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Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:41 pm

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TulioDude wrote:I believe that these headlines are overselling the idea of how much control Michael Bay has over the Transformers

We can conclude while Michael Bay still gives his feedback to ideas and other aspects, he is a part of larger team. Paramount and Hasbro show to understand that Transformers are too big, to have just one voice deciding everything.


Yes, Michael Bay is part of a team of producers, but he still has as much power as anyone else, not less. Also, he is CEO of the Bay Films production company which helps to bankroll these movies, along with simply being a producer of the movies. So that adds an extra wrinkle to how much he has invested and the power he has.

On a different topic, I never could get the final numbers from Japan because it's all scattered with different movie grosses coming from different places. But in short, Japan won't save this film from being the lowest grossing live action Transformers film ever, and that's before adjusting for inflation. Other websites are reporting on that, don't know if it would be redundant to do it as well here one final time.

https://www.slashfilm.com/1366244/rise- ... %20million.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby TulioDude » Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:10 pm

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First-Aid wrote:
OK. I have to say this is impressive work. Well done putting all this stuff together. And I agree 100%.


Thanks, I appreciate it.

william-james88 wrote:Yes, Michael Bay is part of a team of producers, but he still has as much power as anyone else, not less. Also, he is CEO of the Bay Films production company which helps to bankroll these movies, along with simply being a producer of the movies. So that adds an extra wrinkle to how much he has invested and the power he has.



Never said that he did have less power, just that the way the news is being told is focusing too much on Michael Bay, leading some people to idea he is the main person making the decisions.

cloudballoon wrote:
Is it really 100% "bad timing" or was Paramount soundly beat at the Box office by its rivals with better products though? IIRC Paramount was gun-ho being the first studio to reserve that time block to premiere? Then its rivals came, saw, and was like "Sure... I'm afraid of no ROTB." I think bad strategy played a bigger role than just blame on "bad timing."



I think this one of the biggest challenges they have. If Paramount chooses a date for the film first and another movie chooses a nearby date, should they have to move it to another date?
Last edited by TulioDude on Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby cloudballoon » Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:59 pm

TulioDude wrote:If Paramount chooses a date for the film first and another movie chooses a nearby date, should they have to move it to another date?


Not unheard of. Recent example that I know of is the Avatar 2 juggernaut, causing DC to avoid direct competition by moving Shazam! 2. And even Disney is moving release date for Wicked in 2024 to avoid Avatar 3.

https://www.cinemablend.com/movies/wick ... helle-yeoh
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:26 am

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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby TulioDude » Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:53 am

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That's great to hear!
The film did a good job with the setting in Peru.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby cloudballoon » Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:30 pm

TulioDude wrote:

That's great to hear!
The film did a good job with the setting in Peru.



But... but... all I hear in the movie was "Brooklyn, Baby!"

While Peru was featured as a setting, it feels so... background-ny to me. I thought we'd get more.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby TulioDude » Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 pm

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cloudballoon wrote:
TulioDude wrote:

That's great to hear!
The film did a good job with the setting in Peru.



But... but... all I hear in the movie was "Brooklyn, Baby!"

While Peru was featured as a setting, it feels so... background-ny to me. I thought we'd get more.


I agree that the Brooklyn aspect didn't feel necessary, but the parts at Peru itself, did represent the country as a unique setting. Many movies would've just said "somewhere in south america" and cut the scene to a jungle. It seens a small thing, but it means a lot to the peolple who live there.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby cloudballoon » Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:51 pm

TulioDude wrote:I agree that the Brooklyn aspect didn't feel necessary, but the parts at Peru itself, did represent the country as a unique setting. Many movies would've just said "somewhere in south america" and cut the scene to a jungle. It seens a small thing, but it means a lot to the peolple who live there.


That's true. Who'd have thought a TF movie would do better than many other, more serious movies. I'm just greedy and wanted to see more of Peru in ROTB, as we know there are more footage than what we saw in theatre.

I hope the bonus features in the DVD do show a bit more. And we can dream of a Director's Cut, can we?
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:14 am

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cloudballoon wrote:
TulioDude wrote:

That's great to hear!
The film did a good job with the setting in Peru.



But... but... all I hear in the movie was "Brooklyn, Baby!"

While Peru was featured as a setting, it feels so... background-ny to me. I thought we'd get more.


And the Brooklyn scenes weren't even shot there, they were shot in Montreal.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby First-Aid » Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:00 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
cloudballoon wrote:
TulioDude wrote:

That's great to hear!
The film did a good job with the setting in Peru.



But... but... all I hear in the movie was "Brooklyn, Baby!"

While Peru was featured as a setting, it feels so... background-ny to me. I thought we'd get more.


And the Brooklyn scenes weren't even shot there, they were shot in Montreal.


It's amazing how many movies are being shot outside the main studios in Hollywood. Georgia and Vancouver are becoming very prevalent in movie-making. Why NOT shoot in Brooklyn for a Brooklyn scene? Availability of areas is one possibility. Taxes and costs are the most likely scenario though. That's a large contributor to why so many movie studios are moving outside LA/California. Just too expensive to shoot there anymore, let alone house the size of the cast and crew temporarily anymore.
It finally happened. The Chicago Cubs won the World Series. Yes, I cried.

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First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.


Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...


Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby TulioDude » Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:09 pm

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cloudballoon wrote:
TulioDude wrote:I agree that the Brooklyn aspect didn't feel necessary, but the parts at Peru itself, did represent the country as a unique setting. Many movies would've just said "somewhere in south america" and cut the scene to a jungle. It seens a small thing, but it means a lot to the peolple who live there.


That's true. Who'd have thought a TF movie would do better than many other, more serious movies. I'm just greedy and wanted to see more of Peru in ROTB, as we know there are more footage than what we saw in theatre.

I hope the bonus features in the DVD do show a bit more. And we can dream of a Director's Cut, can we?


If they want the to Maximals appear again,they could show them in Peru first, before joinning up with Autobots.

First-Aid wrote:
It's amazing how many movies are being shot outside the main studios in Hollywood. Georgia and Vancouver are becoming very prevalent in movie-making. Why NOT shoot in Brooklyn for a Brooklyn scene? Availability of areas is one possibility. Taxes and costs are the most likely scenario though. That's a large contributor to why so many movie studios are moving outside LA/California. Just too expensive to shoot there anymore, let alone house the size of the cast and crew temporarily anymore.


That makes sense. If they can save budget by recreating a location instead of paying the tax for filming in a city, they will do it.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:34 pm

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One of the recent Star Trek: Strange New World episodes pokes fun at the One place standing in for another aspect. The characters think they're in new York at first but it turns out to be Toronto (if I recall), a place often used in a stand in for other cities.
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Where to buy the Ultra Limited Vinyl Release of the Rise of the Beasts Soundtrack

Postby william-james88 » Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:22 am

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Any vinyl lovers out there? Well the Transformers Rise of the Beasts soundtrack is coming out on vinyl on December 15th and a bunch of stores have it for preorder. Below is a list of places to preorder it in the US and Canada. It is limited to 500 copies according to the listings. The music is by, who we interviewed. You can check out that interview below of you haven't already.

Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Ris ... formers-20

Best Buy https://www.bestbuy.com/site/transforme ... l=nosplash

Bull Moose https://www.bullmoose.com/p/36760209/tr ... 0g-ltd-500

Zia Records https://www.ziarecords.com/p/14929845/t ... 0g-ltd-500

Amazon.ca https://www.amazon.ca/Transformers-Beas ... 123&sr=8-1

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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:07 pm

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Stay tuned to the very end for a bonus clip after the Spider-Man 2 PS5 promo:

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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:34 pm

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Here is the video where David Sobolov finally explains the "I'll clear the way!" line from ROTB, beginning at 5:28:

"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Tyrannacon » Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:20 pm

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Well, I finally saw ROTB thanks to it being free to view on Amazon Prime this month. To be cut and dry about it, I really did not enjoy it. There's some stuff I liked, but once again I feel like we're being given the same MacGuffin plot over again. Honestly, I feel like someone needs to stop letting Michael Bay have a damn thing to do with the Transformers brand entirely at this point. I know he's the executive producer in this case, but amazingly it felt like he was directing this one because it took almost everything the Bumblebee movie did right and tossed it out the window. Then again, some people enjoy these movies for the simple fact they're the same rehashed plot again and again as it does nothing new or monumental that the other ones haven't already done. The film I feel does balance out Bay's common tropes. It does some things better in fact, but I still find his influence on the series to cast this over looming shadow of disorder and greater dysfunction upon the entire series that keeps it from ever achieving and realizing the potential it has to be better than it is. His decisions I feel hold the series back completely though, especially with this obsession with the MacGuffin-type plot. It's seriously where I thought of this bit from American Dad to describe my experience with the Transformers live-action films.

youtireme.jpg


Yeah. I'm tired. I'm tired of the MacGuffin plot. It's been simply DONE. TO. DEATH. I swear if Transformers One indicates even slightly some type of MacGuffin I'm going to bellow so loud that everyone in the next town over can hear me. XD :P

After The Last Knight used the MacGuffin plot for the fifth time in the series and Rise of the Beasts has now used it for the sixth time, I think Hasbro needs to look at Michael Bay and say "no more" going forward unless the format is done entirely different. What I mean is that the MacGuffin plot has a formula to it. Something bad happened long ago, some crucial device is hidden/entrusted to be hidden, our heroes find out about the device, the device needs to be acquired before bad guys who are also looking for said device, the device is used destructively, there's a big long drawn out battle that destroys a country's infrastructure, good guys win the day and device is either destroyed outright or turned into something else. Let's not forget to add in some awkward emotional development and inclusion of human sub-plots with relationships and family to drive some kind of point home regarding the morality of our main human characters.

Enough. Just...ENOUGH! Seriously.

I love Transformers and I just am tired of seeing it mishandled by Bay (and his group) who clearly doesn't understand the source material. Frankly, I feel like Kurtzman and Orci had a better grasp of the source material than anyone else even and that goes back to the '07 film. Bay and his groupies have no idea on how continuity works, and they just decided to make something loud and pretty so people are taken in by the splendor of CGI and SFX. It's an advertisement to sell toys. What happened? I thought the brand itself was growing beyond this. I mean G1 cartoon has some heart, yes, but it is a shameless toy commercial ultimately and a product of the 80s. ROTB is like that in a lot of ways though too so maybe that was intentional? I want more stories with the Decepticons and Megatron though, as both are big staples of the brand. The brand itself was specifically founded on both Optimus Prime and Megatron, and the Autobot and Decepticons battling each other. Make it a war movie, do it from the perspective of the Transformers themselves. Get rid of the human drama BS, but then I don't think the general audience can relate with the Cybertronians anymore than a fish can be taught poetry.

So the good, I think the usage of Unicron and Scourge (and calling the Terrorcons Novakane and Feezer his Sweeps/along with their clones) was a nice little thing. Plus giving Scourge some character moments (along with a few lines from the others). Unicron, this version, seemed on the same level as both the '86 movie and even in Transformers: Prime as ominous and foreboding in terms of presence. This is essentially how Unicron is always seen and frankly, I like they nailed this. I was really happy he was portrayed separately from Earth this time, but then you have the fact that this movie wants to keep playing in that particular sandbox by going back and being a prequel of sorts to Bay's previous films. Frankly, I see the series at this point more of a Mobius strip where it twists and turns upon itself infinitely, but the problem is the contradictions within the contradictions that exist. If you look at the Terminator movies, this is an example of an overlapping and contradictory timeline that adjusts itself in each sequel to go into a different split. The problem with Rise of the Beasts? It's less intelligent about it. The final thing is the female characters in the film seemed to not be as one-dimensional and had characterization and even some worthwhile development. I would say Elena Wallace was more than a pretty face, which was great. Arcee, Airazor, and Nightbird had some also great characterizations as well. As for everyone else, Optimus Prime seemed back to being a grumpy psychopath like he is commonly portrayed in the Bayverse, Mirage was Pete Davidson - had many of his...qualities that are just basically Pete Davidson, Wheeljack was given an ounce more of characterization than he had in DOTM but then we're ignoring those movies still at the same time they happen in this timeline? IDK!

Optimus Primal was more of a move-the-plot-along character which is a shame. He does provide some needed exposition, which is nice, but he along with the others (Cheetor and Rhinox) are just there to be plot devices. For this being called Rise of the Beasts, it was lacking in Beasts in their Beast Wars movie, yes? *tap tap* Hello?! Sorry, my inner Ian Malcolm came through for the moment here.

Do you know what I miss about Beast Wars? Garry Chalk! While I love Ron Pearlman, the voice of Optimus Primal is none other than Garry Chalk and he should've been here for this. Hell, David Kaye would have been nice as the Predacon Megatron in this as well. I think that's one thing I enjoyed about the War For Cybertron series on Netflix, even though they didn't have the original voice actors they at least told a somewhat decent story, and they even changed things up to do things differently enough to make it new.

In the end, ROTB will be forgotten and we'll all move on. I know it did some cool stuff, but at the end of the day I don't think it offered anything we haven't gotten already and frankly, I'm tired of that being the common theme with these movies. I think the live-action series is dead to me at this point, but if anyone else still enjoys it, good on them. I hope you people that enjoy it keep finding them enjoyable. I haven't found them enjoyable in a long time. Let's get to the next Transformers media project, shall we? See if it is any better.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:39 pm

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Tyrannacon wrote:I swear if Transformers One indicates even slightly some type of MacGuffin I'm going to bellow so loud that everyone in the next town over can hear me. XD :P
Unfortunately, it'll likely involve the original launch of the AllSpark from Cybertron, which has since became the default go-to for the evergreen Transformers backstory.

At the end of the day, the brand still wouldn't be so shackled to the Bay movies if said Bay movies hadn't made billions upon billions of dollars for Hasbro. That's really what it boils down to. :ic$:
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Tyrannacon » Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:08 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Tyrannacon wrote:I swear if Transformers One indicates even slightly some type of MacGuffin I'm going to bellow so loud that everyone in the next town over can hear me. XD :P
Unfortunately, it'll likely involve the original launch of the AllSpark from Cybertron, which has since became the default go-to for the evergreen Transformers backstory.

At the end of the day, the brand still wouldn't be so shackled to the Bay movies if said Bay movies hadn't made billions upon billions of dollars for Hasbro. That's really what it boils down to. :ic$:


Sadly true. Of course, I suspect it might cause people to be upset if the films took a more cerebral approach or tried to be more like the IDW 2005 continuity. Money talks and there's been a lot of it thanks to Bay and his crappy style.

I did forget about the AllSpark being the new MacGuffin origin story. I guess in that situation I feel like that is probably a bit more acceptable, albeit not by much, than the typical affair. Then again I'm sure there's gonna be some level of continuity-defying moment that throws the timeline upside down in another twist. I wish they'd just come out and say "We're rebooting the series" and not be so completely and bullheadedly indirect about it. Oh well. Hopefully, the writing and dialogue will be better in the next. I felt that the dialogue between the human characters over ROTB was a bit forced.
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ROTB Optimus Prime Lead Designer Discusses Why the Face Looks Similar to the 2007 Movie

Postby william-james88 » Mon Nov 18, 2024 10:50 am

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Rassoul Edji was one of the lead VFX designers on Rise of the Beasts, and is responsible for, among other things, the head face and battle mask of Optimus Prime. He took to Twitter to discuss at length about the process and studio notes he received from Paramount, including how the film was meant to be a soft prequel to the 2007 movie. Read on for all the info.

I modelled the head, face, and battle mask for Optimus Prime for #Transformers ROTB.

I also designed his new "centurion" open battle mask look along with it's animation.

The director wanted the face to resemble the face from the 2007 Transformers film as ROTB was a soft-prequel to it but also wanted it to be tweaked to fit the new design and for us to give it some new unique features.

This is where we came up with the new mask design which doesn't get entirely hidden when open. Instead, it gets stored on the side of his cheeks, like a Roman centurions helmet.

The head design is derived from his model from the 2018 Bumblebee film to keep some consistency with that film too as ROTB was also a soft-sequel to Bumblebee. There are new pieces, adjusted proportions, and reworks to detailing in ROTBs version.

The face proportions are modified from the 2007 face to be a lot wider and beefier, matching his new head shape and look.

I redesigned and built the eyes from scratch using our kitbash pieces like I did for all the Maximals and Mirage. The studio decided against going for the holographic eyes look from the 2018 Bumblebee film but rather wanted a more simple look in between the 2007 and the 2018 eyes.

I added a lot of small mechanical details to his battle mask animation which we unfortunately never get to see in the film. For example, I designed a fully functional mechanism which pushes his chin piece back when his mask closes. This was very cool when it was visible, our Animation Director and VFX Supervisors were super excited about it, but unfortunately no shot showed it off in the final film.

It was a lot of fun to help model and design Optimus Prime for this film. I'm happy I got to contribute to such an iconic character.

CREDITS:
Video: Paramount, MPC, WetaFX
Ruairidh MacNeill modelled the body for Optimus


Let me clarify that despite being a Lead on this show, I personally did not decide to do any of these changes. All of these decisions came from senior leadership in the VFX studio, Paramount, and the director. We are usually provided with concept art or at least references for what needs to be done and we have to do it that way.

The only bit of this design which I had creative freedom for was the centurion battle mask, which also had a few different versions which I showed to the director, Paramount, and VFX leadership team for approval.


I’m glad the teams work on breathing emotions into his facial expressions paid off, I remember how hard everyone worked on them!


My personal favourite Optimus Prime design is the Dark of the Moon one so I do agree with you. I pushed back on some of the studio notes but at the end of the day we have to do what the studio tells us to do.


It was decided by the leadership team to add a bit of deformation to the faces of the characters to help them emote.


The reason [to show his face under the mask] was because they needed him to emote and it’s really difficult to do that with just the mask. The 2018 Prime is more of a cameo than anything so it works, for this film they wanted him to show emotions through his facial performance.


Despite what the director has said online, we never got the note [to make the face look like Cullen] from the studio or from him. The official note we received from Paramount was "make it look like Optimus from 2007"

Perhaps the 2007 design was inspired by Peter Cullens face and that's what he meant.


[There are] Around 1,350 [pieces on the head alone] if I remember correctly.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Silver Wind » Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:29 pm

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"Soft" this, "soft" that.

I liked the 2018 Bumblebee film well enough (only re-watch the Cybertron scene though), but Paramount needs to grow beyond Michael Bay, grow beyond the same stale writing formula, and do something about their sub-par marketing campaigns.

If the people in charge could do those three things, then perhaps their bottom line would improve. But that involves risk and I don't see the company taking it any time soon.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Solrac333 » Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:57 pm

They REALLY need to get away from the Bay films instead of trying to make this and the Bumblebee movie a "soft" prequel.
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby EvasionModeBumblebee » Tue Nov 19, 2024 3:19 pm

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I enjoyed ROTB a lot more than BB, and part of that was the robot designs. While connecting the Bay movies and BB/ROTB from a story perspective doesn't work much at all, I do hope that the robot designs are something we continue to see carried forwards, at least to some extent!
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Re: Transformers 7: Rise of the Beasts Discussion Thread

Postby Quantum Surge » Tue Nov 19, 2024 5:10 pm

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I always loved the unmasked look for Optimus in this movie, and I always felt the changes added in ROTB worked in making a more convincing younger Bayverse Prime compared to how his design in Bumblebee looked where it felt more like an AI generator was told to make a Movie-style Prime just once without further tweaks.
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