The Energon Pub

[King Kuuga]

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

Well, the real problem here is Alpha Bravo. Not because its a bad toy (it isn't at all) but he was Vortex from the very begining and we all predicted it. What kind of sucks is that since he came first, many went for him to finish a stateside superion. And now that we finally have the true purpose of that mold, it is very lackluster. Not the toy itself, but the fact that we all already have and know the exact mold.

...
It's kind of sad though since at least Rook seems to have a specific headsculpt that will probably not be reused. They should have done that for alpha bravo instead of just repainting vortex and releasing him before.

All I meat to say is that Vortex is perfect the way he is and we shouldn't hate him for that. Instead I believe Hasbro is to blame for not making Alpha Bravo anymore original. And I am sorry to say that I am glad I never bought him.

This, I can agree with. Alpha Bravo at least needed a new head. He was obviously Vortex all along, but he was released first and consequently a lot of the dislike of Vortex is directed at the straight reuse of the AB mold, even if it was designed to be Vortex first and foremost. I think if Blades had nixed the forearm missiles and AB had a different head, people might be a little more satisfied with this Vortex.

[ZeroWolf]

Question: was it ever confirmed that Alpha Bravo was meant for Vortex? Seems to me that they laid everything out a realised a helicopter mold would be useful indeed since they needed one for both Vortex and Blades, AB got added to superior to get extra use and subsequently, made first. Maybe even as a way to see what people thought of the mold.

We could always hope that Vortex gets a bit more work between now and release and that we just got shown prototypes. Otherwise I'm fine with getting Alpha Bravos mold brothers

[ThunderThruster]

That makes sense hence why I said if Brawl wasn't a retool the it at least has to be Buck Brothers with Rook. Personally I would've liked it better if Brawl was a retool as well allowing money to be spent on adjusting the molds of Vortex and Blast Off.

Well, the real problem here is Alpha Bravo. Not because its a bad toy (it isn't at all) but he was Vortex from the very begining and we all predicted it. What kind of sucks is that since he came first, many went for him to finish a stateside superion. And now that we finally have the true purpose of that mold, it is very lackluster. Not the toy itself, but the fact that we all already have and know the exact mold.

...
It's kind of sad though since at least Rook seems to have a specific headsculpt that will probably not be reused. They should have done that for alpha bravo instead of just repainting vortex and releasing him before.

All I meat to say is that Vortex is perfect the way he is and we shouldn't hate him for that. Instead I believe Hasbro is to blame for not making Alpha Bravo anymore original. And I am sorry to say that I am glad I never bought him.

This, I can agree with. Alpha Bravo at least needed a new head. He was obviously Vortex all along, but he was released first and consequently a lot of the dislike of Vortex is directed at the straight reuse of the AB mold, even if it was designed to be Vortex first and foremost. I think if Blades had nixed the forearm missiles and AB had a different head, people might be a little more satisfied with this Vortex.

Agreed on the whole account. AB, as has been said, is Vortex in autobot colours, and the lack of new or modded parts to differentiate him further from Vortex and Blade is why some have a certain animosity towards him.

[King Kuuga]

Question: was it ever confirmed that Alpha Bravo was meant for Vortex? Seems to me that they laid everything out a realised a helicopter mold would be useful indeed since they needed one for both Vortex and Blades, AB got added to superior to get extra use and subsequently, made first. Maybe even as a way to see what people thought of the mold.

It's never been stated officially but it was fairly obvious that Alpha Bravo was just Vortex masquerading as an Autobot. Most obviously was the head, and the legs becoming the cockpit of the chopper are a notable part as well, especially since G1 Blades's cockpit folds behind his head instead. They presumably made use of the mold as an Aerialbot because it fit the theme of flyers and they wanted to break up the monotony of having four deluxe jets on shelves at once.

[ZeroWolf]

Buts that's just it, I never saw him as autobot vortex just Alpha Bravo. Though I wonder what those not overly familiar with Vortex (or G1) saw in AB.

[william-james88]

Buts that's just it, I never saw him as autobot vortex just Alpha Bravo. Though I wonder what those not overly familiar with Vortex (or G1) saw in AB.

I am assuming they saw the 4th limb to their superion and a fun new helicopter transforming toy.

[ZeroWolf]

Buts that's just it, I never saw him as autobot vortex just Alpha Bravo. Though I wonder what those not overly familiar with Vortex (or G1) saw in AB.

I am assuming they saw the 4th limb to their superion and a fun new helicopter transforming toy.

Then would it of been so hard for us to have seen him like that?

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Buts that's just it, I never saw him as autobot vortex just Alpha Bravo. Though I wonder what those not overly familiar with Vortex (or G1) saw in AB.

I am assuming they saw the 4th limb to their superion and a fun new helicopter transforming toy.

Then would it of been so hard for us to have seen him like that?

Nostalgia trumps common sense. Every. Single. Time.

[william-james88]

Buts that's just it, I never saw him as autobot vortex just Alpha Bravo. Though I wonder what those not overly familiar with Vortex (or G1) saw in AB.

I am assuming they saw the 4th limb to their superion and a fun new helicopter transforming toy.

Then would it of been so hard for us to have seen him like that?

It wasnt and many did see him like this, or else there would have been even interest in him as those platinum astrotrain and blitzwing releases.

But now that it is "confirmed" that this was intended as another character all along it does leave a sour taste in the mouth. Either from those casual fans who bought the fun helicopter only to be forced to buy that same helicopter in a different deco just to finish another combiner or for the hardcore fans who would have really like AB to be less obviously sculpted as an autobot Vortex from the beginning.

[william-james88]

Buts that's just it, I never saw him as autobot vortex just Alpha Bravo. Though I wonder what those not overly familiar with Vortex (or G1) saw in AB.

I am assuming they saw the 4th limb to their superion and a fun new helicopter transforming toy.

Then would it of been so hard for us to have seen him like that?

Nostalgia trumps common sense. Every. Single. Time.

I wouldnt say that. The design of Movie Starscream is based on common sense rather than nostalgia. He is made on the larger side to accommodate for how bigger a jet is than a plane and for him to keep a similar height as the rest. And for a while, I thought it made for crappy toys. BUT that HFTD Leader happened and I saw how much sense it made for him to look like this and how it could be perfectly implemented as a toy. I do not prefer him to G1 but I don't think it's a lesser interpretation in terms of design. And when it comes to toys, the best Leader sized Starscream out there in terms of design and engineering is HFTD Leader Starscream, not the MP. And it seems the entire community as a whole agrees with that.

Also, few seem to mind that CW Motormaster is a cab and not an entire trailer, which is definitely common sense trumping nostalgia. Actually now that I think of it, I should have opened with that example instead, it's definitely better.

I was gonna use the minimus ambus example too but that isnt really about making sense, just a display of a more recent interpretation replacing a more nostalgic one.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

What I meant was that it would be indeed common sense to see Alpha Bravo as the fourth member, or even as a legit expansion. But no, nostalgia dictates it has to be Slingshot, and nobody else.

[peaces]

good point. a lot of g1 was retarded. so g1'ers act retarded when the new versions are made not retarded.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Got my Cyclonus today. I have to say: He is an amazing figure. Yes, he is a Silverbolt skeleton, but they made it work so well! I love the guy!

His jet mode looks amazing. It works so well for me. And he is a beautiful shade of purple. Me likes a lot.

He makes a great addition to the Lost Light crew. He looks and feels just so good. And he feels a good size to me too. I feel that deluxe version (which I never got) just looks too gappy and small, so this guy tickles my fancy perfectly.

I highly recommend this guy. /

[william-james88]

What I meant was that it would be indeed common sense to see Alpha Bravo as the fourth member, or even as a legit expansion. But no, nostalgia dictates it has to be Slingshot, and nobody else.

I believe if they wanted to give us a new character, they could have done a more sincere job. I am all for new characters but half assed attempts are a pet peeve. While that deluxe groove mold is cool, Hasbro did go all out on their vision of a new hotspot, made with rook, which has a totally unique face sculpt (crossing fingers) and a groove of it's own. That really doesnt seem half assed to me. They could have done something cool with Alpha Bravo, by giving him some distinctive sculpting, that could have made him more unique and worth collecting. But no, he's a vortex repaint and thats all he is and who wants that when there is a perfectly good slingshot available at online retail? Slingshot was carefully designed to represent his G1 self and there is nice merit to that. Same for Vortex. Alpha Bravo shows no indication of that whatsoever. Hasbro has shown no care in the toy to make him worth my time or money so why should I consider him an actual member? Especially since, like I said, the actual member is available.

[KarateCode]

Hi all! I thought I'd introduce myself, since it's my first time posting. I've been lurking awhile, but wanted to join in the conversation. I grew up in the 80's with G1 and it will forever hold a certain nostalgic place in my heart. I got into the IDW comics and 3P tranformers 3 years back. I could afford a figure only once every 3 months since they're so expensive though. I made the happy accident of picking up a CW Silverbolt on a whim back in January and experienced the sheer awesomeness of CW Superion! I subsequently vowed to buy everything in the CW line (excepting Leader class stuff). The awesome part about returning the Hasbro products is I can get a whole combiner (around $90) for less than a single limb bot for most of the 3P products (around $100). My collection is growing like never before and I echo the sentiment that a lot of you have said, "This is a great time to be a transformer fan."

So, on to the topic at hand: Everyone seems awfully upset about the extensive reuse of the AB/vortex/Blades mold. I'm wagering that the two Victorian choppers will be retools, hopefully heavy retools. I've read that Victorian will only be able to use her gravity super powers when the helicopters are in arm mode. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro even builds in some new hinge that allows the blades to flip forward in arm mode to look more like a weapon.

[Spanbauer]

So..Hasbro announced about 25 new figures last weekend and only about 3 new molds, yeah? Did they consider renaming this line to Repaint Wars?

[william-james88]

So..Hasbro announced about 25 new figures last weekend and only about 3 new molds, yeah? Did they consider renaming this line to Repaint Wars?

Depends, do you consider reshells and new heads as new molds? Because most are retools, I think the only true redecos are Smokscreen (?), Vortex, Pipes, the two Leader Seekers and Blastoff.

If you mean fully new original molds then it's just Skylynx, Buzzsaw, Shockwave and Brawl.

[ZeroWolf]

See, I still see AB as himself, and I hope some capable writers give him a chance to shine in the comics as he deserves it. Plus in all fact, AB came first so Vortex is just a cheap repaint, I can understand why people may be frustrated with Hasbro but things are what they are, but we have no idea what was going on throughout their design, what demands they faced from above etc.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

See, I still see AB as himself, and I hope some capable writers give him a chance to shine in the comics as he deserves it. Plus in all fact, AB came first so Vortex is just a cheap repaint, I can understand why people may be frustrated with Hasbro but things are what they are, but we have no idea what was going on throughout their design, what demands they faced from above etc.

I agree with you. I don't fully understand decisions made, but I work with them. Think about it: when they did all those combiners in the 80's, the limbs were essentially tiny guys with 3 step transformations. Now they are trying to do combiners with deluxes that require fair articulation and can hold 4 very functional modes. The chest area needs to be very similar due to the combiner peg: everything else is a shell that can change. I can understand many repaints since there are so many different styles of heads yet so many look like one another. I like AB, and do not mind so many uses of the mold since it is a good mold. I do hope Victorians are retooled more than the head, it would look good. And it is early on in is existence, and he was involved in a rushed story with little personal focus, so over time these new guys can be flushed out more.

[william-james88]

See, I still see AB as himself, and I hope some capable writers give him a chance to shine in the comics as he deserves it. Plus in all fact, AB came first so Vortex is just a cheap repaint, I can understand why people may be frustrated with Hasbro but things are what they are, but we have no idea what was going on throughout their design, what demands they faced from above etc.

This I can totally get by and highly encourage. Like with Rewind. He was just a "cassette clone" for years but some smart writers have turned him into an awesome character. Same with Tailgate and Swerve who were G1 redecos at first.

Any character can have great potential under a good writer and if he does become present in the comics and gets a following, you can bet the readers will be more pleased to have him.

[peaces]

every single alpha bravo has been sold in my area. people must really hate him huh?

[Spanbauer]

So..Hasbro announced about 25 new figures last weekend and only about 3 new molds, yeah? Did they consider renaming this line to Repaint Wars?

Depends, do you consider reshells and new heads as new molds? Because most are retools, I think the only true redecos are Smokscreen (?), Vortex, Pipes, the two Leader Seekers and Blastoff.

If you mean fully new original molds then it's just Skylynx, Buzzsaw, Shockwave and Brawl.

Right. So four, not three

[D-Maximal_Primal]

So..Hasbro announced about 25 new figures last weekend and only about 3 new molds, yeah? Did they consider renaming this line to Repaint Wars?

Don't forget though: a lot of the figures are reshells, and there are many a figures who are just slight tweeks of other guys already in existence. Heck, the seekers, Prowl, Blue, Smoke they are all the same figure with different paint, so repaints are ok. They have done a good job reshelling too. The transformation does not match up with every transformer using the system, but it is working in head and alt mode design.
Besides, it is pretty cool that so many characters are getting updates or other characters who would not normally combine are. it makes things interesting. I bet there are kids out there who would love to stick Hound on a combiner. it would be fun. If we get all the combiners redone (Which I think non-beast wise we will) it will be a very successful 2 years.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

See, I still see AB as himself, and I hope some capable writers give him a chance to shine in the comics as he deserves it. Plus in all fact, AB came first so Vortex is just a cheap repaint, I can understand why people may be frustrated with Hasbro but things are what they are, but we have no idea what was going on throughout their design, what demands they faced from above etc.

This I can totally get by and highly encourage. Like with Rewind. He was just a "cassette clone" for years but some smart writers have turned him into an awesome character. Same with Tailgate and Swerve who were G1 redecos at first.

Any character can have great potential under a good writer and if he does become present in the comics and gets a following, you can bet the readers will be more pleased to have him.

when you look at it, it can be kinda funny. Swerve and Tailgate were redecoes, yet when they got new toys, it was the likes of Gears and Windcharger that are now the redecoes

[ZeroWolf]

Plus Rook may of gotten a better deal with the unique body and head but he's still a blank canvas as he's yet to appear in the comics properly