The Energon Pub

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Maybe she has a chameleon arch?

If she did it would be a complete cop-out. That macguffin has already been used 3 times (The Doctor/John Smith, The Master/Professor Yana, The Doctor?/Jackson Lake) and would simply cheapen her character.

Her character's already a canon sue. I can see it being used for her. As for Jackson... does that count? The Doc reached for his fobwatch, but it was simply a fobwatch.

[Editor]

Yes, it was simply a fobwatch, but you can tell from the way Ten acts at first that he is expecting it to be an arch, and in a way it was seeing it was the inscription on it that "reawakened" Jackson.

as for her being a sue....

This is Doctor Who, you can argue any of the companions, heck you could argue regenerations are sues. It's a pointless accusation.

[Wheeljack35]

Does the Dr regenerate almost every three years now?

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Yes, it was simply a fobwatch, but you can tell from the way Ten acts at first that he is expecting it to be an arch, and in a way it was seeing it was the inscription on it that "reawakened" Jackson.

yes, I realize he expected it to be an arch, but it wasn't an arch.

as for her being a sue....

This is Doctor Who, you can argue any of the companions, heck you could argue regenerations are sues. It's a pointless accusation.

No, the companions and even the Doc can have flaws. River 'Mary Sue' Song drops out of the sky, exhibits skills even surpassing the Doc, has a heroic sacrificial death that welds him to her and...

Parking brake.

*Foams at mouth*

Anyway... Until she can't shoot a Silent without seeing it, she's a Sue. Until she can't pilot the TARDIS better than the Doc, be smug and arrogant and still have the main characters fawning over her, she's a Sue.

[Editor]

Striker, That is the whole point of her character.

We are watching her life in reverse. The more we see her the "weaker" she'll be, and the less she will know.

I'm not going to argue the point of being a "Sue", if you made your mind up, there is nothing to be gained, plus it's your opinion and you have every right to it.

But I also have a right to an opinion, and I find the whole usage of "Mary/Marty/Canon Sues" which was designed to call out crappy fanfic writers, injecting themselves into franchises is incredibly overused. Recently anytime some "fans" (overall characterization, as they do have the right as well) doesn't like a character regardless of the rational/usage/ability they were given for the sake of storyline, they throw out the "Sue" designation, and I find it just cheapens everything.

[MagnusPrimal]

I like River Song. I think she strengthens every episode she shows up in!

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Striker, That is the whole point of her character.

We are watching her life in reverse. The more we see her the "weaker" she'll be, and the less she will know.

I'm not going to argue the point of being a "Sue", if you made your mind up, there is nothing to be gained, plus it's your opinion and you have every right to it.

But I also have a right to an opinion, and I find the whole usage of "Mary/Marty/Canon Sues" which was designed to call out crappy fanfic writers, injecting themselves into franchises is incredibly overused. Recently anytime some "fans" (overall characterization, as they do have the right as well) doesn't like a character regardless of the rational/usage/ability they were given for the sake of storyline, they throw out the "Sue" designation, and I find it just cheapens everything.

Yes, you have your opinion. And I have mine. And I won't try and change your opinion. But I do detest her character. Her point right now is to be a Sue.

And for the record, if her smugness wasn't dialed up to about nine billion I might find her more tolerable... but probably not. Because she is a Canon Sue.

[Burn]

Does the Dr regenerate almost every three years now?

First Doctor William Hartnell 1963–1966
Second Doctor Patrick Troughton 1966–1969
Third Doctor Jon Pertwee 1970–1974
Fourth Doctor Tom Baker 1974–1981
Fifth Doctor Peter Davison 1981–1984
Sixth Doctor Colin Baker 1984–1986
Seventh Doctor Sylvester McCoy 1987–1989, 1996
Eighth Doctor Paul McGann 1996
Ninth Doctor Christopher Eccleston 2005
Tenth Doctor David Tennant 2005–2010
Eleventh Doctor Matt Smith 2010–present

So the average is about three years. Tom Baker was the longest running and Paul McGann the shortest (one movie)

So another thing from this week's episode ... The Doctor dropping a line about his Time Lord friend regenerating into a woman a couple of times. Don't like the door that's leaving open.

[MagnusPrimal]

Does the Dr regenerate almost every three years now?

First Doctor William Hartnell 1963–1966
Second Doctor Patrick Troughton 1966–1969
Third Doctor Jon Pertwee 1970–1974
Fourth Doctor Tom Baker 1974–1981
Fifth Doctor Peter Davison 1981–1984
Sixth Doctor Colin Baker 1984–1986
Seventh Doctor Sylvester McCoy 1987–1989, 1996
Eighth Doctor Paul McGann 1996
Ninth Doctor Christopher Eccleston 2005
Tenth Doctor David Tennant 2005–2010
Eleventh Doctor Matt Smith 2010–present

So the average is about three years. Tom Baker was the longest running and Paul McGann the shortest (one movie)

So another thing from this week's episode ... The Doctor dropping a line about his Time Lord friend regenerating into a woman a couple of times. Don't like the door that's leaving open.

Glad I'm not the only one.

[Lorekeeper]

So another thing from this week's episode ... The Doctor dropping a line about his Time Lord friend regenerating into a woman a couple of times. Don't like the door that's leaving open.

Yeah, we had quite the discussion on that one after we watched the episode. Apparently, one of my friends had picked up that female timelords could control their appearances when regenerating, but males regenerated randomly.

With that tidbit, I offered the idea that the Corsair was originally a female timelord, but chose a "male" appearance for some regenerations (maybe that's why she was a renegade.)

So, who do you think the lady in the window is? The one with the eyepatch? Might she be The Rani?

[Darth Bombshell]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Striker. River Song is a Sue, and has been pretty much from Scene One of her first appearance. If she were only there, I'd tolerate it, but she's made five appearances since, with at least one more known to be coming. For all of Moffat's genius with the character, there really is no getting around it.

[Burn]

Well ... that's another two parter out of the way.

Didn't really enjoy the first part. Seemed a little boring, and the "cliffhanger" was rather predictable.

Second part kicked the action up a little but the whole "war" thing was on and then off and then on and then suddenly everybody's best friends.

So overall, the whole story was a bit blah. But the ending ... well now, THAT was much better and sets up for what should be a great mid-season finale.

Good to see Marshall Lancaster guest starring, that makes him the second person from Life on Mars to appear in Dr Who (the first being John Simms).

[Lorekeeper]

I kinda saw the swictharoo thing coming, but got thrown off by the sonics.

The ending was sweeet. Geronimo! (although the allons'y was a lot less culturally insensitive)

[Darth Bombshell]

Well, we finally know who River Song is. And all I can say is...

...

...really? Three years of waiting, and that's what Moffat came up with?

I'm beginning to think the guy's starting to not be as great as we once thought he was.

[Nico]

Ok so basically she's the daughter of companions who screwed in the Tardis and so she was born as human with time lord DNA who can regenerate, she become the doctor's wife or something. Wow, seriously, Moffat? You know, for a moment there I thought I was describing a very bad fanction but sadly this is oh so very canon.

Honestly, this episode made me so sick that I won't be watching Doctor Who again, at least not until Moffat is gone. You know a story arc is bad when you start missing RTD. Rose was bad, but the show never sank to this level.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

On a slight tangent... I really don't get the Rose hate. I'm sorry, I just don't. There have been companions far worse than her. And yes, she has faults and has made mistakes... faults and mistakes which she gets called on in the show itself.

But back to Canon Sue Song. Good lord, this is a bad move. But admittedly, her calling the Doc out made my day a bit. Remember when Zoe was smarter than he was and Leela out-badassed him? Remember when he simply was a madman with a box and not the 'Oncoming Storm'?

I miss those days, too.

[Darth Bombshell]

On a slight tangent... I really don't get the Rose hate. I'm sorry, I just don't. There have been companions far worse than her. And yes, she has faults and has made mistakes... faults and mistakes which she gets called on in the show itself.

The problem is that for the first series, she's basically the star of the show, not helped at all by the fact that Eccleston doesn't really seem to be into it at all. And in the second series, she became a lightning rod for controversy with the whole "relationship" angle worked throughout the whole thing. (For reference, look at her expression when Mickey asks to come in School Reunion, not to mention the last scene in Doomsday, which pretty much essentially does it for most fans.) Then there's the fact that Series 3 has at least one instance of RTD shoving down our throats via the Doctor or Martha how awesome Rose is.

I admit. I was never a fan of River, but learning that her origin is essentially the biggest cliche ever really doesn't go a whole way towards changing my mind.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

On a slight tangent... I really don't get the Rose hate. I'm sorry, I just don't. There have been companions far worse than her. And yes, she has faults and has made mistakes... faults and mistakes which she gets called on in the show itself.

The problem is that for the first series, she's basically the star of the show, not helped at all by the fact that Eccleston doesn't really seem to be into it at all. And in the second series, she became a lightning rod for controversy with the whole "relationship" angle worked throughout the whole thing. (For reference, look at her expression when Mickey asks to come in School Reunion, not to mention the last scene in Doomsday, which pretty much essentially does it for most fans.) Then there's the fact that Series 3 has at least one instance of RTD shoving down our throats via the Doctor or Martha how awesome Rose is.

I admit. I was never a fan of River, but learning that her origin is essentially the biggest cliche ever really doesn't go a whole way towards changing my mind.

Then it's my problem, too. Because although I really like Four, Seven and Eleven... my favorite companions in Old and New Who far trump my like for the Doc. Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana II, Ace, Donna, Jamie, Ian and Barbara... I love those more than the Doc.

As for the relationship... you know me, hopeless romantic. I 'shipped Four/Romana back in the day and had no problem with Ten and Rose. As for him in series three... he was in mourning for his lost love.

Like I said, it's a lot of me there.

[Burn]

Out of the new series, Donna was my favourite. But even she pales in comparrison to some of the older companions.

I will however make an exception or Rory. I feel he's developing well as a character and when you compare him to previous male companions he really stands out. The only one that comes close is Harry.

Excluding of course The Brigadier and Seargent Benson.

[Darth Bombshell]

Because although I really like Four, Seven and Eleven... my favorite companions in Old and New Who far trump my like for the Doc. Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana II, Ace, Donna, Jamie, Ian and Barbara... I love those more than the Doc.

I like Romana II, Sarah Jane, the Brig, Ace, and a lot of older companions, too. But none of them were as annoying as Rose was throughout Series One. And none of them turned into a great, big dues ex machina at the end, so on that note alone, Rose loses big points.

As for him in series three... he was in mourning for his lost love.

Thing is, we got it early on. It didn't really need to be hammered home as repeatedly as it was throughout the series. By the time the whole thing in "Sound of Drums" came along, I found myself wonder why RTD didn't convince Piper to stay if this was what we were getting ourselves into.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I like Romana II, Sarah Jane, the Brig, Ace, and a lot of older companions, too. But none of them were as annoying as Rose was throughout Series One. And none of them turned into a great, big dues ex machina at the end, so on that note alone, Rose loses big points.

Oh, son of a Thal, I forgot to list the Brigadier! One-punched the Master. twice! Second most badass companion of them all!

As for Rose, I just didn't find her annoying, and that deus ex machina nearly killed her. Kinda like Donna in series four, there.

Thing is, we got it early on. It didn't really need to be hammered home as repeatedly as it was throughout the series. By the time the whole thing in "Sound of Drums" came along, I found myself wonder why RTD didn't convince Piper to stay if this was what we were getting ourselves into.

Oh, I still wonder why she left. Or was written out or whatever.

[Renne]

Out of the new series, Donna was my favourite.

OH DONNA. I am so sorry you got completely shafted by TPTB, Donna, because apparently all you ever wanted was a lottery ticket and a husband.

[Burn]

Holy **** it's Renne!

[Cyber Bishop]

So... Was anyone expecting that to happen??

[Renne]

Holy **** it's Renne!

I ain't dead!