The Energon Pub

I don't really have an opinion on the idea of a boxset for Menasor, but if it's the only way to get the G2 colors, I'm in Also, didn't one of the designers say there are no plans to release a box set of Stunticons?

Sentinel_Primal wrote:I don't really have an opinion on the idea of a boxset for Menasor, but if it's the only way to get the G2 colors, I'm in Also, didn't one of the designers say there are no plans to release a box set of Stunticons?

It was said that a box set is possible, but that's all. Nothing definite either way.

AcademyofDrX wrote:We don't have to invent a target market and then filter all product options through that idealized end. In the last few years Hasbro has released, and continues to release, a couple dozen products at $150 or more. They may be retailer or online exclusives, and there's only a handful each year, but there's enough of a market that they keep making them. Lego releases more than a dozen sets at that price point annually, including sets in their lines that target children. Usually those top out at $150, with $170 and higher marketed primarily to adults.

I'm not debating if Generations is for kids or adults anymore, as that misses the point: the products target both markets. What I still argue about is whether adults (and rich parents, I guess) buy enough high-priced toys to make them profitable. Based on the continued sale of these toys from Hasbro, Lego, and other toy companies, there's an obvious answer: yes.

(As an aside, we're likely headed into a period of slowing economic activity, and more expensive optional purchases tend to suffer in that environment. So things could change in the near future, but for right now, I don't think there's any debate .)

No one's trying to invent a target market.
Show me the list of a couple dozen mainline, mass retailed TF figures from the last 3 years, each being originally priced at $150-$200.
Were there even a handful (5-7) of exclusive (and non-MP) figures that cost $150+ in the last 3 years?
That number/cost, $200, was an important part of my point.
Based on what I actually said, no, Hastak hasn't done such releases dozens of times in the past, so it's an assumption about how any sales involving a $200 price tag are going to pan-out. There isn't an obvious 'yes'.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:We don't have to invent a target market and then filter all product options through that idealized end. In the last few years Hasbro has released, and continues to release, a couple dozen products at $150 or more. They may be retailer or online exclusives, and there's only a handful each year, but there's enough of a market that they keep making them. Lego releases more than a dozen sets at that price point annually, including sets in their lines that target children. Usually those top out at $150, with $170 and higher marketed primarily to adults.

I'm not debating if Generations is for kids or adults anymore, as that misses the point: the products target both markets. What I still argue about is whether adults (and rich parents, I guess) buy enough high-priced toys to make them profitable. Based on the continued sale of these toys from Hasbro, Lego, and other toy companies, there's an obvious answer: yes.

(As an aside, we're likely headed into a period of slowing economic activity, and more expensive optional purchases tend to suffer in that environment. So things could change in the near future, but for right now, I don't think there's any debate .)

No one's trying to invent a target market.
Show me the list of a couple dozen mainline, mass retailed TF figures from the last 3 years, each being originally priced at $150-$200.
Were there even a handful (5-7) of exclusive (and non-MP) figures that cost $150+ in the last 3 years?
That number/cost, $200, was an important part of my point.
Based on what I actually said, no, Hastak hasn't done such releases dozens of times in the past, so it's an assumption about how any sales involving a $200 price tag are going to pan-out. There isn't an obvious 'yes'.

I was a couple replies deep so I missed some of the finer points like emphasizing mass retail late in the post, and if you're excluding Masterpiece and Haslab, then the number of more expensive Transformers drops. Rereading your post, reading mine, and your reply, there's probably more agreement between us than not, we're just emphasizing different things.

The broader point I'm making including Lego is, "will kids or parents buy this" is not the definitive question in whether a toy company puts something out. That's why we have a $170 Optimus Prime Lego set and $300+ Hasbro lightsabers. Will we get a $200 Menasor set? Are there enough adult collectors and rich parents to mean that will be at Target? I can't speak to that, maybe not, maybe even probably not, so I'm not really rebutting that point. I just think the "will kids buy this" mindset is increasingly outdated, and while it's still a big part of the equation, it's not the only important value.

AcademyofDrX wrote:I was a couple replies deep so I missed some of the finer points like emphasizing mass retail late in the post, and if you're excluding Masterpiece and Haslab, then the number of more expensive Transformers drops. Rereading your post, reading mine, and your reply, there's probably more agreement between us than not, we're just emphasizing different things.

The broader point I'm making including Lego is, "will kids or parents buy this" is not the definitive question in whether a toy company puts something out. That's why we have a $170 Optimus Prime Lego set and $300+ Hasbro lightsabers. Will we get a $200 Menasor set? Are there enough adult collectors and rich parents to mean that will be at Target? I can't speak to that, maybe not, maybe even probably not, so I'm not really rebutting that point. I just think the "will kids buy this" mindset is increasingly outdated, and while it's still a big part of the equation, it's not the only important value.

Yeah, I don't mind that you brought up Lego, however, there are probably some major differences...
The number of series/themes for Lego far outweighs the TF offerings... And going a step further, that includes product across all types... Books, clothing, accessories, movies, etc...
I point this out because you know this probably 1,000x more than me, that Lego is huge.
So they have more wiggle room when it comes to releasing a $170 AT-AT set.
Or even in the realm of those Expert/Ideas sets... Those can get super pricy... But for that company as a whole, between x number of Mini-figure series, $10, $20, $30, $40, $50, so on and so on price options of sets, it may be fair to say that Lego is in a different league...
Whereas 1 Titan class release within the realm of TF is much

Seems like Hastak does focus on kids... Now, we completely agree (as far as I remember) that Hastak caters to collectors and fans more than they'll ever admit...
But yeah, I get and agree with your first point of your last post... While I think it's prioritized to at least some higher degree, "will kids and/or parents buy this" may not be the main motivation for choosing to release specific products.

Sowndwave76 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:I was a couple replies deep so I missed some of the finer points like emphasizing mass retail late in the post, and if you're excluding Masterpiece and Haslab, then the number of more expensive Transformers drops. Rereading your post, reading mine, and your reply, there's probably more agreement between us than not, we're just emphasizing different things.

The broader point I'm making including Lego is, "will kids or parents buy this" is not the definitive question in whether a toy company puts something out. That's why we have a $170 Optimus Prime Lego set and $300+ Hasbro lightsabers. Will we get a $200 Menasor set? Are there enough adult collectors and rich parents to mean that will be at Target? I can't speak to that, maybe not, maybe even probably not, so I'm not really rebutting that point. I just think the "will kids buy this" mindset is increasingly outdated, and while it's still a big part of the equation, it's not the only important value.

Yeah, I don't mind that you brought up Lego, however, there are probably some major differences...
The number of series/themes for Lego far outweighs the TF offerings... And going a step further, that includes product across all types... Books, clothing, accessories, movies, etc...
I point this out because you know this probably 1,000x more than me, that Lego is huge.
So they have more wiggle room when it comes to releasing a $170 AT-AT set.
Or even in the realm of those Expert/Ideas sets... Those can get super pricy... But for that company as a whole, between x number of Mini-figure series, $10, $20, $30, $40, $50, so on and so on price options of sets, it may be fair to say that Lego is in a different league...
Whereas 1 Titan class release within the realm of TF is much

Seems like Hastak does focus on kids... Now, we completely agree (as far as I remember) that Hastak caters to collectors and fans more than they'll ever admit...
But yeah, I get and agree with your first point of your last post... While I think it's prioritized to at least some higher degree, "will kids and/or parents buy this" may not be the main motivation for choosing to release specific products.

I think comparing transformers toys to lego products is like comparing apples to oranges. Lego is a system, not an individual toy. It's like comparing Transformers to a video game release or a subscription to Netflix for your kids.

Transformers isn't this and will never be that. Let's compare them to action figures and playsets instead.

I'm not even sure what the point being discussed is.

ZeroWolf wrote:I'm not even sure what the point being discussed is.

Such is the nature of Internet debates.

william-james88 wrote:I think comparing transformers toys to lego products is like comparing apples to oranges. Lego is a system, not an individual toy. It's like comparing Transformers to a video game release or a subscription to Netflix for your kids.

Transformers isn't this and will never be that. Let's compare them to action figures and playsets instead.

I think there are similar trends with Star Wars merch from Hasbro, but there again, the size of that fandom is huge, so there are going to be some ways that the comparison breaks down. I'm trying to take a macro view, rather than compare apples and oranges, talk about fruit sales, but then all anyone wants to talk about is apples. Which is fine, I'm the one making the case, I've got to figure out how to effectively manage it.

Part of why I keep taking the broad view is that I think a lot of what's happening outside the brand is probably the direction the brand is headed. That's a conclusion with a bunch of assumptions baked in, though, so others may reject those assumptions and have a completely different perspective.

I think a Menasor box set is viable, and might be available next year sometime if it would happen. I don't see why it couldn't be, especially since SS Devastator proved you can pack them all together in a nice boxset that is high in price but proportional to the individual releases

Having bought SS69 and so many Select / UW box sets, a Legacy box set is not only possible but more likely than anyone think.

But isn't the only reason we got the SS box set because the Constructicons were released over such a long time that it made some figures harder to find for latecomers? And even then they added some sand decos to change it up slightly. I don't think Drag Strip will be particularly hard to get at the end of the year making a straight box set pointless. At best I could see a G2 set, but that's it.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:But isn't the only reason we got the SS box set because the Constructicons were released over such a long time that it made some figures harder to find for latecomers? And even then they added some sand decos to change it up slightly. I don't think Drag Strip will be particularly hard to get at the end of the year making a straight box set pointless. At best I could see a G2 set, but that's it.

Emerje

I never said that the set will be "this year". But down the line it's more than likely. It could also be a Takara initiative for all we know.

Still, I'm not taking any chances and will be buying the toys as they come out.

@AcademyofDrX— I appreciate your insights & your perspective. At first I didn’t quite get why you brought Lego to the table, but do now.
Hastak is going to need to do something with TF beyond expanding into other series outside of G1…
Pretty sure that will be after I’ve made my outro from collecting.

I think if Legacy Menasor does get a boxed set release, it will be an exclusive, & possibly a G2 redeco.
I do think Hastak is going to want more $$$ from these Stunticon molds, & while it maybe easier with the 4 limb figures, that’s not at all the case with Motormaster due to his trailer.
However, I do predict this will break $200…
Reminds me of the Pulse exclusive Terrorcons set.
I loved the look, but couldn’t get myself to spend that much.

Are you all ready for Legacy Wave 2? While preorders are set for the fall, odds are we will see them at retail in the summer. To tide us over, we have the best look at these yet. Chefatron made several review videos comparing the new figures to their older counterparts. The juxtaposition between Wildrider and "Brakeneck" is pretty wild when you realize the Combiner Wars version didn't even have a separate part for the feet. The comparison between the two Knockouts is pretty interesting too since neither look like the actual character model from Prime.

We also have more images of Wildrider from Takara themselves which show him transforming.

william-james88 wrote:The juxtaposition between Wildrider and "Brakeneck"

Where?

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:The juxtaposition between Wildrider and "Brakeneck"

Where?

Sorry, forgot to include it



Thanks for pointing it out.

That Elita is still a huge swing and a miss, IMO. She's too short in robot mode, the vehicle mode looks like a clown car, and her headsculpt is just off-putting. She should have been a tall deluxe like Siege Ironhide is, the vehicle mode could have been accommodated. And I didn't care much for the PoTP voyager, but at least it had a better looking head.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I didn't care much for the PoTP voyager, but at least it had a better looking head.

Yeah, to me, the POTP Voyager is still the best-looking of the the Elita-1 figures released so far. She may not be a car anymore, but at least she looks the part the most in robot mode (and was given in-fiction justification as a body upgrade).

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I didn't care much for the PoTP voyager, but at least it had a better looking head.

Yeah, to me, the POTP Voyager is still the best-looking of the the Elita-1 figures released so far. She may not be a car anymore, but at least she looks the part the most in robot mode (and was given in-fiction justification as a body upgrade).

Exactly. I think the jet mode kinda turned me off the figure, because it was a repaint and it made her too bulky as well, even if, as you said, the fiction justification was there. If she had had some kind of larger car mode, and perhaps hadn't been a combiner, she would be in my collection. But I understand why she was done that way.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I didn't care much for the PoTP voyager, but at least it had a better looking head.

Yeah, to me, the POTP Voyager is still the best-looking of the the Elita-1 figures released so far. She may not be a car anymore, but at least she looks the part the most in robot mode (and was given in-fiction justification as a body upgrade).

Exactly. I think the jet mode kinda turned me off the figure, because it was a repaint and it made her too bulky as well, even if, as you said, the fiction justification was there. If she had had some kind of larger car mode, and perhaps hadn't been a combiner, she would be in my collection. But I understand why she was done that way.

Personally, I think she wears the mold better than who it was made for. The Starscream version is very lousy.

Cartoon accurate or not, I find the little hat on top of Elita-1's vehicle mode hilarious.

Also, if I can ignore that this Knock-Out is supposed to be a Prime character, he's not so bad. I didn't expect a SS-86 Jazz retool though. I wonder if this one will have the same fragility issues?

After finally having played with Kingdom Legacy Blaster, I was completely impressed. It is truly deserving of the title "mini masterpiece". The bot is perfect with no hollow parts aside the wrists. The boom box mode have a CLEAN BACK. The transformation is about the same as the G1 original just with some extra steps. Plus the engineering is so simple, I can see why they were able to include a cassette guy in the box.

One of the best Transformers this year!

Rodimus Prime wrote:That Elita is still a huge swing and a miss, IMO. She's too short in robot mode, the vehicle mode looks like a clown car, and her headsculpt is just off-putting. She should have been a tall deluxe like Siege Ironhide is, the vehicle mode could have been accommodated. And I didn't care much for the PoTP voyager, but at least it had a better looking head.

i'm just glade they got rid of that hover board. i was hyped for her WFC toy until i saw that blasted hover board.

I like the new Elita-1, not entirely cartoon accurate but I'm not sure how they would pull that off. She does however get a decent balance of bulk and maintaining a femminine appearance, keeping closer to "superhero proportions" than PoTP while not being a shellformer like Netflix.

Not fond of or interested in the Prime Universe figures as I believe they should have kept to the original designs. Knockout dosnt change that view at all.

Really hyped for Wildrider as he is my fave Stunticon, Figure looks great.