The Energon Pub

News Credits: 2 · by **Philcom** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:49 pm

I just have a simple opinion, but it's kinda based on the fan made CGI I've seen over the years. When they use the block G1 designs it really looks like giant toys walking down the street.

The movie designs could have looked a bit better, but it worked.

by **Starscreams bad comedy** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:59 pm

I think that a more classic approach would have worked better. As i have said before you dont need to do an exact carbon copy of the G1 designs/toys, but they could have at least used the altenators as a basis for the over all look of the characters. Then they could have just tweaked it a bit, adding extra detail, and thinking about what would allow for freedom of movement. This way you could have a design that is more updated and pleasing as a whole to the fan base. As it stands now I dont see the real need for 10,000 moving parts when they filmed it in such a way that you cant even see most of it, and besides, its a bit distracting when you got that much crap moving around. It just comes off looking like a bunch of moving scrap metal over a humanoid shape as opposed to parts of machine.

News Credits: 5 · by **physucks** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:23 pm

Here are my thoughts.

They (the movie people) gave us a taste of G1 CGI with the Sector Seven viral videos. Yes, Grimlock was cool, but very hokey. Maybe if it was a Godzilla movie... It just wouldn't have worked in this movie. The same for Bumblebee.

I do think they should have kept him as a Bug or a Mini or something small like that.

Screamer was sweetness in the viral video and I think they should have done something more like that in the move. I mean just made him more recognizable. I loves Screamer in the movie and the design was cool too, just for a different bot.

Someone on here mentioned that only Prime and Bumblebee were modelled after the G1 characters as far as looks went. I think Jazz was about as close as we are going to get to a G1 bot. He was pretty close aside from the make and model of vehicle. He was just missing the door wings.

Next topic, All the moving parts:
I have been reading interview after interview about why they chose to animate the transformations the way they did. They took as many actual car parts as possible and made the robots uing those parts. Of course they cut some pieces up and used them in multiple places, but MAN! that's impressive. They also had to animate them in a way that the pieces would not collide.

I was shocked the first time I saw Megs and Starscream, but I've never been a G1 stickler. I like the toys, and I always have. The cartoon and comics were always secondary to me. I don't think this movie could have been made with G1, or even Alternator type transformations. It would not have worked.

Sorry for the long post.

by **YouFearGalvatron** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:26 pm

Hot_Rod wrote:
Viral wrote:As a former movie designs skeptic, I say the movie designs worked, and worked fabulously. It would have not worked with G1/Cartooney designs. Period.

The designs rocked, btw. I was scared when they were on scream. They looked intimidating. If you didn't like the designs after watching the film, then you're out the club.

So what you're saying is that THIS style put in the hands of pro's like ILM would in no way have worked and had a snowballs chance in hell to work just as good as the designs that were actually used? You're saying there is no possibility at all that they could have made THAT kind of design (on their high performance proffesional grade computers) look good and work with the story that was written??

P.S. That animation sequence was modeled directly from the Jazz commercial bumper out of the original show. Buy obviously, that is a whole new Transformer.

Viral: "Game, set, match."

Personally, the designs were not bad, they kind of grew on me, but the faces were terrible. Just terrible.

News Credits: 1 · by **Spazicon** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:32 pm

YouFearGalvatron wrote:
Hot_Rod wrote:
Viral wrote:As a former movie designs skeptic, I say the movie designs worked, and worked fabulously. It would have not worked with G1/Cartooney designs. Period.

The designs rocked, btw. I was scared when they were on scream. They looked intimidating. If you didn't like the designs after watching the film, then you're out the club.

So what you're saying is that THIS style put in the hands of pro's like ILM would in no way have worked and had a snowballs chance in hell to work just as good as the designs that were actually used? You're saying there is no possibility at all that they could have made THAT kind of design (on their high performance proffesional grade computers) look good and work with the story that was written??

P.S. That animation sequence was modeled directly from the Jazz commercial bumper out of the original show. Buy obviously, that is a whole new Transformer.

Viral: "Game, set, match."

What?

by **Rodimus_Prime13** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:43 pm

I don't mean that all the characters are silver.

Every character in Robot mode has large portions of their bodies that are silver/grey metallic. The way they are segmented also kind of makes them so uniform it is difficult to discern one robot from another in action sequences.

When Optimus Prime backhands Megatron in the old movie, you don't have any problem at all figuring out what just happend.

In most of the hand to hand sequences, it is much harder.

by **E107_Theta** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:16 pm

I love G1. When it comes to Transformers, I like G1, Beast Wars, and the movie. That's about it.

As much as I love G1, and I like it way better than the movie, boxy-G1-equse cartoony designs wouldn't work, unless the movie was entirely animated. I was bitching about the designs at first, but they grew on me as I saw the movie. I hated Megatron's design, and after seeing the film, I'll say movie Megatron is even BETTER than G1. It's a cold day in hell now. The only design I still outright hate is Starscream, and the only one I'm a little iffy with is Bumblebee. But I liked the designs enough to buy 4/5 of the Autobots, and I'll be getting Bumblebee when the 2008 version comes out, and maybe a Decepticon or two.

What matters to me is character recognition, and the only characters that are really recognizable are Optimus, Jazz and Bumblebee. Megatron and Starscream very vaguely resemble the originals.

But it would only take very minor changes to make me happy with that - I think the "G1" deco movie toys are what the actual movie designs should have looked like. They're still very alien, but also have recognizable features - i.e. Ratchet is white instead of puke green, and Starscream has a better head and color scheme, but is otherwise movie Starscream. If that had simply changed Starscream's head to the one on the "G1 redeco" movie toy, I'd be happy with his design.

by **roy_flagg00** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:24 pm

Burnup Prime wrote:to put it simply: G1 designs worked in 1984, but would NOT work in 2007

Exactly.
And bayformers would not work in 1984 and would work never.
You can't climb the high road of realism and take the low road of cliche.
I bet that there are designs out there that aren't g1 but also dont suck.
I know it hurts to admit, but people should not psyche themselves into believing the designs are good just because they like transformers so much that they dont want the movie to fail.
The designs were not the worst ever, but could have been way better.
Also, don't forget to buy your new Pontiac Solstice!
That way you can imagine you too are riding around in a transformer!
:grin:

News Credits: 3 · by **LuckytheWonderLlama** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:31 pm

Hot_Rod wrote:
Venomous Prime wrote:I loved the designs and am glad they went with them...

I would have killed myself if they had a G1-esque Frenzy doing stuff Movie Frenzy did.

It wouldn't have worked at all

Here's the thing though. That character was NOT supposed to be Frenzy! Originally it was supposed to be a part of Soundwave (who is now renamed Blackout) and then that was changed so that (the current) Frenzy would be Soundwave, and then they changed it again to rename him Frenzy. I believe this was after they saw how important Soundwave was to so many people.

So therefore you would not have seen it walking around like G1 Frenzy anyway, because it was never intended to actually be that character.

But for characters like Ratchet, Jazz, Bumblebee, Optimus Prime, Megatron (maybe as a Tank so you would have had his Trademark Arm Cannon), Starscream etc... all those core characters/full sized characters... Do you think they might have been well served in their original skin (or close to it but with a slight real world enviornment adaption only for the nescessary parts and joints)?

You answered your own question. The Frenzy in the movie is not supposed to be the G1 Frenzy.

None of the characters in the movie are supposed to be their G1 counterparts. So the whole argument of not using the original designs is moot.

by **MAYTAG** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:39 pm

Hey the sequels could incorporate soundwave as giant blue ray disk player??? just a comic jab at all the Design experts posting. Come on the the movie rocked plain and simple !! what should we call the new Decepticon ??? Vendetta? Vender?? Dewster? Yellow number 5??? Vendicon??? He got left behind on the streets of Mission City???

by **UltraMagnus 72927** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:42 pm

Hi-Q wrote:no, they don't have a CARTOON feel to them.

as a G1 fan, I'm sorry you went in thinking you were going to see a cartoon instead of a live action movie, but perhaps you might want to consider that since transformers has never been DONE in live action before, the robots just might look a TAD different in real life environments...

I agree with Hi-Q, besides, the movie does not mean that it is the end of the cartoons. They have a new cartoon out every year. Period.

by **Cornicer** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:55 pm

I think that the redesign was DEFINITELY needed, but I completely disagree with the way they did it.

I can't stand many of the designs because they seem to emphasize the bot over the alt mode(that didn't come out well, let me explain). Many of them seem to want to get rid of the 'evidence' of their alt mode as much as possible, whereas I've always felt that the alt mode is an element that should be "waved around" in the robot mode. Also as(somewhat of, though not completely) a side-effect of this philosophy is the exposed looks of many of the designs(megs being the worst); some look like they're missing some extra plating(when one thinks about them being soldiers).

However, what my biggest problem with the designs is(one, which without it I think I could have grown to actually LIKE many of the designs) the heads.

Yes, yes, yes... "they're aliens, they shouldn't have humanoid heads!" But I'm sorry, not only are the heads fugly(not to mention that some bear an uncanny resemblance to insects; not exactly alien if you ask me), but why would they have mouths(It certainly would seem to be quite a disadvantage to have a giant opening in your head). Also, the idea that they would have two arms and legs is just as 'human'. Why wouldn't they have another body plan; of all the physical incarnations they could have, they have the EXACT body plan(two arms legs, eyes, etc.) of a human?

In the end, the heads are fugly, and brought a number of designs down from "I could learn to like it in time" to "There is no way I'll ever truly like that."

News Credits: 4 · by **Repugnus** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:03 am

Were the designs necessary? To put it simply, no, they were not. But did they work well in the movie? Yes, they did. Once they were in motion, most of them looked beyond fantastic. However, the fact that they worked out well in the movie does not mean they were the only designs that would've worked, nor does it mean they were automatically the best choices possible.

Would more G1-esque designs have worked as well? If done right, absolutely! It is incredibly closed minded to assume that what we got was the only way it could have worked. Don't get me wrong, the movie was amazing, and the designs they usedworked great, but these designs were not the only way they could have gone.

When you get right down to it, the designs they used were just a choice. One of many possibilities. Would all of the possibilities have worked equally well? No, definitely not. But just because they made the choice to go with the designs they did doesn't mean there weren't other options that also could have worked equally well (or possibly even better).

Let me use an analogy...

A friend of mine is a movie critic, and when I was telling him about the Transformers before he went to see the movie, I told him I had a slight concern over whether or not they'd nail the characterization on Starscream properly. In response, my friend was baffled by the concept of giant alien robots having distinct personalities. As he said it, "Characterization and Transformers are two words that I can't see going together." Then, when he saw the movie, he took back his earlier statement, now saying that the Autobots were some of the most likable characters he'd seen in a movie all year.

To say that there's no way the old G1 designs would have worked is just as closed minded as my friend was being about TF characterization before he saw the movie. He had never experienced seeing TF's with strong personalities, and so he couldn't imagine how it could even be possible. Likewise, none of us have seen a live action TF movie with G1 designs (and no, the little vids on the Sector Seven site don't count), and so it's possible that some of the fans can't imagine seeing it work. But that doesn't mean they couldn't pull it off had they chosen too. I'd be willing to bet that if they had used G1 inspired designs, we'd have just as many people now saying that was the only way they could have done it.

Now keep in mind, I'm not bashing the designs they used for the movie (although personally I still don't care for the visual direction they wen't with Megatron, but that's just my personal opinion, and is a different matter entirely). Quite frankly, the movie looked amazing, and the designs ended up working great. But let's not be presumptuous enough to say that was the only way they could have gone. G1-esque designs could have worked too, but ultimately they went in a different direction (which is fine). Remember, just because one option worked doesn't mean others couldn't have as well.

Again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, I am not saying that G1 designs would've been automatically better. I'm just saying that they also wouldn't have been automatically worse. It's all about how well they do it, much more so than what they do.

News Credits: 2 · by **Autobobby1** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:04 am

Wow, to imagine I missed this thread! I guess I'll give my opinion...

The designs rock. Seriously. They're very cool looking and PERFECT for live action. Would they work in a cartoon? No, cartoons are less realisic. But could you really imagine a robot that looks like this in a live action movie?:

While they could have made them a little more like G1, they did a great job.

And you know what? G1 wouldn't even look good in a modern CARTOON. If that's true, how could the G1 designs be in a film?

As for faces...

They show more emotion than ever before. There's tons of little intricate pieces that move around so that you CAN see emotions. My only problem with Prime's face is that the mouth is too low. A little higher and it'd be perfect.

And Rubber Ducky (Megsy) has fangs because they make him look like an alien harbinger of death.

Starscream? Are you joking? Watch the movie and say that Screamer looks like crap, and you must be going BLIND.

by **theprime8604** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:26 am

alright the designs were most def called for... i love g1 as much as anyone else does but to make a live action film out of it i just cant see after seeing the new movie twice... and like every one else said wut the heek would have happen to primes trailer when he transformed unless it turn into a huge blaster of some sort but that would never work and the characters new design was just great i mean did u see primes ears or wutever they were if im wrong about the ear things spinning around in that house scene.... cool and the Decepticons just looked mean fierce and evil and i'll shut up now

News Credits: 972 · by **i_amtrunks** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:30 am

The alt mode choices I am fine with, and have been pretty much the whole way through. The colour choices I have not been fine with, the flames still seem rather childish and it feels almost like they thought the flames were needed to make Prime "cool" or something, a Red Truck with Blue on it would have sufficed for variation, but they cannot claim that excuse when Jazz was all silver, Ironhide all black, and Ratchet almost exclusively Puke green.

The robot designs were bad. they look better on the big screen while in motion, but they really could not have looked much worse. I understand and am fine with updating the 1980's G1 style transformations, but they way they went about it, especially with the "they are aliens, so they must look like giant insectoids" theme that was adhered to. The toys do a good part in not only maintaining the upgraded movie designs, but keeping the more armoured feel of the G1 characters.

I wont start on the faces, because they are all rubbish, and the weakest point on every single movie Transformer.

News Credits: 1 · by **Spazicon** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:36 am

^Totally disagree with everything you said. Bay, and his team did a fantastic job. I am glad to stuck to their guns, and ignored the moaning and bellowing from a few, and stuck it out with the chosen designs. Movie rocked the casbah.

by **thirteen-spades** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:40 am

Viral wrote:^Totally disagree with everything you said. Bay, and his team did a fantastic job. I am glad to stuck to their guns, and ignored the moaning and bellowing from a few, and stuck it out with the chosen designs. Movie rocked the casbah.

i can only say... Dam straight,

is everyoine stuck in the eighties. many of u claim they could have done better, in my opinion i have yet to see any, and ive looked at alot of concepts, lets face it, when bay said to the designers draw me a real life transformer, that is millions of years in advance of our own technology, why would you draw anything resembling g1, animators in the 1980's animators draw like a 5 year old compare to todays standards.

by **YouFearGalvatron** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:29 am

i_amtrunks wrote:The alt mode choices I am fine with, and have been pretty much the whole way through. The colour choices I have not been fine with, the flames still seem rather childish and it feels almost like they thought the flames were needed to make Prime "cool" or something, a Red Truck with Blue on it would have sufficed for variation, but they cannot claim that excuse when Jazz was all silver, Ironhide all black, and Ratchet almost exclusively Puke green.

The robot designs were bad. they look better on the big screen while in motion, but they really could not have looked much worse. I understand and am fine with updating the 1980's G1 style transformations, but they way they went about it, especially with the "they are aliens, so they must look like giant insectoids" theme that was adhered to. The toys do a good part in not only maintaining the upgraded movie designs, but keeping the more armoured feel of the G1 characters.

I wont start on the faces, because they are all rubbish, and the weakest point on every single movie Transformer.

QFT.

by **War Hammer** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:30 am

I watched a bit of it last night with a few mates, from what I saw it was ok. The only designed that looked decent was Prime, my mates who know nothing of transformers agreed he looked good. When they saw Megatron all three of them basically said what the feck is that meant to be, one commented that he looked like the guy Ivan Ooze who merged with the robot from the power rangers movie :lol:

And checking him out on google today he's right.

We all liked Prime, Jazz and Bubblebees design. They brought their alt and robot mode up to date but still kept something of the original concept. But everyone agreed Megatrons design was piss poor, so I agree with Hotrod that the characters could have benefited from pulling more from their original designs and adapting them into their current incarnations.

News Credits: 2 · by **Autobobby1** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:24 pm

Hot_Rod wrote:
roy_flagg00 wrote:
Burnup Prime wrote:to put it simply: G1 designs worked in 1984, but would NOT work in 2007

Exactly.
And bayformers would not work in 1984 and would work never.
You can't climb the high road of realism and take the low road of cliche.
I bet that there are designs out there that aren't g1 but also dont suck.
I know it hurts to admit, but people should not psyche themselves into believing the designs are good just because they like transformers so much that they dont want the movie to fail.
The designs were not the worst ever, but could have been way better.
Also, don't forget to buy your new Pontiac Solstice!
That way you can imagine you too are riding around in a transformer!

I totally can relate to what you are saying. Some love Transformers so much so they feel they are not a real fan if they question if some things could have been done better. But I say that like in any free society that you MUST question if things could have been done better, so that you can then make them better. As good fans I think it is our duty to question what could have worked better, so that they can make them better next time.

See my entire feeling is that this movie came out looking like a cartoon ANYWAY. Mostly because of their heads and the bad placed humor "Bring me some Ding Dongs" (Cartoon sound effect follows) POP (Bumblbee stop peeing on the human (Complete with cartoon sound effeects) plus the transformation sequences were nothing more than morphs.

Frenzy was the worst cartoon element of all. With his little cartoony voice noises and the way he moved... and he looked like he was constructed out of hundreds of small knives.

Then there was the fact that they all had teeth and claws, complete with multiple mouth pinchers that opened and closed around their mouth. Was there a real purpose to that?

See I think all those things made it look like a cartoon. Where as if you just give them actual hands an fingers, then maybe they would've looke more like ROBOTS.

And why do Transformers need to blink? What is the point of that? Here's what I don't get. They are saying "OK these are aliens so give them monster faces" yet while in the same breath saying "Forget how fans know them, they have to blink and act more human1" WTF? Just make up your mind already!

See I just don't understand how these things work better than any other more distinctive Transformers designs characteristic. I think it works just the opposite and creates the exact cartoony feeling that some of you guys are saying that you want to avoid and fear the traditional design elements would create.

And don't get me wrong. Do not assume that I am saying every designs should be an exact replica from the original cartoon because I'm not. What I am saying is that they should look more like Robots and less like Yu-gui-oh card monsters from the Yu-gui-oh cartoon.

Claws, Teeth, Mouth Pinchers, monster heads, Knife arms, torso, and legs make a whole lot LESS sense than normal hands (this is why Prime worked the best of the whole bunch), fingers, and visor lenses.

You all say you don't want them to look cartoony. Well neither do I and that's why I have a problem with the designs as they are!!

Not only that but I was on the Redskins website and they were talking about the movie and some said they couldn't tell who was who. And they couldn't tell who was fighting who. Makes sense because they're all colored pretty much the exact same way with multiple pipes in robot modes.

I think too many people have bought into the "It's Real!" spin that they fed to us because I do not see them looking all that realistic, especially with the way those heads were designed. And I find a number of people outside the fandom agreeing, even amongst those that really enjoyed the movie. (Granted they just liked the packed action that was in it.)

But I usually like to end on a positive note so I the Bumblbee and Prime Designs around the legs worked pretty decetn. They could be improved upon, but they did enough of the job. Besides, it's not like you could see much of them anyhow with how much the camera was shaking.

So you're saying that G1 is realistic because they have human faces and regular hands and that the movie looks cartoonish because it looks different? Wow, you sure are a Geewunner. I am SICK of people like you who don't like the movie because of the designs.