Wolfman Jake wrote:Zelda, I don't understand at all why you think the Combiner Wars Optimus Prime/Motormaster mold prevents knee bend in gestalt mode. I just pulled my Menasor off the shelf and checked. The knees bend 90 degrees backwards without issue. Why you would think such would have anything to do with being designed as Optimus Prime confuses me too.
Also, again, I want to point out to you that the Siege figures aren't "shrinking." The size of Deluxe and Voyager figures have been consistent for many years now. Contemporary Generations figures aren't meant to necessarily match the Classics, Universe 2.0, and early Generations figures in stature or mass. They're certainly not meant to match the completely different movie figure designs or anything from Armada, Energon, or Cybertron. I don't know how you cultivated your expectations, but you clearly set yourself up for disappointment.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.
Cyberpath wrote:I'm actually glad that the Voyagers are smaller now, even if it's just by a head. Works better with what I have.
Besides that, overall I think they're really good with robot scale this round.
I want these toys already!
Emerje wrote: Optimus is always going to be a big seller, but it's more about choosing a truck character and then trying to figure out how to work Optimus into it than the other way around.
Emerje
william-james88 wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit
But Universe Sideswipe is out of scale so why would he be considered for a staple of scale? He is obscenely tall and looks terrible next to Classics Prime.
william-james88 wrote:He is also much bigger than Unicron trilogy deluxes.
william-james88 wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.
It was never designed as a stand alone Optimus, Warden confirmed that the entire main line fitting within only a few combiner molds was the intent from the start. Its how he got the greenlight to make so many characters.
So all along, from the begining that mold was made with Motormaster in mind.
william-james88 wrote:Cyberpath wrote:I'm actually glad that the Voyagers are smaller now, even if it's just by a head. Works better with what I have.
Besides that, overall I think they're really good with robot scale this round.
I want these toys already!
I have always used Classics OP as my main Prime so this new toy being the same height means nothing changes for me in terms of scale. Combiner Wars Optimus Prime never worked for me and thus i never got him. And thats the general concensus. And its because there was so little interest in him that he was never repacked and thus now worth a fortune (along with many RID toys that fans also ignored). But that just means that most collections across the globe do not have CW Optimus as the toy to base the scale out of. 15 years later, Classics OP is still the benchmark for scale.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Seems to me that rather than the Universe Sideswipe mold being grossly oversize, the Classics Optimus mold is grossly undersize. That's why I prefer CW Optimus and was glad that he came along - I've long thought that Classics Optimus was too small.
Burn wrote:Agamemnon wrote:Let's get back to talking about Burn's mammoth snout flopping...
Well I am Australian. It's kinda what we're known for.
william-james88 wrote:ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Seems to me that rather than the Universe Sideswipe mold being grossly oversize, the Classics Optimus mold is grossly undersize. That's why I prefer CW Optimus and was glad that he came along - I've long thought that Classics Optimus was too small.
But Classics Optimus came first, so why are we establishing scale based on something that came after?
william-james88 wrote:Also, as you can see in your pics, that scale is way off from the scale they should be. WFC is correcting lots of scale problems we had.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:"The size of Deluxe and Voyager figures have been consistent for many years now" - that's my bloody point! They have consistently hovered in the 1/32 scale neighborhood (and those who aren't are in robot mode scale with those who are)! Which has meant that contemporary stuff like Prime Wars Deluxes are, in fact, comparable in stature and altmode size with older Generations and Universe stuff - I know, I've checked. So why was it so unreasonable for me to expect Siege stuff to be the same size as Prime Wars stuff when as you say we've had consistency for years?
No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit (or Titans Return Hot Rod's for that matter)? They're shrinking in altmode too, with Optimus and the Autobot Cars looking to be more in the 1/45 scale range.
As for going with AEC/movie stuff.. I know that obviously CHUG stuff contemporary or otherwise isn't designed to do that per se, but the whole "hovering around 1/32 scale" thing has meant that plenty of figures essentially do anyway.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:As for why I think the CW Optimus/Motormaster mold prevents knee bend in gestalt mode unless you have the legs facing tires-side forward? I found out FROM EXPERIENCE that it does so. With the legs facing the intended way, several limbs will bump against the feet and have to be forced past to bend further. The Breakdown mold doesn't have any issues, but the Dead End/Streetwise mold does, especially the Streetwise version. Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.
That would be fine and good, but if you do, please move this conversation to the Combiner Wars thread as not to diverge to far from the topic of this thread. Thanks!Wolfman Jake wrote: Why don't you take some pictures of what you think the problem is?
Burn wrote:Agamemnon wrote:Let's get back to talking about Burn's mammoth snout flopping...
Well I am Australian. It's kinda what we're known for.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Wolfman Jake, you misunderstand me. I was going] by TR Hot Rod's head height since he's about average for TR head height and he was handy:
This is how their head heights compare. Hot Rod is a little shorter...
...but it's nothing compared to this.
The Combiner Wars Breakdown mold is also shorter than the Universe Sideswipe mold, but definitely not by as much as the Siege Sideswipe mold. Yes, there's hollows involved but I don't find them that big a detractor.
I still don't think it was all that unreasonable to expect TR or at least CW/POTP heights...
The Siege stuff still seems small even by the T30 standard. Like, Sideswipe is at best as tall as T30 Arcee (one of the smaller T30 Deluxes, looking at Skids, Armada Starscream, etc). Optimus appears to be the same height as Classics Optimus, who is shorter than T30 Springer and Blitzwing (who are themselves shorter than CW Optimus and fellow T30 Voyager, Brainstorm).
Wolfman Jake wrote:You can't just cherry pick these oddly big toys and use them as a benchmark to claim Siege is significantly scaled down from what we've had for the past 5 years.
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Wolfman Jake, you misunderstand me. I was going] by TR Hot Rod's head height since he's about average for TR head height and he was handy
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