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Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Coptur » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:42 am

I do like the idea of Alpha Bravo, Rook & Off-Road they expand and add growth upon the established teams which in my book can only be a good thing for the brand.



<<sorry I meant I DO like...>> :HEADHURTS: :HEADHURTS: :HEADHURTS:
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:12 am

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You don't like it? :P

I get what you're saying and I agree. In fact I think these groups should include more extra members to add even more variety.

Best of both worlds as those just wanting the original members can have them and the rest can enjoy the new members. In fact I've decided that slingshot will join my prime team as I've realised that it's possible to make a team of bots that have died and come back to life. Alpha Bravo can enjoy being part of Superion
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Desslok2201 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:15 am

Coptur wrote:I don't like the idea of Alpha Bravo, Rook & Off-Road they expand and add growth upon the established teams which in my book can only be a good thing for the brand.

My objections to AB, Rook and Off Road are not that I don't want growth in the brand, it seems like a half step, kind of half assed.
First, a team of jets that travel around 3-500 mph has to wait on a helicopter to catch up with them to combine. That's like if a team of bullet trains had to wait on a skateboard.
Also, Alpha Bravo is a stupid name, which glaringly doesn't fit with the rest of the team's names. I mean, you can have the rest of the teams change their names endlessly due to copyrights, and they still seem to fit. And why Alpha Bravo? Why not Charlie Delta or Whiskey X-Ray?
Mainly my complaint is, why tinker with an established team when you could do so much more? Instead of taking all the effort into an unneccesary tweak, take AB, Rook, Off Road, add two more and Bam- new combiner team. When's the last time we've had a legitimately new one of those? I'm sure with the enormous pool of talent that Hasbro and IDW have at their disposal, they can come up with a combiner name that just doesn't take an old team name and put a suffix like maximus or prime on it. Annihilus? Destructor? There's two, and I'm on a rant and don't get paid for this.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby peaces » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:18 am

we're getting a new combiner team in 2016
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Desslok2201 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:24 am

peaces wrote:we're getting a new combiner team in 2016

If you mean the fan chosen combiner, that's a step in the right direction, but I'd love to see what they did when they first came out with the combiners- new distinct teams.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Cyber Bishop » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:25 am

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After the revelation of Slingshot and the IDW photos of Defensor with what looks like Alpha Bravo as an arm is it safe to say that maybe he is not an Aerialbot and maybe he is actually a Protectobot and is the new Blades? I mean I looked all over his card and see nothing that reads Aerialbot anywhere.

I don't get Hasbro releasing only parts of these combiner groups at a time either I mean Drag strip with two Aerialbots and a possible Protectobot?
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Desslok2201 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:33 am

Cyber Bishop wrote:
I don't get Hasbro releasing only parts of these combiner groups at a time either I mean Drag strip with two Aerialbots and a possible Protectobot?

That part at least makes sense. They don't want to release an entire wave of just jets so you'd see nothing but jets on the pegs, and if you release a few of each at a time, you're stringing it along a while longer, keeping interest in the brand and possibly leading to some impulse buys along the way
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Agamemnon » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:57 am

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william-james88 wrote:
Caelus wrote:So, there was a lot of arguing there about whether figures generally released in Takara's market ever show up as store exclusives in the US, and people saying they felt like they should remember an example, and maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't anyone mention the GDO (Global Development Organization) stuff? Does it not count because they were products released in Asia by Hasbro, rather than Takara?


No they dont. I thought of those. But they dont count exactly for the reason you point out. The whole debate was about Takara released products and GDO simply arent Taara releases. Takara isnt even part of the equation in that one. Masterpiece is the more apt example.

But it doesnt matter because we are getting those 2 toys. That right there shows that the molds were done already, Takara is simply showing them to us first. And there is no need for a specific precedent for something to be true. Takara always had the chrome but suddenly it was the Hasbro jetfire release that had it. During the prime line it was Takara who had the stickers but then the generations figures which came with stickers were hasbro not takara. Things dont need to have a precedent inorder to be true.

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but my previous post might have been missed as it was right at the end of one of the pages (maybe 85? I'll check and edit this post.[edit]End of Page 87) I brought up Henkei Thrust and Dirge as examples that I think most closely match this situation to show that there is precedence...
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Coptur » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:13 am

ZeroWolf wrote:You don't like it? :P

I get what you're saying and I agree. In fact I think these groups should include more extra members to add even more variety.

Best of both worlds as those just wanting the original members can have them and the rest can enjoy the new members. In fact I've decided that slingshot will join my prime team as I've realised that it's possible to make a team of bots that have died and come back to life. Alpha Bravo can enjoy being part of Superion



VERY early morning for me.

I meant I DO like the idea :HEADHURTS: :HEADHURTS:
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby MightyMagnus78 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:33 am

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When is TRU Slingshot being released?
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:35 am

Motto: "'till All Are One"
MightyMagnus78 wrote:When is TRU Slingshot being released?


No news on this yet and we are not even sure it is a TRU exclusive.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Mr O » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:43 am

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[quote="shockblast2"]If you can come up with an example of a Generations, Prime, AOE, or DOTM figure that was released over there and then here as a exclusive, then that would be a good point. quote]

Sorry, I've just noticed this and had to ask, does Guiledart count?
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:44 am

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Back when Hasbro introduced the Power Core Combiners and were trying to justify the existence of "Bombshock w/ Combaticons" and "Skyburst w/ Aerialbots", their line of thinking at the time was that the five (or six, in cases like the Constructicons) original team members were not the only members of those teams, so as to say that while Bombshock and his drones are Combaticons, Hasbro did not want us to look at Bombshock combined with his drone and think "This is Bruticus." They wanted us to treat the originals as simply like one squadron within a greater, larger group of Combaticons, or Aerialbots, or whatever other combiner subgroups Hasbro was willing to add to.

We saw shades of this in ROTF in which Devastator was formed by at least seven Constructicons while many more Constructicons (even of similar body-types to the ones who formed Devastator) fought on the ground simultaneous to Devastator's climbing the pyramid to reveal the Great Machine.

It was later in the Exodus novel that the Aligned continuity's Constructicons were revealed to be HUGE in number. In that iteration, the Constructicons were an entire social class, with High Councilor Drivetrain a their patriarch. Anyone who worked in construction as part of the construction guilds was considered a Constructicon, regardless of whether or not they were among the specific seven (yes, seven) who formed Devastator. This suggests that Bulkhead might have once been considered a Constructicon before the war. But during the war, there were vast swarms of Constructicons; an entire army of them alone destroyed Crystal City. And the Retribution novel would eventually give us the name of the main seven who form Devastator: Scrapper, Mixmaster, Hook, Scavenger, Bonecrusher, Frontloader, and Long (not "Long Haul", just "Long").

The WFC comic (which adapted chapters 12-15 of Exodus) showed us what several of the book-only characters looked like, including the Constructicon patriarch Drivetrain:
Image

And the Covenant of Primus book revealed Devastator:
Image

Also in both the novels and the WFC/FOC video games, an Aerialbot was basically any Autobot who both could fly and had a jet-like altmode. Even Jetfire was considered an Aerialbot (even if he himself did not think so, still regarding himself as a Seeker, but an Autobot one). Same went for the Seekers, who were likewise just flying Decepticons with jet-like altmodes. In fact, according to the novels, all Aerialbots were ex-Seekers who had chosen to side with the Autobots when the time came to picking sides in the war. Jetfire was the only one who actually defected rather than having first gone with the Autobots, though the games seem to have shown him having chosen to remain a neutral for as long as he could before he ultimately chose the Autobots. Though, for the five specific Aerialbots who form Superion, they're all named after their G1 counterparts, even if Fireflight has a similar body-type to Shockwave.

So in a way, with the latest additions of Alpha Bravo and Powerglide to the Aerialbots, Offroad to the Stunticons, and Rook to the Protectobots, Hasbro seems to just be keeping up with this mentality of having a great number of members for each subgroup, whether they're necessary for gestalt combination or not.

Desslok2201 wrote:Also, Alpha Bravo is a stupid name, which glaringly doesn't fit with the rest of the team's names. I mean, you can have the rest of the teams change their names endlessly due to copyrights, and they still seem to fit. And why Alpha Bravo? Why not Charlie Delta or Whiskey X-Ray?
"Alpha Bravo" = "AB" = "Aerialbot" ;)

Cyber Bishop wrote:I don't get Hasbro releasing only parts of these combiner groups at a time either I mean Drag strip with two Aerialbots and a possible Protectobot?
It's to force people who want to play with a complete gestalt ASAP to use the gimmick of interchangeable limbs to make the desired complete gestalt, rather than releasing every member of one team all at once and possibly never having the new gimmick realize its full potential if people only stick to rigid combination structures of "only combine the G1-named member of one team and no one else" rather than letting imagination take over and coming up with crazy combinations of all kinds.

Not to mention was Desslok2201 said about all the sameness on the shelves happening all at once, with nothing jets in one wave, nothing but cars in the next, etc.

Agamemnon wrote:Not to keep beating a dead horse, but my previous post might have been missed as it was right at the end of one of the pages (maybe 85? I'll check and edit this post.[edit]End of Page 87) I brought up Henkei Thrust and Dirge as examples that I think most closely match this situation to show that there is precedence...
Except those are the opposite of the original inquiry, which was about Takara mass retails being sold as exclusives by Hasbro, not Takara exclusives being sold at mass retail by Hasbro.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:47 am

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Mr O wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:If you can come up with an example of a Generations, Prime, AOE, or DOTM figure that was released over there and then here as a exclusive, then that would be a good point. quote]

Sorry, I've just noticed this and had to ask, does Guiledart count?


I guess so, although thats a loooong time ago. If we go that route, there are a bunch of precedents, like Magmatron, Universe Nemesis Prime (mammoth) and on. But I guess we should stick to modern times since back then, Takara was also part of the design process. Since TF Animated and the movies, it's been all Hasbro (however, with Gen Arcee it seems like Takara might have a say in design afterall).
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:47 am

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Mr O wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:If you can come up with an example of a Generations, Prime, AOE, or DOTM figure that was released over there and then here as a exclusive, then that would be a good point.


Sorry, I've just noticed this and had to ask, does Guiledart count?
Guiledart wasn't released by Hasbro as Guiledart. And the first two releases of the mold by Hasbro were mass retail, just like Takara.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby MightyMagnus78 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:48 am

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william-james88 wrote:
MightyMagnus78 wrote:When is TRU Slingshot being released?


No news on this yet and we are not even sure it is a TRU exclusive.


Thanks, so then the only confirmed Slingshot release is part of Takara's gift set in March?
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:49 am

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MightyMagnus78 wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
MightyMagnus78 wrote:When is TRU Slingshot being released?


No news on this yet and we are not even sure it is a TRU exclusive.


Thanks, so then only confirmed Slingshot release is part of Takara's gift set?
Yes, as a remold of Firefly with a new head.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Mr O » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:52 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Mr O wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:If you can come up with an example of a Generations, Prime, AOE, or DOTM figure that was released over there and then here as a exclusive, then that would be a good point.


Sorry, I've just noticed this and had to ask, does Guiledart count?
Guiledart wasn't released by Hasbro as Guiledart. And the first two releases of the mold by Hasbro were mass retail, just like Takara.


Rightio, I needed clarity, you provided it, thanks :D . I'm just trying to figure out what the argument was.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:54 am

Motto: "'till All Are One"
Mr O wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Mr O wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:If you can come up with an example of a Generations, Prime, AOE, or DOTM figure that was released over there and then here as a exclusive, then that would be a good point.


Sorry, I've just noticed this and had to ask, does Guiledart count?
Guiledart wasn't released by Hasbro as Guiledart. And the first two releases of the mold by Hasbro were mass retail, just like Takara.


Rightio, I needed clarity, you provided it, thanks :D . I'm just trying to figure out what the argument was.


Dont, its a dumb argument that tries to insert patterns where there arent any to be made.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:54 am

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
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Mr O wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Mr O wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:If you can come up with an example of a Generations, Prime, AOE, or DOTM figure that was released over there and then here as a exclusive, then that would be a good point.


Sorry, I've just noticed this and had to ask, does Guiledart count?
Guiledart wasn't released by Hasbro as Guiledart. And the first two releases of the mold by Hasbro were mass retail, just like Takara.


Rightio, I needed clarity, you provided it, thanks :D . I'm just trying to figure out what the argument was.
The original argument was "Name one toy of a character that was released by Takara at mass retail but which was instead released by Hasbro as an exclusive."
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:01 am

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
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And Shockblast2, I think I just remembered three examples of Takara mass retail toys that were released by Hasbro as exclusives. In Japan, Takara released Beast Wars Shadow Panther, Beast Wars Second Lio Convoy, and Beast Wars Neo Magmatron all at mass retail. But for Hasbro, the first two were exclusive to Hasbro's website, while Magmatron was a Target exclusive.

If the first two don't count (being straight imports of the Takara ones rather than being part of Hasbro's American Beast Wars line), then Magmatron ought to count, being in official Hasbro American packaging and treated as the same character as Beast Wars Neo Magmatron by its newly-written Hasbro toy bio.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby MightyMagnus78 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:06 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
MightyMagnus78 wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
MightyMagnus78 wrote:When is TRU Slingshot being released?


No news on this yet and we are not even sure it is a TRU exclusive.


Thanks, so then only confirmed Slingshot release is part of Takara's gift set?
Yes, as a remold of Firefly with a new head.


I think Slingshot is cool but not worth importing another Superion from Japan. Really hope he gets a domestic release soon, although I'm happy enough with Alpha Bravo.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Cobotron » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:07 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Cyber Bishop wrote:I don't get Hasbro releasing only parts of these combiner groups at a time either I mean Drag strip with two Aerialbots and a possible Protectobot?
It's to force people who want to play with a complete gestalt ASAP to use the gimmick of interchangeable limbs to make the desired complete gestalt, rather than releasing every member of one team all at once and possibly never having the new gimmick realize its full potential if people only stick to rigid combination structures of "only combine the G1-named member of one team and no one else" rather than letting imagination take over and coming up with crazy combinations of all kinds.

Not to mention was Desslok2201 said about all the sameness on the shelves happening all at once, with nothing jets in one wave, nothing but cars in the next, etc.
Could it also be that they wanted to at least release one Con amongst all these bots?
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby gothsaurus » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:10 am

Slingshot was always the character that stuck out the most... most brash personality, quirky stories (Rolls Royce chest, for instance), and most memorable head design (bright orange with sunglasses.). I'd be surprised if he doesn't make it to the USA eventually. Will definitely pick up the Takara in the mean time.
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Re: Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:11 am

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
Weapon: Saber Blade
gothsaurus wrote:Slingshot was always the character that stuck out the most...
'Course he did. He was a jerk and a bully. :P
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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