And even then, there's the notion that ROTB Unicron was technically from the future, suggesting he eventually gets out of the Earth in some later era.bluecatcinema wrote:Slashercon wrote:bluecatcinema wrote:I have no problem with this. Considering the mess the original series became near the end, the chance to overlook some of it is welcome.
I do have a problem with this considering the same mistakes that began to plague the original series will begin to fester in the new series. Playing loose and fast with continuity is why a good number of fans get disinterested with Ips like Star Wars, The MCU, The DCEU, and even as recent as Rise of the Beasts. And considering that ROTB isn't doing too well at the Box Office, this does not bode well for the future films. When you tell the audience that you don't care, they shouldn't be surprised when audiences show that they don't care.
The only continuity point that has been altered is the whole "Unicron is Earth" thing at the end of TLK. All things considered, not that big a loss...
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
AcademyofDrX wrote:Continuity is for nerds. Either the story works, or it doesn't, and continuity doesn't have anything to do with it.
Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.cloudballoon wrote:The ideas coming out of the Writer's Room are bad not because Bay used them, but due to Bay cramming as much of the ideas into his movies as possible like there's no tomorrow.
Yeah, the usage of Unicron in this movie kind of feels like a case where Caple simply let his inner fanboy do the talking instead of his director mindset.cloudballoon wrote:Caple Jr. *might* have a bit of that tendency too. As during one interview he was like "I want Unicorn on the big screen!" without making the case for it. I felt the theatrical release left out a whole lot of plot & character developments on the cutting floor. That's a sign of Caple Jr./script wrtiter taking in far more than one can chew for a movie.
From this interview, it sounds like Caple is a fan of the first and third Bay movies, so is okay with not contradicting those, but would rather ignore AOE and TLK. Which, in a sense, is also an opinion held by a lot of us here in the fandom (preferring Movie 1 and DOTM over AOE and TLK, I mean).cloudballoon wrote:Also, what's the case for WHY continuity is NOT important in a franchise (unless you're rebooting)?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.
Sabrblade wrote:Yeah, the usage of Unicron in this movie kind of feels like a case where Caple simply let his inner fanboy do the talking instead of his director mindset.
Sabrblade wrote:It sounds like Caple is a fan of the first and third Bay movies, so is okay with not contradicting those, but would rather ignore AOE and TLK. Which, in a sense, is also an opinion held by a lot of us here in the fandom (preferring Movie 1 and DOTM over AOE and TLK, I mean).
william-james88 wrote:Well, for those wanting a real answer, Steven Caple Jr has one: Continuity in this franchise DOES NOT MATTER.Interviewer: In terms of the continuity of the franchise, are you worried about matching it up with the first Bay film, which suggests that Optimus has never been to earth before…
Caple Jr: … But now it’s kinda broken already. For me, I’m not like fully worried about it.
What you just read is the new official take on the matter of continuity: that it does not matter.
cloudballoon wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.
That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
I mean, it's happened before. Like when Warner Bros. made Superman Returns a sequel to Superman 1 and 2, but chose to ignore Superman 3, 4, and Supergirl (in other words, the "bad" Superman movies of the time).cloudballoon wrote:As fans, WE can forget/ignore AOE and TLK. But as director/producer/IP holder, that's not the right approach to make a new continuity IMO. Caple Jr. can reveal plot points & character backgrounds in his new timeline that are exactly the same as some Bay ones (that he likes), but shoot it your own way. Can't just go and pick and choose some stuff from 5 Bay movies and discard the rest. It's way more confusing than just start over. Besides, Caple Jr. is just limiting himself with character selections too.
Oh, he definitely knew, and had to be a fool not to know. The filming of that scene stirred up some massive controversy long before the movie itself saw release. There were news stories and articles about the filming of that WWII scene in which locals were disgusted and outraged by the presence of those banners on that building, with Bay giving responses to the complaints in said news reports in order to justify his decisions about that scene. He knew exactly what he was doing.First-Aid wrote:cloudballoon wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.
That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.
I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote: had to be a fool not to know.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
Yeah, in those articles, he argued that the final presentation of the scene would honor the Allies and make Churchill proud.First-Aid wrote:Sabrblade wrote: had to be a fool not to know.
Well, it IS Michael Bay so...
My suspicion is he didn't know before the fact, only learning about the controversy after the scenes were shown, OR he didn't think it would be a big deal. He kind of lives in his own little world, like he majority of Hollywood.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Yeah, in those articles, he argued that the final presentation of the scene would honor the Allies and make Churchill proud.First-Aid wrote:Sabrblade wrote: had to be a fool not to know.
Well, it IS Michael Bay so...
My suspicion is he didn't know before the fact, only learning about the controversy after the scenes were shown, OR he didn't think it would be a big deal. He kind of lives in his own little world, like he majority of Hollywood.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
First-Aid wrote:cloudballoon wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.
That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.
I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate. Probably saw a picture of the place that was presented by a staff member and said, "that one works". I think you're giving him too much credit and spewing hate in a direction where it probably isn't warranted because of ignorance. Think of his "Smithsonian" scenes going into the aircraft graveyard in New Mexico, the Art Museum in Milwaukee being in NOT Milwaukee, etc. If he sees something he likes, I doubt he even gets as far as "what building is this" as opposed to "will I get good camera angles and will kilotons of exposives look cool here?"
cloudballoon wrote:First-Aid wrote:cloudballoon wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Not only that, but how Bay executed those ideas was flippin' nuts, too. The man didn't have to put Nazi banners on Winston Churchill's estate in order to film the WWII scene. He chose that location to put them on.
That's an "It's OK to sh*t on BOTH allies & enemy" kind of American militarism/faux-patriotism/ignorance. Zero sensitivity.
I doubt there was that much thought in it. My suspicion is he simply liked the look of it, the availability of his favorite camera angles, and wasn't even aware it was Churchill's estate. Probably saw a picture of the place that was presented by a staff member and said, "that one works". I think you're giving him too much credit and spewing hate in a direction where it probably isn't warranted because of ignorance. Think of his "Smithsonian" scenes going into the aircraft graveyard in New Mexico, the Art Museum in Milwaukee being in NOT Milwaukee, etc. If he sees something he likes, I doubt he even gets as far as "what building is this" as opposed to "will I get good camera angles and will kilotons of exposives look cool here?"
So... just arrogance then?
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
Tyrannacon wrote:I'd also venture that the whole writing quality tanked due to both creative differences with Bay and them and the writer strike at that time for both RotF and DOTM.
I admit, my assertions are based solely on assumption and probably not what actually happened. To me, however, this is just what I thought transpired or why the sudden tonal shift and lack of care regarding story cohesion.
AcademyofDrX wrote:Tyrannacon wrote:I'd also venture that the whole writing quality tanked due to both creative differences with Bay and them and the writer strike at that time for both RotF and DOTM.
I admit, my assertions are based solely on assumption and probably not what actually happened. To me, however, this is just what I thought transpired or why the sudden tonal shift and lack of care regarding story cohesion.
The writer's strike taught the producers they could make almost a billion dollars practically without a script. Is it any wonder that none of the core movies have had good writing?
Except, Orci and Kurtzman didn't write a single episode of TF: Prime. They instead were that show's producers, alongside Jeff Kline and Duane Capizzi.Tyrannacon wrote:Just want to point out that I believe, it's been said not directly but implied, that Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman probably departed from writing anything for the film series after RotF. Their ideas seemed to carry directly over to Transformers Prime, where I recalled reading in an interview with them, they were able to finally get to more connected storytelling. I really feel Bay is a lot of the reason they saw themselves out of the production as they knew he was more focused on lens flare and big explosions. It's sort of why RotF ended up so half-assed in the writing department because both Orci and Kurtzman got replaced due to the writer's strike at that time too. I feel like they used it as a convenient door to jump fully on board to work on Transformers Prime to put all of their ideas and notes to use in another area altogether since Bay was probably difficult to work with for them based on how uncreative he is with his approach.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
IIRC, the two of them oversaw the story of the five-part series opener (even if they didn't write it), but little else after that.Tyrannacon wrote:Yeah, I was wondering if they had any writing credits for the series despite being producers and just completely assumed they had played some part in the writing of episodes. I stand corrected, thanks for pointing that out I really appreciate it. Also, I do wonder how much influence they had on the show's direction and progression over the three seasons.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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