The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I'm sure an argument can be made for saying WFC is as much a "G1-ish" as the on going G1 comics from IDWW

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:But what I'm asking here is how can it not be a G1 continuity in the same way the IDW stories are.

Because, since its official placement in the modern aligned continuity, it doesn't involve any iteration of the G1/Primax characters.

Had its official standpoint not been made, then maybe the idea of this being a new version of G1 could have held some water. But since it was stated to be the foundation of the new modern aligned canon, it's far less G1/Primax than the Sunbow G1 cartoon, the Marvel G1 Comics, the DW G1 comics, and the IDW G1 comics are.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What do you mean by "Primax cluster"???

As Shadowman said, Primax is the designation given to the contiunity family that comprises all G1 and Beast Era fiction. It also acts as a physical location within the fictional Transformers multiverse, which contains all the many G1 and Beast Era universes.

Thus far, these are the known clusters of universes within the Multi-Verse of Eternity:

• Primax - the Generation 1 continuity family, includes the Beast Era sub-continuity family
• Viron - the Robots in Disguise continuity family (Note that this contains only English RiD fiction, as the Japanese version, Car Robots, is part of Primax)
• Aurex - the Unicron Trilogy continuity family
• Tyran - the live action Bay movies continuity family (note that this may or may not contain the Japanese Animated fiction, which was dubbed as a "prequel" to the movies)
• Malgus - the Animated continuity family
• Nexus - the TransTech reality
• Yayayarst - the Playskool Go-Bots (A.K.A. "Go-Go-Go-Bots") continuity
• Quadwal - the real world reality that you, me, and all us Internet users reside in
• Gargent - the Tonka GoBots franchise
• Xobitor - the Robotix franchise
• "Negative Polarity Universes" - contain the Shattered Glass continuity
• The modern aligned continuity - contains the canons of WFC, Exodus, and Prime fiction (note that this cluster may exist outside of the multiverse, as certain multiversal standards established in previous canons do not apply here, thus making the multiverse out to be an omniverse)

Sabrblade wrote:Had its official standpoint not been made, then maybe the idea of this being a new version of G1 could have held some water. But since it was stated to be the foundation of the new modern aligned canon, it's far less G1/Primax than the Sunbow G1 cartoon, the Marvel G1 Comics, the DW G1 comics, and the IDW G1 comics are.

The "official standpoint" has already been changed several times.

It can be changed again.

What I'm asking is how its not capable of being an other G1 continuity.

As Shadowman said, Primax is the designation given to the contiunity family that comprises all G1 and Beast Era fiction. It also acts as a physical location within the fictional Transformers multiverse, which contains all the many G1 and Beast Era universes.

Thus far, these are the known clusters of universes within the Multi-Verse of Eternity:

• Primax - the Generation 1 continuity family, includes the Beast Era sub-continuity family
• Viron - the Robots in Disguise continuity family (Note that this contains only English RiD fiction, as the Japanese version, Car Robots, is part of Primax)
• Aurex - the Unicron Trilogy continuity family
• Tyran - the live action Bay movies continuity family (note that this may or may not contain the Japanese Animated fiction, which was dubbed as a "prequel" to the movies)
• Malgus - the Animated continuity family
• Nexus - the TransTech reality
• Yayayarst - the Playskool Go-Bots (A.K.A. "Go-Go-Go-Bots") continuity
• Quadwal - the real world reality that you, me, and all us Internet users reside in
• Gargent - the Tonka GoBots franchise
• Xobitor - the Robotix franchise
• "Negative Polarity Universes" - contain the Shattered Glass continuity
• The modern aligned continuity - contains the canons of WFC, Exodus, and Prime fiction (note that this cluster may exist outside of the multiverse, as certain multiversal standards established in previous canons do not apply here, thus making the multiverse out to be an omniverse)

Thank you for this information.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:The "official standpoint" has already been changed several times.

It can be changed again.

Yes, and they can also stop making all Transformers toys and fiction tomorrow. It doesn't mean they will.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What I'm asking is how its not capable of being an other G1 continuity.

Because it isn't.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:The "official standpoint" has already been changed several times.

It can be changed again.

Yes, and they can also stop making all Transformers toys and fiction tomorrow. It doesn't mean they will.

They are far more likely to change therir minds about continuities then close off the brand.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:What I'm asking is how its not capable of being an other G1 continuity.

Because it isn't.

So I take it you cant offer an answer???

Because it is not does not mean it can not.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Had its official standpoint not been made, then maybe the idea of this being a new version of G1 could have held some water. But since it was stated to be the foundation of the new modern aligned canon, it's far less G1/Primax than the Sunbow G1 cartoon, the Marvel G1 Comics, the DW G1 comics, and the IDW G1 comics are.

The "official standpoint" has already been changed several times.

It can be changed again.

What I'm asking is how its not capable of being an other G1 continuity.

Well, how about this. In this interview from about year or so ago, Aaron Archer and Matt Tieger describe the game's intended canonicity:

The goal was to tell a story of pre-Earth Cybertron that could be used as a basis for future Transformers stories and generations. It is not connected to any particular generation, but pulls from them all, taking elements, references, story arcs and merges them into this one, new story. If and when possible, Hasbro will try to "stick" to one ongoing cannon(sic), and this could be used as a foundation for it. That being said, it was relayed of course that "Movies are always separate". For the non-movie products - toys, video games and otherwise - it looks like this could be the start of the latest, and possibly last, Generation. At least for a while, anyway.

And that's exactly what came to pass. According to this, WFC wasn't conceived as being tied to any existing generation (which would include the G1 continuity family), but was instead set up as the foundational point of a new modern canon, and has thus become such.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Had its official standpoint not been made, then maybe the idea of this being a new version of G1 could have held some water. But since it was stated to be the foundation of the new modern aligned canon, it's far less G1/Primax than the Sunbow G1 cartoon, the Marvel G1 Comics, the DW G1 comics, and the IDW G1 comics are.

The "official standpoint" has already been changed several times.

It can be changed again.

What I'm asking is how its not capable of being an other G1 continuity.

Well, how about this. In this interview from about year or so ago, Aaron Archer and Matt Tieger describe the game's intended canonicity:

The goal was to tell a story of pre-Earth Cybertron that could be used as a basis for future Transformers stories and generations. It is not connected to any particular generation, but pulls from them all, taking elements, references, story arcs and merges them into this one, new story. If and when possible, Hasbro will try to "stick" to one ongoing cannon(sic), and this could be used as a foundation for it. That being said, it was relayed of course that "Movies are always separate". For the non-movie products - toys, video games and otherwise - it looks like this could be the start of the latest, and possibly last, Generation. At least for a while, anyway.

And that's exactly what came to pass. According to this, WFC wasn't conceived as being tied to any existing generation (which would include G1), but was instead set up as the foundational point of a new modern canon, and has thus become such.

Nice interview.

But it doesnt address my question.

Just like we have all found evidence from within the game that proves it cant be connected to the G1 toon/comics I'm asking for evidence that proves it cant be a G1 continuity at all.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Nice interview.

But it doesnt address my question.

Just like we have all found evidence from within the game that proves it cant be connected to the G1 toon/comics I'm asking for evidence that proves it cant be a G1 continuity at all.

Well, I'm not sure how much clearer I can get with that interview's line of "It is not connected to any particular generation". The G1 continuity family is a "particular generation", and this makes it seem like it's supposed to be a completely pure and fresh start like how Armada and the movies were. IDW's G1 comics and Dreamwave's G1 comics just weren't as "pure" and "fresh" a start as these were.

If I can't explain it any clearer than this, then maybe this is one of those questions that would be better suited to be asked towards the higher-ups at Hasbro rather than the fans who can't explain it as well as those guys could.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Nice interview.

But it doesnt address my question.

Just like we have all found evidence from within the game that proves it cant be connected to the G1 toon/comics I'm asking for evidence that proves it cant be a G1 continuity at all.

Well, I'm not sure how much clearer I can get with that interview's line of "It is not connected to any particular generation". The G1 continuity family is a "particular generation", and this makes it seem like it's supposed to be a completely pure and fresh start like how Armada and the movies were. IDW's G1 comics and Dreamwave's G1 comics just weren't as "pure" and "fresh" a start as these were.

If I can't explain it any clearer than this, then maybe this is one of those questions that would be better suited to be asked towards the higher-ups at Hasbro rather than the fans who can't explain it as well as those guys could.

Are you really suggesting that Hasbro could answer thgis question??

They flip flop when ever it suits them.

And even a direct statement from them that its not connected wouldn't answer the question I asked.

Its basically like a math question.

Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??

Anything in-game that states that it is definitely not a different/new iteration of G1?

... ...



To be honest, I really do not know the answer to this. I cannot give a solid yes or no because I honestly can't think of a proper answer to this question. I am sincerely stumped.

I guess the only people I could think of who might be able to answer this are the certain folks at TFWiki.net who specialize in this kind of analysis of canon.


Also because I don't actually own the game.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Is there anything in the game that excludes the possibility that its a new G1 continuity??

Anything in-game that states that it is definitely not a different/new iteration of G1?

... ...



To be honest, I really do not know the answer to this. I cannot give a solid yes or no because I honestly can't think of a proper to this question. I am sincerely stumped.

I guess the only people I could think of who might be able to answer this are the certain folks at TFWiki.net who specialize in this kind of analysis of canon.


Also because I don't actually own the game.

neither do I

There's a place in Hell specifically reserved for murderers and traitors and the worst mankind has to offer. You two are going to the place below that.

Those two sentences are a major gamble on my part, seeing as many people can't tell when I'm joking or not, when it should be painfully obvious that I am.

Shadowman wrote:There's a place in Hell specifically reserved for murderers and traitors and the worst mankind has to offer. You two are going to the place below that.

Those two sentences are a major gamble on my part, seeing as many people can't tell when I'm joking or not, when it should be painfully obvious that I am.

And I'm sure I'll meet you there

Shadowman wrote:There's a place in Hell specifically reserved for murderers and traitors and the worst mankind has to offer. You two are going to the place below that.

Those two sentences are a major gamble on my part, seeing as many people can't tell when I'm joking or not, when it should be painfully obvious that I am.

If this joking statement is because I'm discussing a game that I do not own, then just because I don't own (and haven't fully played) the game, doesn't mean I haven't experienced it. There's several complete walkthroughs of the game up on YouTube. I've watch one of them all the way through, getting the full experience of the game's events.

I know you were kidding, but if that isn't what brought up this remark, then I dunno what was.

Isn't this debate similar to when the RCC debated on how many angels can sit on a pin's head?

Let's just do it ala DC Comics prior to CIIE circa 1985. You have Earth One,Two, Three............infinity.

The Marvel Comic had Primus as the Creator, the G1 cartoon the Quintessons,DW........Primus and the Quintessons(?) etc.

Heck even hasbro can't seem to make up their minds.

fenrir72 wrote:Let's just do it ala DC Comics prior to CIIE circa 1985. You have Earth One,Two, Three............infinity.

We actually do that already, to some extent. (It's closer to Marvel's system) The point of this thread is to explain that to people.

Shadowman wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Let's just do it ala DC Comics prior to CIIE circa 1985. You have Earth One,Two, Three............infinity.

We actually do that already, to some extent. (It's closer to Marvel's system) The point of this thread is to explain that to people.

Right. The info I gave above is part of this organizational system. It all deals with the various Universal Streams of the TF multiverse.

I've never known video games to fit perfectly into continuity anyway. Star Wars Shadows of the Empire is a prime example.
I mean, did optimus prime really run out of ammo in the prison? Cause, I sure did.

Screamfleet wrote:I've never known video games to fit perfectly into continuity anyway. Star Wars Shadows of the Empire is a prime example.
I mean, did optimus prime really run out of ammo in the prison? Cause, I sure did.

Well your confusing game play with the over all story.

I don't see a difference.
The point is, a game can have different results because of gameplay.

Screamfleet wrote:I don't see a difference.
The point is, a game can have different results because of gameplay.

Ammo count is not part of the story. It's gameplay and story segregation. Gameplay does not effect the story.

And yes, some games DO have different results because of options you may take during gameplay...WfC is not one of those games.

Still, the point remains, things have to be ignored because it's a video game? When telling the story you dont say "then optimus picked up more ammo and health". It's a video game, and changes have to be made to make it one. If I'm ignoring any aspects of the game to better fit my personal story continuity preferences that's a big slippery slope.
I cant justify saying "that doesn't matter, that's part of the game"
The whole game is part of the game. If that doesn't matter, why does the story?

Screamfleet wrote:Still, the point remains, things have to be ignored because it's a video game? When telling the story you dont say "then optimus picked up more ammo and health". It's a video game, and changes have to be made to make it one. If I'm ignoring any aspects of the game to better fit my personal story continuity preferences that's a big slippery slope.
I cant justify saying "that doesn't matter, that's part of the game"
The whole game is part of the game. If that doesn't matter, why does the story?

Okay, once more, with gusto:

Gameplay is not part of the story. The story is part of the game, however, but gameplay elements do not effect the story.

There's the game, then there's gameplay. Gameplay is one of many elements, the game is the combination of those elements. You're mixing those up.

Screamfleet wrote:I don't see a difference.
The point is, a game can have different results because of gameplay.

And that right there is the difference.

The basic story remains the same no matter the game play.

Screamfleet wrote:Still, the point remains, things have to be ignored because it's a video game?

Not at all.

All that needs be ignored at the eliments of game play.

When telling the story you dont say "then optimus picked up more ammo and health".

And running out of ammo due to game play wouldnt be part of the story either.

It's a video game, and changes have to be made to make it one.

Its a form of fiction, that has inhearent issues like all other forms of fiction.

If I'm ignoring any aspects of the game to better fit my personal story continuity preferences that's a big slippery slope.

No "slippery-er slope" then ignoring writer and editor notes in comic book form, or ignoring the narrator of a story.

I cant justify saying "that doesn't matter, that's part of the game"
The whole game is part of the game. If that doesn't matter, why does the story?

Because, one is story, while the other is personal game play.

The results you achieve wont be the same for the next person to play.

But the basic story remains the same for all.Game play doesnt effect the main story.

Shadowman wrote:

Screamfleet wrote:I don't see a difference.
The point is, a game can have different results because of gameplay.

Ammo count is not part of the story. It's gameplay and story segregation. Gameplay does not effect the story.

And yes, some games DO have different results because of options you may take during gameplay...WfC is not one of those games.

Exactly.

Seems awfully selective to say "this matters, and this doesn't"
It's a game, not a story. It's meant to be played, not read.