The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:

Randomus wrote:Looking at the two, there's just too many similarities for Chromedome to have not started from Dead End (or Streetwise), but probably not past the CAD stage. It looks like every singe piece is different, even the wheels and fists, to say nothing of the parts and joints needed for the new feet, canopy, and torso modifications.

Do we call this a retool? Do we come up with a new term (e.g. "total retool")? Is it all just semantics anyway? After all, from Springer/Sandstorm to now, we've seen a spectrum that throws the 3-step "New mold-retool-redeco" model out the window.

Like I said, it's basically the same case that G2 Smokescreen, Energon Starscream, and FOC Starscream were. Different molds using similar engineering to get the same basic transformation across the board.

Other cases like this would be:

• The G1 Bumblebee, G1 Cliffjumper, and G1 Bumper molds
• The G1 Runabout and G1 Runamuck molds,
• The Alternators Smokescreen and Alternators Meister molds
• The Energon Sledge/Bonecrusher and Cybertron Hardtop molds
• The Prime Cyberverse Legion Knock Out and Prime Beast Hunters Cyberverse Legion Smokescreen molds
• The DOTM Deluxe Roadbuster and AOE Deluxe Lockdown molds

I think you guys are trying to say the same. I think they use the exact same transformation scheme but only one or two parts are the same.
1. The knees to the waist are the same.
2. The combiner peg takes up a lot of space so having a hollow space there but having a solid connection between the shoulders would probably increase mold stability. The dead end mold is almost completely hollow from the stomach to the back/canopy.
3. The chromedome mold has the door panel stop at the wrist rather than halfway down the forearm. This means that the feet can take the space where the lower forearms would go.
4. With no more need for a combiner peg or a head, there is more than enough room for the master to fit in vehicle mode under the canopy.

By my count there are 17 shared parts (4 are wheels). Crotch, hips, knees, clavicles, and the parts connecting the front end to the back.

For the whole Chromedome/Dead End thing, I'm kinda in the middle. While it is apparent that parts are shared between the two, it was said that the TR deluxes are larger than CW, which means that this is most likely a case of DOTM Roadbuster, TTR Evac, and AOE Lockdown, where the base transformation is shared.

Stuartmaximus wrote:seems kinda half @$$ed! the toyfair! granted that we got a lot of goodies on display! but it could've been ever better had Alpha Trion, Astrotrain, Brainstorm ect been there!

They gotta save the rest for later toy events in the year you know like how every other year has been.

the headmaster gimmick is neat and all, but it is funny as the actual head robots are exactly the same as the ones from the 80's. in this day and age I think we could've gotten a little more articulation.

Stuartmaximus wrote:seems kinda half @$$ed! the toyfair! granted that we got a lot of goodies on display! but it could've been ever better had Alpha Trion, Astrotrain, Brainstorm ect been there!

You need to keep some Q4 stuff for Botcon, especially with this being the last one.

Crosscheck wrote: I also love that Cerebros transforms into a tower like the G1 toy.

He does? Where was that shown at this toy fair, you have a pic of his tower mode?

Crosscheck wrote: It also looks like he interacts with the leader class figures to make an even bigger city mode. I should be able to have a pretty good sized Autobot City for Devastator to rampage through when this is all said and done.

We are still not sure of this. The box shows that the leader bases connect to his space ship mode, not his city mode:

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:What is your source? His arms and transformation (with the front end of the car on his back) really make it seem like he is based on the same design as Dead End. There was a decade between G2 smokescreen and energon Starscream while in this case, the Dead End mold is still being used for this year's releases.

For one, there's literally no identical parts shared between Dead End and Chromedome.
(snip)

The most similarities the two molds have are similar altmode kibble protrusions on the shoulders (which themselves are shaped quite differently between the two molds), similar forward-positioned elbow joints, similar joints in general (which are found on many figures), and similar transformation schemes.

Thats not a source that just your opinion based on what you qualify as a retool. Here's what I qualify as a retool, them using the same base mold, which they totally do. Everything about this toy is based on the same precise cuts and parts to make him work like Dead End. What kills me is that forearm design , with the same curvature and design with just a difference in mold detailing. But deep down it's the same ****. We'll have the proof when its in hand and we'll see everything is the same size and proportion (unlike every example you propose which is more inspiration/coincidence). This is the same **** as the one steps and Dark Crumplezone. Using different detailing on what is the same base mold, basing itself on the exact same design.


Transformers Cybertron Dark Crumplezone (Arm Bullet) Gallery

This, PMOP, Fort Max, Chromia, Dark Crumplezone, CW Streetwise and First Aid, its all retools to me. As far as I see it, they could have started from scratch to give Chromedome his own mold, but they based it all off Dead End's, to the exact angles of curvature for inner design.

VioMeTriX wrote:the headmaster gimmick is neat and all, but it is funny as the actual head robots are exactly the same as the ones from the 80's. in this day and age I think we could've gotten a little more articulation.

Only thing I can think of that they could of done was make the legs separate and not combined.


These headmasters are smaller then the original ones from the 80's so less likely to get articulation.


Plus is you give them to much articulation your going to end up with a crappy head.

william-james88 wrote:We are saying pretty much the same thing about the Fort Max sword, mainly that the version that comes with the sword will be limited in number compared to the version that doesnt come with the sowrd.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all. Going by the fact sheet, which has been accurate so far, the mass retail version that'll be available to everyone will come with the exclusive sword, whatever other version Hasbro makes, be it for SDCC or whatever, wont have the sword. Exclusive isn't the same as limited.

Of course we've seen a number of changes from "Titan Wars" to Toy Fair 2016 so they may have dropped that. No weapons at all except for on his knees would really suck.

BTW, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Titans Return being bumped from a summer release to fall. With CW on its last wave I wonder how they intend to fill the gap? I know some people were expecting TR to start hitting shelves as early as April or May based on the summer release, but with fall it could be more like August. Most of the first wave of TR figures on display look to be finished with no hand painting so I guess it's just a matter of waiting for supply to build?

Stuartmaximus wrote:seems kinda half @$$ed! the toyfair! granted that we got a lot of goodies on display! but it could've been ever better had Alpha Trion, Astrotrain, Brainstorm ect been there!

Toy Fair is more about showing off concepts to other professionals in the industry and products that are basically ready for the shelves. It's completely closed to the public, the only outsiders allowed in are the media. Notice the lack of glass display cases? It's not about revealing fan favorite characters to get a big reaction, they save that for BotCon in the spring, SDCC in the summer, and NYCC in the fall. Therefore Toy Fair in recent years has been about showing things we knew for sure were in the works while the other conventions are for showing things we've only heard rumor of and some surprises.

Emerje

william-james88 wrote:

Stuartmaximus wrote:seems kinda half @$$ed! the toyfair! granted that we got a lot of goodies on display! but it could've been ever better had Alpha Trion, Astrotrain, Brainstorm ect been there!

You need to keep some Q4 stuff for Botcon, especially with this being the last one.

Crosscheck wrote: I also love that Cerebros transforms into a tower like the G1 toy.

He does? Where was that shown at this toy fair, you have a pic of his tower mode?

Crosscheck wrote: It also looks like he interacts with the leader class figures to make an even bigger city mode. I should be able to have a pretty good sized Autobot City for Devastator to rampage through when this is all said and done.

We are still not sure of this. The box shows that the leader bases connect to his space ship mode, not his city mode:

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:What is your source? His arms and transformation (with the front end of the car on his back) really make it seem like he is based on the same design as Dead End. There was a decade between G2 smokescreen and energon Starscream while in this case, the Dead End mold is still being used for this year's releases.

For one, there's literally no identical parts shared between Dead End and Chromedome.
(snip)

The most similarities the two molds have are similar altmode kibble protrusions on the shoulders (which themselves are shaped quite differently between the two molds), similar forward-positioned elbow joints, similar joints in general (which are found on many figures), and similar transformation schemes.

Thats not a source that just your opinion based on what you qualify as a retool. Here's what I qualify as a retool, them using the same base mold, which they totally do. Everything about this toy is based on the same precise cuts and parts to make him work like Dead End. What kills me is that forearm design , with the same curvature and design with just a difference in mold detailing. But deep down it's the same SHIZZLESNIT. We'll have the proof when its in hand and we'll see everything is the same size and proportion (unlike every example you propose which is more inspiration/coincidence). This is the same SHIZZLESNIT as the one steps and Dark Crumplezone. Using different detailing on what is the same base mold, basing itself on the exact same design.


Transformers Cybertron Dark Crumplezone (Arm Bullet) Gallery

This, PMOP, Fort Max, Chromia, Dark Crumplezone, CW Streetwise and First Aid, its all retools to me. As far as I see it, they could have started from scratch to give Chromedome his own mold, but they based it all off Dead End's, to the exact angles of curvature for inner design.

Will, you can see cerebros in Tower mode in that picture of the back of fort maxs box, you can even see cerebros hands clearly.

hurrah page 100

still dunno who this Shizzlesnit character is

maybe he's like Kremzeek

First...

william-james88 wrote:

Crosscheck wrote: I also love that Cerebros transforms into a tower like the G1 toy.

He does? Where was that shown at this toy fair, you have a pic of his tower mode?

...And then...

william-james88 wrote:

...In the same post. Classic.

Also I don't think they mean the base modes literally connect to his ship mode, it was just a convenient way to show both modes on the box. There's really no way for them to interact and just above that image it even says "form Cybertron City" which makes connecting to the city mode make a lot more sense.

Emerje

The transmissions podcast source explicitly said that Chromedome is his own mold, he's not a retool. They share engineering but that's simply because there's only so many ways you can make a robot turn into a car. So no matter what your personal definition of a retool is it's irrelevant, he's a new mold.

steals_your_goats wrote:The transmissions podcast source explicitly said that Chromedome is his own mold, he's not a retool. They share engineering but that's simply because there's only so many ways you can make a robot turn into a car. So no matter what your personal definition of a retool is it's irrelevant, he's a new mold.

Plus Hasbro has stated time and time again that it's easier to start from scratch than to remold an existing figure to that level. Many of the "extensive remolds" we've seen with new heads and parts were planned that way from the beginning (like Combiner Wars). In other instances they swap out a set of molds for a new set to get a new look while still using some existing parts (like TR MP Optimus Prime). But what they don't do is a take an existing mold and start adding and removing 100% of the parts to make something completely new, that's too expensive so they start from scratch using something existing as a blueprint to make the engineering quicker.

Emerje

VioMeTriX wrote:the headmaster gimmick is neat and all, but it is funny as the actual head robots are exactly the same as the ones from the 80's. in this day and age I think we could've gotten a little more articulation.

There is more articulation, the arms are balljointed like last year's Minimus Ambus.

Emerje wrote:

william-james88 wrote:We are saying pretty much the same thing about the Fort Max sword, mainly that the version that comes with the sword will be limited in number compared to the version that doesnt come with the sowrd.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all. Going by the fact sheet, which has been accurate so far, the mass retail version that'll be available to everyone will come with the exclusive sword, whatever other version Hasbro makes, be it for SDCC or whatever, wont have the sword. Exclusive isn't the same as limited.

Of course we've seen a number of changes from "Titan Wars" to Toy Fair 2016 so they may have dropped that. No weapons at all except for on his knees would really suck.

BTW, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Titans Return being bumped from a summer release to fall. With CW on its last wave I wonder how they intend to fill the gap? I know some people were expecting TR to start hitting shelves as early as April or May based on the summer release, but with fall it could be more like August. Most of the first wave of TR figures on display look to be finished with no hand painting so I guess it's just a matter of waiting for supply to build?

Oh, well then we are. I am sticking to my guns though. The pic you are referring to says that there are 9000 units of Fort max worldwide (with only 3000 in the states) and that is far too small for a retail release. So I am sticking to the theory that the sword will not be available at retail and will only come with an exclusive version of Fort max that will also be limited in release.

Also, since the reveal at New York last year, Hasbro always said fall 2016. But when Hasbro gives a date, its the date where they know people can find it in store and thus the date of saturation. Just like saying that the Bruticus wave is first quarter 2016. What they really mean by fall is 3rd quarter 2016, which is the equivalent of last year's Defensor wave. Nothing has changed from last year. We have 4 waves of Generations figures. One for each quarter. Like with Defensor, we will probably start having some TR in stores in the summer and saturation reached by the end of summer, leading into the fall. With the second wave of TR coming in Q4. Its the same as last year, just choose how you wish to space out the 4 waves and what you count and stay consistent and you'll get your answer.

Emerje wrote:
...In the same post. Classic.

No need to laugh at me. I am not accustomed the G1 Fort Max or these characters and their functions. I didnt know that was cerebros up there, thats pretty cool. it not being obvious to me means they did a good job integrating him well within the base.

I thank the community for having shown me where he was in the picture.

Maybe we should call the design and method by which Dead End and Chromedome transform, the "John Warden".

william-james88 wrote:

Emerje wrote:
...In the same post. Classic.

No need to laugh at me. I am not accustomed the G1 Fort Max or these characters and their functions. I didnt know that was cerebros up there, thats pretty cool. it not being obvious to me means they did a good job integrating him well within the base.

I thank the community for having shown me where he was in the pick.

On the original, cerebros turned into a different tower to help fill out the city mode.

OHHHHH so the Autobot base modes are compatible with Fort Max? Awesome!!!

SillySpringer wrote:OHHHHH so the Autobot base modes are compatible with Fort Max? Awesome!!!

well Blaster & Soundwave are! i dunno about Powermaster Prime?

Stuartmaximus wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:OHHHHH so the Autobot base modes are compatible with Fort Max? Awesome!!!

well Blaster & Soundwave are! i dunno about Powermaster Prime?

Hope so!

Stuartmaximus wrote:

SillySpringer wrote:OHHHHH so the Autobot base modes are compatible with Fort Max? Awesome!!!

well Blaster & Soundwave are! i dunno about Powermaster Prime?

All leader class bases will be able to connect, wouldn't make sense to leave some out of the party

oh & btw who moved my class size comment off of here? coz it did have some Titan Wars related info within the comment! + whoever moved it.....it doesn't really belong on the Combiner Wars thread either!

I'm assuming the G1 headmasters won't be compatible with these new versions? Did Hasbro happen to confirm or deny that?

It does look like some of the 3rd party HM offerings may be able to work with these. That's pretty cool.
I wonder if Hasbro will release some version of Gasket & Grommet to go with Fort Max? An updated version of those two that combine would be really cool.

Also, #teamWill

Doctor McGrath wrote:I'm assuming the G1 headmasters won't be compatible with these new versions? Did Hasbro happen to confirm or deny that?

It does look like some of the 3rd party HM offerings may be able to work with these. That's pretty cool.
I wonder if Hasbro will release some version of Gasket & Grommet to go with Fort Max? An updated version of those two that combine would be really cool.

Also, #teamWill

well i was half expecting a Scamper repaint as Cog! seeing as they're using the Metroplex mold for Fort Max

Stuartmaximus wrote:

Doctor McGrath wrote:I'm assuming the G1 headmasters won't be compatible with these new versions? Did Hasbro happen to confirm or deny that?

It does look like some of the 3rd party HM offerings may be able to work with these. That's pretty cool.
I wonder if Hasbro will release some version of Gasket & Grommet to go with Fort Max? An updated version of those two that combine would be really cool.

Also, #teamWill

well i was half expecting a Scamper repaint as Cog! seeing as they're using the Metroplex mold for Fort Max

I think people need to shut up about Fort Max being a remold of Metroplex. I personally think it it's a similar case to Titans Return Cromedome, it's so different we can't exactly call it a remold. I own Generations Metrookex, and I can personally say for experience that Fortress Maximus Appears very different from Metroplex. It seem only part of the lower legs, the forearms, and the ramps on Fort Max's arms (which are on Metroplex's legs, BTW) are shared between the two of them. That's what makes me think it's same situation as Cromedome.

DigitalBrave3 wrote:

Stuartmaximus wrote:

Doctor McGrath wrote:I'm assuming the G1 headmasters won't be compatible with these new versions? Did Hasbro happen to confirm or deny that?

It does look like some of the 3rd party HM offerings may be able to work with these. That's pretty cool.
I wonder if Hasbro will release some version of Gasket & Grommet to go with Fort Max? An updated version of those two that combine would be really cool.

Also, #teamWill

well i was half expecting a Scamper repaint as Cog! seeing as they're using the Metroplex mold for Fort Max

I think people need to shut up about Fort Max being a remold of Metroplex. I personally think it it's a similar case to Titans Return Cromedome, it's so different we can't exactly call it a remold. I own Generations Metrookex, and I can personally say for experience that Fortress Maximus Appears very different from Metroplex. It seem only part of the lower legs, the forearms, and the ramps are shared between the two of them. That's what makes me think it's same situation as Cromedome.

Not really the same thing. Fort max is undoubtedly a remold of Metroplex, there's no denying that. Chromedome simply shares engineering with Deadend and THAT'S IT. If anything needs to be dropped it's the Chromedome Deadend thing.