The Energon Pub

Seibertron wrote:

Seibertron wrote:No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)

Here's another ... FRANK WELKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't believe I didn't have him at the top of the list. At least Activision knows what we want.

That's because the video game and movie are aimed at different markets.

For Gondor! wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

For Gondor! wrote:

Seibertron wrote: you guys have stripped away thing after thing.

No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)
Their ridiculous weapons: 'Nuff said.

And people wonder why fans get upset. It's a laundry list of omissions and deletions, not just the odd controversial issue. When the changes pile up like that it's no wonder people get upset and yet you get called unreasonable if you speak out.

And that's just a short list of some of the most common topics that come up. I've got plenty more

True. No Welker and the overall design aesthetic are very high on my list of complaints. At what point does it stop becoming Transformers when you keep stripping away more and more of the readily identifiable aspects of the show/comics?

I guess we'll find out on the 4th, but i think from what i know so far, it stopped being identifiable Transformers a year and a half ago.

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Seibertron wrote:No Ark
Flames on Prime
Mouth on Prime
Mute Bumblebee
Cannon-fodder Decepticons designed purely for plot devices
Gorilla Starscream
Monster Megatron
"Sam" Witwicky (please tell me he gets the nickname "Spike")
"Ron" Witwicky (would it have been that hard to have called him "William" like he was called in the comic)
Mikeala (seriously, she couldn't have been blonde and called Carly instead?)
Cybertron destroyed
Jazz shorter than Bumblebee
The lack of humanoid faces
The fact that the Decepticons are designed to look like monsters
Transformers being able to scan whatever they want to transform into. (Spoiler: Seriously ... Bumblebee just scans the '08 Camaro after his feelings are hurt because Mikeala and Sam make fun of him for being a 70s Camaro)

Here's another ... FRANK WELKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't believe I didn't have him at the top of the list. At least Activision knows what we want.

That's because the video game and movie are aimed at different markets.

Too true, Paragon. Maybe that's why non-movie-design characters will be in at least some versions of the game!

What really bugs me about all of this, is the arrogance of Bay.
Can I remind you that Bay is no Tim Burton or Spielberg. Can I also remind you that Bay's track record is far inferior to Burton's and Spielberg's. Therefore, how is he in a position to make any creative decisions whatsoever?
I am not one to jump on the bandwagon of 'let's hate on Mike Bay cuz it's cool.' My reasons for disliking him are clear:
You can't be arrogant without having a good track record.
Armageddon was NOT a good film. Did well at the box office but not a good film.
On the other hand, James Cameron's T2 performed well at the box office and was an AMAZING film. Therefore, someone like Cameron can afford to be arrogant and make creative decisions.
This faceplate issue is a big one because the fact is: Prime looks stupid and odd without his faceplate. The whole emotion argument pisses me off because Vader didn't have a mouth, yet he is one of the most popular robotic characters.
I hope Bay realises that if non-fans flock to Die Hard, he will be relying on us to help him make those numbers. Telling fans to F*** off is not a good way going about it.

Leonardo wrote:

Seibertron wrote:Not a fan of it either way though it's a great way for someone to turn this into a political debate by saying "omigod ... look what the Transformers did to their homeworld. We better do something else here on Earth with global warming or whatever crisis is hot at the moment so that we don't destroy our planet as well."

Yes, I can see that political message being snuck in. Not too sure how I feel about that. If they explicitly state it, I'll be annoyed.

You are right. Explicit = annoying. But if done subtly, it could really add alot of impact to the film.

Duo-Prime wrote:It's a shame. People are learning bad behavior from that intolerant numb-skull some people call the president. Trade you free opinions for "protection". Trying to conquer other civilizations in order to secure your own energy needs....hmm, sounds like the Decepticons.

Hey, I hate the President too but I think this is a little out of scope for this forum.

Die Hard is coming out the week before Transformers.

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:Die Hard is coming out the week before Transformers.

So many movies I must see this summer... so little time!

This summer is going to rock in terms of film IMHO.

Conceptron wrote:What really bugs me about all of this, is the arrogance of Bay.
Can I remind you that Bay is no Tim Burton or Spielberg. Can I also remind you that Bay's track record is far inferior to Burton's and Spielberg's. Therefore, how is he in a position to make any creative decisions whatsoever?
I am not one to jump on the bandwagon of 'let's hate on Mike Bay cuz it's cool.' My reasons for disliking him are clear:
You can't be arrogant without having a good track record.
Armageddon was NOT a good film. Did well at the box office but not a good film.
On the other hand, James Cameron's T2 performed well at the box office and was an AMAZING film. Therefore, someone like Cameron can afford to be arrogant and make creative decisions.
This faceplate issue is a big one because the fact is: Prime looks stupid and odd without his faceplate. The whole emotion argument pisses me off because Vader didn't have a mouth, yet he is one of the most popular robotic characters.
I hope Bay realises that if non-fans flock to Die Hard, he will be relying on us to help him make those numbers. Telling fans to F*** off is not a good way going about it.

Thats pretty much my biggest problem as well. Without that, we wouldn't have all these crappy changes. About Die Hard beating out Transformers, i'm not sure. Transformers, regardless of it's deviations, is still a more interesting concept than some dude running around a building barefoot. But most "average" people are dumb and non interesting, so they have a tendency toward the mundane. I think bay is one of those people, so it's hard to tell if it will appeal to "regular joes" or not.

cybertron prime and beast wars primal had the same thing

Heavy B wrote:cybertron prime and beast wars primal had the same thing

Duo Prime wrote:Thats pretty much my biggest problem as well. Without that, we wouldn't have all these crappy changes. About Die Hard beating out Transformers, i'm not sure. Transformers, regardless of it's deviations, is still a more interesting concept than some dude running around a building barefoot. But most "average" people are dumb and non interesting, so they have a tendency toward the mundane. I think bay is one of those people, so it's hard to tell if it will appeal to "regular joes" or not.

Whoa, back up there partner. Die Hard is neither mundane nor dumb. Die Hard (especially Die Hard I) is a classic and significantly influential piece of action film history. I resent being called "dumb" for loving it. What you said is action film blasphemy my friend.

Die Hard 1 was the first time an action movie was something OTHER than stupid. It showed that action movies can be smart and well-made!

EDIT: I messed up the wording, I think it's better now.

Agreed. Die Hard rocked bells. An excellent Christmas movie

Die Hard 2, however, was mince. ...With A Vengeance wasn't bad, but it lost the premise somewhat by being so open.

-Nick

Quaternion wrote:

Duo Prime wrote:Thats pretty much my biggest problem as well. Without that, we wouldn't have all these crappy changes. About Die Hard beating out Transformers, i'm not sure. Transformers, regardless of it's deviations, is still a more interesting concept than some dude running around a building barefoot. But most "average" people are dumb and non interesting, so they have a tendency toward the mundane. I think bay is one of those people, so it's hard to tell if it will appeal to "regular joes" or not.

Whoa, back up there partner. Die Hard is neither mundane nor dumb. Die Hard (especially Die Hard I) is a classic and significantly influential piece of action film history. I resent being called "dumb" for loving it. What you said is action film blasphemy my friend.

Did'nt mean to call any of you here dumb, and personally, i really don't have anything against Die Hard, I am just upset about the whole situation. And besides that, i am to the point now, i could care less about anything less than some sort of sci-fi. I've taken enough S**T in my life about being a geek or whatever, that i've taken a good look at everything else, and to me, it seems the creative stuff is much more thought provoking, which makes us all a little wiser.

Again, Die Hard is not opening up against Transformers. It's coming out the week before.

i find it interesting that these transforming aliens, have so many humanoid features (mouth, etc)

Again, Die Hard is not opening up against Transformers. It's coming out the week before.

Who cares.

Duo Prime wrote:

Quaternion wrote:

Duo Prime wrote:Thats pretty much my biggest problem as well. Without that, we wouldn't have all these crappy changes. About Die Hard beating out Transformers, i'm not sure. Transformers, regardless of it's deviations, is still a more interesting concept than some dude running around a building barefoot. But most "average" people are dumb and non interesting, so they have a tendency toward the mundane. I think bay is one of those people, so it's hard to tell if it will appeal to "regular joes" or not.

Whoa, back up there partner. Die Hard is neither mundane nor dumb. Die Hard (especially Die Hard I) is a classic and significantly influential piece of action film history. I resent being called "dumb" for loving it. What you said is action film blasphemy my friend.

Did'nt mean to call any of you here dumb, and personally, i really don't have anything against Die Hard, I am just upset about the whole situation. And besides that, i am to the point now, i could care less about anything less than some sort of sci-fi. I've taken enough S**T in my life about being a geek or whatever, that i've taken a good look at everything else, and to me, it seems the creative stuff is much more thought provoking, which makes us all a little wiser.

Just to play devil's advocate: how is Transformers more thought provoking than Die Hard? Personally, I would say that neither are particularly "thought provoking". I mean, none of the kids shows from the 80s were particularly thought provoking. They were just fun. I don't expect the Transformers movie to be particularly thought provoking. If you want thought provoking, I urge you to go watch some Kubrik or some Kurosawa films. Alot of it is really good and thought provoking stuff.

AbsumZer0 wrote:

Heavy B wrote:cybertron prime and beast wars primal had the same thing

We've covered this already. Please read through some of the other pages in this thread. Thanks.

Quaternion wrote:Just to play devil's advocate: how is Transformers more thought provoking than Die Hard? Personally, I would say that neither are particularly "thought provoking".

I agree. As I've said many times before, I don't have much problem with the actual story. I really liked the script that I read last year. Yeah, there's a few things that I don't like but whatever. I know I'm not going to be happy about everything. I don't expect to be. My biggest issue is primarily the robot designs and some of the character choices/names.

Quaternion wrote:I mean, none of the kids shows from the 80s were particularly thought provoking. They were just fun. I don't expect the Transformers movie to be particularly thought provoking. If you want thought provoking, I urge you to go watch some Kubrik or some Kurosawa films. Alot of it is really good and thought provoking stuff.

Indeed. Transformers should be a very entertaining movie. I think the folks in charge have indeed accomplished that. I just think they're messing with some of the things that there's no need to mess with because "somebody" thought their idea was better.

Quaternion wrote:

Duo Prime wrote:

Quaternion wrote:

Duo Prime wrote:Thats pretty much my biggest problem as well. Without that, we wouldn't have all these crappy changes. About Die Hard beating out Transformers, i'm not sure. Transformers, regardless of it's deviations, is still a more interesting concept than some dude running around a building barefoot. But most "average" people are dumb and non interesting, so they have a tendency toward the mundane. I think bay is one of those people, so it's hard to tell if it will appeal to "regular joes" or not.

Whoa, back up there partner. Die Hard is neither mundane nor dumb. Die Hard (especially Die Hard I) is a classic and significantly influential piece of action film history. I resent being called "dumb" for loving it. What you said is action film blasphemy my friend.

Did'nt mean to call any of you here dumb, and personally, i really don't have anything against Die Hard, I am just upset about the whole situation. And besides that, i am to the point now, i could care less about anything less than some sort of sci-fi. I've taken enough S**T in my life about being a geek or whatever, that i've taken a good look at everything else, and to me, it seems the creative stuff is much more thought provoking, which makes us all a little wiser.

Just to play devil's advocate: how is Transformers more thought provoking than Die Hard? Personally, I would say that neither are particularly "thought provoking". I mean, none of the kids shows from the 80s were particularly thought provoking. They were just fun. I don't expect the Transformers movie to be particularly thought provoking. If you want thought provoking, I urge you to go watch some Kubrik or some Kurosawa films. Alot of it is really good and thought provoking stuff.

You can see somthing similar to Die Hard by watching the world news. Transformers(not just the G1 "cartoon", or this live action movie) is creative thinking.
I have seen movies by both directors. Eyes wide shut sucked, but some of the others were cool. Seven Samurai and Yojimbo are cool too, but most of these films are heavily based in the real, what everone would accept as fact, realm.

decepticonjon wrote:i find it interesting that these transforming aliens, have so many humanoid features (mouth, etc)

As they should, though if anything, they should have more human like facial features like the Transformers from the past 23 years have had and stayed more true to their past designs. I don't remember anyone criticizing Han Solo and Luke Skywalker for looking human even though they're aliens themselves.

Duo Prime wrote:You can see somthing similar to Die Hard by watch world news. Transformers is creative thinking.

I think this is a matter of perspective. I'm sure plenty of people will look at Transformers and think it's childish whereas some of you are looking at Die Hard and thinking it's mindless action. I'd like to keep this topic on track and limit the Die Hard versus Transformers conversations. That's not what this thread is about.

Maybe when the DVD comes out, like some DVDs have the Widescreen and Fullscreen options, maybe we will get Mouth and Faceplate Options

Seibertron wrote:

decepticonjon wrote:i find it interesting that these transforming aliens, have so many humanoid features (mouth, etc)

As they should, though if anything, they should have more human like facial features like the Transformers from the past 23 years have had and stayed more true to their past designs. I don't remember anyone criticizing Han Solo and Luke Skywalker for looking human even though they're aliens themselves.

Han and Luke are Humans of non-terrestrial origin, but they are still humans.