The Energon Pub

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Cynically, I'd agree. But with Star Convoy and Super Megatron, we've reached the end of the line for both of them, as far as G1 depictions. That said, I would be impressed if HasTak/Warden reached the same conclusion. As such, they would go all out to make the best and most impressive Rodimus Prime and Galvatron they could.

They aren't really likely to lose either trademark but omitting them from one third of a toyline.

[aronjlove]

Is this a trilogy of toys to support the media, much like the previous trilogy, or is a trilogy media to support the toys. To me, the Prime Wars trilogy was a chance to make some awesome figures of characters that are back in people's minds thanks to the IDW comics. That's why we got so many IDW favorites in IDW colors and looks. Or at least that was for Combiner Ways and Titans Return. Power of the Primes went off on its own. I'm just saying, if these toys are to support the media then I doubt we would see a mainline figure that is not in the cartoon. Selects is a whole different beast and anything goes there. But for the mainline, it should be straight forward. Especially since this is a love letter to G1 and in the beginning of G1, most of the figures were those in the show.

[william-james88]

Is this a trilogy of toys to support the media, much like the previous trilogy, or is a trilogy media to support the toys. To me, the Prime Wars trilogy was a chance to make some awesome figures of characters that are back in people's minds thanks to the IDW comics. That's why we got so many IDW favorites in IDW colors and looks. Or at least that was for Combiner Ways and Titans Return. Power of the Primes went off on its own. I'm just saying, if these toys are to support the media then I doubt we would see a mainline figure that is not in the cartoon. Selects is a whole different beast and anything goes there. But for the mainline, it should be straight forward. Especially since this is a love letter to G1 and in the beginning of G1, most of the figures were those in the show.

The toys are the main attraction and end game, as it usually is with TF cartoons.

[Skritz]

At the risk of repeating myself: Siege wasn't the problem and Earthrise was only kind of the problem. We're getting fairly 'definitive' versions of these characters outside of Masterpiece. The problem is Hasbro is currently 'stuck' in an era and mentality where its 'brand identity', meaning those recognisable '80 designs, are what keeps it afloat and what they hold to be important to the brand. It is, in their minds, what define Transformers. Meaning you need a red and blue classic-looking Optimus every year and a gray Megatron with a bucket helmet and a fusion canon. Maybe a Starscream who is a grey/red/blue jet and a Bumblebee, all preferably in the very geometric and recognisable style of the 1984 cartoon.

That's fine right now. Problem is, what is thing going to do next line? Or next Trilogy? This is where the fandom and the general consumer clash. Hasbro want, nay need those recognisable designs. To a long term fan, these things can be 'skipped'. However Hasbro want those brand-related icons to constantly be available should either an old fan return to collecting or a kid want those characters. We are at an impass and so is Hasbro. In the 2000, as long as it what a red and blue truck with the iconic mouthplate it was good enough to be an Optimus Prime toy. Now that's not good enough. It has to be the 1984-style G1 Optimus. It's the toy that sell. Or something.

The problem is in recent years Hasbro has not only run out of old Optimus toys to redo and their design team will not take the risk to invent a completely new design. That's the problem with this brand: it's stagnating, or in a position where the 'evergreen'/classic/CHUG stuff is going to stagnate.

To me this is perfectly embodied from the transition of the TF Prime era to today. TF Prime was very classic-looking while having its own unique visual flair. However, if you look at TF Prime, then Rid 2015 to Cyberverse each time things get more and more GEEWUN. Hell, even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

[blackeyedprime]

I'm kinda hoping for a selects or netflix earthrise prime with out the (lackluster) trailer and a better paint job/chest windows. If earth rise megatrons anything to go by, third part optimus might just be earth rise prime with sieges legs to hide the wheels in bot mode.

G2 hero sure shot/optimus and the car robots style optimus that was in armadas opening episode would be nice though probably impossible on that one.

[Jeddostotle7]

I'm kinda hoping for a selects or netflix earthrise prime with out the (lackluster) trailer and a better paint job/chest windows. If earth rise megatrons anything to go by, third part optimus might just be earth rise prime with sieges legs to hide the wheels in bot mode.

G2 hero sure shot/optimus and the car robots style optimus that was in armadas opening episode would be nice though probably impossible on that one.

They can't do Earthrise Optimus without the trailer, because it's part of the same mold as the figure itself. They can't block off the trailer part of the mold.

[Rtron]

At the risk of repeating myself: Siege wasn't the problem and Earthrise was only kind of the problem. We're getting fairly 'definitive' versions of these characters outside of Masterpiece. The problem is Hasbro is currently 'stuck' in an era and mentality where its 'brand identity', meaning those recognisable '80 designs, are what keeps it afloat and what they hold to be important to the brand. It is, in their minds, what define Transformers. Meaning you need a red and blue classic-looking Optimus every year and a gray Megatron with a bucket helmet and a fusion canon. Maybe a Starscream who is a grey/red/blue jet and a Bumblebee, all preferably in the very geometric and recognisable style of the 1984 cartoon.

That's fine right now. Problem is, what is thing going to do next line? Or next Trilogy? This is where the fandom and the general consumer clash. Hasbro want, nay need those recognisable designs. To a long term fan, these things can be 'skipped'. However Hasbro want those brand-related icons to constantly be available should either an old fan return to collecting or a kid want those characters. We are at an impass and so is Hasbro. In the 2000, as long as it what a red and blue truck with the iconic mouthplate it was good enough to be an Optimus Prime toy. Now that's not good enough. It has to be the 1984-style G1 Optimus. It's the toy that sell. Or something.

The problem is in recent years Hasbro has not only run out of old Optimus toys to redo and their design team will not take the risk to invent a completely new design. That's the problem with this brand: it's stagnating, or in a position where the 'evergreen'/classic/CHUG stuff is going to stagnate.

To me this is perfectly embodied from the transition of the TF Prime era to today. TF Prime was very classic-looking while having its own unique visual flair. However, if you look at TF Prime, then Rid 2015 to Cyberverse each time things get more and more GEEWUN. Hell, even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

I couldn't agree more with this. Generations needs to actually become GenerationS, plural, at this point, and the Transformers brand as a whole needs another Beast Wars/2007 Bayformers shift in style. This is not meant as a knock on the current toys (WFC & Studio Series), because they are AWESOME when it comes to design and engineering in my opinion. But the 80's well is running dry, style/characters wise.

[Skritz]

Hasbro will wear itself and the designers out if they keep trying to do a Voyager-scaled, G1 truck mode Optimus. I understand each line need an Optimus and a Megatron with recognisable elements but why not have them try new things or revisit old things like Fire Convoy or Stealth Bomber Megatron?

Or how about a line where all the 'legacy/classic' (meaning '84 guys and the famous movie-era, like Hot Rod) have different altmode (and happen to be pretools of someone else?). How about a missile truck Megatron? A Rodimus fire truck that's a Pyro pretool? There are work around.

[Microbot]

For me is really great to have modern and updated version of G1 toys, and I want more of that, To be honest, I want all Dinobts again, for example, in g1 style and molds but with WFC update articulations and possibility. But also, I understand who wants something different like Starsaber or Prime toyline ( I like that style to btw) and I think we will get after this trilogy. But For now, I really hope they continue to make G1 movie/series character ( sO Dinobots too) and maybe more Commander Class and maybe some new titans or old Metroplex/Fortress make it again but updated with this WFC scale and joint. IMO.

[Skritz]

I've already given my two cents during POTP on why I think Dinobots were done as Deluxes in that line beyond mere Terrorcon retooling. Dinobots are big, requiring to be at least Voyager sized and even that would barely satisfy fans. The issue here is that each toyline only has the space for a limited amount of Voyagers and filling all the waves with fairly similar looking toys of similar color scheme at the Voyager and Leader price point...seems like a bad idea.

Whereas at Deluxe its more doable because there are more of other figures to break out the glut. At best they would need to 'space them out' across a new trilogy over the Voyager and Leader price point.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Or how about a line where all the 'legacy/classic' (meaning '84 guys and the famous movie-era, like Hot Rod) have different altmode (and happen to be pretools of someone else?). How about a missile truck Megatron? A Rodimus fire truck that's a Pyro pretool? There are work around.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but...:


Concept for Return of Convoy but dropped, reused for the Brave cousin line as Duke Fire. Google it

[Skritz]

Why do you think I wrote that one in? Was waiting to see who would point it out.

[Sentinel_Primal]

Or how about a line where all the 'legacy/classic' (meaning '84 guys and the famous movie-era, like Hot Rod) have different altmode (and happen to be pretools of someone else?). How about a missile truck Megatron? A Rodimus fire truck that's a Pyro pretool? There are work around.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but...:


Concept for Return of Convoy but dropped, reused for the Brave cousin line as Duke Fire. Google it

I think this could be cool retool/repaint of Grapple in Selects. (Mostly cause I saw a Digibash from @machtackle on Twitter)

[Deadput]

To me this is perfectly embodied from the transition of the TF Prime era to today. TF Prime was very classic-looking while having its own unique visual flair. However, if you look at TF Prime, then Rid 2015 to Cyberverse each time things get more and more GEEWUN. Hell, even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

This is why they should of gotten it "right" back then, if the movies started off with more G1 for familiarity while easing into more original concepts with time we could of moved on and done something else by now or better yet have two separate sets of media existing at the same time something for G1 fans while having something more original for refreshment.

The reason for all the G1 type stuff in the recent years was because of the non-successes of several of the more "daring" ideas which has scared Hasbro back into doing safe options to recoup losses.

[Skritz]

Btw this is the last G1 Optimus design that hasn't been remade, unless one count Action Master Optimus Prime.

[Sabrblade]

To me this is perfectly embodied from the transition of the TF Prime era to today. TF Prime was very classic-looking while having its own unique visual flair. However, if you look at TF Prime, then Rid 2015 to Cyberverse each time things get more and more GEEWUN. Hell, even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

This is why they should of gotten it "right" back then, if the movies started off with more G1 for familiarity while easing into more original concepts with time we could of moved on and done something else by now or better yet have two separate sets of media existing at the same time something for G1 fans while having something more original for refreshment.

The reason for all the G1 type stuff in the recent years was because of the non-successes of several of the more "daring" ideas which has scared Hasbro back into doing safe options to recoup losses.

It may also have to do with the fact that Archer's team from 2014 and back and Warden's team from 2014-Present had very different mindsets. Archer's team was all about trying new things and not "going backwards" with the brand, while Warden's team is all about the G1 nostalgia and brand recognition.

Archer's team went more for diversity and a non-standard identity for the brand (until they tried and failed to make one via the Aligned media) while Warden's team strives more for consistency and a more uniform brand identity.

[Skritz]

Yeah and Warden is also a **** nugget who think Beast Wars isn't relevant to G1.

[Deadput]

It may also have to do with the fact that Archer's team from 2014 and back and Warden's team from 2014-Present had very different mindsets. Archer's team was all about trying new things and not "going backwards" with the brand, while Warden's team is all about the G1 nostalgia and brand recognition.

Archer's team went more for diversity and a non-standard identity for the brand (until they tried and failed to make one via the Aligned media) while Warden's team strives more for consistency and a more uniform brand identity.

Yeah this is true as well, different points of view for deciding how the brand goes of course.

Just a lot of different things happened.

[Skritz]

On the flipside we can generally expect each line to have 2-3, maybe more 'weirdoes' or more obscure and unusual late G1 oddities. Like how Siege had Flywheels/Skythread, Spinister and Apeface. Its not all doom and gloom for people like me who like weirder characters, as later Earthrise waves are definitely my jam.

[Sabrblade]

I kind of feel like we have to look at the bigger picture.

Before Beast Wars, "Transformers" meant one thing and one thing only: What we now refer to today as "G1". G2 tried to recapture and spirit and make something new out of it, but failed so hard that the brand almost died.

Beast Wars saved the brand by completely reinventing the wheel, making it so far unlike what G1 was, but which was for the better since that's what the brand needed at the time in the late 90s.

From Beast Machines to Cybertron, the brand was from then on in a constant state of reinvention, redefining itself every 1-2 years so as to keep the creative juices flowing and prevent any line from overstaying their welcome in case any of them didn't do so well. But, at the same time, it also created a sort of identity crisis for the brand since, during this time, "Transformers" was no longer any definite thing anymore, now it was a monster of ever-changed identity. Optimus Prime and Megatron never stayed the same for very long, creating a series of inconsistency across the board for what it meant to be the characters in terms of aesthetics and appearance. And with G1 nostalgia resurfacing during this time, that also competed with the Unicron Trilogy's ever-changing identity for the brand.

Then, come 2007 and the first live action movie is such a smash hit that the movies become the new face of the brand, showing the first signs of a new wave of brand recognition. For the first time since the 80s, "Transformers" finally means something in a specific and obvious meaning. But at the same time, Animated pops up for the 25th anniversary with its unadulterated visual homages to G1 and a few other past series. While the movies continued to make money and placed at the forefront of the brand, Animated fights for its place too, along with some more G1 nostalgia creeping into the comics and Universe toyline following the surprise success of the Classics filler line from 2006.

Finally recognizing that a state of consistency would be beneficial to the brand, Archer's team devises a plan to streamline the brand, creating the Aligned continuity, hewing very closely to the live action movies while also mixing in elements of the then-still-popular Animated and then-still-relevent IDW1 comics, as well as also mixing in stuff from G1 and other past series. However, none of the mainstream licensees really get behind the idea and want to keep doing their own things each, so the Aligned continuity tried but ultimately failed to become the consistent face of the brand that it was intended to be.

Come 2014 and Archer's team is replaced by Warden's team. They keep the Aligned cartoons going somewhat with RID 2015 and the rest of Rescue Bots, but the live action movies finally tank with TLK's box office failure. Thus, a new reinvention is brought about. Warden's team tries again at creating a sense of brand consistency like Archer's team tried with the Aligned media, but unlike that attempt, Warden's team instead opts go for a tactic of "evergreen" designs that lean more into G1 than into the movies. The G1-heavy Bumblebee movie is a reasonable success, Cyberverse is created and slowly (very slowly) wins over fans with its mix of G1/evergreen-based looks and Aligned-based lore plus some actual new ideas that turn out to be pretty cool and fun. And the Generations line evolves into a more consistently G1 line that better reflects what the brand is now, bringing us full circle to Earthrise.

In a way, thanks to the efforts of Warden's team, the Transformers brand has finally achieved what it never did under Archer's team: A sense of consistency and stable brand recognition similar to the likes of Batman, Superman, Star Wars, and Marvel.

[Skritz]

That may be good and all from a brand standpoint but it basically forever relegate most things outside of G1 to basically be in the past, an anomaly or even a 'deviation' from what is now deemed to be the OneTrueVersion.

[Sabrblade]

That may be good and all from a brand standpoint but it basically forever relegate most things outside of G1 to basically be in the past, an anomaly or even a 'deviation' from what is now deemed to be the OneTrueVersion.

Yep, it's a double-edged sword. Either we get brand inconsistency with a messy identity that always gives us new stuff and the occasional throwback to various iterations across the years (not just the most recognizable ones) but in ways that don't always accurately reflect how some characters are "supposed to" look, or we get brand consistency with a stable and recognizable identity but which is locked into a singular definite mindset that very rarely breaks into totally new things and even more rarely homages the less recognizable iterations of the past, but the things it does give us do mostly strive to resemble how the characters are "supposed to" look.

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah and Warden is also a **** nugget who think Beast Wars isn't relevant to G1.

Beast Wars ISN'T relevant to G1. If there was no Beast Wars, G1 would still be the same. It's the other way around. G1 is relevant to Beast Wars. It's things from G1 such as the Ark and Megatron on the Golden Disk and the arrival of a reformatted Ravage that are a part of Beast Wars. Do you see anything from Beast Wars that was in G1 which foreshadowed the coming of that continuity?

I love Beast Wars, it's my favorite series. But to say that it has any significant relevance to G1 is just not true. On the flip side, if Beast Wars never included anything from G1 like they did, it still would have been a damn good series. Sometimes I wonder if the Ark and its occupants were never included, what direction the story would have gone and how it would have ended up.

And while I like all the different styles of figures we have gotten since 2006, I personally much prefer Warden's work over Archer's. But that's just my opinion based on personal taste, of course a lot of people will disagree and that's fine.

[Sabrblade]

Sometimes I wonder if the Ark and its occupants were never included, what direction the story would have gone and how it would have ended up.

Probably more in the direction of fleshing out the Vok.

[Rodimus Prime]

even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

And when the Bee movie was released, after seeing it the majority of the fandom (including a lot of people from these boards, myself excluded) damn near creamed their undies because of it. Why? Because FINALLY there were G1 designs in the movie! Like it or not, G1 is the major driving force of the Transformers brand. In every single main stream iteration and continuity, there are at least influences of G1, if not outright uses of G1 likenesses. From character names to designs and story lines, most of what appears in a series on screen or on toy shelves has a connection to G1 somehow. Not everything, but most things.

I understand that it's good to have parts of the brand that have NOTHING to do with G1. But those parts by themselves would never survive. Hasbro knows this, which is why they keep going back to G1 when the sales get low or the creative going gets rough. Because its a proven commodity, to both older fans and newer ones alike. It's just appealing, plain and simple. It's the proverbial golden goose. They would be insane to kill it, or even neglect it for a while. It would be simply bad business on their part. And remember, in the end, Hasbro is a company that sells toys to kids. And they will sell what the majority buy.