The Energon Pub

No surprise, but this guy is packaged in bot mode.

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

There is no doubt he's impressive. Something still looks off about it though, almost as if it's too clean. Not that I like battle damage/scarring like ER Megs or Galvatron got but UM's deco looks too "new".

Till-all-R1 wrote:There is no doubt he's impressive. Something still looks off about it though, almost as if it's too clean. Not that I like battle damage/scarring like ER Megs or Galvatron got but UM's deco looks too "new".

That's because the deco is "cartoon accurate."

Still, I bet that Toyhax will make a "toy deco" sticker sheet sooner than later.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Class isn't size. "Voyager class" doesn't mean seven inches tall or whatever. I can't speak to whether we're arguing about concepts or terminology, but at least one of them has to change.

Practically speaking, if the ask is an SS86 Hot Rod that is to animation scale in robot mode with commander class Ultra Magnus, that's going to be a leader class toy.

PrimeVsPrime has a video review of Studio Series Ultra Magnus.



~ Grim

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Class isn't size. "Voyager class" doesn't mean seven inches tall or whatever. I can't speak to whether we're arguing about concepts or terminology, but at least one of them has to change.

Practically speaking, if the ask is an SS86 Hot Rod that is to animation scale in robot mode with commander class Ultra Magnus, that's going to be a leader class toy.

The whole point was that Hot Rod is going to be one of the figures that will be way too small compared to this new Magnus, and new leader class Springer and OP.
While I love SS86 Hot Rod, Hastak loves profits more.
By the time a new Hot Rod is released, a voyager class figure will be $45-ish.
I could totally see Hastak simply upscaling the current mold, and possibly making his color lean more towards magenta. And by the time this happens, some people would bite.
I’m pretty okay with the Buzzworthy Kup, but he’ll be too small as well.
And SS86 Blurr is probably the biggest letdown of the entire subline. Improvements along with increased size will probably welcomed by many.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Class isn't size. "Voyager class" doesn't mean seven inches tall or whatever. I can't speak to whether we're arguing about concepts or terminology, but at least one of them has to change.

Practically speaking, if the ask is an SS86 Hot Rod that is to animation scale in robot mode with commander class Ultra Magnus, that's going to be a leader class toy.

The whole point was that Hot Rod is going to be one of the figures that will be way too small compared to this new Magnus, and new leader class Springer and OP.
While I love SS86 Hot Rod, Hastak loves profits more.
By the time a new Hot Rod is released, a voyager class figure will be $45-ish.
I could totally see Hastak simply upscaling the current mold, and possibly making his color lean more towards magenta. And by the time this happens, some people would bite.
I’m pretty okay with the Buzzworthy Kup, but he’ll be too small as well.
And SS86 Blurr is probably the biggest letdown of the entire subline. Improvements along with increased size will probably welcomed by many.

I understand the concept, and I'm fine with it. An upscaled redecoed version of a voyager class figure would not be a voyager class figure. I also imagine they'd revisit the engineering and accessories and in any event, you're now describing a leader class figure.

And with that in mind, I think it's worth thinking again about how manufacturers use different product points generally and how Hasbro uses classes specifically. There are always more deluxes than voyagers, and more of those than leaders. You're talking about half a year's worth of figures, and you're not going to size up the Decepticons to match? When we just got new versions of them just a couple of years ago? It's all possible, I would probably even like it! I just don't think it's very realistic or likely.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Class isn't size. "Voyager class" doesn't mean seven inches tall or whatever. I can't speak to whether we're arguing about concepts or terminology, but at least one of them has to change.

Practically speaking, if the ask is an SS86 Hot Rod that is to animation scale in robot mode with commander class Ultra Magnus, that's going to be a leader class toy.

The whole point was that Hot Rod is going to be one of the figures that will be way too small compared to this new Magnus, and new leader class Springer and OP.
While I love SS86 Hot Rod, Hastak loves profits more.
By the time a new Hot Rod is released, a voyager class figure will be $45-ish.
I could totally see Hastak simply upscaling the current mold, and possibly making his color lean more towards magenta. And by the time this happens, some people would bite.
I’m pretty okay with the Buzzworthy Kup, but he’ll be too small as well.
And SS86 Blurr is probably the biggest letdown of the entire subline. Improvements along with increased size will probably welcomed by many.

TlDr; OVERSIZE EVERYTHING!

Isn't that a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit ridiculous just because of ONE figure?

Also, yeah. SS 86 Blurr is indeed garbage. The Titan Return mold is the best so far, despite the Headmaster gimmick.

It probably is ridiculous because for many of us the previous UM is just fine. So there's no need to rebuy everything to to be in scale to the new figure even if Hasbro does that.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Class isn't size. "Voyager class" doesn't mean seven inches tall or whatever. I can't speak to whether we're arguing about concepts or terminology, but at least one of them has to change.

Practically speaking, if the ask is an SS86 Hot Rod that is to animation scale in robot mode with commander class Ultra Magnus, that's going to be a leader class toy.

The whole point was that Hot Rod is going to be one of the figures that will be way too small compared to this new Magnus, and new leader class Springer and OP.
While I love SS86 Hot Rod, Hastak loves profits more.
By the time a new Hot Rod is released, a voyager class figure will be $45-ish.
I could totally see Hastak simply upscaling the current mold, and possibly making his color lean more towards magenta. And by the time this happens, some people would bite.
I’m pretty okay with the Buzzworthy Kup, but he’ll be too small as well.
And SS86 Blurr is probably the biggest letdown of the entire subline. Improvements along with increased size will probably welcomed by many.

TlDr; OVERSIZE EVERYTHING!

Isn't that a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit ridiculous just because of ONE figure?

Also, yeah. SS 86 Blurr is indeed garbage. The Titan Return mold is the best so far, despite the Headmaster gimmick.

It's ridiculous ridiculous, not merely 'a weeeeeeeeeee bit'. Ultra Magnus is simply an outlier, because he HAS to be able to carry cars in vehicle mode for....reasons.

I fully expect Springer to be in the 'smaller side' of scale compared to UM, because UM is oversized for what he actually is. Next, we going to do a whole new set of Dinobots so they can also be larger than UM? No, I don't think we are. Or they are.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:It does have me wondering if this new Leader class Springer (and eventually OP) means that the door is being opened to making voyager class versions of Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and maybe even Hot Rod.
Seems like Wreck-gar may be one who is still pretty much in-scale with this new Magnus.

How soon we forget ... the last Hot Rod we got was voyager class.

In price and engineering. Not in size.

Class isn't size. "Voyager class" doesn't mean seven inches tall or whatever. I can't speak to whether we're arguing about concepts or terminology, but at least one of them has to change.

Practically speaking, if the ask is an SS86 Hot Rod that is to animation scale in robot mode with commander class Ultra Magnus, that's going to be a leader class toy.

The whole point was that Hot Rod is going to be one of the figures that will be way too small compared to this new Magnus, and new leader class Springer and OP.
While I love SS86 Hot Rod, Hastak loves profits more.
By the time a new Hot Rod is released, a voyager class figure will be $45-ish.
I could totally see Hastak simply upscaling the current mold, and possibly making his color lean more towards magenta. And by the time this happens, some people would bite.
I’m pretty okay with the Buzzworthy Kup, but he’ll be too small as well.
And SS86 Blurr is probably the biggest letdown of the entire subline. Improvements along with increased size will probably welcomed by many.

TlDr; OVERSIZE EVERYTHING!

Isn't that a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit ridiculous just because of ONE figure?

Also, yeah. SS 86 Blurr is indeed garbage. The Titan Return mold is the best so far, despite the Headmaster gimmick.

I agree, Titans Return Blurr is way better. For that matter, Titans Return Kup is way better than SS as well!

Starseeker wrote: Titans Return Kup is way better than SS as well!

You can say that again. TR Kup is straightfoward.

The SS86 tried to reinvent the wheel by adding some unnecessary fiddleness and they had that very annoying arms-falling-off gimmick that needs to be killed with fire.

Funny how people like to jump on one aspect of one post and exaggerate the hell put of it.
No one said every figure would need to be increased in size.
I thought at least someone would catch on that I was referring to the other figures in this subline, and mainly, the characters that were introduced in the movie.
And sure, maybe this new Springer won’t be any larger…
But I’m betting he will be. Same thing with a new OP.
I made this point in an older post; the larger bots could stand to be a bit larger. Not by much, but again, the car bot characters and the minibots should be smaller in comparison to Prime, Springer, etc.
And it’s only a handful of characters/figures, even when you include Decepticons.
Granted, Magnus is too big, but I was one who agreed Galvatron was a bit too big.
As much as I love Kingdom Cyclonus, I would not be opposed to having a new version where he’s a full head or two taller than Galvatron.

Besides the facesculpts for Kup & Blurr, the likenesses of all these figures are on point.
In my mind, about the only change that could be made for a few of these smaller SS86 figures would be to make them larger. I’m not saying that’s something that needs to happen. I’m also not saying that’s THE aspect that makes producing future versions worth while.
And maybe SS86 has brought us the last versions of these characters we’ll ever see in figure-form.
But that’s pretty difficult to believe. At least for me.
Oh, and these thoughts are not me saying there should be a priority or rush to make any of these movie characters again.
Pretty sure by the time that happens, my collecting days will be over.

I think it’s fair to say SS86 has done well
(which is part of why we’re getting this UM so soon).
In just over 3 years when the big anniversary of the movie lands, I won’t be shocked if we see a few of these characters get new figures.
No one should be surprised that Hastak will try and milk this as much and for as long as they predict profits to be good.

Sowndwave76 wrote:Funny how people like to jump on one aspect of one post and exaggerate the hell put of it.
No one said every figure would need to be increased in size.
I thought at least someone would catch on that I was referring to the other figures in this subline, and mainly, the characters that were introduced in the movie.
And sure, maybe this new Springer won’t be any larger…
But I’m betting he will be. Same thing with a new OP.
I made this point in an older post; the larger bots could stand to be a bit larger. Not by much, but again, the car bot characters and the minibots should be smaller in comparison to Prime, Springer, etc.
And it’s only a handful of characters/figures, even when you include Decepticons.
Granted, Magnus is too big, but I was one who agreed Galvatron was a bit too big.
As much as I love Kingdom Cyclonus, I would not be opposed to having a new version where he’s a full head or two taller than Galvatron.

Besides the facesculpts for Kup & Blurr, the likenesses of all these figures are on point.
In my mind, about the only change that could be made for a few of these smaller SS86 figures would be to make them larger. I’m not saying that’s something that needs to happen. I’m also not saying that’s THE aspect that makes producing future versions worth while.
And maybe SS86 has brought us the last versions of these characters we’ll ever see in figure-form.
But that’s pretty difficult to believe. At least for me.
Oh, and these thoughts are not me saying there should be a priority or rush to make any of these movie characters again.
Pretty sure by the time that happens, my collecting days will be over.

I think it’s fair to say SS86 has done well
(which is part of why we’re getting this UM so soon).
In just over 3 years when the big anniversary of the movie lands, I won’t be shocked if we see a few of these characters get new figures.
No one should be surprised that Hastak will try and milk this as much and for as long as they predict profits to be good.

Guess I'm guilty of that to some extent, but while you might be right on some things, I don't see Springer necessarily being any bigger than the Siege version - he'll just have a higher parts count. We'll see - obviously sizing certain things up is on the table since it's already been done with Ultra Magnus. I just sayu we'll see on this one.

I agree with you on the SS86 deluxes - Kup and Blurr are spot on besides the portraits. Sometimes I think they get things 'wrong' on purpose, because they can always issue a new figure down the line.

sol magnus wrote:Guess I'm guilty of that to some extent, but while you might be right on some things, I don't see Springer necessarily being any bigger than the Siege version - he'll just have a higher parts count. We'll see - obviously sizing certain things up is on the table since it's already been done with Ultra Magnus. I just sayu we'll see on this one.

I agree with you on the SS86 deluxes - Kup and Blurr are spot on besides the portraits. Sometimes I think they get things 'wrong' on purpose, because they can always issue a new figure down the line.

Here’s how I’m looking at a leader class Springer—
If they pulled off the triple-changer engineering at the voyager class price point, I see both the engineering and the size of this new version increasing. I know $20 added to the retail price doesn’t mean it’s exactly $20-worth that’s gone into the figure, but I’m still betting this new version is bigger…. And I forgot to mention it in my previous post, but I’ll call it now that this new Springer has a bot mode that at least matches the stature of SS86 Wreck-gar.

I’ve had the exact same thought about figures having minor “issues” with appearances so there’s “reason(s)” to make another version later on. I truly believe that scheme has been in place for a long, long time.

I know some of my posts tend to have speculation woven-into them, but one thing I’m very confident in assuming— we could get another Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and Hot Rod in 3-5 years, but I really don’t know how Hastak would pull-off improved (or larger) Dinobots at a Leader class proce point.
As much as I love those figures, it’s clear they took a short-cut or three with each one…. And I’m not even including the lack of swords (or a blaster for Snarl).
All this to say, I really think it will be a really long time before we see any more screen-accurate, leader class Dinobots.
I see these guys being treated like most of the CW combiners and not being re-visited for around 10+ years.

Refresh my memory. Is the listing for Leader class Springer for SS86 or for Legacy? Cuz, if it's the latter, it's possible that it could be a different Springer design from the classic 1986 one, like IDW Springer or something.

Sabrblade wrote:Refresh my memory. Is the listing for Leader class Springer for SS86 or for Legacy? Cuz, if it's the latter, it's possible that it could be a different Springer design from the classic 1986 one, like IDW Springer or something.

I believe it's for ss86

Sowndwave76 wrote:I know some of my posts tend to have speculation woven-into them, but one thing I’m very confident in assuming— we could get another Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and Hot Rod in 3-5 years, but I really don’t know how Hastak would pull-off improved (or larger) Dinobots at a Leader class proce point.

I would hope if those characters are revisited, it's in legacy. I'd love a tf animated blurr
I still have my generations kup but a new idw kup would be dope
Hot Rod idk. I'm good on that character already

Sowndwave76 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:Guess I'm guilty of that to some extent, but while you might be right on some things, I don't see Springer necessarily being any bigger than the Siege version - he'll just have a higher parts count. We'll see - obviously sizing certain things up is on the table since it's already been done with Ultra Magnus. I just sayu we'll see on this one.

I agree with you on the SS86 deluxes - Kup and Blurr are spot on besides the portraits. Sometimes I think they get things 'wrong' on purpose, because they can always issue a new figure down the line.

Here’s how I’m looking at a leader class Springer—
If they pulled off the triple-changer engineering at the voyager class price point, I see both the engineering and the size of this new version increasing. I know $20 added to the retail price doesn’t mean it’s exactly $20-worth that’s gone into the figure, but I’m still betting this new version is bigger…. And I forgot to mention it in my previous post, but I’ll call it now that this new Springer has a bot mode that at least matches the stature of SS86 Wreck-gar.

I’ve had the exact same thought about figures having minor “issues” with appearances so there’s “reason(s)” to make another version later on. I truly believe that scheme has been in place for a long, long time.

I know some of my posts tend to have speculation woven-into them, but one thing I’m very confident in assuming— we could get another Kup, Blurr, Arcee, and Hot Rod in 3-5 years, but I really don’t know how Hastak would pull-off improved (or larger) Dinobots at a Leader class proce point.
As much as I love those figures, it’s clear they took a short-cut or three with each one…. And I’m not even including the lack of swords (or a blaster for Snarl).
All this to say, I really think it will be a really long time before we see any more screen-accurate, leader class Dinobots.
I see these guys being treated like most of the CW combiners and not being re-visited for around 10+ years.

My counter to say Springer stays the same general size is Legacy Blitzwing. He's the same height as Voyager / "Leader" Class Starscream - shoulder height to Voyager/Leader Optimus Prime and Voyager Megatron, as that's his 'cartoon height'. Blitzwing obviously has more engineering and parts than Siege Springer, but they made him the 'correct' size. They absolutely can make them the 'correct' size. We've had 4 years of them doing it with very few errors - I would say the errors didn't even start until Kingdom Blaster, who was one of the figures who came after John Warden left the team.

tdlr; We will just have to see, as there are reasons to think one or the other.

As far as the other movie guys, it's a laydown SOME of them will get new to newish versions for the 40th Anniversary - in two years time no less. I'll still be collecting odds and ends at that point, but I do feel like you I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

sol magnus wrote:My counter to say Springer stays the same general size is Legacy Blitzwing. He's the same height as Voyager / "Leader" Class Starscream - shoulder height to Voyager/Leader Optimus Prime and Voyager Megatron, as that's his 'cartoon height'. Blitzwing obviously has more engineering and parts than Siege Springer, but they made him the 'correct' size. They absolutely can make them the 'correct' size. We've had 4 years of them doing it with very few errors - I would say the errors didn't even start until Kingdom Blaster, who was one of the figures who came after John Warden left the team.

tdlr; We will just have to see, as there are reasons to think one or the other.

As far as the other movie guys, it's a laydown SOME of them will get new to newish versions for the 40th Anniversary - in two years time no less. I'll still be collecting odds and ends at that point, but I do feel like you I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I’ve found a few images of scale charts.
Of course I understand even these could be slightly off.
In fact I’ll call attention now to the one with Blitzy; his feet look like they’re higher than they should be relatively to the line those characters are “standing on”.
Since I’m talking about him; Blitzwing is supposed to be taller than Starscream, and almost as tall as Megatron. It’s not in the chart, but I’m guessing he’s shorter than Megatron but taller than Soundwave. Who is also taller than Starscream.
So in toy-form, I think they have Starscream right, but Blitzwing slightly too short.

Then look at the image of the Autobots chart…
Springer is supposed to be right at the height of Prime. And if this is inaccurate, I’d say he’s supposed to be just barely shorter, and I mean less than half a head.
Springer is a beefcake of a bot (his design was influenced by Arnold Schwarzenegger).

So there are characters; Springer, Prime, Megatron, Soundwave, Shockwave (and definitely Cyclonus) who should be a bit larger the next time they get a new figure.
By enlarging these, it actually makes the scale of every smaller character more accurate.
I know no one was questioning this per se, just pointing it out.
Obvsly, I have no evidence that the new Springer will be bigger than the Siege version; it’s just a gut feeling.

In the grand scheme, this has nothing to do with this new Ultra Magnus…. It just brought this subject to light for me for since he is so large (and yes, too large).

Hilariously, they have Wreck-Gar with his knees bent, but he's supposed to be the same height as Springer/ Optimus.

They show Bltizwing as taller than Astrotrain, but that was definitely not the case in the animation. Of course, these things are somewhat flexible, but even though that's the size they had him on the guide he was the same height in the show.

If I never see another scale chart again it'll be too soon

For some reason it always irked me that Shockwave isn't at least as tall as Megatron. Probably because I'm a G1 comics fan 1st and there he was every bit Megatron's equal and in some instances even his superior. He was also portrayed as being able to stare Megatron down, in their close up panels being at least the same height. Also, I always viewed Shockwave as ranked above Starscream and Soundwave even when Megatron was the leader, so he should be a bit taller than them. But of course animation models are sacred, and we must all abide.