Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:08 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:What size should the insecticons be? I didn't think they were the height of Prowl and the like. Though I think Hasbro's best bet with them is to release as a gift set


According to the official scale guides they should be roughly half of Ironhide's size. So Legends is tall enough.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:30 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:What size should the insecticons be? I didn't think they were the height of Prowl and the like. Though I think Hasbro's best bet with them is to release as a gift set


According to the official scale guides they should be roughly half of Ironhide's size. So Legends is tall enough.

Meaning we already have them, and we should concentrate on other characters.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby blackeyedprime » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:48 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:What size should the insecticons be? I didn't think they were the height of Prowl and the like. Though I think Hasbro's best bet with them is to release as a gift set


According to the official scale guides they should be roughly half of Ironhide's size. So Legends is tall enough.

Meaning we already have them, and we should concentrate on other characters.


unless they do them leader class size and as working drones...
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I doubt they would do them individually at leader Class. The legends ones are excellent so no point reinventing the wheel there. The deluxe ones are more open to interpretation as they never appeared on the cartoon.

This is why having kickback on that last poll was interesting :-?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:06 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
New characters definitely. I mean we got Chop Shop from Shrapnel near the end of CW some four years ago....Where are the rest of the DELUXE Insecticons? (as in what they were originally called, not to be confused with the size class of the same name).

Also Considering the fact that 3 of those 4 poll entries have been released as Legends Class (or comparable) recently. I have a feeling the new Runamuck will herald in the return of this size class for the 2020 line as well (as would Needlenose have been if he won) I mean, was there any indication as to the size class of the entries in this poll? I assumed Legends based on the entries.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Primal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:31 pm

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Primal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:11 pm

Motto: "Anything worth doing is worth suffering for."
Weapon: Flamethrower Cannons
william-james88 wrote:Meaning we already have them, and we should concentrate on other characters.
ZeroWolf wrote:This is why having kickback Shrapnel on that last poll was interesting :-?

Well, given the inclusion of Shrapnel on the fan poll, Hasbro clearly disagrees that the Insecticons are taken care of, and is thinking of making a new set of them.

Besides, there are multiple reasons to justify new Insecticons:
Articulation: The level of articulation we're getting on this WFC figures gives them around twice as many points of articulation as a Legends figure (using Ironhide vs Chop Shop as my comparison, I could be wrong depending on the figures), so that would be a welcome improvement.
Popularity: Clearly Hasbro is trying to seed popular/recognizable characters into WFC retail along with the Cogs and the Apefaces and such, and the Insecticons are some of the only G1 Cons left that we didn't get in Siege who are recognizable to a casual-ish audience.
Accessories: Because of the Legends price point, none of the Insecticons got any accessories before, save the T30 release of Shrapnel. Making them at around Refraktor's size would allow for Bombshell, for example, to have his beetle-nose gun, his actual handheld weapon, and possibly if we're lucky, a blast effect compatible cerebro-shell (although they'd probably save that for an exclusive).
The Size Arguement: While the cartoon size chart puts them at Legends size (which I personally don't think should be right, but that's not the point), one also has to remember that the Insecticons were canonically shown to get bigger the more energy they were able to obtain/consume. That means built-in justification for selling bigger figures of them regardless of that scale, just say they're powered up to be more threatening, or that they had more easy access to Energon while on Cybertron on the winning side of the conflict.
Remolds: Depending on the remolding they're willing to do, they could easily get both an Insecticon and a Deluxe Insecticon each from each of the molds, as multiple site users have argued before.

o.supreme wrote:Also Considering the fact that 3 of those 4 poll entries have been released as Legends Class (or comparable) recently. I have a feeling the new Runamuck will herald in the return of this size class for the 2020 line as well (as would Needlenose have been if he won) I mean, was there any indication as to the size class of the entries in this poll? I assumed Legends based on the entries.

I still don't buy into this theory of yours, because why would they make new molds of the same characters in the same size class that we just got in Prime Wars (or as a Takara exclusive, in Runamuck's case)? They confirmed at SDCC that they are new molds, because Warden mentioned accounting for Runamuck having all his wheels end up on his feet. Plus, Quake and Spinister are already Deluxes, having Needlenose be as size class smaller than his partners would make no sense, and Needlenose was also in the running to get a figure IN SIEGE from that poll, so they should already have a Deluxe-sized mold for him in the works that would have been released had he won his second poll because Siege has no Legends class.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Wolfman Jake » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:56 pm

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It would still be nice to get the Legends Insecticons done as a giftset with a unifying color scheme and maybe a bit of retooling to add Titan Master compatibility into Shrapnel and Bombshell. Generations Selects, perhaps?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Sentinel_Primal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:17 pm

Weapon: Thermal Sword
I'll be honest, Leader class Insecticons would genuinely interest me :lol: Although, something I'd like to see revisited was the concept of RiD Chop Shop where he was almost a swarm that combined to form his robot mode. But we definitely need the Deluxe Insecticons at some point. Actually, I feel like we need more toy only characters to be revisited, rather than just cartoon characters. Mostly because so many late 80s-early 90s characters never got anything outside comics and haven't been revisited too often outside of cons or the occassional repaint
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby blackeyedprime » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:18 pm

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Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
Multiple reasons against them being deluxes as well though besides already having decent representations of them and siege would open them to having hollowness of arms or legs, alts not resembling an earth or cybertronian thing, scale being wrong.
I think they will turn up in siege though and just saves me from buying them and no doubt diaclone colours for selects.


Old leader class size would fit :P but they would definitely not be radio controlled :( sighs, back when toys could be inventive rather than rehashes. Just like reflector being out of scale its all a matter of which toons/scenes they were in. Deluzes are very possible for them.

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:20 pm

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Weapon: Battle Blades
Thing is you're arguing articulation, but that's arguing legends versus Deluxe which isn't very fair considering price points. You may not agree with the scale but hasbro seems to be sticking with it, so I don't think they'll be Deluxes without major accessories to allow a legend sized bot mode. Personally I'd prefer a boxset via selects freeing up retail wave space for more deserving characters.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Primal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:04 pm

Motto: "Anything worth doing is worth suffering for."
Weapon: Flamethrower Cannons
ZeroWolf wrote:Thing is you're arguing articulation, but that's arguing legends versus Deluxe which isn't very fair considering price points. You may not agree with the scale but hasbro seems to be sticking with it, so I don't think they'll be Deluxes without major accessories to allow a legend sized bot mode. Personally I'd prefer a boxset via selects freeing up retail wave space for more deserving characters.

I think you missed my points a bit on those two: I was arguing current articulation is better than articulation when the Insecticons last came out (I just got SS KSI Boss in the mail today, a repaint of a figure from around the same time, and he has exactly as much articulation as Chop Shop with the exception of one transformation joint) and they deserve an upgrade in that regard, and I was pointing out that Insecticons can really be released at any scale they want and it would still be justified because they canonically change size.

If you'd prefer a boxset of the Prime Wars bugs, more power to you, I'm not trying to say you're wrong for wanting that, but I think that's kinda unlikely at this point.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:19 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
The size thing hasbro probably wouldn't use as they'd just as much look at that scale guide, then that's it. Either way, I'd rather new characters that haven't seen an update in years, like the turbomasters or the predators. Although Sky Quake did see an update of sorts in the Prime show
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:43 pm

Motto: "There are no impossibilities in the multiverse, just small minds unable to comprehend the possibilities"
Weapon: Star Saber Sword
I'm hoping we stay away from some bugs for a bit, I more want to finish out the targetmasters, powermasters, and late G1/G2 guys and get Beast Wars before we dive back into the insecticons
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:53 pm

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I think this makes a pretty good Target exclusive team.

I also have to say, having Redwing in hand, I feel bad for badmouthing this mold so much. It's actually really emjoyable and fun. The tetrajet itself feels really solid in hand

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:59 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Nemesis Primal wrote:Articulation: The level of articulation we're getting on this WFC figures gives them around twice as many points of articulation as a Legends figure (using Ironhide vs Chop Shop as my comparison, I could be wrong depending on the figures), so that would be a welcome improvement.


Articulation shouldn't be measured in just points, but in range as well. The type of joint should also be considered. Siege has marked a switch from ball joints to more robust universal joints with multiple points of movements for Deluxe Class (with the former more ideal for smaller figures), so while the range is the same, the upscaling would make them sturdier in the long run.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Popularity: Clearly Hasbro is trying to seed popular/recognizable characters into WFC retail along with the Cogs and the Apefaces and such, and the Insecticons are some of the only G1 Cons left that we didn't get in Siege who are recognizable to a casual-ish audience.


Don't forget that Hasbro sometimes splits up members of certain groups across multiple lines. The Decepticon Targetmasters and the Seekers are more exception than rule. We may get one in the 2nd part, but the rest we'll have to wait on.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Accessories: Because of the Legends price point, none of the Insecticons got any accessories before, save the T30 release of Shrapnel. Making them at around Refraktor's size would allow for Bombshell, for example, to have his beetle-nose gun, his actual handheld weapon, and possibly if we're lucky, a blast effect compatible cerebro-shell (although they'd probably save that for an exclusive).


Oooo, me likes that idea! I wonder how they'd pull off Shrapnel's lightning attack though.

Nemesis Primal wrote:The Size Arguement: While the cartoon size chart puts them at Legends size (which I personally don't think should be right, but that's not the point), one also has to remember that the Insecticons were canonically shown to get bigger the more energy they were able to obtain/consume. That means built-in justification for selling bigger figures of them regardless of that scale, just say they're powered up to be more threatening, or that they had more easy access to Energon while on Cybertron on the winning side of the conflict.


Not to mention we've had a Deluxe-sized Insecticon before:
Image
Transformers Fall of Cybertron Kickback Gallery



Nemesis Primal wrote:Remolds: Depending on the remolding they're willing to do, they could easily get both an Insecticon and a Deluxe Insecticon each from each of the molds, as multiple site users have argued before.


Poor Vemon doesn't have a smaller counterpart, unless one counts BW Cicadacon/BWII DJ. I wonder which would have gotten released if they were in the plans: the Deluxes, of the standards... :-?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby emlit » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:16 pm

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I’m totally down with deluxe Insecticons with WFC articulation.

Well, if the bugs are too polarizing, let’s see Cybertronian alt modes of the Battlechargers.

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:53 pm

some pretty cool stuff

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:01 pm

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emlit wrote:Stuff

Hey new guy, check the signature guidelines please, you're a little on the large side.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Stargrave » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:08 pm

Motto: "It’s all the in the reflexes"
Weapon: Glass Gas Gun
william-james88 wrote:some pretty cool stuff

:BOOM:
That’s awesome! I love seeing that versatility between the lines!
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Wolfman Jake » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:31 pm

Motto: ""A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."
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Weapon: Retractable Mecha-Fangs
blackeyedprime wrote:Just like reflector being out of scale its all a matter of which toons/scenes they were in.


Deluxe Class is actually the correct scale for Reflector, according to the original Sunbow scale guides and character artwork. He's consistently shown to be larger than any of the Autobot minicars, Soundwave's minions, and even the Insecticons. They're just about head to head with the standard Autobot cars, a la Sideswipe and Prowl, but still shorter than the "Voyager" sized Decepticons like Soundwave himself, Starscream and co., Shockwave, and, of course, Megatron.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:27 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I never even thought of mixing the Cyberverse armours up like that! 5mm holes for the win!

Wonder how the Ark armour on prime connects...
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby blackeyedprime » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:52 am

Motto: "Me Grimlock, you slag."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
Wolfman Jake wrote:
blackeyedprime wrote:Just like reflector being out of scale its all a matter of which toons/scenes they were in.


Deluxe Class is actually the correct scale for Reflector, according to the original Sunbow scale guides and character artwork. He's consistently shown to be larger than any of the Autobot minicars, Soundwave's minions, and even the Insecticons. They're just about head to head with the standard Autobot cars, a la Sideswipe and Prowl, but still shorter than the "Voyager" sized Decepticons like Soundwave himself, Starscream and co., Shockwave, and, of course, Megatron.


Nope, but the deluxe pretty much fits in scale with MP starscream. Otherwise he aint being used to test out a spacebridge by a voyager sized figure (totally of his own free will). most pictures have his head just above starscreams waist.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:10 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
The scale guide is the primary resource being used here and is pretty much the be all and end all as far as scale is concerned. So scenes like this are the outlier.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby blackeyedprime » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:15 am

Motto: "Me Grimlock, you slag."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
ZeroWolf wrote:The scale guide is the primary resource being used here and is pretty much the be all and end all as far as scale is concerned. So scenes like this are the outlier.


As long as Siege Rumble comes with a box to stand on, out of camera shot, for cartoon accuracy it's all good :) the G1 Tom Cruise.
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