Takara Legends Manga Thread

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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Burn » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:58 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?

I see what you did there. Image
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:08 pm

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Burn wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?

I see what you did there. Image


Sigh... :roll:
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Burn » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:16 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Burn wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?

I see what you did there. Image


Sigh... :roll:


Oh lighten up buttercup. FFS, I was just trying to have a bit of fun.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:23 pm

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I thought Legends would keep on going considering that it did not start with Titans returns figures but rather it started with thrilling 30 and continued on to the Titans return toys.
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Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.


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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:26 pm

Motto: "私はルールに違反している"
They have pints, err, I mean, political discussion?

Someone who's worked with Sikomofo told me that perhaps he's trying to emulate the early 80's "uncensored" comics and/or cartoons in Japan. However, although there may not have been any condemnation of it amongst Japanese TF fans, like I've said, most Japanese I've shown the comics to raised eyebrows at the least.

If Sikomofo IS trying to emulate the original comics, etc, then why not show male nudity or have males in compromising or embarrassing positions? Crayon Shinchan, Brock in a bikini, or even the original TF cartoons:

- Image

It's not necessarily the naked, or sexualized imagery (for some) that is an issue, it's Sikomofo's consistent use of (young/underaged) females. It's either an old joke by now, or a sign that he's only interested in portraying females in this way.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:28 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Burn wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Burn wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?

I see what you did there. Image


Sigh... :roll:


Oh lighten up buttercup. FFS, I was just trying to have a bit of fun.


I know, and I love you for it :)

Deadput wrote:I thought Legends would keep on going considering that it did not start with Titans returns figures but rather it started with thrilling 30 and continued on to the Titans return toys.


The Power of the Prime toys will be released in a new line, as detailed here. So yeah, outside of exclusives Legends will be ending.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Black Hat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:44 pm

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Mini-rant.

Two problems with that hypothesis, primalxconvoy.

1: Nudity gags are incredibly common in Japanese media, in much the same way as fart jokes in Western media (fun fact: for centuries, Japan had literally no nudity taboo at all, and in Japanese mythology nudity is usually associated with purity. Associating nudity with sexuality was a Western import).

2: Whilst the chronology in the Legends universe is all over the place, it's HEAVILY implied that most of the cast are older than they were in their respective debut media (case in point, Shaoshao Li is now 30 in the Legends verse).

It's also worth noting that Sakamoto-senpai is very familiar with the Western fanbase (especially by Japanese standards) and even reads the Wiki. So, combined with the fact that a lot of Japanese really, REALLY resent Western PC culture (remember the reaction to the UN's wibbling over the rights of fictional women whilst they had SAUDI ARABIA at the head of their women's rights council?), there's every chance he's literally putting that stuff in solely to wind up over-sensitive numpties on the internet.

So if you really want to stick it to "Sikomofo" the BEST thing you can do is just keep your hair on and not whine about it.


Moving SWIFTLY on...

I wonder what Blitzwing and Octane are going to get for their comics? Blitzwing I suspect will be football related somehow, whilst Octane has that ghostly Starscream headmaster, so who knows...
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:29 pm

Motto: "私はルールに違反している"
NOTE TO ADMINS: - I'm using spoiler tags to hide a long post, but it doesn't seem to be working. Any help in doing so, to help others reduce scrolling would be helpful. Presently, it just puts blocks over the text, rather than behind the word "SPOILER" (like other sites do)
Black Hat wrote:Mini-rant.

Two problems with that hypothesis, primalxconvoy.

1: Nudity gags are incredibly common in Japanese media, in much the same way as fart jokes in Western media (fun fact: for centuries, Japan had literally no nudity taboo at all, and in Japanese mythology nudity is usually associated with purity. Associating nudity with sexuality was a Western import).


According to Wikipedia, you are partially right. Japan, like most places in the world, was affected by trade and contact with other cultures and nations. This isn't really any different from the UK adopting Roman roads, or India receiving railways from the UK (although the methods in which countries like the UK used is debatable).

However,in portrayals of nudity in Japanese media, it's a different matter:

-
"...Despite the lack of taboos on public nudity, traditional Japanese art seldom depicted nude individuals except for paintings of bathhouses. When the first embassies opened in Western countries in the late 19th century, Japanese dignitaries were shocked and offended at the European predilection for nude statues and busts. However, Japanese students traveling to Europe to study became exposed to Western art and its frequent nudity. In 1894, Kuroda Seikia was the first Japanese artist to publicly exhibit a painting of a nude woman grooming herself. The work caused a public uproar, but gradually nudity became more accepted in Japanese art and by the 1910s, it was commonplace and acceptable as long as pubic hair was not shown. By the 1930s, pubes were accepted as long as they were not overly detailed or the main focus of the picture.

In traditional Japanese culture, nudity was typically associated with the lower class of society, i.e. those who performed manual labor and frequently wore little when the weather permitted. The upper class, for comparison, were expected to be modest and fully clothed, with fine clothing in particular considered more erotic than nudity itself. After the Meiji Restoration, upper-class Japanese began adopting Western clothing, which included underwear, something not part of the traditional Japanese wardrobe except for loincloths worn by men..."

(Source: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_nudity )

Also, as this is about FEMALE depictions of nudity, abd how women seem to be treated differently from a male viewpoint in Japan, then feel free to read this article on how "open and carefree Japan is on female nudity in art":

- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... iXQOmjqbV4

Personally, I've got a print of a pixellated Tokyo, featuring naked males and females, made by "eBoy" (a German design company) on the wall of my living room, and I'd love to have some of that vagina art on my wall, too. I'm not against nudity or expression in art. However, it could be said that Sikomofo's depictions represent male-dominated views of women being subservient, sexually available and looking or being young/youthful/underage.

Also, here is an opinion piece on how it's believed that male-dominating rules on pornography/nudity are in place to hinder women from enjoying nudity abd sexuality in Japanese media, rather than men:

- http://www.comicsbeat.com/japanese-sexu ... r-illegal/

Regardless, using past depictions to state present ones is not really helpful here. A similar argument could also be used to state that using the "N-Word" in English prose today is fine because it was used in books many years ago (such as books by Mark Twain).

Also, I stated that the issue is more complex than that. Is it just the nudity that is a problem, the degrees in which it is shown or the constant use of only FEMALES, rather than males? Japanese manga and cartoons have had a healthy history of using naked males in cartoons and comics, but Sikomofo hasn't.

2: Whilst the chronology in the Legends universe is all over the place, it's HEAVILY implied that most of the cast are older than they were in their respective debut media (case in point, Shaoshao Li is now 30 in the Legends verse).


Regardless of saying how old she is meant to be, looking at the way said females are exclusively drawn in these comics gives a contrary image. They LOOK underage, which is a deliberate ploy by the artist. Stating that they are "old enough", next to the pictures is like calling a 3P Optimus Prime "Not Optimus Prime", or for using "Not Mother and Not Son" in some adult video title.

It's also worth noting that Sakamoto-senpai is very familiar with the Western fanbase (especially by Japanese standards) and even reads the Wiki. So, combined with the fact that a lot of Japanese really, REALLY resent Western PC culture (remember the reaction to the UN's wibbling over the rights of fictional women whilst they had SAUDI ARABIA at the head of their women's rights council?), there's every chance he's literally putting that stuff in solely to wind up over-sensitive numpties on the internet.


Firstly, I think you meant to write "sensei" instead of "sempai" (Sensei is used, if wanted, for, say a major or senior artist, at least by some people). I agree somewhat, that Sikomofo is "trolling" people (that's what someone I know, who's worked with him, believes). However, if true, is that good business? Should Takara really be making media (especially media that's included with the products that they're trying to sell) that's trolling part of their customer base, however small it may be? Should Hasbro go back to using "spastic" in toy bios, just for "teh lulz"?

Secondly, I don't agree with your views on "most Japanese people". Where is your evidence? It's too broad a statement, without any links or evidence to back up the claim. However, I believe that most Japanese people don't agree with Sikomofo's depictions of females, in the context of a comic that's inside toys sold to children. This is because the ones I've spoken with (and ones other Japanese have spoken to on my behalf) felt just as uncomfortable add myself and also because Japanese people, not just foreigners, have been behind changes to child pornography laws in Japan, for example.

However, if you are talking about the Japanese government (with regards to the UN), then I would say that any given government isn't always an accurate reflection of its people. The LDP just recently blocked/neutered a law that would ban smoking in all bars and restaurants in Japan (to make Japan more hospitable to foreign tourists for the upcoming Olympic Games in Japan). Even though this was wanted by many other non-smoking Japanese people, the LDP blocked it. Why? Probably due to the LDP having close links with Japan Tobacco...

So if you really want to stick it to "Sikomofo" the BEST thing you can do is just keep your hair on and not whine about it.


Not really. The best thing I can do is to take action, including giving my opinions and criticising it online. However, you are more than welcome to take your own advice regarding my views, if you wish.

Moving SWIFTLY on...
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Black Hat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:41 pm

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Firstly, no, I meant senpai. Sakamoto is a wonderful man and I have nothing but admiration for him. The salt that flows forth when he draws his silly comics is glorious.

Secondly, yes, Takara should be actively trying to excise the fools that whine about "le problematic depictions of [minority of the week here]" from the fanbase. Modern day Marvel is an example of what happens if the cancer is allowed to set in. If a few self-entitled morons are going to quit Transformers because of some cartoon boobs, they probably didn't belong in the fandom to begin with. Besides, if we're talking about "problematic" content then how about IDW, with its graphic violence (poor Ambulon)? Heck, one could argue that the normalization of homosexual relations in IDW is "problematic"- there's probably far more people offended by the gay relationships in IDW than by a few silly illustrations of boobs. Or do they not count because they're icky conservatives?

Thirdly, "They LOOK underage" is not an argument. Mainly because aside from basic "big head with big eyes" manga stylings they...really don't. They're not even particularly alluring images- the fact you interpret a clearly comedic image as sexual says a lot more about you than it does about Sakamoto.

Finally, congratulations on missing my point entirely. You "taking action" is just going to give Sakamoto and his fans (myself included) more laughter. There is precisely nothing you can do to stop Sakamoto from exercising his reasonable right to draw silly comics advertising plastic toys, and by continuing to do so you are actively sh*tting up the discussion forum and making a complete idiot of yourself. If you really enjoy humiliating yourself then by all means carry on, but realize you're probably going to turn yourself into a complete laughing stock. You're also making it impossible for those who actually want to, you know, just talk about our silly robot comics to do so, and you're likely to make quite a few people very, very angry.

To sum up: Don't be daft lad.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby fenrir72 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:51 pm

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
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primalxconvoy wrote:NOTE TO ADMINS: - I'm using spoiler tags to hide a long post, but it doesn't seem to be working. Any help in doing so, to help others reduce scrolling would be helpful. Presently, it just puts blocks over the text, rather than behind the word "SPOILER" (like other sites do)
Black Hat wrote:Mini-rant.

Two problems with that hypothesis, primalxconvoy.

1: Nudity gags are incredibly common in Japanese media, in much the same way as fart jokes in Western media (fun fact: for centuries, Japan had literally no nudity taboo at all, and in Japanese mythology nudity is usually associated with purity. Associating nudity with sexuality was a Western import).


According to Wikipedia, you are partially right. Japan, like most places in the world, was affected by trade and contact with other cultures and nations. This isn't really any different from the UK adopting Roman roads, or India receiving railways from the UK (although the methods in which countries like the UK used is debatable).

However,in portrayals of nudity in Japanese media, it's a different matter:

-
"...Despite the lack of taboos on public nudity, traditional Japanese art seldom depicted nude individuals except for paintings of bathhouses. When the first embassies opened in Western countries in the late 19th century, Japanese dignitaries were shocked and offended at the European predilection for nude statues and busts. However, Japanese students traveling to Europe to study became exposed to Western art and its frequent nudity. In 1894, Kuroda Seikia was the first Japanese artist to publicly exhibit a painting of a nude woman grooming herself. The work caused a public uproar, but gradually nudity became more accepted in Japanese art and by the 1910s, it was commonplace and acceptable as long as pubic hair was not shown. By the 1930s, pubes were accepted as long as they were not overly detailed or the main focus of the picture.

In traditional Japanese culture, nudity was typically associated with the lower class of society, i.e. those who performed manual labor and frequently wore little when the weather permitted. The upper class, for comparison, were expected to be modest and fully clothed, with fine clothing in particular considered more erotic than nudity itself. After the Meiji Restoration, upper-class Japanese began adopting Western clothing, which included underwear, something not part of the traditional Japanese wardrobe except for loincloths worn by men..."

(Source: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_nudity )

Also, as this is about FEMALE depictions of nudity, abd how women seem to be treated differently from a male viewpoint in Japan, then feel free to read this article on how "open and carefree Japan is on female nudity in art":

- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... iXQOmjqbV4

Personally, I've got a print of a pixellated Tokyo, featuring naked males and females, made by "eBoy" (a German design company) on the wall of my living room, and I'd love to have some of that vagina art on my wall, too. I'm not against nudity or expression in art. However, it could be said that Sikomofo's depictions represent male-dominated views of women being subservient, sexually available and looking or being young/youthful/underage.

Also, here is an opinion piece on how it's believed that male-dominating rules on pornography/nudity are in place to hinder women from enjoying nudity abd sexuality in Japanese media, rather than men:

- http://www.comicsbeat.com/japanese-sexu ... r-illegal/

Regardless, using past depictions to state present ones is not really helpful here. A similar argument could also be used to state that using the "N-Word" in English prose today is fine because it was used in books many years ago (such as books by Mark Twain).

Also, I stated that the issue is more complex than that. Is it just the nudity that is a problem, the degrees in which it is shown or the constant use of only FEMALES, rather than males? Japanese manga and cartoons have had a healthy history of using naked males in cartoons and comics, but Sikomofo hasn't.

2: Whilst the chronology in the Legends universe is all over the place, it's HEAVILY implied that most of the cast are older than they were in their respective debut media (case in point, Shaoshao Li is now 30 in the Legends verse).


Regardless of saying how old she is meant to be, looking at the way said females are exclusively drawn in these comics gives a contrary image. They LOOK underage, which is a deliberate ploy by the artist. Stating that they are "old enough", next to the pictures is like calling a 3P Optimus Prime "Not Optimus Prime", or for using "Not Mother and Not Son" in some adult video title.

It's also worth noting that Sakamoto-senpai is very familiar with the Western fanbase (especially by Japanese standards) and even reads the Wiki. So, combined with the fact that a lot of Japanese really, REALLY resent Western PC culture (remember the reaction to the UN's wibbling over the rights of fictional women whilst they had SAUDI ARABIA at the head of their women's rights council?), there's every chance he's literally putting that stuff in solely to wind up over-sensitive numpties on the internet.


Firstly, I think you meant to write "sensei" instead of "sempai" (Sensei is used, if wanted, for, say a major or senior artist, at least by some people). I agree somewhat, that Sikomofo is "trolling" people (that's what someone I know, who's worked with him, believes). However, if true, is that good business? Should Takara really be making media (especially media that's included with the products that they're trying to sell) that's trolling part of their customer base, however small it may be? Should Hasbro go back to using "spastic" in toy bios, just for "teh lulz"?

Secondly, I don't agree with your views on "most Japanese people". Where is your evidence? It's too broad a statement, without any links or evidence to back up the claim. However, I believe that most Japanese people don't agree with Sikomofo's depictions of females, in the context of a comic that's inside toys sold to children. This is because the ones I've spoken with (and ones other Japanese have spoken to on my behalf) felt just as uncomfortable add myself and also because Japanese people, not just foreigners, have been behind changes to child pornography laws in Japan, for example.

However, if you are talking about the Japanese government (with regards to the UN), then I would say that any given government isn't always an accurate reflection of its people. The LDP just recently blocked/neutered a law that would ban smoking in all bars and restaurants in Japan (to make Japan more hospitable to foreign tourists for the upcoming Olympic Games in Japan). Even though this was wanted by many other non-smoking Japanese people, the LDP blocked it. Why? Probably due to the LDP having close links with Japan Tobacco...

So if you really want to stick it to "Sikomofo" the BEST thing you can do is just keep your hair on and not whine about it.


Not really. The best thing I can do is to take action, including giving my opinions and criticising it online. However, you are more than welcome to take your own advice regarding my views, if you wish.

Moving SWIFTLY on...



Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn TLDR (noisy minority). :roll:
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby fenrir72 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:56 pm

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Black Hat wrote:Firstly, no, I meant senpai. Sakamoto is a wonderful man and I have nothing but admiration for him. The salt that flows forth when he draws his silly comics is glorious.

Secondly, yes, Takara should be actively trying to excise the fools that whine about "le problematic depictions of [minority of the week here]" from the fanbase. Modern day Marvel is an example of what happens if the cancer is allowed to set in. If a few self-entitled morons are going to quit Transformers because of some cartoon boobs, they probably didn't belong in the fandom to begin with. Besides, if we're talking about "problematic" content then how about IDW, with its graphic violence (poor Ambulon)? Heck, one could argue that the normalization of homosexual relations in IDW is "problematic"- there's probably far more people offended by the gay relationships in IDW than by a few silly illustrations of boobs. Or do they not count because they're icky conservatives?

Thirdly, "They LOOK underage" is not an argument. Mainly because aside from basic "big head with big eyes" manga stylings they...really don't. They're not even particularly alluring images- the fact you interpret a clearly comedic image as sexual says a lot more about you than it does about Sakamoto.

Finally, congratulations on missing my point entirely. You "taking action" is just going to give Sakamoto and his fans (myself included) more laughter. There is precisely nothing you can do to stop Sakamoto from exercising his reasonable right to draw silly comics advertising plastic toys, and by continuing to do so you are actively sh*tting up the discussion forum and making a complete idiot of yourself. If you really enjoy humiliating yourself then by all means carry on, but realize you're probably going to turn yourself into a complete laughing stock. You're also making it impossible for those who actually want to, you know, just talk about our silly robot comics to do so, and you're likely to make quite a few people very, very angry.

To sum up: Don't be daft lad.


Agree x infinity. The skin exposure no different from the canned American shows like Babe Watch etc. Or even Sports Illustrated. Fact is, the "shower scenes" or even alien tentacle loving are much a creation of Hollyweird than the Japanese culture.

And the so called "protesting online"? I remembered some noisy western "fans" protesting online against Big"N"'s Miyamoto concerning the portrayal of Zelda as demeaning to women or something..........nothing HAPPENED! :lol:
Too much ruffled feathers will get you nowhere and at worst look what's going to happen to Appu in the Simpsons as PC goes runsamuck!

Heck, I'm more interested in how Giga and Mega got resurrected and how the upcoming Power of the Prime Convoy and Rodimusconvoy will be shoe horned into this reality.
Buy Official Hb/TakaraTitancityformers at retail price or else the 3rd party makers win!

"Shelfwarming"
Btw, its been nearly a year now and TR Soundwave and Blaster aren't moving in the shelve of TRU, is that shelfwarming or what?


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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Michael Alex Kawa » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:21 pm

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First off I would like to give a big THANK YOU to Hayato Sakamoto :BOWDOWN: :BOWDOWN:
Your art is so awesome, and considering that I love Minerva I have no problems seeing "more of" her in your comics. :x
And second I would like to say I completely agree with Black Hat. I was going to bring up the IDW comics as well, and how everyone doesn't question them, but most likely my words would not have been as "nice" to say the least. But it is nice to know I am not alone in loving the art in these Legend comics.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:08 am

Motto: "私はルールに違反している"
Black Hat wrote:Firstly, no, I meant senpai. Sakamoto is a wonderful man and I have nothing but admiration for him. The salt that flows forth when he draws his silly comics is glorious.

If you really like him and respect him or his work that much, calling him "senpai" would look odd, at best if you ever met him (being too casual) The correct honorific, in Japanese, especially from your POV, is still "sensei". I'm not trying to trick you on this one.

Secondly, yes, Takara should be actively trying to excise the fools that whine about "the problematic depictions of [minority of the week here]" from the fanbase. Modern day Marvel is an example of what happens if the cancer is allowed to set in. If a few self-entitled morons are going to quit Transformers because of some cartoon boobs, they probably didn't belong in the fandom to begin with.


Referring to such people so negatively isn't constructive. Secondly by bringing comics into the 21st century, and reflecting more views, cultures and groups of people is only a good thing. I would say it's the majority of fans that have no problem with these issues. They might criticise the ways they were implemented, but the spirit is only a good as welcome thing. Such changes brought about the fantastic and critically acclaimed "Wonderwoman" film, for example (or arguably, the "Jessica Jones" Netflix show). And honestly, do you really think a female character, for example, should be defined by her sexual attractiveness to males (unless it's intrinsic to the story)? I believe that social change is a welcome part of all media, including comics:

- http://www.comicsbeat.com/sdcc-17-comic ... al-change/

As a related side note, there was internal criticism of the "Kawaii" style depictions of Wonder Woman in the film's Japanese marketing, essentially stripping her off her power for a traditional, Japanese male-dominated view:

-: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/201 ... iYOumjqbV4.

Also, Japanese people have been debating the work of a major artist when he was arrested for possessing child porn:

- https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/kotaku.c ... 633519/amp

And recently, Japanese women have protested depictions of women in both tourist marketing and in porn magazines available at a convenience store in Japan. These aren't enraged, ethnocentric foreigners, nor far-left people. They are the general, Japanese public:

- https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2017 ... icism.html
- https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/en.rocke ... -year/amp/ (While 7-11 refused to remove them, after a local Chiba body asked them to).

"If we're talking about "problematic" content then how about IDW, with its graphic violence (poor Ambulon)? Heck, one could argue that the normalization of homosexual relations in IDW is "problematic"- there's probably far more people offended by the gay relationships in IDW than by a few silly illustrations of boobs. Or do they not count because they're icky conservatives?


That's a very good question. If sexual issues are problematic, especially in the context of media aimed at children, then how about violence or other issues, such as social ones (gender, race, etc)? Is it better to "make love, not war" in comics such as these?

For me, there are suitable rules in place for violence in cartoons (look at the lengths cartoons had to go to be suitable for even 80's Saturday morning cartoon syndication, for example), but I'm open for debate and change, if it's needed. It's not fair to criticise some issues, while defending others, right?
However, although I'm not myself comfortable with some of the changes that IDW has brought to their franchises ("Black Tracker" in MASK and a black Leonus in Visionaries, for example), I welcome such issues in TF comics, especially as the world of robots makes a suitable canvas to discuss issues without making them blatant.
For example, the "shipping" you described between two TF charcters isn't "homosexual" as both characters are genderless. Similar issues about gender were raised in the Arcee arc and even (slightly differently) in the original G1 Marvel TF comic about Arcee. I loved how social issues, such as a TFs alt mode, affected their place in society, etc. I wasn't happy that two original characters were changed, and the subject matter challenged my views, but I'd be more happier if NEW characters were used to tell the same story too (again, the way it was handled, rather than the issues themselves). A similar story was in the recent show, "The Orville", where a baby's gender was discussed. Social and political issues were also heavily referenced in the original Star Trek shows and I believe that's part of why they were so popular and have remained so (somewhat).
However, if some people were offended by references to homosexuality (which is a fair description, IMO), then why? My own personal religious beliefs don't support homosexuality, but I can "live in the world and not be part of it" and respect that it is the legal right of any adult to engage in relationships with almost anyone they please, as long as that does not cause harm to others, etc. I believe also that it is an (increasing) minority of people that are offended by such issues. Relating to the Sikomofo comic, hs depiction of a group of people (females) can be considered negative, while the IDW depiction of (alternate sexual choices) is positive. Which is a better way to show sexual isuues?

Thirdly, "They LOOK underage" is not an argument. Mainly because aside from basic "big head with big eyes" manga stylings they...really don't. They're not even particularly alluring images- the fact you interpret a clearly comedic image as sexual says a lot more about you than it does about Sakamoto.

It most certainly is. The easy argument is "if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."mm
Minerva is 15 years old (source: - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Minerva_(Masterforce_human) ), and whether she's suddenly "older" in this new comic is irrelevant, due to her visual depiction remaining the same. Compare that, in the same Wiki article and ask yourself which of these depictions of the character looks older, the Western version, or the version by Sikomofo?

Original version:
- Image
Legends comic "older version":

- Image

Alternative depiction of "older version"
- Image
It's true that in Japan, cute depictions of characters may transcend actual intended ages, so that we might see cute old ladies, such as the famous "Sazesan":

- Image

However, Sazaesan isn't being looked at by two boys, while she is naked, in the shower, is she? Thus, if semiotic analysis is employed, we can see a pattern of young looking females being put into situations whereby they are either naked, subject to humiliation and/or while being objects to be gazed at by males. In the case of this comic, a 15 year old high school girl has been subjected to this.

Also, a casual friend/acqueintance of mine wrote a book on the subject, extolling the virtues of "Moe Love". Although he didn't attack the ideas (quite the opposite), there is discussion about the issue of YOUNG girls being depicted as sexual objects. The book may not agree with my views, but it does seem to at least admit that such girls ARE young, regardless of whatever arbitrary ages are tagged onto them to justify their existence, at times:

- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/20 ... iYPh2jqbV4

(BTW, Patrick is a great guy and is a professor in North Carolina still, I believe. I believe his wife teaches at the nearby rival University, so there's a Chapel Hill/Duke split, I believe).
Japan also has a well documented history of the objectification of young girls, both in manga, video and photography (such as "Chaku ero") and a term,"lolicon":

- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... iYWW2jqbV4

- http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/57ea ... f2563b38aa

What makes you think this comic is somehow different from these issues?

Finally, congratulations on missing my point entirely. You "taking action" is just going to give Sakamoto and his fans (myself included) more laughter. There is precisely nothing you can do to stop Sakamoto from exercising his reasonable right to draw silly comics advertising plastic toys, and by continuing to do so you are actively sh*tting up the discussion forum and making a complete idiot of yourself. If you really enjoy humiliating yourself then by all means carry on, but realize you're probably going to turn yourself into a complete laughing stock. You're also making it impossible for those who actually want to, you know, just talk about our silly robot comics to do so, and you're likely to make quite a few people very, very angry.

To sum up: Don't be daft lad.


Not really. Like I have said before, I am in the process of drafting a letter of complaint, in Japanese, to Takara, on the matter. I'm raising awareness with Japanese parents to let them know about the issue, voicing my opinions here to keep awareness up and engage in discussion and also learning more about it from my friends and acquaintances in Japan who are far more knowledgeable about this subject myself. In fact, it was debating cultural issues about Japan that was one of the things that allowed me to meet my current Japanese girlfriend, and we still engage in debate or discussion about various social issues in the UK, Japan and USA.

I'm having a blast in Japan, in the process. How about you?
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby fenrir72 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:15 am

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Michael Alex Kawa wrote:First off I would like to give a big THANK YOU to Hayato Sakamoto :BOWDOWN: :BOWDOWN:
Your art is so awesome, and considering that I love Minerva I have no problems seeing "more of" her in your comics. :x
And second I would like to say I completely agree with Black Hat. I was going to bring up the IDW comics as well, and how everyone doesn't question them, but most likely my words would not have been as "nice" to say the least. But it is nice to know I am not alone in loving the art in these Legend comics.


It's a shame that a lot of JP themed products get's sanitized because the publishers are so afraid to offend. And I'm talking about stuff like Yugioh cards. Though JP versions of American products (i.e. games) too GET sanitized. But sometimes, the complaints are kind of OT!
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Michael Alex Kawa » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:52 am

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I always love when someone "questions" the current "relationships" in the IDW Universe, the response is always "they are gender-less". :roll:
Using that mindset, I could say what is the big deal with how T-AI is portrayed in these Legend comics, since she is really just a "hologram image".
Or in all reality all of these characters in these comics (Legends/IDW/whatever), don't exist, and they are just lines on a piece of paper. It is all in how we perceive these "lines" in our mind and how we interpret them.
And what my mind sees is a girl with a nice a** taking a shower, :P
and you really don't want to know how I perceive the "relationships" in the IDW Universe....you really really don't. ;)^
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:35 am

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Michael Alex Kawa wrote:I always love when someone "questions" the current "relationships" in the IDW Universe, the response is always "they are gender-less". :roll:
Using that mindset, I could say what is the big deal with how T-AI is portrayed in these Legend comics, since she is really just a "hologram image".
Or in all reality all of these characters in these comics (Legends/IDW/whatever), don't exist, and they are just lines on a piece of paper. It is all in how we perceive these "lines" in our mind and how we interpret them.
And what my mind sees is a girl with a nice a** taking a shower, :P
and you really don't want to know how I perceive the "relationships" in the IDW Universe....you really really don't. ;)^


That wasn't my point. In science fiction, a common (trope?) is to use ambiguity to tackle social, political issues, etc. Robots, aliens with extra genders, brings from other dimensions, etc can all be used to allow people in our world to consider alternate ideas and opinions equally.

Thus, taboo subjects can be discussed. In the case of the IDW story, the universe features two genderless robots dealing with a taboo relationship in their own culture. In our world, this can reflect a number of issues, from homosexual, bisexual, inter-racial, etc relationships (although, for the sake of argument, let's assume it's only homosexual). Thus, in the IDW stories, real life issues were explored via an ambiguous framework. It's a way to allow readers to all be on the same page, even ones who have issues with (homosexuality) in the real world. So to, with things like "Primus" (religion), "Arcee" (gender, transgender, identity, etc).

With things like AI in RID, in that universe, she is a female artificial intelligence, which, depending on the stories, media or PVC figurine discussed, has been treated as a sexual object, usually without her knowledge or permission. However, in that universe, unlike the IDW stories, there was little or no story too give reasons for such behavior, nor any noticable repurcussions. There was no ambiguity used, not any social commentary, as far as I am aware.

Which one do you think was more effective in conveying a story, or dealing with issues such as gender, identity, different perspectives on morality, etc?
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Michael Alex Kawa » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:31 am

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primalxconvoy wrote:
Michael Alex Kawa wrote:I always love when someone "questions" the current "relationships" in the IDW Universe, the response is always "they are gender-less". :roll:
Using that mindset, I could say what is the big deal with how T-AI is portrayed in these Legend comics, since she is really just a "hologram image".
Or in all reality all of these characters in these comics (Legends/IDW/whatever), don't exist, and they are just lines on a piece of paper. It is all in how we perceive these "lines" in our mind and how we interpret them.
And what my mind sees is a girl with a nice a** taking a shower, :P
and you really don't want to know how I perceive the "relationships" in the IDW Universe....you really really don't. ;)^


That wasn't my point. In science fiction, a common (trope?) is to use ambiguity to tackle social, political issues, etc. Robots, aliens with extra genders, brings from other dimensions, etc can all be used to allow people in our world to consider alternate ideas and opinions equally.

Thus, taboo subjects can be discussed. In the case of the IDW story, the universe features two genderless robots dealing with a taboo relationship in their own culture. In our world, this can reflect a number of issues, from homosexual, bisexual, inter-racial, etc relationships (although, for the sake of argument, let's assume it's only homosexual). Thus, in the IDW stories, real life issues were explored via an ambiguous framework. It's a way to allow readers to all be on the same page, even ones who have issues with (homosexuality) in the real world. So to, with things like "Primus" (religion), "Arcee" (gender, transgender, identity, etc).

With things like AI in RID, in that universe, she is a female artificial intelligence, which, depending on the stories, media or PVC figurine discussed, has been treated as a sexual object, usually without her knowledge or permission. However, in that universe, unlike the IDW stories, there was little or no story too give reasons for such behavior, nor any noticable repurcussions. There was no ambiguity used, not any social commentary, as far as I am aware.

Which one do you think was more effective in conveying a story, or dealing with issues such as gender, identity, different perspectives on morality, etc?


To be honest I do see what you mean, and all.
And I guess for myself I find these little comics fun and comical with a little bit of "fan service" to boot. No I can't deny that the females are shown just as "sexual objects", and I could try to justify it, but I would just be running in circles. As for if this is wrong or right is what is debatable.
In my opinion, or I should say in a perfect world, I wish I could have the best of both worlds.
Lately in western comics, women have been portrayed in this....I don't know how to say it....cantankerous manner....like unless they have a "kick a**, take no prisoner" attitude, then it is an insult towards female readers.
Ever wonder why if Thor takes off his shirt there are "hoots and hollering" from the audience, yet if Black Window does, then there is a "call to arms". It reminds me of a Family Guy episode where a crowd was yelling "all sex is rape", and this is how the world is becoming.
Western comics give fans of Thor or Batman fan-service, but no longer can we expect to see a Marvel Swimsuit special again with the likes of Rouge or Scarlet Witch....and why.....well we all know why.
For me I have been a fan of Minerva since I first saw Masterforce, and I am not gonna push away or not enjoy the little bit of fan service I might get of her in these comics.
Do I wish that these "stories: had more meat to them, yeah I do, and yes for me if would make the "fan service" even more enjoyable.....but I also know if lets say IDW ever uses Minerva they would strip (not in a good way ;) ) away every aspect about her that makes her likable and make her yet another ANGRY GUN TOTING BI*** THAT HATES MEN....like they (and other comic book companies) have done lately to most other female characters.
It is like what a guy I knew once that owned a comic book store once said to me "Most super hero females are just men with tits".........BTW he was talking about Wonder Woman....just saying.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:22 am

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That's a very valid point. Like I said before, (regardless of it being right or wrong), I don't like having a black Matt Tracker, but I'm not against the notion of having a non-white leader for MASK, or exploring that issue (which I should really discuss in a relevant thread). I felt that the respect for the original subject matter wasn't given and changes were made to MASK arbitrarily.

In the case of the Legends comics, the staff go to great lengths, even in this parody style universe, to explain EVERY facet of TF lore. Sikomofo is known to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of TF lore, so why can't he also use his skills to acknowledge traditional Japanese conventions whilst bringing it to a more modern audience. In essence, exactly what he's doing with marrying new toys with established lore? Have Minerva "perv" at the boys, or have the boys perv at a transformer by mistake (and get scolded for it), have older versions of the characters wax lyrical about the good old days, only for the females to tell them to "get with the times", or something else.

As for the "kick ass Mary Sue" then I agree somewhat. It's perfectly feasible to have a physically strong female, such as She Hulk, Beast Machines Strika, etc. In fact, I introduced my Japanese preschool learners to He-Man and She-Ra. They are around 3-5 years old and the girls love Disney Princesses. They now LOVE She-Ra and want to be strong, like her, Moanna and Elsa. The boys and girls in my class get treated the same as I want all of them to be brave, strong, caring and smart (which they all are).

However, it's all about context. Those characters are strong for a reason, whereas I think you're saying that it's almost ANY female in media these days that seems to be able to fight men twice their size in the same style of combat and win. I take issue with that. It doesn't show how a physically weaker or smaller opponent can actually win a fight against one that is stronger or bigger. It's like showing Indiana Jones winning a sword fight, instead of just "shooting first" (honestly, didn't that sword guy watch Star Wars?)

I think some people here are worried that their values and/or beloved hobbies are becoming increasingly generic and lost to "PC gone mad", but there IS a way to balance traditional ideas with modern sensibilities, or for different cultures to find common ground and make stuff that's accessible for all.

Thanks for your honest post!
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby shajaki » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:33 am

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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Michael Alex Kawa » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:28 pm

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primalxconvoy wrote:That's a very valid point. Like I said before, (regardless of it being right or wrong), I don't like having a black Matt Tracker, but I'm not against the notion of having a non-white leader for MASK, or exploring that issue (which I should really discuss in a relevant thread). I felt that the respect for the original subject matter wasn't given and changes were made to MASK arbitrarily.

In the case of the Legends comics, the staff go to great lengths, even in this parody style universe, to explain EVERY facet of TF lore. Sikomofo is known to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of TF lore, so why can't he also use his skills to acknowledge traditional Japanese conventions whilst bringing it to a more modern audience. In essence, exactly what he's doing with marrying new toys with established lore? Have Minerva "perv" at the boys, or have the boys perv at a transformer by mistake (and get scolded for it), have older versions of the characters wax lyrical about the good old days, only for the females to tell them to "get with the times", or something else.

As for the "kick ass Mary Sue" then I agree somewhat. It's perfectly feasible to have a physically strong female, such as She Hulk, Beast Machines Strika, etc. In fact, I introduced my Japanese preschool learners to He-Man and She-Ra. They are around 3-5 years old and the girls love Disney Princesses. They now LOVE She-Ra and want to be strong, like her, Moanna and Elsa. The boys and girls in my class get treated the same as I want all of them to be brave, strong, caring and smart (which they all are).

However, it's all about context. Those characters are strong for a reason, whereas I think you're saying that it's almost ANY female in media these days that seems to be able to fight men twice their size in the same style of combat and win. I take issue with that. It doesn't show how a physically weaker or smaller opponent can actually win a fight against one that is stronger or bigger. It's like showing Indiana Jones winning a sword fight, instead of just "shooting first" (honestly, didn't that sword guy watch Star Wars?)

I think some people here are worried that their values and/or beloved hobbies are becoming increasingly generic and lost to "PC gone mad", but there IS a way to balance traditional ideas with modern sensibilities, or for different cultures to find common ground and make stuff that's accessible for all.

Thanks for your honest post!


You are welcome, and thank you for understanding what I meant.

*"However, it's all about context. Those characters are strong for a reason, whereas I think you're saying that it's almost ANY female in media these days that seems to be able to fight men twice their size in the same style of combat and win. I take issue with that. It doesn't show how a physically weaker or smaller opponent can actually win a fight against one that is stronger or bigger. It's like showing Indiana Jones winning a sword fight, instead of just "shooting first" (honestly, didn't that sword guy watch Star Wars?)"*




That is basically what I meant and could not find the right way to convey it.
Oh and I also agree with what you said about Matt Tracker, because I have thought the same thing. I feel the same about Nick Fury too, why not just make a NEW leader of SHIELD that is black, instead of changing Fury.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby fenrir72 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:40 am

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Sticking to the topic I expect more DBZ stile fights with the uniforms go all a exploding!

Spike will be rescued from his captivity by the upgraded Bumble. How Starscream ends up human size as a headmaster..........well, Sakamoto the wise is sure find a good loophole for this one.

Once all the 3 Destron targetmasters are released, will they go back to their "bad ways"? Will Xiao xiao have to overcompensate and loose her quipao again?

Interested on how Mega and Giga got resurrected here. And will Optimus Prime/Convoy appear here as the aforemention the PP form, be the same guy who was pursuing Legends "tank" not the headmaster Megatron?

And if that is the "configuration matrix" he is wearing, then Sakamoto has another MacGuffin to explain why he now can appear as Orion Pax.

So where does that put Pretender Starcream, Bumble,Grimlock and Jazz? Before or after?

We still need an explanation why Windblade turns into a HM too!
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Cyberpath » Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:42 am

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New Takara Tomy Transformers Legends LG51 Manga Online

Postby Va'al » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:05 am

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Courtesy of fellow Seibertronian Cyberpath, who found the source on the official Takara Tomy Transformers Legends website, we have another chapter in the ongoing manga series that accompanies the Legends toyline, both in-pack and as digital releases to the figures themselves. The chapter, mirrored below, is number 51, which is the same designation as Targetmaster Doublecross (Twinferno in the Hasbro Titans Return line) and features the White Leo Headmaster along with a whole cast of Beastformers from the original Japanese animated series for the Headmasters - check it all out below, and let us know what you think in the Energon Pub discussion board!

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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:34 am

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Oooooookay, let's have a look at this baby.

Title is "LG51 Doublecross Prologue", which means this takes place before Doublecross's pack-in comic.

This story is set on Planet Beast, homeworld of the Beastformers and Laser Beasts.

The first page tells the history of the Beastformers, from their origins with the Three Wise Ones, to their living peacefully before Galvatron invaded the planet, to said invasion by Galvatron, to the repelling of Galvatron's invasion with the help of the Autobots, to the Firebots (Monsterbots) staying on the planet to help protect the Beastformers (until they later had to leavesince they appear elsewhere in The Headmasters cartoon). Then, the Laser Beasts emerged from their underground civilization, aiming to take the surface world for themselves (after a massive natural disaster destroyed their subterranean home). A new war, between the Beastformers and the Laser Beasts, had begun.

Page 2: The Firebots (Monsterbots) return to Beast to help the Beastformers once again, along with Lione, Shuffler, and Toraizer. With these new threats, the Laser Beasts take more drastic measures and, I'm not sure, but I think they use that gem that Tigerburn has to either turn themselves into Headmasters using Lione, Shuffler, and Toraizer as templates to scan, or that they might even be merging themselves completely with those three (we'll need to wait for a translation/summary to clear this up). Either way, Tigerburn and at least two others become Headmasters, which gains them enough of an advantage in the war for Tigerburn to decapitate Doublecross's robot mode head, which leads into Tigerburn's controlling Doublecross's body later in the Doublecross pack-in comic. And, apparently, Repug (Repugnus) got beheaded too, explaining his being a Headmaster in the other Legends comics. With this new development on the Laser Beasts' side, the Beastformers regroup and White Leo and his sister White Lune consult Platinum Tiger, who informs them about the Legends World, with a To Be Continued message leading into the previously-released Doublecross pack-in comic.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:49 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
English summary of this prologue comic:
Long ago, the Three Wise Ones arrive on the planet Beast and use their power, crystallized in several gemstones, to build an underground city and create various inventions. To protect the planet they create the Laser Beasts, a technological civilization that lives underground, but the Laser Beasts' hearts are as cold and merciless as machines. Seeking to create a warmhearted, peaceful society, a group of Laser Beasts venture to the surface where their descendants evolve into the Beastformers, a new race that later gets embroiled in the Transformers' war. Many Beastformers are mind-controlled into becoming Decepticon Beasts, and the Autobot Beasts battle them in a war of their own until their leader, White Leo, bests Cobrander and undoes the mind control.

The peace on Beast is fleeting, however, as a natural disaster heralds the emergence of the Laser Beasts from the underground, come to conquer the surface world, and another war breaks out. The power of their machines overwhelms the Beastformers, who lose most of their countries to the invaders, but during their final stand, reinforcements arrive in the form of the Autobot Monsterbots and Headmaster Teens. After the Laser Beasts retreat in the face of Transformers, their Emperor, Tigerburn, desires the robots' power and devises a plan to take it for himself using one of the Three Wise Ones' gems. By exposing the Headmaster Teens to the gem's power, he merges his body with that of Lione while two of his soldiers do the same with Shuffler and Toraizer, turning the three Laser Beasts into fully robotic Headmasters. With their newfound strength, they capture the Beastformers' Head Hunter vehicles and use them to decapitate the Monsterbots in search of bodies to control, though not before Doublecross snatches the gems for the Beastformers' side. White Leo is then contacted by Platinum Tiger, who tells him that hope for victory lies in an alternate dimension filled with Beast Power: the Legends World.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Sabrblade
God Of Transformers
Posts: 29881
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Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:22 pm
Location: Tampa, FL
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 7
Endurance: 6
Rank: 9
Courage: 8
Firepower: 10
Skill: 9

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