The Energon Pub

With the cassettes they could also just make them much fatter and square in "cassette" mode then make Soundwaves chest all hollow. Much like the Voyager Soundwave and Core Ravage in SS Bumblebee. That way core class bot modes look way better and still fit in Voyager Soundwave. I mean, they already did it and do we really need them to be actual cassette shaped?

Moonshot wrote:With the cassettes they could also just make them much fatter and square in "cassette" mode then make Soundwaves chest all hollow. Much like the Voyager Soundwave and Core Ravage in SS Bumblebee. That way core class bot modes look way better and still fit in Voyager Soundwave. I mean, they already did it and do we really need them to be actual cassette shaped?

I agree... If anything, I don't want the bot mode to suffer at all, so why not modify the cassette mode if it's going to make compatibility, scale, etc. work out in the best possible way for multiple figures.

I'm sure some would say that Seige and NF have given Soundwave enough of the spotlight, but if a new design is going to house new Core class cassette figures, then why not?
Those who would initially say they're current Soundwave is "good enough" would probably see some value in the cassettes being stand-alone-worthy figures.
And again, a new Soundwave figure could also be improved in and of itself... Ditch that stupid landing gear crap from the forearms, and include forearm covers instead!!
And as I mentioned before, pack-in a cassette character that doesn't make the regular Core class release line-up, and that will help justify the $55 price tag.
It would be like a built-in Core exclusive.

For a long time, fans relied on logic and leakers to get answers as to why certain toys come out a certain way but now we live in a golden age of information where designers will speak directly to us about all the minutia of specific designs. You can currently get that info from Transformers designers Evan Brooks, Mark Maher and Sam Smith who all post too frequently for us to get to it all.

But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size. You can read that in the blurb he did on SS86 Hot Rod, which you can read below.

The same designer, Evan, also made a post on SS86 Slug where he wrote this at the end, referring to the Dinobots: "We'll get to all of them at this scale, eventually!"

Now that message goes a long way. Firstly, it does say that Swoop and Snarl are in the pipeline but more importantly it brings in the idea of scale, where all the G1 Dinobots were in the same scale. So that dispells the (never verified) rumours of Swoop being a voyager.

We also learn that the Takara designer behind the Dinobots was Hasui san, the same fabled designer behind MP-10, HFTD leader Starscream, Prime Starscream and Combiner Wars Devastator.

SS86 Hot Rod: https://www.instagram.com/p/CcT189ZOAKc/

I will admit that this figure was pretty much completely designed by the time I joined the team so all praise goes to Yuya Onishi for really setting a new standard for transformers figures. I find this figure absolutely brilliant and bumping him up to a VOY scale allowed for the extra engineering and accessories to really make him stand out.

So, those yellow pieces on top! Yes, they hurt. They needed to be PA plastic due to the flexibility of those hinges and that isn't a type of plastic we can paint. His giant wing spoiler was in the same mold so we were locked to that color. We didn't have room to move pieces to different molds because of the type of material they needed to be.

The other thing I'm sure you're all wondering about is the rest of his colors and I can certainly talk to that!

Before we move to final production, we have a big team meeting where we all come together and look at the figures and deco before approving them. While presenting this item and the first wave of kingdom, there was some rumbling from upper management. The original colors presented were pure magenta and that came as a bit of a shock to a few folks. The reaction is understandable, every toy of classic Hotrod has been some variation of red. There was some back and forth, references shown on both sides as to what colors he should be and this is how he ended up.
I was still so new to the team that my voice didn't carry that much weight even while showing clips of the 86 movie. I think there was still some confusion as to what this SS86 line was supposed to be but I'm happy to say that this was the only time this sort of thing has ever happened. Granted, Kingdom Cheetor and Megatron also had their colors shifted in this meeting...which was just strange...but that's corporate life.

Anyway, as I said before this figure is just amazing and really brought the engineering of a Transformer to the next level. Takara Tomy outdid themselves, but what do you all think? Let me know and I'll drop some more SS86 behind the scenes for you!

SS86 Slug: https://www.instagram.com/p/CdZC4sGuusH/

Make sure to check out Mark's and Bmac's page for details on the Wrecker program!
@markclonus @bmacatron84

Continuing with Studio Series 86 Dinobots, here we have 86 Slug and Daniel!

Just to clarify, Slug had a slightly different name in the 80's that has since been shifted since words can mean different things in different countries.

As you can see from the images, this is a Hasui san item (as are all the dinobots) so you can see it's chocked full of wonderful detail that references the G1 toy while having the proportions and design elements of the Cartoon animation model.

We began development on Slug and Daniel right after Grimlock so we had a better understanding of what we could do at this pricepoint and scale.

We wanted to make sure we got Daniel in at some form since we hadn't solidified bringing Core Class over to SS just yet so that's why he was chosen as an accessory character.

Other than that, there isn't much to tell!
Development went incredibly smooth for Slug. Deco wise, colors were lifted right from Grimlock to make sure they all looked like they're on the same team (as they should!).

Deco was based on his Animation model instead of his toy so red head and silver horns.

My one regret is we had to remove the little silver hits on the helmet to meet our deco quota. Whenever I have to remove paint, I always try to pick areas that are at least easy for consumers to apply themselves if they need to add them.

I know the dinobots are some folks favorite Transformer characters but which team member is your favorite?
We'll get to all of them at this scale, eventually!

Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.

sol magnus wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.

Nice… I wouldn’t call it a “fix”… More of an adjustment.
And it looks better, right?

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Yes, that relieves me too

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Yes, that relieves me too

I just hope “eventually” doesn’t mean 2+ years from now!!

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader. While it would be appropriate for all of the Dinobots to be the same size we know there's this weird preconceived notion that Swoop is smaller. If Hasbro shares that notion then they might view a tall Voyager as being the same scale as a bunch of tall Leaders. I don't know, I'm still not entirely convinced Hasbro will do this right.

That aside a thought occurred to me. The Netflix line is long over and only Walmart can currently release the G1 Soundwave and VW Bumblebee molds, I wonder if Hasbro has ever pitched to them an exclusive SS86 redeco release of them similar to what we've seen with Cliffjumper and Kup at Target? Surely they must have at some point, right? If not that then retro packaged releases like they most recently did with the Headmasters. Hasbro knows how badly people want a second shot at these molds, they must have pitched a second release of some sort.

Emerje

Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

DeathReviews wrote:Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

I think that's what will happen with Swoop, there won't be anything complex with him, but his wings will gobble up plastic, even then though, I think he'll have extras. What this would be, is anyone's guess.

(More human characters? Toy accurate weapons for everyone?)

ZeroWolf wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

I think that's what will happen with Swoop, there won't be anything complex with him, but his wings will gobble up plastic, even then though, I think he'll have extras. What this would be, is anyone's guess.

(More human characters? Toy accurate weapons for everyone?)

He had a big adventure with Carly, assuming he's not in Studio Series 86.

william-james88 wrote:But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size.

And that's fine to a certain extent but if they plan to use that excuse to justify releasing a smaller Bot like say Bee or Cliff Jumper in the Voyager price it then becomes an issue, because IMO there's only so much "complexity" you can pack into a small robot. And frankly I don't see how Hot Rod can be considered Voyager while Perceptor is not, according to their website he only lacks 9 steps compared to Hot Rod. The same amount that Blaster has yet he's a Voyager, so does that mean Eject costs $11?

Plus what does that say for the new Elita-1 at only 14 steps to Perceptor's 20, and does that mean it has to be at least 14 steps to be a DLX Bot? What happens if it only takes ten steps to transform will they create a new class or just lump it all in the same having people pay more for a lesser toy?

This is a slippery slope when you consider Hasbro's the one who decides where the bot goes based on complexity as they could simply over design it to fit that higher price point. I've seen this kind of in house manipulation happen before.

Till-all-R1 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size.

And that's fine to a certain extent but if they plan to use that excuse to justify releasing a smaller Bot like say Bee or Cliff Jumper in the Voyager price it then becomes an issue, because IMO there's only so much "complexity" you can pack into a small robot. And frankly I don't see how Hot Rod can be considered Voyager while Perceptor is not, according to their website he only lacks 9 steps compared to Hot Rod. The same amount that Blaster has yet he's a Voyager, so does that mean Eject costs $11?

Plus what does that say for the new Elita-1 at only 14 steps to Perceptor's 20, and does that mean it has to be at least 14 steps to be a DLX Bot? What happens if it only takes ten steps to transform will they create a new class or just lump it all in the same having people pay more for a lesser toy?

This is a slippery slope when you consider Hasbro's the one who decides where the bot goes based on complexity as they could simply over design it to fit that higher price point. I've seen this kind of in house manipulation happen before.

Remember accessories count as well, which means smaller bots will come with more stuff. Also, can it really be classed as in house manipulation if their just changing their rules? It's mot like some non-hasbro entity set the rules for price points snd the class distinctions.

Emerje wrote:Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader.

In the same article you can see the same designer using "scale" to mean class. he literally calls Hot Rod a "voyager scale" even though we know it's not a typical voyager size. From reading that designer's words, he is simply saying that the remaining dinobots will all be leaders.

NOW, that doesn't mean Swoop won't be shorter. They could make him have a big wingspan and compensate the use of plastic by making him shorter. Would be innacurate though. We'll see.

Till-all-R1 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:But we wanted to get some info we found interesting since it does confirm certain things. While it was obvious for many, some fans like hearing it from the horse's mouth and now the designer who worked on SS86 Hot Rod has confirmed that the "voyager" class no longer refers to just a specific size but it is now a price point where a transformer with more parts/engineering could end up regardless of its size.

And that's fine to a certain extent but if they plan to use that excuse to justify releasing a smaller Bot like say Bee or Cliff Jumper in the Voyager price it then becomes an issue, because IMO there's only so much "complexity" you can pack into a small robot. And frankly I don't see how Hot Rod can be considered Voyager while Perceptor is not, according to their website he only lacks 9 steps compared to Hot Rod. The same amount that Blaster has yet he's a Voyager, so does that mean Eject costs $11?

Plus what does that say for the new Elita-1 at only 14 steps to Perceptor's 20, and does that mean it has to be at least 14 steps to be a DLX Bot? What happens if it only takes ten steps to transform will they create a new class or just lump it all in the same having people pay more for a lesser toy?

This is a slippery slope when you consider Hasbro's the one who decides where the bot goes based on complexity as they could simply over design it to fit that higher price point. I've seen this kind of in house manipulation happen before.

Engineering doesn't just mean complexity, it also reffers to articulation and moving parts. You are assuming that more steps means more moving parts but that may not be the case at all times since you may need several moving parts to complete one step.

Also, what you describe in the begining has been happening for years. MP Bumblebee is a deluxe sized figure sold at the commander class point due to it's complexity. MP Trailbreaker is a leader sized figure sold at the titan class price point. That philosophy is now being expanded to any line aimed at fans.

Emerje wrote:Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader. While it would be appropriate for all of the Dinobots to be the same size we know there's this weird preconceived notion that Swoop is smaller. If Hasbro shares that notion then they might view a tall Voyager as being the same scale as a bunch of tall Leaders. I don't know, I'm still not entirely convinced Hasbro will do this right.

That aside a thought occurred to me. The Netflix line is long over and only Walmart can currently release the G1 Soundwave and VW Bumblebee molds, I wonder if Hasbro has ever pitched to them an exclusive SS86 redeco release of them similar to what we've seen with Cliffjumper and Kup at Target? Surely they must have at some point, right? If not that then retro packaged releases like they most recently did with the Headmasters. Hasbro knows how badly people want a second shot at these molds, they must have pitched a second release of some sort.

Emerje

I understand not trusting that Hastak is going to do the right thing... There's still a chance of that.
However, here's the thing:
ER Optimus is one of the tallest voyager class figures, and he's pretty small compared to these 3 new Dinobots:

The seekers, Soundwave, and Blaster are all legit voyagers, and they're even slightly shorter than Prime.
I know you said "tall voyager", but add an inch to OP and the top of his head is still just below the height of Sludge's shoulder. Which yeah, some people don't care and would be fine with.
Hastak has done a pretty bang-up job with the proportions of recent figures, and that's one thing I feel confident that they'll get right here.
Considering this, IF Swoop is shorter, that also means that his torso, limbs, and pretty much everything, must be smaller... Otherwise he's going to look much too stout.
So being shorter also means he's going to be on the scrawny side... Which will make the difference in height highlight the overall difference in size.
I also get that Swoop's limbs were already smaller/more trim than those of the other 4.
Again, this will only be overly emphasized if they make him too small compared to the rest.
On top of this, also factor in that Swoop is going to require 1/3 if not 1/4 of the engineering of the others... Think about the transformation of Slag's legs and upper torso... Swoop doesn't need anything close to either of those areas. He also doesn't have any more overall deco than the others.
Imo if they do this character justice, he'll have 3 hinges for each wing. I'd also hope that his dino head can swivel/rotate as well as have some downward as well as a little upward movement.
The point being, by using some more plastic in making him larger, Hastak is going to get to charge full leader class price for a figure that doesn't actually require the same production costs as the others.
And I believe that Sludge has started the trend of nixing any additional pack-in's.
I know some (including me) have wishful thinking that Swoop could be packed with multiple swords, or even fire-colored blast effects... But I really doubt either of those will happen.

In terms of your thought on Soundwave being a Walmart exclusive, yeah, I think it's a safe assumption something was pitched... But who knows... I would think some exclusivity rights start and end with that specific release. Seems stupid to lock that down to one retailer for an indefinite span of time.

DeathReviews wrote:Glad to hear that Snarl/Swoop will be the same 'scale' as Leader Grimlock/Slag/Sludge. That would have been dumb, having Snarl as a dinky little wussy-boy next to the others. As Death, I choose to remain cautiously optimistic. Swoop may be able to get away with being smaller in his body, but if the wings are massive, then he could still appear even larger than the other Dinobots. A huge wingspan can create the illusion of greater size, even if he might not have as much mass.

Sorry, Death... I have the opposite view... Huge wings attached to a tiny torso will look even more ridiculous. And again, with Hastak's recent releases, I don't see that happening.
As stated in the designer's own post, they're going off of character models.

Sorry, Death... I have the opposite view... Huge wings attached to a tiny torso will look even more ridiculous. And again, with Hastak's recent releases, I don't see that happening.
As stated in the designer's own post, they're going off of character models.

Fair enough - at the moment, we can only guess. But I'm thinking along the lines of Wingfinger. As a deluxe, that figure was willowy, light and had much less substance than you would normally see in a deluxe. But when you set it side by side with 'normal' deluxes like Sunstreaker, Skids, or Spinister - Wingfinger kind of LOOKS bigger if you spread the wings out.



Swoop's animation model still has the wings spread out so that they are at least as wide as two of the other dinobots standing side-by-side. It's hard to find in-cartoon shots of all the dinobots in alt mode, bunched close together, because Swoop's wings take up a lot of room. Normally they have Swoop flying high above the others, or tucked into the background behind the other dinobots. Otherwise, his wings would be covering up most of the screen, and they couldn't have THAT now, could they?



If the scale in THIS shot carries over to the figures, then Swoop could wind up looking pretty darn big. Fold the wings up for robot mode, and yeah, he might look no more substantial than Grimlock.

But again - we must wait and see what they ACTUALLY do.

I wonder how Swoop will look, Dino mode will be very boxy and silly LOL. (but accurate)
What I'd really like too see is Studio Series 86 Devastator, but it probably won't happen

william-james88 wrote:

Emerje wrote:Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but saying "same scale" isn't the same as saying "same size". A small 4" Deluxe Transformer can still be in the same scale as a 7" Leader.

In the same article you can see the same designer using "scale" to mean class. he literally calls Hot Rod a "voyager scale" even though we know it's not a typical voyager size. From reading that designer's words, he is simply saying that the remaining dinobots will all be leaders.

NOW, that doesn't mean Swoop won't be shorter. They could make him have a big wingspan and compensate the use of plastic by making him shorter. Would be inaccurate though. We'll see."


Sorry, all above this is quoted, Seibertron just didn't code it correctly.

I have Hot Rod, and I think the voyager price point is worth it, he comes with a truckload of accessories! But Override has me worried. If we pay voyager for "extra paint apps" has gone power hungry and lazy. I hope Prime Vs Prime was missing something, otherwise it's insane! I don't see how they could compensate for a smaller swoop, I can't think of many "accurate" accessories. He will most likely be leader sized.

Compensating for voyager when it's a deluxe with accessories is fine, as long as it has a LOT of accessories. But it is technically lying when the packaging doesn't mention that it's shorter with more accessories.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Awesome post!
Thanks, William!

And seriously, what a relief to know we’ll get all of the Dinobots at the current leader scale!!!!

Yes, that relieves me too

I just hope “eventually” doesn’t mean 2+ years from now!!

LOL that would take a while, and by then third parties would start making unofficial studio series!

I did fix spike's arms, btw.[/quote]


Now there are two Studio Series Spikes!

Devastator, OBVIOUSLY
But it probably won't happen sadly because of and

SS86 Hot Rod is an absolute bitch to transform. My hats off to the designers as he really is an engineering marvel, but he’s definitely a toy that will forever remain in robot form on my shelf.

I hope this means they finish the Live-Action Dinobots later

Day 870 of waiting for Transformers Armada Masterpiece news.

TOO MUCH ENERGON! wrote:SS86 Hot Rod is an absolute bitch to transform. My hats off to the designers as he really is an engineering marvel, but he’s definitely a toy that will forever remain in robot form on my shelf.

Really? He's involved, but he's not particularly complex.

He's more awkward than difficult I would say. and that's just the arms and torso portion that you need to rotate around.

The Legs and the backpack are fairly straight forward.

It is on a completely different level engineering wise to say Kingdom Blaster and also has a couple more features than blaster which adds to the engineering complexity.

Its a great figure well worth the Voyager price tag if you ask me. Much like Commander Class Rodimus makes great use of the available budget for the main robot.

I wish G2 Prime would have been a commander Class figure.