The Energon Pub

[Cobotron]

Rickin' frick-a-frack! Thanks to to this auto de-subscribing that keeps happening to me, I'm late to the party again. Looks like there is some serious hair splitting going on in here.

In terms of trying to make heads and tails of all the mold sharing going on. Will makes a good point about all the engineering being really similar. I mean 82.3% of all the deluxes knees work the same. The exceptions being Drag Strip, Breakdown, and Dead End. I don't know about Rook yet. I don't think this qualifies as mold sharing. Ya?

Am I so late to the party that it doesn't even matter what I just said?

[william-james88]

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

Haha, yeah. But we are all friends here, and this is technically something new Hasbro is trying. Was it only 2 years ago that Hasbro showed what they could do in remolds through Sandstorm? I remember people saying "If they are all like that, I dont mind". I think Hasbro took that enthusiasm a bit too much to heart. But then again, as I said, it is really limited what one can do when they have such strict boundaries to adhere to with the combiner limbs. Hence why I find not getting a deluxe Groove so sad. It's not that Hasbro's Defensor isnt as G1 accurate as possible, it's that we are denied a nice mold and instead are stuck with a mold that has just been revealed to have 2 more reshells.

[ZeroWolf]

It's possible that takara might not let them have that mold yet for a reason or so. Seems like there is three main lines of thinking when it comes to these combiners:

1) G1 accuracy. Either in toy accurate or toon accurate flavours as long as the same team members are in the same positions with relatively the same alt modes. Though some deviance is allowed based on the individual collector.

2) Scale. Roughly the same as above but want a bit more realism instead of a bike becoming as big as a helicopter or a police car standing on end. Same as a space shuttle being the same size as a jeep.

3) The indifferent. No matter how many times a mold has been used or if a character has been changed or if it doesn't look very G1, these people just want the toys already. Basically me.

These aren't catch alls mind, apparently as a fandom we can rarely agree on the same thing

[chuckdawg1999]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Yeah, one has to wonder what determines the decisions on some figures.

On the classic teams, one member invariably always gets the short end of the stick (again, Kre-O Combiners) for whatever reason, either being scaled down (Groove), only getting a new head (Quickslinger and Brake-Neck) or being a straight redeco (Blast Off).

Also, vehicle modes. Vortex was an ideal contender for a reshell... You know, now that I think about it that probably would have forced Hasbro to think of a couple more helicopter characters for the reshell to be worth it. Taking inventory, we have:

1 Helicopter Model (Alpha Bravo)
3 Jet Models (Firefly, Air Raid, Skydive)
5 Car Models (Dead End, Streetwise, Breakdown, Wheeljack, Dragstrip)
4 Heavy Vehicle Models (Rook, Swindle, Offroad, First Aid)

Aside from the helicopter, they're all versatile and reusable as we've had plenty of characters with such modes. Much less so for Motorcycles, Helicopters or even Space Shuttles which are more unique. Too restrictive for Hasbro, but not for TakaraTomy it seems.

[Hellscream9999]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

No way, the amount by which they've already used these molds is great enough they most likely could have at least swung for new arms on the a/b mold; it would've changed his design radically without needing to break the bank.

[King Kuuga]

I keep seeing complaints that Vortex wasn't retooled from Alpha Bravo.
Why?
Alpha Bravo was just Vortex in Slingshot's colors. This was extremely apparent from the first time we saw his mold and learned that Combiner Wars would be reusing molds. The mold was created for Vortex initially, given a release as Alpha Bravo to fill a gap on Superion, and then retooled into Blades because hey, a helicopter's a helicopter. If any of the three should have had different tooling beyond the head, it should have been Blades, because what the heck is a rescue helicopter doing with gigantic missiles and guns on him?

[Sabrblade]

Alpha Bravo was just Vortex in Slingshot's colors.

Not even that. He was in Evac's colors. Slingshot's red and white with only orange on his face.

[Nemesis Maximo]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

No way, the amount by which they've already used these molds is great enough they most likely could have at least swung for new arms on the a/b mold; it would've changed his design radically without needing to break the bank.

I bet some of our resident Shapeways modelers could at least change the cockpit secrion of the helicopter to make it more military. like a Blackhawk or (ooh, cool idea) and Apache or something

[Hellscream9999]

I keep seeing complaints that Vortex wasn't retooled from Alpha Bravo.
Why?
Alpha Bravo was just Vortex in Slingshot's colors. This was extremely apparent from the first time we saw his mold and learned that Combiner Wars would be reusing molds. The mold was created for Vortex initially, given a release as Alpha Bravo to fill a gap on Superion, and then retooled into Blades because hey, a helicopter's a helicopter. If any of the three should have had different tooling beyond the head, it should have been Blades, because what the heck is a rescue helicopter doing with gigantic missiles and guns on him?

The problem isn't (to me at least) his over-use, it's the lack of any retooling, apart from the head. All it would've taken, for me at least, would have been new fore-arms - that's it, would've been happy to get them all.

Everyone else got extensive retooling, but are being used less than A/B (with prowl/dead-end being runner-up at this point) brakeneck and quickslinger were technically optional, so thats okay, but these are integral characters, you need blades and vortex; at least make them look different from A/B, as I said, new arms, would've changed the dynamic of the vehicle mode, and the look of the robot mode.

[Hellscream9999]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

No way, the amount by which they've already used these molds is great enough they most likely could have at least swung for new arms on the a/b mold; it would've changed his design radically without needing to break the bank.

I bet some of our resident Shapeways modelers could at least change the cockpit secrion of the helicopter to make it more military. like a Blackhawk or (ooh, cool idea) and Apache or something

Indeed, A/B seems the simplest to retool, which is especially irritating, new arms, and new cockpit shells - that are on BALL JOINTS - no pin/whole leg removal needed

[Thadicon]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

No way, the amount by which they've already used these molds is great enough they most likely could have at least swung for new arms on the a/b mold; it would've changed his design radically without needing to break the bank.

I bet some of our resident Shapeways modelers could at least change the cockpit secrion of the helicopter to make it more military. like a Blackhawk or (ooh, cool idea) and Apache or something

Indeed, A/B seems the simplest to retool, which is especially irritating, new arms, and new cockpit shells - that are on BALL JOINTS - no pin/whole leg removal needed

Or a Hind gunship that would be cool. I am liking the Blackhawk idea

[Hellscream9999]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

No way, the amount by which they've already used these molds is great enough they most likely could have at least swung for new arms on the a/b mold; it would've changed his design radically without needing to break the bank.

I bet some of our resident Shapeways modelers could at least change the cockpit secrion of the helicopter to make it more military. like a Blackhawk or (ooh, cool idea) and Apache or something

Indeed, A/B seems the simplest to retool, which is especially irritating, new arms, and new cockpit shells - that are on BALL JOINTS - no pin/whole leg removal needed

Or a Hind gunship that would be cool. I am liking the Blackhawk idea

There you go, paint it blue, give it 6 prop blades and call it movieverse Blackout (oh and make sure he can use it as an arm weapon too), I would be so down for that (it would at least get us some more Decepticons, as they are woefully outmatched - 1 team, 2 torso's this year, 1 team, 1 torso, so far, next year - assuming victorion and computron are in the pipeline for retail release)

[william-james88]

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

Well, the real problem here is Alpha Bravo. Not because its a bad toy (it isn't at all) but he was Vortex from the very begining and we all predicted it. What kind of sucks is that since he came first, many went for him to finish a stateside superion. And now that we finally have the true purpose of that mold, it is very lackluster. Not the toy itself, but the fact that we all already have and know the exact mold.

And not to brag about my foresight or patience (I guess more the later since we all had the same foresight) but when I saw that everyone said he would be vortex one day I just skipped him and bought Takara's Superion (will be released next week finally). So I will never own the alpha bravo mold and have a vortex for my Bruticus (probably also Takara since I have my doubts on them keeping this Blastoff). It's kind of sad though since at least Rook seems to have a specific headsculpt that will probably not be reused. They should have done that for alpha bravo instead of just repainting vortex and releasing him before.

All I meat to say is that Vortex is perfect the way he is and we shouldn't hate him for that. Instead I believe Hasbro is to blame for not making Alpha Bravo anymore original. And I am sorry to say that I am glad I never bought him.

[Thadicon]

These have yet to receive a twin:

1.) Alpha Bravo
2.) Firefly
3.) Dragstrip
4.) Brawl
5.) Sky Lynx

The main technique used to make figures in Combiner Wars is switching out major parts while keeping the basic transformation intact. That's what I based these pairs on: transformation first, and parts second.

Those recieved way worse though. 2 of those got just straight up redecos and the first three also got some new heads. I though a new head was considered a retool, no?

Yeah, I need to get into the habit of saying "reshell" more, which is what the twins all are.

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

No way, the amount by which they've already used these molds is great enough they most likely could have at least swung for new arms on the a/b mold; it would've changed his design radically without needing to break the bank.

I bet some of our resident Shapeways modelers could at least change the cockpit secrion of the helicopter to make it more military. like a Blackhawk or (ooh, cool idea) and Apache or something

Indeed, A/B seems the simplest to retool, which is especially irritating, new arms, and new cockpit shells - that are on BALL JOINTS - no pin/whole leg removal needed

Or a Hind gunship that would be cool. I am liking the Blackhawk idea

There you go, paint it blue, give it 6 prop blades and call it movieverse Blackout (oh and make sure he can use it as an arm weapon too), I would be so down for that (it would at least get us some more Decepticons, as they are woefully outmatched - 1 team, 2 torso's this year, 1 team, 1 torso, so far, next year - assuming victorion and computron are in the pipeline for retail release)

You are giving me ideas . I might have to go pick up an Alpha Bravo and measure up the front section.

That always happens to many Bots and not enough Cons.

[shajaki]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

[william-james88]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

[Burn]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

dude ... seriously ...

[Hellscream9999]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

dude ... seriously ...

Technically speaking, he's not wrong

[Nemesis Maximo]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

dude ... seriously ...

Technically speaking, he's not wrong

*crush*. Aieeeeeeeee!

[Hellscream9999]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

dude ... seriously ...

Technically speaking, he's not wrong

*crush*. Aieeeeeeeee!

dem visuals tho

[fenrir72]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

dude ... seriously ...

Technically speaking, he's not wrong

*crush*. Aieeeeeeeee!

dem visuals tho

Didn't she have those silicon/saline implants removed already?

[Zeedust]

Alpha Bravo was just Vortex in Slingshot's colors.

Not even that. He was in Evac's colors. Slingshot's red and white with only orange on his face.

Evac is yellow, though.

He's closest to Rescue Bots Blades.

[Burn]

If these quotes get any bigger boys, they'll crush us all.

Like Pamela Anderson's B BS

dude ... seriously ...

Technically speaking, he's not wrong

*crush*. Aieeeeeeeee!

dem visuals tho

Didn't she have those silicon/saline implants removed already?

Okay, let me rephrase things.

This line of conversation ENDS NOW!

[Sabrblade]

Alpha Bravo was just Vortex in Slingshot's colors.

Not even that. He was in Evac's colors. Slingshot's red and white with only orange on his face.

Evac is yellow, though.

He's closest to Rescue Bots Blades.

Was thinking of Movieverse Evac.