The Energon Pub

[njb902]

Just think about the fe's as well. Hasbro "downgraded" to prid to save money. Their change in focus, the uncertainty of plastic prices, and the rise in factory costs in China are really going to bite us I believe.


Edit: wow that is a huge block of text ya have there auto

[King Kuuga]

I know they can't make every figure we've ever wanted, but instead of making a Skyquake figure, since he was only in two episodes and one of them he's a zombie, why not put that money into Breakdown?

Hold the phone here. Skyquake is an obvious redeco choice from Dreadwing. True enough, the mold was initially going to be Skyquake, but I think Hasbro knew Dreadwing would be coming along so they could get a better use out of the mold than a character who appeared in 2 episodes. Maybe they even pushed for Dreadwing to be in the show so they'd be able to sell the toy. Either way it lines up with the animation studio claiming they always reuse things. So that money couldn't have gone to Breakdown.

I've noticed something... I think Breakdown WAS going to be a Hasbro release.

This is known. He has a transparent midsection for no reason if he was going to be strictly Takara, and originally he would have had more clear parts in his arms. Somewhere, Hasbro pulled out and Takara engineered it to be a little too complex for Hasbro to fit into their production budget. It would cost too much for a voyager, in other words.

Another good example... Masterpiece Thundercracker at TRU, right now. TJ Duckett did a video review of him, and he said the plastic is thin and you can see in the video where pins have been removed in favor of snap together segments, much like the PRID toys. Which worries me about Optimus V.2 when it comes out. Hasbro is clearly cutting corners. Takara, last I checked, does not. They cater more to the collector, and then kids, whereas it's in reverse here.

That's partially due to market share. Japan has A LOT more adult toy collectors than we do. Being a smaller country with a much denser population than the US helps a lot in manufacture and distribution, also. Hasbro sells toys differently than Takara, which includes strict manufacturing price budgets. MP toys are hard, sadly.

The quality between companies is astounding. Don't get me wrong, I love my Breakdown, but the Jet Vehicon is much more solid and feels like a real Transformer. Breakdown feels like a model, in some ways. Both in how it comes together and the materials used. It really does feel like model plastic in some spots. (Ridiculous, given the asking price.)

Japan also has a more stable economy than we currently do.

Just pointing some things out. I agree with everybody that if f***ing sucks that we can't get all the cast of the show as toys, and instead we get some toys that aren't in the show. I'm not entirely trying to defend Hasbro, but at the same time, I can sort of understand, from a toymakers' perspective in a bad economy, their decision-making process. We're getting Kup and Rumble instead of Jet Vehicon and Smokescreen because we've already got lots of flying Decepticons (Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, Dreadwing) but only one Decepticon car (Knock Out, and I guess Dead End counts). And we've got lots of Autobot cars, including an abundant red one (Cliffjumper), but no trucks. So we get a green truck (Kup) instead of a red one (Ironhide, who I still think we'll get in wave 7 or 8) or another white one like Wheeljack or Jazz, who is both on shelves right now. Now, I suspect we'll get a proper Smokescreen before this line is up. And I am willing to bet money that we'll get Voyager Breakdown and deluxe Jet Vehicon as Botcon exclusives in 2013 or so, because the club recognizes our desire. So all hope is not lost. It sucks, but hopefully this rut is kind of like G2, and someone will come along to give Hasbro a good kick in the right direction to revitalize the franchise. Maybe Bayformers 4 on the 30th anniversary will have some positive impact, as painful as that sounds.

[Autobot032]

Just think about the fe's as well. Hasbro "downgraded" to prid to save money. Their change in focus, the uncertainty of plastic prices, and the rise in factory costs in China are really going to bite us I believe.


Edit: wow that is a huge block of text ya have there auto

I can't see where PRID has saved them any money. I'd say quite the opposite, in fact.

1.) The FE tooling was done, there was no need for new molds of the exact same characters, for PRID. (This was their biggest mistake.)

2.) It's been said that complexity was cited as a concern. (Well, some FEs are worse than PRID, though some PRIDs have enough complexity to stand next to FE.)

I can't say that PRID's been a downgrade, really. Some of the figures in the line are clearly FE quality. (At least design wise.) I'd say their change in focus and their wanting to cut costs are the main things. I don't think they care much about the price of plastic because they're not going to be into toys after a certain point. I say it all the time, and I'm gonna stick to my guns, again: Hasbro will stop making toys at some point. They're too worried about shilling their shows and movies.

And yes. I'm a wordy fellow.

Hold the phone here. Skyquake is an obvious redeco choice from Dreadwing. True enough, the mold was initially going to be Skyquake, but I think Hasbro knew Dreadwing would be coming along so they could get a better use out of the mold than a character who appeared in 2 episodes. Maybe they even pushed for Dreadwing to be in the show so they'd be able to sell the toy. Either way it lines up with the animation studio claiming they always reuse things. So that money couldn't have gone to Breakdown.

Yes, it could've. You just said the studio reuses things. Well, Breakdown's being reused for Silas. There's two uses of the mold that could've happened. I'd say Silas is a big character, because he's been as much of a problem for the 'bots as the 'cons have. Might even be more dangerous, simply because he's near death and still finding a way to get around. With him "piloting" Breakdown, it makes the character model worthy of a toy.

This is known. He has a transparent midsection for no reason if he was going to be strictly Takara, and originally he would have had more clear parts in his arms. Somewhere, Hasbro pulled out and Takara engineered it to be a little too complex for Hasbro to fit into their production budget. It would cost too much for a voyager, in other words.

The complexity issue is what they tell us, but it's a load of crap. We've seen Hasbro put out far more complex designs and never say a word about it. The honest truth is, they're more focused on money being funneled into the media, than the toys. If the figures must be sacrificed, so be it.

That's partially due to market share. Japan has A LOT more adult toy collectors than we do. Being a smaller country with a much denser population than the US helps a lot in manufacture and distribution, also. Hasbro sells toys differently than Takara, which includes strict manufacturing price budgets. MP toys are hard, sadly.

Indeed, but you can't tell me that they couldn't afford the metal pins on some of the joints and hinges. I can't imagine that small metal pins have gone up to unmanageable prices in recent months. Granted, production costs have gone up, everywhere, I don't deny that, but omitting pins where really needed? If Hasbro's hurting that bad, then they need to cut back all over and restructure some things. Personally, I believe they're just going as cheap as possible and saving a buck at our expense. Remember, these are for kids, we don't really matter. So if it breaks on a kid, big whoop.

Japan also has a more stable economy than we currently do.

Truth.

Just pointing some things out. I agree with everybody that it f***ing sucks that we can't get all the cast of the show as toys, and instead we get some toys that aren't in the show. I'm not entirely trying to defend Hasbro, but at the same time, I can sort of understand, from a toymakers' perspective in a bad economy, their decision-making process. We're getting Kup and Rumble instead of Jet Vehicon and Smokescreen because we've already got lots of flying Decepticons (Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, Dreadwing) but only one Decepticon car (Knock Out, and I guess Dead End counts). And we've got lots of Autobot cars, including an abundant red one (Cliffjumper), but no trucks. So we get a green truck (Kup) instead of a red one (Ironhide, who I still think we'll get in wave 7 or or another white one like Wheeljack or Jazz, who is both on shelves right now. Now, I suspect we'll get a proper Smokescreen before this line is up. And I am willing to bet money that we'll get Voyager Breakdown and deluxe Jet Vehicon as Botcon exclusives in 2013 or so, because the club recognizes our desire. So all hope is not lost. It sucks, but hopefully this rut is kind of like G2, and someone will come along to give Hasbro a good kick in the right direction to revitalize the franchise. Maybe Bayformers 4 on the 30th anniversary will have some positive impact, as painful as that sounds.

With the cost of the show, with the cost of producing toys, with all that goes into the process, you'd think figures like Rumble, Kup, Cyberverse Ironhide, etc. wouldn't get made. Kids/collectors/fans want their cast figures, it's as simple as that. The cast figures sell rather well. Knock Out? Gone. Cyberverse Breakdown? Gone. Arcee? Gone. Yet redecos? Weighing down the pegs. It also doesn't help that Cliffjumper was killed off in the first minutes of the first episode. He's not selling, but only because he wasn't given a chance to connect with the audience. Breakdown has. Dreadwing has. I'd think getting the in show characters out there would be more important. Then you can worry about redecos, remolds, toyline only figures, etc. I know they have to get as much use out of the molds as possible, I know they have to get their investment costs back, I know they have to pad waves to keep the line going without running out before a certain time line, but Hasbro just doesn't seem to be running things as well as they once were.

Perhaps we didn't see how bad it was before and it's always been bad, or it really is getting worse. I'm inclined to believe it's getting worse. I remember when Beast Wars came out...you could pretty much find what you were looking for, if you looked hard enough. Now? You're lucky if you can even nab an item on eBay.

Wreckers Leadfoot? 'Nuff said.

(Oh, and banking on the next movie and the anniversary to bring an influx of positives? Probably not the best option for Hasbro. DOTM as a toyline wasn't all that great in the sales department. I'm still seeing cases of wave 1 Deluxes getting stocked, plus Family Dollar is receiving waves 3 and 4, right now @ $5.00 a figure.)

[PrymeStriker]

I know they can't make every figure we've ever wanted, but instead of making a Skyquake figure, since he was only in two episodes and one of them he's a zombie, why not put that money into Breakdown?

Hold the phone here. Skyquake is an obvious redeco choice from Dreadwing. True enough, the mold was initially going to be Skyquake, but I think Hasbro knew Dreadwing would be coming along so they could get a better use out of the mold than a character who appeared in 2 episodes. Maybe they even pushed for Dreadwing to be in the show so they'd be able to sell the toy. Either way it lines up with the animation studio claiming they always reuse things. So that money couldn't have gone to Breakdown.

Ultra Magnus and Thundertron are currently useless molds. That money could have gone to Breakdown.

Same thing with Rumble and Kup (and Dead End...sort of...). Don't get me wrong, I love the way these guys look and I wan't to pick them all up. But the money wasted on characters that weren't even in the show could go to Shockwave, Insecticon, Smokescreen, Breakdown, and others!

[King Kuuga]

This is where I'd really like to have my cake and eat it, too, because I like most of these non-show characters (Thundertron, Ultra Magnus, Ironhide, Kup, Rumble, Dead End, Hot Shot, and whoever else) and want their figures, but I also want Breakdown, Smokescreen, Jet Vehicon (locally), Unicron, etc. I actually have AM Breakdown and a Jet Vehicon (no regular Vehicon because they're freaking impossible to find), but I'd like them with paint apps and not stickers. Maybe I'm going against my own arguments above, but just because I understand (sort of) Hasbro's motivations, I still want my dang toys. And I think part of the problem is that they have so many concurrent lines. They have, currently: Bot Shots, Prime RID, Prime Cyberverse, Prime FE (soon), Generations FOC, Generations Asia (soon), and Rescue Bots. Excepting Rescue Bots, these are all inter-competing for the same shelf space. Hasbro is making roughly the same amount of Transformers that they used to, but now they're spread across multiple lines, leading to redundant figures and not very much shelf space per line. Hasbro sees it as expanding their brand. I see it as making it hard to find new toys. And it's annoying, I think we can all agree on that.

[Bubbah]

This is where I'd really like to have my cake and eat it, too, because I like most of these non-show characters (Thundertron, Ultra Magnus, Ironhide, Kup, Rumble, Dead End, Hot Shot, and whoever else) and want their figures, but I also want Breakdown, Smokescreen, Jet Vehicon (locally), Unicron, etc. I actually have AM Breakdown and a Jet Vehicon (no regular Vehicon because they're freaking impossible to find), but I'd like them with paint apps and not stickers. Maybe I'm going against my own arguments above, but just because I understand (sort of) Hasbro's motivations, I still want my dang toys. And I think part of the problem is that they have so many concurrent lines. They have, currently: Bot Shots, Prime RID, Prime Cyberverse, Prime FE (soon), Generations FOC, Generations Asia (soon), and Rescue Bots. Excepting Rescue Bots, these are all inter-competing for the same shelf space. Hasbro is making roughly the same amount of Transformers that they used to, but now they're spread across multiple lines, leading to redundant figures and not very much shelf space per line. Hasbro sees it as expanding their brand. I see it as making it hard to find new toys. And it's annoying, I think we can all agree on that.

Totally agree with you on this. I understand and am all for diversity in a line (not putting all your eggs in one basket, etc) but too much diversity creates a thinning of the overall brand. Transformers has survived nearly 30 years being robots that transform into vehicles/animals. Do they need to go into building blocks, or Bot-Shots or masks and Nerf style guns or RC cars? Not really. Yes they might be nice, but it thins out the brand. It's like being an investor. If you have $50, is it better to buy 5 stocks at $10, 10 stocks at $5 or 50 stocks at $1 each? Yeah the $1 ones might be nice, but they are going to net you very little return because you're input is too small. But only buying 1 at $50 isn't smart either because IF that one fails, you're screwed. Hasbro is doing the same thing here, they're thinning out the brand to the point of generating very little interest/return.

[King Kuuga]

I don't mind Kre-O or Rescue Bots because Kre-O (or Kreons, at least) is cool, Rescue Bots has a good TV show to support it, and neither of those is sharing shelf space with Prime, Generations, Bot Shots, etc. The cars, masks, etc, though, 100% agree. I want a robot that turns into a car, truck, jet, train, boat, tractor, animal, plant, or SOMETHING via my own hands. I don't want to crash them. I don't want to remote control them. I......don't mind small-scale stuff, because they're easier to collect and the playsets are pretty cool. They could probably work out a way to make the small-scale stuff integrate with the mainline, like in G1, but it is what it is. I also sorta like GenFOC, but this would be better released during a low-point in the Prime line, not when it's in full swing. Prime, Cyberverse, Bot Shots, GenFOC, RC stuff, soon to be Prime FE and Asians Generations at TRU. And the occasional large Masterpiece box. It's too much variety in the wrong ways.

[PrymeStriker]

I don't mind Kre-O or Rescue Bots because Kre-O (or Kreons, at least) is cool, Rescue Bots has a good TV show to support it, and neither of those is sharing shelf space with Prime, Generations, Bot Shots, etc. The cars, masks, etc, though, 100% agree. I want a robot that turns into a car, truck, jet, train, boat, tractor, animal, plant, or SOMETHING via my own hands. I don't want to crash them. I don't want to remote control them. I......don't mind small-scale stuff, because they're easier to collect and the playsets are pretty cool. They could probably work out a way to make the small-scale stuff integrate with the mainline, like in G1, but it is what it is. I also sorta like GenFOC, but this would be better released during a low-point in the Prime line, not when it's in full swing. Prime, Cyberverse, Bot Shots, GenFOC, RC stuff, soon to be Prime FE and Asians Generations at TRU. And the occasional large Masterpiece box. It's too much variety in the wrong ways.

I think we all agree that the toy system nowadays sucks. And even when Hasbro argues that they're doing all this stuff for kids, even the kids they say love the hell out of this stuff complain as much as we do. I went to the store one day to pick up a Transformer. I was looking for Vehicon; surprised that I had no luck? There was a kid, about 8 years old, with his mommy there in the aisle too. When he saw a bunch of Bumblebees, he said this (and I roughly quote): "Why is it always Bumblebee mommy? (yadda yadda)Where's Ironhide or Soundwave? (blah blah) I want someone other than Bumblebee!"

When the kid left the aisle, I laughed my ass off. Of course there's no Ironhide coming in this line (the poor kid's still on the movies), but still, not ever kid wants a damn Bumblebee drowning them. Why won't Hasbro just dump Bumblebee in the garbage can?

[King Kuuga]

Because KIDS LOVE BUMBLEBEE DONTCHA KNOW?
Hasbro doesn't quite get the difference between "Bumblebee is the favorite" and "Bumblebee is the only one anybody likes"

[BeastProwl]

Question.

Smokescreen was told Starscream was on earth, but that was it, right? Nobody told him about the Apex Armor.

So how did he know which relic to choose, let alone to formulate a plan to use it?

Nobody told him about Starscream, right? I'm just curios as to how he knew.

[njb902]

Question.

Smokescreen was told Starscream was on earth, but that was it, right? Nobody told him about the Apex Armor.

So how did he know which relic to choose, let alone to formulate a plan to use it?

Nobody told him about Starscream, right? I'm just curios as to how he knew.

Perhaps ratchet or one of the kids filled him in as the situation was developing.

[PrymeStriker]

Question.

Smokescreen was told Starscream was on earth, but that was it, right? Nobody told him about the Apex Armor.

So how did he know which relic to choose, let alone to formulate a plan to use it?

Nobody told him about Starscream, right? I'm just curios as to how he knew.

Perhaps ratchet or one of the kids filled him in as the situation was developing.

Probably one of the kids Jack, as Ratchet seemed to be busy dealing with Bulkhead.

[MasterSoundBlaster]

That or he figured that he would have a tactical advantage going into battle, then upon seeing the apex armor knew he could knock Starscream out of it using the relic.

[njb902]

That or he figured that he would have a tactical advantage going into battle, then upon seeing the apex armor knew he could knock Starscream out of it using the relic.

That's a interesting thought as well.

[Archanubis]

I think we all agree that the toy system nowadays sucks. And even when Hasbro argues that they're doing all this stuff for kids, even the kids they say love the hell out of this stuff complain as much as we do. I went to the store one day to pick up a Transformer. I was looking for Vehicon; surprised that I had no luck? There was a kid, about 8 years old, with his mommy there in the aisle too. When he saw a bunch of Bumblebees, he said this (and I roughly quote): "Why is it always Bumblebee mommy? (yadda yadda)Where's Ironhide or Soundwave? (blah blah) I want someone other than Bumblebee!"

When the kid left the aisle, I laughed my ass off. Of course there's no Ironhide coming in this line (the poor kid's still on the movies), but still, not ever kid wants a damn Bumblebee drowning them. Why won't Hasbro just dump Bumblebee in the garbage can?

In some ways, from what I've read, in some ways Hasbro is at the mercy of the retailers as much as they are their own decisions. It's one reason why the movie lines delayed the release of both Animated and Prime toys. The derth of Bumblebee toys could be as much a product of the retailers ordering that many toys in anticipation of kids picking them up.

Hopefully they'll realize their error when they notice the dust collecting on Bumblebee toys.

[King Kuuga]

I blame Wal Mart.

[BeastProwl]

This is ridiculous. If these stores want bumblebee, they can have them! Just don't be so stupid as to clog every shelf with 9 repaints of the same guy, with maybe one rare gem that someone missed, behind a peg stuffed with "The Bumble-fungus", and even then, it's never anyone your looking for. This isn't the first time this has happened either.

During Energon, I wanted Prowl SO BAD. But I could never find him. You know why? Inferno's a fire truck! Kids love Fire Trucks! Demolisher's a dump truck! kids love dump trucks!"

They used to charge extra for demolisher too, because he had "3 modes"

It's the same thing here. "Kids love bumblebee! More Bumblebees hasbro! They also love Optimus Prime! More of him too! What? Of course we dont want more dead ends and Megatrons, Bring on Optimus and Bee! they'll sell like hotcakes! And throw in some more of that red hammer guy with the horns, kids gotta love red cars."

[King Kuuga]

Cliffjumper's only prevalent because there were two of him in wave 1 and he hasn't had a lot of screentime. I think Wheeljack has had more, at this point. So he was packed more than he should have been, but nobody wants him because nobody knows who he even is. It's why I stand by the assertion that wave 1 was terrible. 3 Bumblebees (who was already clogging shelves from the 3 or 4 different DOTM Bumblebee toys), 2 Cliffjumpers and Wheeljacks (who nobody really knew who they were) and 1 Soundwave, a main character. That could have been 2 or 3 Soundwaves and we wouldn't have this problem with overabundant Cliffjumpers like we do now.

[Sabrblade]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

[PrymeStriker]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

Ooh! Me! Me!

And it's follow-up toyline (With all the guyz we no get and then some!)

[BeastProwl]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

I honestly dont know what to think. On one hand they are saying it continues beast wars. On another they say its for prime season 3 (Might explain the dinobots, huh?) but all and all, having season 3 be the beast season would be cool. Hell, maybe even a beast planet!?

What gets me is that they say new beast wars episodes, in cutting edge cgi, yet now they are saying its for prime. Well, wich is it?

[Bubbah]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

I can only hope this done right! I can't wait for it. I've got some confidence in the show going well, but the toy line worries me, especially considering how the current line is being messed with.

[PrymeStriker]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

I honestly dont know what to think. On one hand they are saying it continues beast wars. On another they say its for prime season 3 (Might explain the dinobots, huh?) but all and all, having season 3 be the beast season would be cool. Hell, maybe even a beast planet!?

What gets me is that they say new beast wars episodes, in cutting edge cgi, yet now they are saying its for prime. Well, wich is it?

Well, I for one think Season 3 is going to be about the Star Seekers (a league of Beast Pirates, ya know) hunting the Dinobots. Shockwave is also after them as he joins with the Decepticons. Hopefully this centers around the 'bots and 'cons hunting each others beast sub-groups. Hehe, it would make for an awesome Shockwave, Insecticon, Smokescreen toyline.

[PrymeStriker]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

I can only hope this done right! I can't wait for it. I've got some confidence in the show going well, but the toy line worries me, especially considering how the current line is being messed with.

I too (sort of) worry about the toyline. But as long as we get new molds of Shockwave, Insecticon and (hopefully) Smokescreen, and any other on-screen characters (like the Dinobots and hopefully the Star Seekers), I'm good. They could throw any other piece of crap they please in there.

[King Kuuga]

So... who else here is now excited for season 3 after that big hint we got?

I honestly dont know what to think. On one hand they are saying it continues beast wars. On another they say its for prime season 3 (Might explain the dinobots, huh?) but all and all, having season 3 be the beast season would be cool. Hell, maybe even a beast planet!?

What gets me is that they say new beast wars episodes, in cutting edge cgi, yet now they are saying its for prime. Well, wich is it?

Beast Warriors was the working title for Beast Machines, and people were pulling from that old publicity blurb before we found out that this instance of Beast Warriors was Prime season 3. Disregard all of that stuff, it's Prime S3, not Beast Wars.

Anyway. I'm excited and looking forward to it. If this gives us Insecticons, Dinobots, Predacons, and more, I'm all for it.