make you pick whack-ass designs for your characters to help sell their products, to hell with the design philosophy. The idea was not "hey lets make jazz a pontiac solstice!", someone from GM walked in and said "we want to sell this. Make one of your characters this car or we pull our support"
go read gijoe/transformers (the post wwII based one) to find some CRAZY dope designs. Then come back and tell me that bayformers are the only way it can be done.

Here is what I read all over the place. This movie was nothing but a commercial. GMC commercial,product placement,commercial blah,blah commercial. The plot in this movie was garbage,not geewun. Me no likey the looky of big bots. whaa!!

I hear you I feel your pain I do,but I also think people that are whining about no geewun designs and the rest. Completely have their own visions of geewun. Oh what a world it would be to live in. Geewun wasnt a 22 min COMMERCIAL for a certain toy company....No. It had the best plots ever. I think it won the Best ever plot for a 22min commercial ever in the history of ever!!!(that is a great award) I watched a couple of geewun CARTOONS the other day with my little ones they liked it. I thought how did I watch this?.Please dont come after me for that last statement....Ihave a gun....so what if it transformers.

I guess what I am trying to say is not to cry about what could have been. You have nostalgia in your eyes. Thats not a bad thing. I have it too, and I love it. Just dont let it block your view now. Enjoy our hobby and its popularity right now. It will be just for us again in the future. Let the rest of the world enjoy what we have known all along..... TRANSFORMERS Kick ass!!!!

osiricon wrote:
Here is what I read all over the place. This movie was nothing but a commercial. GMC commercial,product placement,commercial blah,blah commercial. The plot in this movie was garbage,not G1. Me no likey the looky of big bots. whaa!!

First of all, some of the product placement was rather...obvious at times. Other times it was not so noticable. Even my Husband commented on it.

The automatic association with dislike to it not being G1 is getting very irksome. It was good action, wicked effects but the story was disjointed, pointless or simply not there. As I said in my "review" of the movie, that is very G1...not having a plot or big plotholes

As for the big bots...I didn't care for them, but then again I do not like cars and trucks. Even more so, I do not like cars or trucks that are over the top. Military vehicles were great, awesome and cool.

My point is, and I cannot change your view, nor do I want to. Just because folk do not care for it, does not automatically mean it is because it was not G1. My husband is NOT a transformers fan. He enjoys movies, he loves CG and good fast action. He was not impressed with this movie. He said there were times when the scenes were not needed (Going to that hacker) because it did not seem to foward the plot or give any useful information. He said it is fun but had a lot of issues.

I think the only reason I like Transformers is that I like Jets and I like Starscream.

osiricon wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote:See folks, this is what happens when you sell out to a car company. They make you pick whack-ass designs for your characters to help sell their products, to hell with the design philosophy. The idea was not "hey lets make jazz a pontiac solstice!", someone from GM walked in and said "we want to sell this. Make one of your characters this car or we pull our support"
go read gijoe/transformers (the post wwII based one) to find some CRAZY dope designs. Then come back and tell me that bayformers are the only way it can be done.

Here is what I read all over the place. This movie was nothing but a commercial. GMC commercial,product placement,commercial blah,blah commercial. The plot in this movie was garbage,not geewun. Me no likey the looky of big bots. whaa!!

I hear you I feel your pain I do,but I also think people that are whining about no geewun designs and the rest. Completely have their own visions of geewun. Oh what a world it would be to live in. Geewun wasnt a 22 min COMMERCIAL for a certain toy company....No. It had the best plots ever. I think it won the Best ever plot for a 22min commercial ever in the history of ever!!!(that is a great award) I watched a couple of geewun CARTOONS the other day with my little ones they liked it. I thought how did I watch this?.Please dont come after me for that last statement....Ihave a gun....so what if it transformers.

I guess what I am trying to say is not to cry about what could have been. You have nostalgia in your eyes. Thats not a bad thing. I have it too, and I love it. Just dont let it block your view now. Enjoy our hobby and its popularity right now. It will be just for us again in the future. Let the rest of the world enjoy what we have known all along..... TRANSFORMERS Kick ass!!!!

please explain to me where in what you quoted did I complain about the fact that the designs were not g1.
Really.

I could not have made it more clear.
I will say it again.
It does not have to be G1, it just should not suck.
why could bumblebee not have been a taxicab?
why could jazz not have been a porsche?
why could ratchet not have been a regular old van?
why could ironhide not have been a toyota tundra?
why could baricade not have been a dodge charger (which police actually do drive)?

I am not saying that these are the best ideas, but they could have been possible if GMC did not have a lock on which cars would be in the movie.
If the designers could have chosen any car they wanted, the designs might have come out better.
Also, I think the movie would have been much better if the autobots had chosen designs that did not COMPLETELY stick out.
ROBOTS IN DISGUISE, remember, not PIMP MY TRANSFORMER.
The beatdown version of bumblebee was the only believable autobot alt mode. who would think that that car was a transformer right?
My taxi idea comes from the fact that there are so many cabs in metro areas that he would have been in PERFECT disguise.
this would only have required a slight change in the plotto be possible.

By the way, in the preceding comments, I DID NOT ONCE MENTION G1.
Please remember that if you would lie to respond to this brief rant.
(sponsored by mountaindewimus, he's so bad ass he shoots soda cans at people )

My comment was not that YOU said geewun. I said this is what I keep reading. I was including your comment and the comments of others. OTHERS being the ones who said geewun

Yarrr, I disagree. The vehicles were good choices. I see mini vans and bugs all the time, I don't see those fancy cars very often. I am glad they didn't go the route of the *family* types of cars. I look at that chevy autobots game and while those *normal* familylike cars look somewhat neat as Transformers, they don't do it for me.

Anyways, this movie was expensive. GM won the bid to have their cars used. Bay himself said that he saved about 3mil by choosing the solstice instead of something else for Jazz, even though he didnt like the size of the solstice (I assume a porche, but maybe something else)

Besides, with how they bots were designed, their robot forms would still look quite similar, because of all the shards and bits hanging out.

briggs wrote:Yarrr, I disagree. The vehicles were good choices. I see mini vans and bugs all the time, I don't see those fancy cars very often. I am glad they didn't go the route of the *family* types of cars. I look at that chevy autobots game and while those *normal* familylike cars look somewhat neat as Transformers, they don't do it for me.

Anyways, this movie was expensive. GM won the bid to have their cars used. Bay himself said that he saved about 3mil by choosing the solstice instead of something else for Jazz, even though he didnt like the size of the solstice (I assume a porche, but maybe something else)

Besides, with how they bots were designed, their robot forms would still look quite similar, because of all the shards and bits hanging out.

you don't see ferrari, lamborgini, or mently that much either.
or nsx or skyline.
that is not a valid argument for choosing alt modes.
you don't see bi-planes or sherman tanks that much either, but they did not choose those as alt modes for the decepticons. With millions of cars to choose from, the deigners were limited to probably about 10-20. that made a huge impact in the design process.
As for the money, I would rather they not make a part two if money is going to be such a main factor in the decision making process. If you thought the product placement was bad in this one, you have seen nothing yet.the designs will be worse as well. I will bet that we see jaz resurected as which ever new model GMC is trying to sell two or three years down the line.

i meant bentley

And it's a wonder that the Transformers fandom has the reputation of having some of the biggest bunch of whiners out there....

The chances of finding alt form vehicles that even 40 or 50% of Transformers fans would agree with is nearly 0. So instead of taking a chance with vehicles that are boring and don't draw in the people to watch the movie, they decided to choose vehicles that people would be excited to see. It's not like all of the original Transformers alt forms were all that common either.

Tell you what, when YOU get the money together to make a movie that you can guarentee to appeal to fans and non-fans alike using Honda Civics and beaten up pickups, then go ahead and do what you like.

Autobobby1 wrote:So you're saying that G1 is realistic because they have human faces and regular hands and that the movie looks cartoonish because it looks different? Wow, you sure are a Geewunner. I am SICK of people like you who don't like the movie because of the designs.

Translation:
"HAI GUYZ I DDUNT REED DIS FRED, SPESHULLY NOT TEH PERTS WERE PPL SED DEY DDIUNT WONT A G1 MOVEH, BURT INSTED KWESHTUNED TEH RELISEM OF TEH NU DESINES, SO IMMA JUST HURL M'SELF IN AND FLAEM PPL FOR BEEN G-WUINNERz!!!111DURDURDUR"

roy_flagg00 wrote:See folks, this is what happens when you sell out to a car company.

Dear sir, there was no selling out. This is a business. They received multiple vehicles to do with as they wish, to make the movie. Perhaps didnt even have to pay for them? Who knows. We do know Bay said he saved 3mil on his budget by making Jazz a solstice, instead of something else. 3mil, that's quite a bit. This is abuot money, it's a business.

And I'm sure GM wouldnt have jumped on this opportunity and won the bid to be part of this movie, if Bay said "Ok, listen guys, we only want vans and 4 doors from your line for the characters for this movie". No, I think it makes more sense that GM said "listen, We'd like you to use the camaro, hummer, etc, so we can make money!" Makes much more sense.

oh my god, if Ironhide was a minivan and bumbelbee was a bug or coupe, i think I'd cry. I'd still see it, still love it, but I'd be reminde dof how boring and sissy like their vehicle modes were.

Atleast it's fun to watch a yellow camaro ripping down a freeway, instead of seeing a goofy bug doing it.

And the realism had to do with the bots, didnt matter what their alt modes were.

briggs wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote:See folks, this is what happens when you sell out to a car company.

Dear sir, there was no selling out. This is a business. They received multiple vehicles to do with as they wish, to make the movie. Perhaps didnt even have to pay for them? Who knows. We do know Bay said he saved 3mil on his budget by making Jazz a solstice, instead of something else. 3mil, that's quite a bit. This is abuot money, it's a business.

And I'm sure GM wouldnt have jumped on this opportunity and won the bid to be part of this movie, if Bay said "Ok, listen guys, we only want vans and 4 doors from your line for the characters for this movie". No, I think it makes more sense that GM said "listen, We'd like you to use the camaro, hummer, etc, so we can make money!" Makes much more sense.

oh my god, if Ironhide was a minivan and bumbelbee was a bug or coupe, i think I'd cry. I'd still see it, still love it, but I'd be reminded of how boring and sissy like their vehicle modes were.

Atleast it's fun to watch a yellow camaro ripping down a freeway, instead of seeing a goofy bug doing it.
And the realism had to do with the bots, didnt matter what their alt modes were.

Where I have bolded is a comment that made me realize something that has now become so painfully clear to me.
This movie was all about style, with no substance. I would not have cared about what the alt or robot modes looked like, accept for the fact that they were trying to use the alt/robot modes to compensate for the extreme lack personality of the characters. Just like some guys buy flashy cars to compensate for their lack of "manhood", these alt modes were attempts to make the characters look cool because who would give a crap about a mute robot who has a strange sense of humor, pees on people, and turns into an old beat up VW bug, right? I would have settled for them making frenzy a pez dispenser if they given him a bad ass personality like he had in g1 (oh no he didn't mention G1. Yes he did).
Besides, I did not like seeing a stick figure robot having an orgasm while banging a server on air force one.
Oh, I'm sorry, was that a spoiler?

Don't you know ? If you want a movie with depth or character development, you're boring. I've recently been told so.

Creature SH wrote:Don't you know ? If you want a movie with depth or character development, you're boring. I've recently been told so.

Funny, before the movie opened I was told I was a low brow hick with a low iq because I was happy with a movie that involved action, big explosions, big robots beating the **** out of each other, oh, and half naked chicks. All that in exchange for no story.

So you know, cry a river, or do what I did and ignore people who tell you how you should be enjoying a movie.

I had some MAJOR issues with the designs when they started showing up last year. I swore I'd never watch this movie because of what Bay did to Starscream. A monkey-bird robot monster with a bug head? COME ON!!

But I did see it. I still hate Starscream's new design, but i can live with it, because the movie rocked hard. I belong to a group that's even more obsessed with Star Wars than everyone here is with transformers, and they all loved it.

All Transformers fans should thank whatever God they believe in that this movie turned out the way it did. You wanna see how someone can REALLY take a franchise you loved all your life and turn it into complete crap? Watch the Star Wars Prequels. At least Bay didn't take all the human actors and throw them into a big green room and expect them to be able to act.

Love the new designs of them. I hope that the new cartoon in 08 has the same designs as in the movie. It was very nessasery for bay to change the design because the originals would have looked stupid on the movie screen.

homelessjunkeon wrote:

Autobobby1 wrote:So you're saying that G1 is realistic because they have human faces and regular hands and that the movie looks cartoonish because it looks different? Wow, you sure are a Geewunner. I am SICK of people like you who don't like the movie because of the designs.

Translation:
"HAI GUYZ I DDUNT REED DIS FRED, SPESHULLY NOT TEH PERTS WERE PPL SED DEY DDIUNT WONT A G1 MOVEH, BURT INSTED KWESHTUNED TEH RELISEM OF TEH NU DESINES, SO IMMA JUST HURL M'SELF IN AND FLAEM PPL FOR BEEN G-WUINNERz!!!111DURDURDUR"

So instead of attempting to argue, you act like a total jackass? Yeah, THAT will make people see things your way.

Ballistic90 wrote:

homelessjunkeon wrote:

Autobobby1 wrote:So you're saying that G1 is realistic because they have human faces and regular hands and that the movie looks cartoonish because it looks different? Wow, you sure are a Geewunner. I am SICK of people like you who don't like the movie because of the designs.

Translation:
"HAI GUYZ I DDUNT REED DIS FRED, SPESHULLY NOT TEH PERTS WERE PPL SED DEY DDIUNT WONT A G1 MOVEH, BURT INSTED KWESHTUNED TEH RELISEM OF TEH NU DESINES, SO IMMA JUST HURL M'SELF IN AND FLAEM PPL FOR BEEN G-WUINNERz!!!111DURDURDUR"

So instead of attempting to argue, you act like a total jackass? Yeah, THAT will make people see things your way.

Yes, it will just make us not agree with his way, though.

roy_flagg00 wrote:Where I have bolded is a comment that made me realize something that has now become so painfully clear to me.
This movie was all about style, with no substance. I would not have cared about what the alt or robot modes looked like, accept for the fact that they were trying to use the alt/robot modes to compensate for the extreme lack personality of the characters. Just like some guys buy flashy cars to compensate for their lack of "manhood", these alt modes were attempts to make the characters look cool because who would give a crap about a mute robot who has a strange sense of humor, pees on people, and turns into an old beat up VW bug, right? I would have settled for them making frenzy a pez dispenser if they given him a bad ass personality like he had in g1 (oh no he didn't mention G1. Yes he did).
Besides, I did not like seeing a stick figure robot having an orgasm while banging a server on air force one.
Oh, I'm sorry, was that a spoiler?

Frenzy didn't have a bad ass personality. He acted like a stupid child half the time. At least Rumble did. You hardly saw Frenzy, but they seemed to have the exact same personality. "If in the Decepticon territory you happen to tumble, look out because her comes rumble!" Ha! He rhymed! WHAT A BAD ASS.

How do you even know he was having an orgasm? Do you have any idea what kind of concentration hacking would require? Chances are it was intended to be a look of concentration and it came off wrong. Besides, he was a decepticon. You were supposed to hate him. It made his death so much more satisfying.

And hey, if I were looking for an alternate mode as a robot from space, I would NOT pick a Volkswagon Beetle, especially if I was expecting to be doing some fighting, driving or just about anything. The engine compartment for a VW Beetle was incredibly tiny and actually located in the back, not the front. It would have almost no power at all, and would make a horrible alternate mode for combat.

Sure, I would have much rathered Optimus be a Kenworth Cab-Over, Jazz a Porsche or RX-8, and Starscream a F-15 Eagle.
The movie designs have their flaws, and plenty of them, but they work.

Ballistic90 wrote:
And hey, if I were looking for an alternate mode as a robot from space, I would NOT pick a Volkswagon Beetle, especially if I was expecting to be doing some fighting, driving or just about anything. The engine compartment for a VW Beetle was incredibly tiny and actually located in the back, not the front. It would have almost no power at all, and would make a horrible alternate mode for combat.

Bolded is where you prove yourself to be a hack and willing to defend anything about this movie (this is in reference to Ballitic90, not all who like the movie).
You do realize that the transformers are copying only the exterior of the car, not the interior/mechanics, right?
A transformer could choose a model T ford as an alt mode and it would not make a difference in terms of speed or combat effectiveness. if they are that worried about combat effectivnesss and speed, why bother with disguise at all?
disguise is disguise, flamboyance is flamboyance.
it makes no sense to bother with wearing a disguise if it is going to attract massive amounts of attention.
btw, I just took a look at the original design for movie ratchet.

can one person explain to me the logic of changing his colors from a traditional rescue vehicle to LIME GREEN!?
I bet not one person can explain that to me.
I dare you Ballistic90, or anyone else who goes to the mat for these designs for that matter, to try to explain that to me. Sure, you risk that your delicately constructed "I love everything about this movie no matter what" logic will fall apart, but give it a try.

NOTE: This message is in large print not because I'm angry, because I'm not, but because I want people to see and read it.


This message is for everyone on both sides, I don't care if you like the designs or not.

Your opinion is your opinion.

It only matters to you and you all are wasting your time trying to prove your opinions to each other.

Please, for the sake of Primus, stop this madness.

I have my own opinion and you all have your own opinions and that is the way it is suppose to be.

I'm tired of threads like this one where everyone tries to get their opinion across to someone who doesn't agree with it.

Please stop.

Thank you.