The Energon Pub

-Kanrabat- wrote:Arcee is supposed to be made out of curves, not boxes.

Eh. Humans aren't made out of boxes, there's no reason Arcee needs to be excessively non-rectilinear out of all the Transformers.

I guess the hip piece could be made wider to accentuate a female body shape. I don't think the shoulders could be pulled in that much on this design, though. (Although I might be wrong.) The altmode isn't strictly G1, but it's honestly not incredibly far off as a Cybertronian version.

Ok, I think it's been far enough from my first post I can expand on a certain point:

I like the Rock Lords, I don't think they're that ridiculous a concept, and I wish HasTak would reuse the concept.


Now hear me out.

There are two main reasons for this. The first is that I think one of their main points of ridicule is a major misconception: robots that turn into rocks is indeed a ridiculous concept, but only Nuggit is a clear-cut robot; while everyone else is much closer to an alien! It's basically the same mimesis we see all the time in nature, only expanded into actual shapeshifting. And if you think about it, rocks being such an innocuous and apparently ridiculous alt-mode can actually make them the scariest: everyone can notice an animal, object or vehicle, and it's very easy to make them seem out of place (remember the Autobots "hiding" in Sam's backyard in the first Bay movie?), but rocks are so commonplace and easy to ignore no one notices them, so how frightening would it be for an alien warrior to be hiding as one? That's half the reason the Granites were so good at ambushes in Inhumanoids!

Another reason is because, while not effective for transportation or fighting, I've actually seen a "rock mode" or similar concepts being played correctly, toy- or story-wise. When I grew up in Brazil, I followed a kids magazine called Recreio which had several edutainment collections; one of my favorite being the first iteration of RockAnimal, which focused on rocks that turned into animals sent by the Philosopher's Stone to study ancient human cultures (and 4 monsters sent by an ancient evil to stop them), their rock forms treated as a "sleep mode" they would revert to when sufficiently damaged or low on energy to recharge until awakened again. Something similar happens in Gargoyles, where their statue forms serve as a way to recharge and heal from their wounds; it even provides great dramatic tensions by imposing a time limit to their adventures and a period of vulnerability.



And if it's still too "boring", there are ways to work around it; Nuggit had jets, one could easily expand a third "transport" mode to the other characters as well, or snap-on armor that served as a vehicular frame in rock mode.

Well, I said my piece, now onto other stuff:

Emerje wrote:As far as I'm concerned TR Arcee is just regular Arcee armored up for combat.

Arcee = Samus in her Zero Suit
TR Arcee = Samus in her Power Armor



Emerje

That reminds me: Collaborative Samus. TJOmega already noticed the cancelled TS Bumblebee could be remolded into her gunship.



Also: plantformers. Not just Botanica, but others like the Treecons from IDW1, the cancelled BW triffid, and the wood-bots from the Red Wizard's army. Again, unusual and creative alt-modes really draw me in.

I adore the Rock Lords line. I also wish for the concept to be revisited.

However, another company is doing almost that with the huge BEASTBOX line.



So what I imagine is something similar to Beastbox, but with a "rock" outer shell.

MaximalNui wrote:Rock Lords

I think part of the problem is that when you're coming at them from a perspective of Transformers being the starting point, most Transformers have two 'action' or 'play value' modes. That's their thing. They usually have a robot mode, which is an action figure in itself, and an altmode which is usually equivalent to a toy vehicle - it can be 'driven' or 'flown' around, animal modes can be posed, etc.

Even the modes which aren't 'active' - something you'd expect to see moving around in some fashion - are usually interactive. Either they're something that a human would interact with, or they're something that another Transformer would interact with (most *Master small robot designs are this, as are Cassetticons), or they're something that could be expected to have some kind of interaction in Transformers media - this ranges from Transformers with giant cannon modes which shoot at things, to city modes which can have microbot-interaction features like ramps and jail cells and command platforms. Such altmodes also tend to come with a lot of fiddly bits to increase play value.

Rocks, as an altmode, don't do anything. They don't naturally move around. They're not used as tools by humans (if there are humans in the setting) or by each other. They don't cause long-range effects in their media which a child can imagine, like shooting laser bolts or rainbows or sprinkles.

Compare with other media which has 'rest mode' characters, like Gargoyles. The toys for that line don't focus on the 'do nothing mode' as a major component of the design and marketing. The show rarely focuses on characters who are lying around napping unless it's to show that someone _else_ is doing something nefarious during nap time. The turning-to-stone transformation is rarely seen as a positive or useful thing, whereas with Transformers, both modes have their advantages and characters will switch around all the time to make best use of either option.

It doesn't help that most of the Rock Lords designs are horribly clunky as humanoids, and only tend to be passable as rocks (and not folded-up golems) if they're mostly shellformers. Still, even assuming that modern design could come up with better options (which it probably could if you wanted to pay $20 for a plastic rock), there's extremely limited appeal to the rock modes. Transformer altmodes are visually interesting, ranging from intriguing futuristic alien machinery designs to "did a Transformer just drive down my street?!" Rock Lords are... you're not going to find a rock locally which looks like that, especially if they're supposed to be Go-Bot size. Even if you did, it's only ever just going to... sit there.

Even Transformers which turn into things which just sit there and don't have any moving parts, don't interact in any way, and so on, are likely to at least look interesting. Detailed mechanical surfaces and parts, all kinds of interesting doodads, and if they appeared in the cartoon they probably had light-up panels, or implausibly flew around in their altmode, or had some kind of tacked-on action/movement. Rock Lords just... sit there.

From a utilitarian perspective, Rock Lords are functionally equivalent to a robot which sits down and covers itself with a rock-patterned camouflage sheet. There is simply no play value, either in the physical toy or imaginary, in a rock. Or if there is, you have a far, far better imagination than most. (Is there Rock Lords fanfic? Has any of it ever managed to make their rock modes interesting or useful?)

Rock Lord talk means I have but one simple request:

Rock Lords can work if you change the context. Like for like, a Boulder Bot will never compete with a Transformer or GoBot. But!
Several Rock Lords, accompanying a Titan EG Ark. Could together, form a larger diorama/playset. Akin to large scale Fossilisers.



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Oh and tangentially...



This Titan as a figure would be nice!

Weird how so many latched onto the Rock Lords. I was actually expecting more people to focus on my other suggestions.

Geminii wrote:--snip--

Okay, I actually see and agree with most of your points (it's why I placed this on this topic), and some of my counterpoints don't really have much for Rock Lords as toys, but my nitpicky brain still feels the need to note a few things.

Geminii wrote:Even the modes which aren't 'active' - something you'd expect to see moving around in some fashion - are usually interactive. Either they're something that a human would interact with, or they're something that another Transformer would interact with (most *Master small robot designs are this, as are Cassetticons), or they're something that could be expected to have some kind of interaction in Transformers media - this ranges from Transformers with giant cannon modes which shoot at things, to city modes which can have microbot-interaction features like ramps and jail cells and command platforms. Such altmodes also tend to come with a lot of fiddly bits to increase play value.

And why not add some play value from their weapons/armor like I suggested?

Geminii wrote:Rocks, as an altmode, don't do anything. They don't naturally move around. They're not used as tools by humans (if there are humans in the setting) or by each other. They don't cause long-range effects in their media which a child can imagine, like shooting laser bolts or rainbows or sprinkles.

...

Seriously? Stones are some of the oldest tools humans have ever used; there's a reason it's called the Stone Age.
And rocks do have their own properties which can be exaggerated into abilities for rock beings: diamonds are durable so they can be the impenetrable armor/material guy, or crystals have refraction which can be expanded into energy attacks.

Geminii wrote:It doesn't help that most of the Rock Lords designs are horribly clunky as humanoids, and only tend to be passable as rocks (and not folded-up golems) if they're mostly shellformers. Still, even assuming that modern design could come up with better options (which it probably could if you wanted to pay $20 for a plastic rock), there's extremely limited appeal to the rock modes. Transformer altmodes are visually interesting, ranging from intriguing futuristic alien machinery designs to "did a Transformer just drive down my street?!" Rock Lords are... you're not going to find a rock locally which looks like that, especially if they're supposed to be Go-Bot size. Even if you did, it's only ever just going to... sit there.

Um, what? Rocks don't usually have a defined shape; that normally shows up on crystals or laminated rocks like schist, otherwise they tend to be pretty amorphous anyway.

Geminii wrote:From a utilitarian perspective, Rock Lords are functionally equivalent to a robot which sits down and covers itself with a rock-patterned camouflage sheet. There is simply no play value, either in the physical toy or imaginary, in a rock. Or if there is, you have a far, far better imagination than most. (Is there Rock Lords fanfic? Has any of it ever managed to make their rock modes interesting or useful?)

Well, I did usually make stories as a kid with toy catalogue images, pictured dictionaries or a toy's broken arm.
... I was a weird child.
Anyway, I would normally agree with this, if BotBots hadn't been launched 4 years ago. I mean, they even have three rock-mode bots already - more if they ever release the Gifted Guild from the cancelled/delayed original Season 6.
Also a lot of plantformers; seems like that line is a bit of a dumping ground for unconventional/silly altmodes

Nemesis Primal wrote:Rock Lord talk means I have but one simple request:

animated rock lord.png

Honestly, that's kinda what introduced me to the concept, and the scene it's first introduced in perfectly encapsulates my point on the stealth and terror potential of a rock mode. And it makes me think of another way they could work: more "cosmic" altmodes like planets, moons, asteroids and comets. We need more variety aside from constantly remaking Primus and Unicron; it's not like there's a lack of characters.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Rock Lords can work if you change the context. Like for like, a Boulder Bot will never compete with a Transformer or GoBot. But!
Several Rock Lords, accompanying a Titan EG Ark. Could together, form a larger diorama/playset. Akin to large scale Fossilisers.



+



=



Oh and tangentially...



This Titan as a figure would be nice!

Oh, great idea! What about a combining temple- or totem-bot? That magazine I followed also had two collections around that.




And yeah, Watchtower would be really cool, but I doubt they'll ever release a Titan Collaborative. We're far more likely to get a reissue/remold of Gigawatt with Skilz. Otherwise, I'd much prefer a Fortress Tiberius first.
Still, there's another crossover design they've yet to use.

Diastone pilots.

seeing as the closest to diaclone quality transformers get these days is a repaint, they should do the diaclone pilot figures for the dinobots under a new name. The first being Fred.

Fred would come with a chair that plugs into ss86 Sludges hollow torso in dino mode. Fred would have oversized caveman feet to raise sludge slightly off the ground making him taller than slag. Motorisation makes a come back and Fred Diastone can Yabadabadoo Sludge around the room.

If third party centurions can get some motorised action it's time for transformers/zoids crossovers or just a new star convoy with his motorised bits

I laughed out loud at the idea of Sludge being Flintsoned around!

But seriously, I would love to see "G1" sized "Diaclone" figures representing the human characters. I guess the closer we could get are TR titan-masters without the backpack. They would be roughly 8n scale with Generations toys.

Whenever the deluxe-class minibot update schedule inevitably rolls around to Tailgate, I'd love to see a Selects Wipeout to go with Trypticon.

blackeyedprime wrote:Diastone pilots.

seeing as the closest to diaclone quality transformers get these days is a repaint, they should do the diaclone pilot figures for the dinobots under a new name. The first being Fred.

Fred would come with a chair that plugs into ss86 Sludges hollow torso in dino mode. Fred would have oversized caveman feet to raise sludge slightly off the ground making him taller than slag. Motorisation makes a come back and Fred Diastone can Yabadabadoo Sludge around the room.

If third party centurions can get some motorised action it's time for transformers/zoids crossovers or just a new star convoy with his motorised bits

-Kanrabat- wrote:I laughed out loud at the idea of Sludge being Flintsoned around!

But seriously, I would love to see "G1" sized "Diaclone" figures representing the human characters. I guess the closer we could get are TR titan-masters without the backpack. They would be roughly 8n scale with Generations toys.

Honestly, I'd love a Diaclone/Transformers crossover. Not just the usual repaint homages: an actual crossover, mixing the Transformers characters with the Diaclone reboot pilots and mecha. Or with the other robot properties of TakaraTomy, like Zoids. However, I doubt it'll happen since aside from Zoids most of those properties are really obscure (Starriors) or exclusive to Japan (Diaclone).

A few other suggestions:
- A triple-changer Grand Mal. I don't care about scale or if the robot mode is like the previous toy or the blink-and-you'll-miss-it schematic in BM, I just want a Grand Mal that turns into the Darksyde.


- Speaking of, the Diagnostic Drone. Even if it's just an accessory to boost up another figure's pricing and/or play value (I could see it with Vehicon Thrust/Cycle Drone or BM Megatron).

- More old-timey vehicle modes. There's a lot of cool vehicle designs there to explore, and would certainly fit all those "they've been here the whole time" conspiracy storylines that sometimes crop up.


- Rail Racer. A pity that the original didn't really fit Hasbro's price points, since that probably means they won't be reissued or updated anytime soon.

- Reverse-pretenders. I know Pretenders can be a bit...divisive (I certainly think they have potential, but have never been fully or well explored both toy and media-wise), but I think humans that become actual transformers would be a much more accepted concept. I could see them working like that Nezha figure (what happened to that series, anyway?), with a small human figure that fits the vehicle's cockpit and the robot's torso.

Gonna add this one in here: the design for Rodimus in Last bot Standing. It is suitably awesome in many ways, among which is the unique head and the wagon alt mode. Plus the old man slouch

MaximalNui wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Diastone pilots.

- Rail Racer. A pity that the original didn't really fit Hasbro's price points, since that probably means they won't be reissued or updated anytime soon.

I'd like to hope that in the wake of MP Raiden that the powers consider an updated release of these cool train-bots...'nuff said!

Transformers VS GI Joe - Cobra La Galvatron

'Cobra La' is not a fondly remembered term. That was a very weird angle for the show to go down. But the Versus book was a literal goldmine of unused designs and personally, I like this as an "organic" Galvatron. A shame I couldn't find a coloured version.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Transformers VS GI Joe - Cobra La Galvatron

'Cobra La' is not a fondly remembered term. That was a very weird angle for the show to go down. But the Versus book was a literal goldmine of unused designs and personally, I like this as an "organic" Galvatron. A shame I couldn't find a coloured version.

GI Joe the Movie is one of my favorite cartoon movie from the 1980's. I like it even more than TF '86.

Having transformers going full biological abomination would be amazing for a line.

-Kanrabat- wrote:GI Joe the Movie is one of my favorite cartoon movie from the 1980's. I like it even more than TF '86.

While I still put TF:TM on a much higher pedestal then GI:Joe TM, it is definntely a favorite of mine. In fact, I probably only watched a handful of GI Joe episodes in it's original run. Usually where I lived GI Joe and Transformers were part of the same hour of TV. When GI Joe came on however (whether before or after Transformers in the afternoon...it varied), I'd flip to another channel.

However in fall 1986 when FFOD aired, so did the"Arise Serpentor!", mini series so I watched them both simultaneously and GI Joe, with it's expanded roster, started to grow on me. GI Joe The Movie was the lynchpin. As a result in the early 90's when DiC continued the series, I was able to catch all of the older Sunbow stuff I had missed in reruns.

With that said, that Galvatron looks cool. Of all the TF/GI Joe crossovers from Marvel, to DW, Image, DDP, IDW etc... I think the miniseries "The Art of War" was my favorite.

While I did like some of Cobra's roster, it wasn't a show I saw more of than The Movie and one storyline with a weather machine (the name escapes me). Ironically, I heard Cobra Commander before Starscream. So I always associate Latta's voice with the former, not the latter.

The show that I always switched the channel for was Mask. Never took to that at all.

Given that is Cobra La Galvatron. I'd expect a funky colour scheme, in keeping with those characters...

Could Canopy from TLK pass as a Rock Lord?

Rodimus Prime wrote:Could Canopy from TLK pass as a Rock Lord?

He's a little more like Stonedar and Rokkon from Masters of the Universe. He just sort of stands up with all the garbage on his back.



Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Could Canopy from TLK pass as a Rock Lord?

He's a little more like Stonedar and Rokkon from Masters of the Universe. He just sort of stands up with all the garbage on his back.


Emerje

Goddammit, you had to point out something so cool that I just can't resist in buying.

Looking through eBay.


Well... hum.... Looks like I can resist after all.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Emerje wrote:
Well... hum.... Looks like I can resist after all.

Hopefully MOTU origins will get to them eventually

AllNewSuperRobot wrote: A shame I couldn't find a coloured version.

https://www.deviantart.com/roadbusterdo ... n-88274449

Getting Beast Hunters Shockwave vibes from that.


Emerje

Geminii wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote: A shame I couldn't find a coloured version.

https://www.deviantart.com/roadbusterdo ... n-88274449

Emerje wrote:Getting Beast Hunters Shockwave vibes from that.Emerje

Indeed. Thanks for the spot, but now I'm disappointed by how plain he is.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Transformers VS GI Joe - Cobra La Galvatron

-Kanrabat- wrote:Having transformers going full biological abomination would be amazing for a line.

Between this and Hearts of Steel, we really need an Elseworlds-style line.

Speaking of G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers and crossovers in general:
- How cool would it be to have one of these as a Voyager or Leader-sized Weaponizer?...Actually, come to think of it, why haven't we had Weaponizers outside the Deluxe class?

- Do you think they might do preestablished crossover characters for Collaborative? Because I'd love to see Stardrive and Octus for ROM Spaceknight and Doctor Who respectively.



On another note, a common argument as to why Hasbro doesn't try to redo Japanese-exclusive characters is because they have very little chance of being remolded...but I just remembered two entire teams with such potential: the three smaller Brainmasters and the Breastforce, who in Europe became the Motorvators and the Rescue Force. They might even be able to give the latter two proper combiner modes instead of...this: