The Energon Pub

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Emerje wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Here's an drawing posted by a fan showing how it might work from the Hot Rod mold, just to give an idea.

That seems like it would require an awful lot of retooling to work, more so than most exclusives get. Sure, Netflix Soundwave got a lot of retooling, but can you really compare the popularity of Soundwave (a mold that was already used twice prior) and Override? Then there's Fangry, but again they used that mold so many times they probably already had all the parts tooled just waiting to be used. Can't imagine they planned to reuse Hot Rod as Override from the start.

Emerje

I mean, they planned for Siege Magnus and Hound to be GUOP and Hot Shot from the start, Hot Rod doesn't exactly have another pre-existing retool, and Netflix Soundwave had not only the retooling to give himself a new alt mode but also retooled cassettes (and this line is supposed to be the replacement for the Netflix line), so I could see it.

GUOP was a retail figure so extensive retooling wasn't a surprise. Hot Shot was just a simple head swap which is the norm for exclusives. Soundwave figures will always sell and a tape player version was in high demand so heavy retooling was a no brainer. Override, on the other hand, is a little remembered character with a not particularly good figure, I'd be surprised if they do anything more than give her a new head and call it good.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Also I linked to this image back in the early days of this thread, and I still stand by my stance that I would be happy with this if it's what we get.

As would I, I'm just not as optimistic.

Emerje

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it's going to be voyager-sized then Hot Rod wouldn't work anyway, but Kingdom Rodimus might.

This is it.

I'm now convinced that the transformation scheme of Hot Rod can't be retooled to make Override's car shape. The bits that would need to change are just too integral to the transformation scheme of the figure.

Rodimus, however, can be changed by replacing the shoulders and chest, simultaneously creating a distinctive car and bot mode silhouette.

This makes the most sense to me now - an easily retool of a voyager-sized car

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:Since we’re getting Megalo Convoy (Metroplex) and Nitro Convoy (Override), I wouldn’t be surprised if we got the other Galaxy Force planet leaders too. Maybe Flame Convoy (Scourge) could be a retool of Transmetal 2 Megatron, but how could Hasbro and Takara do Life Convoy (Evac)?

I feel like Scourge may possibly already be accounted for in ROTB Scourge since, while he turns into a truck, his altmode is said to look like a cross between those of Cybertron Scourge and Prime Predaking, with the addition of smokestacks.

A dragon that turns into a semi truck. Fun idea, probably works on screen even. I doubt it'll be a good toy.

Oh crud. I made a typo. I meant to type "robot mode", not "altmode". It's fixed now in the original post.

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it's going to be voyager-sized then Hot Rod wouldn't work anyway, but Kingdom Rodimus might. Unless they do with override what they did with Hot Rod and pack a deluxe figure into a voyager box with a bunch of extra crap.

No one said voyager sized, which isnt really a thing anymore, it's all about price points. And all that confirmed here is the voyager price point. Also, it isn't the extra crap which gave Hot Rod his pricepoint, it was his parts count (complexity). The extra crap is just Hasbro giving you a visual cue to maybe help you come to terms with the price, even if it's not the biggest contributing factor.

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it's going to be voyager-sized then Hot Rod wouldn't work anyway, but Kingdom Rodimus might. Unless they do with override what they did with Hot Rod and pack a deluxe figure into a voyager box with a bunch of extra crap.

No one said voyager sized, which isnt really a thing anymore, it's all about price points. And all that confirmed here is the voyager price point. Also, it isn't the extra crap which gave Hot Rod his pricepoint, it was his parts count (complexity). The extra crap is just Hasbro giving you a visual cue to maybe help you come to terms with the price, even if it's not the biggest contributing factor.

The listing literally said "voyager." Until Hasbro comes out and says otherwise, that will continue to mean the next size above deluxe as it has been for over a decade now. You can use SS86 Hot Rod as your example, but so far he's the exception to the rule. Let's see them do it a few more times before it should be accepted as the norm. And I understand it's not about the size of the actual figure but the resources that said figure required, whether material or engineering. But when a listing says "voyager" I think "size between deluxe and leader." And we don't need to have a debate on it, because it won't change my mind. Just accept that I see it differently than you, and let's move on please.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it's going to be voyager-sized then Hot Rod wouldn't work anyway, but Kingdom Rodimus might. Unless they do with override what they did with Hot Rod and pack a deluxe figure into a voyager box with a bunch of extra crap.

No one said voyager sized, which isnt really a thing anymore, it's all about price points. And all that confirmed here is the voyager price point. Also, it isn't the extra crap which gave Hot Rod his pricepoint, it was his parts count (complexity). The extra crap is just Hasbro giving you a visual cue to maybe help you come to terms with the price, even if it's not the biggest contributing factor.

The listing literally said "voyager." Until Hasbro comes out and says otherwise, that will continue to mean the next size above deluxe as it has been for over a decade now. You can use SS86 Hot Rod as your example, but so far he's the exception to the rule. Let's see them do it a few more times before it should be accepted as the norm. And I understand it's not about the size of the actual figure but the resources that said figure required, whether material or engineering. But when a listing says "voyager" I think "size between deluxe and leader." And we don't need to have a debate on it, because it won't change my mind. Just accept that I see it differently than you, and let's move on please.

What does leader class mean to you then?

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it's going to be voyager-sized then Hot Rod wouldn't work anyway, but Kingdom Rodimus might. Unless they do with override what they did with Hot Rod and pack a deluxe figure into a voyager box with a bunch of extra crap.

No one said voyager sized, which isnt really a thing anymore, it's all about price points. And all that confirmed here is the voyager price point. Also, it isn't the extra crap which gave Hot Rod his pricepoint, it was his parts count (complexity). The extra crap is just Hasbro giving you a visual cue to maybe help you come to terms with the price, even if it's not the biggest contributing factor.

The listing literally said "voyager." Until Hasbro comes out and says otherwise, that will continue to mean the next size above deluxe as it has been for over a decade now. You can use SS86 Hot Rod as your example, but so far he's the exception to the rule. Let's see them do it a few more times before it should be accepted as the norm. And I understand it's not about the size of the actual figure but the resources that said figure required, whether material or engineering. But when a listing says "voyager" I think "size between deluxe and leader." And we don't need to have a debate on it, because it won't change my mind. Just accept that I see it differently than you, and let's move on please.

What does leader class mean to you then?

Forget leader and go straight to Commander to explain Rodimus. There is your prime (pun intended) example of complexity versus size within the same pricepoint when you compare him to Jetfire or Sky Lynx.

I would also like to move on and not have the size class argument anymore. But rather than debate what sizes and classes match, we should acknowledge that doesn't hold in the modern era. The class is for retailers, indicating the price point and box size, not detailed requirements for the included contents.

I think we need a whole new taxonomy for post-WfC deluxe, voyager, and leader "sizes," but the old one has so much power. And of course people still use legion, legends, and core interchangeably even though that's at least two different size factors.

Eh, I'm just arguing with myself now, this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future, and I should get used to it. Maybe I'll just come up with my own arbitrary labels, even if no one will understand what I'm talking about. I have the existing one as: micromaster/legion, core/legends, short deluxe, medium deluxe, tall deluxe, deluxe-sized voyager, true voyager, voyager-sized leader, old leader, commander, titan, divorce class. Ooh, maybe a numbering system? Where's my SS86 #11, Hasbro?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:If it's going to be voyager-sized then Hot Rod wouldn't work anyway, but Kingdom Rodimus might. Unless they do with override what they did with Hot Rod and pack a deluxe figure into a voyager box with a bunch of extra crap.

No one said voyager sized, which isnt really a thing anymore, it's all about price points. And all that confirmed here is the voyager price point. Also, it isn't the extra crap which gave Hot Rod his pricepoint, it was his parts count (complexity). The extra crap is just Hasbro giving you a visual cue to maybe help you come to terms with the price, even if it's not the biggest contributing factor.

The listing literally said "voyager." Until Hasbro comes out and says otherwise, that will continue to mean the next size above deluxe as it has been for over a decade now. You can use SS86 Hot Rod as your example, but so far he's the exception to the rule. Let's see them do it a few more times before it should be accepted as the norm. And I understand it's not about the size of the actual figure but the resources that said figure required, whether material or engineering. But when a listing says "voyager" I think "size between deluxe and leader." And we don't need to have a debate on it, because it won't change my mind. Just accept that I see it differently than you, and let's move on please.

Voyager is a price point not a size. They're usually a general size, yes, but they don't necessarily have to be

It all goes back to Beast Machines Megatron being the height of a Deluxe sold as a Mega class due to the mass of his wings/cloak.

Guys, let's leave Rodimus Prime be. Paradigm shifts aren't easy and he won't change his mind until he sees a deluxe sized Override in voyager packaging (if that happens). The facts will speak for themselves then.

I mean look at the reactions to the ROTB toys online. Even though we've known for years that the movie toylines are now split with the toys for older collectors and toys for younger collectors in seperate lines, and we've seen the gimmick filled listings for the ROTB toyline, people still have a hard time understanding the shift that the movie mainline steers younger than before. All I mean to say is things take time.

Oh and just to add this fact into the mix, override is a "deluxe" sized bot in the show, in case anyone is curious as to what the correct scale would be.

Maybe my earlier post was a bit harsh, and certainly wasn't directed at anyone specific. Apologies. I was exhausted from a long day of work and a bit aggravated by other things.

My main sticking point with the size thing is that I would like a concise if not constant reference point when it comes to size classes. When a figure is labeled "voyager" I don't want to play a guessing game of whether it's a small figure with a lot of accessories or a larger and simpler figure. That's all. Same with leaders.

With the WFC line I was happy that Hasbro tried to keep the scale for at least the similar characters such as Optimus and Megatron, but annoyed that they sold Prime and Shockwave as leaders due to extras. Yes, this is the same old argument and no need to drag it out. The labeling is just another aspect of it.

I'm very happy with the figures we've gotten on the last 6 years or so, but no line is perfect, and my annoyance is directed at Hasbro mainly because they're not consistent enough. But that's a result of trying to maximize options for consumers in order to make the most profit. It's just how business is.

It'd be nice if Transformers didn't have to conform to price points to begin with. They're more fluid with their pricing in other lines like G.I.Joe or Marvel Legends. When they feel like a figure or vehicles needs a little more they just slap a unique price on it and retailers seem perfectly fine with that. For some reason they feel like Transformers have to conform to specific prices with no wiggle room for anything. I know ER Cliffjumper is way more complex than a Legends/Core/whatever, but would he be worth the price of a Deluxe if he didn't come with with a complex six part paint coated bazooka with a metal pin in it? Personally I don't think so, he'd be more like a $15 figure. Same with Hot Rod, without all of the accessories he's more like a $26 figure, not a Voyager.

As for price point names, I hate most of them. They don't mean anything to anyone outside of the fanbase. "Voyager" only made sense during the Cybertron line when the story was about traveling across planets (WFC sort of does that too, but not in any one segment), it should have been dropped after. "Leader" and "Commander" have never made sense since most of the characters in those price points aren't either of those things. "Titan" should have been renamed with Devastator, it would be like having a price point called "Headmaster" but only a couple figures have removable heads.

Beast Wars did it best (and to a lesser degree Cyberverse), each price point sounds a little more impressive than the last. Something like this: Basic > Deluxe > Mega (Voyager) > Ultra (Leader) > Supreme (Commander) > Ultimate (Titan). "Leader Astrotrain" and "Commander Sky Lynx" don't sound nearly as cool and enticing as "Ultra Astrotrain" and "Supreme Sky Lynx" to me.

Emerje

I agree that the size classes should be abolished entirely. The toys would be free of needless accessories or being hollowed out just to conform to a class.

But then people will quite anal about why some bots are cheap while others are expensive yet the boxes are of the same sizes.

Emerje wrote:Beast Wars did it best (and to a lesser degree Cyberverse), each price point sounds a little more impressive than the last. Something like this: Basic > Deluxe > Mega (Voyager) > Ultra (Leader) > Supreme (Commander) > Ultimate (Titan). "Leader Astrotrain" and "Commander Sky Lynx" don't sound nearly as cool and enticing as "Ultra Astrotrain" and "Supreme Sky Lynx" to me.

Emerje

You left out the one between Ultra and Supreme that Optimal Optimus and Primal Prime (and later RiD'01 Optimus, Ultra Magnus, and Scourge) were sold as: Super.

Sabrblade wrote:

Emerje wrote:Beast Wars did it best (and to a lesser degree Cyberverse), each price point sounds a little more impressive than the last. Something like this: Basic > Deluxe > Mega (Voyager) > Ultra (Leader) > Supreme (Commander) > Ultimate (Titan). "Leader Astrotrain" and "Commander Sky Lynx" don't sound nearly as cool and enticing as "Ultra Astrotrain" and "Supreme Sky Lynx" to me.

Emerje

You left out the one between Ultra and Supreme that Optimal Optimus and Primal Prime (and later RiD'01 Optimus, Ultra Magnus, and Scourge) were sold as: Super.

I was really just sticking with Beast Wars classes and equating them to modern one plus reusing some others to fill in the larger classes. Problem with Super was that Hasbro would then use it for the Deluxe class in Armada (Mini-Con, Super-Con, Max-Con, Giga-Con). Of course they also had Super Base in the same line just to really make things confusing...

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Emerje wrote:Beast Wars did it best (and to a lesser degree Cyberverse), each price point sounds a little more impressive than the last. Something like this: Basic > Deluxe > Mega (Voyager) > Ultra (Leader) > Supreme (Commander) > Ultimate (Titan). "Leader Astrotrain" and "Commander Sky Lynx" don't sound nearly as cool and enticing as "Ultra Astrotrain" and "Supreme Sky Lynx" to me.

Emerje

You left out the one between Ultra and Supreme that Optimal Optimus and Primal Prime (and later RiD'01 Optimus, Ultra Magnus, and Scourge) were sold as: Super.

I was really just sticking with Beast Wars classes and equating them to modern one plus reusing some others to fill in the larger classes. Problem with Super was that Hasbro would then use it for the Deluxe class in Armada (Mini-Con, Super-Con, Max-Con, Giga-Con). Of course they also had Super Base in the same line just to really make things confusing...

Emerje

I'd probably equate the BW/BM/RiD'01 Super class to Commander class since the Supremes were even more massive than the likes of Jetfire, Sky Lynx, Rodimus, and even the CW Combiners (plus, Kingdom Rodimus is very reminiscent of RID'01 Scourge being a smaller but well-engineered figure with a very complex trailer).

Though, SS Devastator could be viewed as a modern-day equivalent to the Supremes, in terms of mass and height (if his giftset has a class name).

I suppose, though I don't really like the sound of "super" in Transformers since it's so tied to superheroes these days. "Super Optimus Prime" just makes me think of Optimus in a cape and tights now.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:I suppose, though I don't really like the sound of "super" in Transformers since it's so tied to superheroes these days. "Super Optimus Prime" just makes me think of Optimus in a cape and tights now.

Emerje

Not all superheroes wear tights and capes.

Some just wear rings:





Though, just throw the word class in there. "Super class" Such-and-such, like "Deluxe class" Such-and-such.

More EAN numbers have been found for Velocitron figures:

.Tra Gen legacy velocitron deluxe Road Rocket
EAN: 5010994115456
.Tra Gen legacy velocitron deluxe Burnout
EAN: 5010994115449
.Tra Gen legacy velocitron deluxe Clampdown
EAN: 5010994115432
.Tra Gen legacy velocitron deluxe Cosmos
EAN: 5010994115425
.Tra Gen legacy velocitron deluxe Blurr
EAN: 5010994115418

I can't wait to see what Cosmos and Blurr look like, I do hope Blurr is the Armada Blurr retooled from Legacy Pointbalnk that's been rumoured, and not just a variation of G1 Blurr from the Studio Series mould like I suspect it might be.

Yeah I hope it's not yet another G1 Blurr. Otherwise none if these really interest me besides Cosmos. More for everyone else.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah I hope it's not yet another G1 Blurr. Otherwise none if these really interest me besides Cosmos. More for everyone else.

Add Clampdown for me, but yeah.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah I hope it's not yet another G1 Blurr. Otherwise none if these really interest me besides Cosmos. More for everyone else.

I believe that Blurr is referring to this guy:

Transformers Cybertron Blurr Gallery


Transformers Cybertron Blurr Gallery

As he was a “Velocitanian”.

Overcracker wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yeah I hope it's not yet another G1 Blurr. Otherwise none if these really interest me besides Cosmos. More for everyone else.

I believe that Blurr is referring to this guy:

Transformers Cybertron Blurr Gallery


Transformers Cybertron Blurr Gallery

As he was a “Velocitanian”.

So the rumor has been specifically Armada Blurr (NOT the Cybertron Blurr shown above) since this line was first rumored, but judging by what is occurring in the TFW thread these EAN numbers came from, right now there is (sadly) a non-zero chance of it being a Toy Colors G1 Blurr instead (even though I cannot tell what difference in deco that would make), since some of the leakers have clarified that none of them have seen the actual figure, but one of them has a single source that is claiming it's the G1 option with no one else confirming or denying it, while Hasbro Singapore is internally using a picture of Armada Blurr to represent the figure (which is why the rumor was given that it's Armada Blurr).

Also new from that thread:
-Cosmos is possibly not a 100% new mold and instead a retool of something that ISN'T Origins Bee and is described as a "turning a rectangle into a circle situation" (people are speculating Warpath), but the retool proposal is apparently 9 months old and could just be outdated
-In response to "Hasbro isn't stupid enough to make a new mold Cosmos a store exclusive", one of the leakers went on a tangent about figures that Hasbro stupidly isn't doing/haven't done that people wrote off as a joke until one of the other leakers backed it up, so there's that short list of figures I guess (that I assume would be more on-topic somewhere else, probably the TF You Want That Hasbro Won't Make thread)

Just link to JTPrime's post:
https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/ ... t-20078678